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VeryHonarbrah

A case of power creep - Mino

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Before mid 2019, the mino was one of the peak solo, close up brawling ships in the game. It perfectly exploited your own brawling skill to push in like a mad man in certain situations, while still retaining a smoke and very good dmg output for a more reserved playstyle when needed. However what is the point of this line now? The anti - dd role you could play with radar is trumped by the Venezia, the dps in the smoke is trumped by the Smolensk, with the overall dmg output being reduced due to the introduction of Russian bbs (you can only aim at super), and super cruisers (impossible to cit with the mino) . The AA, that was once the best at Tx, is now arguably 3rd or 4th best? But most importantly, the huge out-put of super cruisers + large cruisers like the henri / goliath mixed in, has really made this ship obsolete, and the trend of them being added is not slowing down. Not to mention ships with improved ap angles + incredible pen + incredible shell velocity + icebreaking noses (looking at the incoming russian cruiser line) have killed the aggressive play style. Even survivability of similar ships is arguably better, the smol is almost uncitable in certain situations, not to mention its gun range makes it more flexible, and the Worcester has better plating so no cruiser overmatch + also being rather hard to cit, and also having better range. Sure you can have good games in it, but the mino currently feels like your just cutting off your own legs when there are newer ships which do every single aspect better. I don't think there needs to be a general reduction in overmatch ships, or nerfs to everyone else (though a few to the more OP of competitors wouldn't hurt), but probably some buffs to the mino to simply make it more flexible, and comfortable to play, while being rewarding. 

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If you thing that minotaur has been powercreep than you have never played Khabarovsk. Sure minotaur could use some 22-23 mm of armor so it can not get overmatched by the likes of alaska,stalingrad,yoshino all those 305-310 mm armed cruisers.And maybe improved ap penetrations on angles could do it as well.But I still believe that khabarovsk and all the soviet DD that lead to it(except tashkent) need some serious buffs. Same goes for the german destroyers,italian mid tiers(no you naive venezia aint OP),zao maybe could use an HP buff and yueyang and henri 4 as well.

But will probably not happen,instead they will keep trowing more more premium,special bullcrap t10 [edited]copy-paste ships that are boring and unfun to play.(ohio,somers,salem,thunderer,smolensk,shityshima etc.)

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6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Again this crap? I guess your [edited]stats show that azuma overperforms so it must be OP right? Neustrashimy as well might be the most OP ship in the game with 58% win rate but strange when that ship name is mentioned everyone tends to laugh at it.Oh well, i should not be surprised cause this comes from a guy that spends more time on the forum than playing the game.

Also you know a ship is weak when even some WG staff,administrators have admit.

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9 minutes ago, Animalul2012 said:

Again this crap? I guess your [edited]stats show that azuma overperforms so it must be OP right? Neustrashimy as well might be the most OP ship in the game with 58% win rate but strange when that ship name is mentioned everyone tends to laugh at it.Oh well, i should not be surprised cause this comes from a guy that spends more time on the forum than playing the game.

Also you know a ship is weak when even some WG staff,administrators have admit.

Ssssh he is applying for a job at WG balancing department

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13 minutes ago, Animalul2012 said:

Again this crap? I guess your [edited]stats show that azuma overperforms so it must be OP right? Neustrashimy as well might be the most OP ship in the game with 58% win rate but strange when that ship name is mentioned everyone tends to laugh at it.Oh well, i should not be surprised cause this comes from a guy that spends more time on the forum than playing the game.

Also you know a ship is weak when even some WG staff,administrators have admit.

Premium ship stats cannot easily be compared with silver ships. And no, 58% winrate on a premium ship does not make a ship "OP"

And yes, I spend more time IN GAME than YOU.

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12 minutes ago, Animalul2012 said:

Again this crap? I guess your [edited]stats show that azuma overperforms so it must be OP right? Neustrashimy as well might be the most OP ship in the game with 58% win rate but strange when that ship name is mentioned everyone tends to laugh at it.Oh well, i should not be surprised cause this comes from a guy that spends more time on the forum than playing the game.

Also you know a ship is weak when even some WG staff,administrators have admit.

Unfortunately, Saint Spreadsheet is a thing and those three blokes still playing Khabarovsk make good enough stats to not warrant any buffs for Khaba, as she is top or very close to the top in damage department, while having balanced 49% WR.

 

n0KRuCr.jpg

 

Also

Przechwytywanie.png

 

Who kept his tier 6 Cleveland :cap_hmm:

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45 minutes ago, VeryHonarbrah said:

The anti - dd role you could play with radar is trumped by the Venezia

 

That sounds a bit far fetched, since Venezia doesnt have Radar. Venezia is good against DDs, if someone spots the DD for it. And no, proxyspotting DDs because they are potatoes is no counter.

 

46 minutes ago, VeryHonarbrah said:

The AA, that was once the best at Tx, is now arguably 3rd or 4th best?

 

Thats true, and it doesnt even matter if its 2nd best ot 10th best - its garbage. The longrange aura is so weak, you need a long time to even kill a stupid fighter which will spot you in return.

 

Neptune needs a buff even more than Minotaur. I think, plating should get atleast buffed to 19mm starting with Edinburgh (and while we are at it, might buff Fiji plating to 16mm). Why do they have worse armor than DDs...lol. Atleast prevents overmatch from Henri and Goliath, which already would help. Atleast BCs shoot only every ~20 seconds, and i think overmatch for them is actually balanced.

Btw the same problem with more and more overmatch is an issue for all TX Cruisers with 30mm plating, as we get more and more large caliber BBs. I dont think, thats only an issue with minotaur (might be more prevelant ofc).

 

I dont really see it as bad as you make it out to be. Its not that bad imo. If i look at a class of ships, where i often wonder "why play that one" its actually BBs. Which resulted in freeXPing literally all T9 BBs, but then at TX, its almost as bad.

FDG, Izumo, Iowa, Soyuz - why play them? Missouri or Musashi are literally superior in every way. At TX i look at GK and Monty, who dont have that overmatch against TX Cruisers. So i rather pick Yamato/Kremlin/Thunderer/Bourgogne instead, alltho Yamato and Bourgogne are my favourites. Bourgogne doesnt have the overmatch either, but it has other redeeming features.

 

Just now, Panocek said:

Who kept his tier 6 Cleveland :cap_hmm:

Someone unhid his stats.

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6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Premium ship stats cannot easily be compared with silver ships. And no, 58% winrate on a premium ship does not make a ship "OP"

And yes, I spend more time IN GAME than YOU.

 

Says the poster who lost his :etc_swear: when I pointed out the exact same thing to him.

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1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

Atleast prevents overmatch from Henri and Goliath, which already would help

Sole purpose of these two is to overmatch 16mm:cap_cool:

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4 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Unfortunately, Saint Spreadsheet is a thing and those three blokes still playing Khabarovsk make good enough stats to not warrant any buffs for Khaba, as she is top or very close to the top in damage department, while having balanced 49% WR.

Make that 4620+ players in the past two months.

Just now, Capra76 said:

Says the poster who lost his :etc_swear: when I pointed out the exact same thing to him.

You seem to be mistaken.

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Just now, Panocek said:

Sole purpose of these two is to overmatch 16mm:cap_cool:

 

I didnt say buff Smolensk armor :cap_haloween:

Alltho i think, Mino/Colbert/Smolensk could have 19mm plating instead of 16mm...

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Make that 4620+ players in the past two months.

Compared to 6.2k in Grozovoi, 16k in Gearing, 9k in Daring (only?:cap_wander:) and 26k in Shima... Khaba in comparison is kinda "played by three blokes at best"

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2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

I didnt say buff Smolensk armor :cap_haloween:

Alltho i think, Mino/Colbert/Smolensk could have 19mm plating instead of 16mm...

But you know 16mm "nerf" is the best buff you could ask for?

 

Because when sailing angled just enough to have all guns blazing, main belt ricochets (most) of AP, while upper hull have +-32mm effective armor. So even overmatching 234/240mm shells of these two won't trigger fuse:cap_haloween:

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Just now, Panocek said:

Compared to 6.2k in Grozovoi, 16k in Gearing, 9k in Daring (only?:cap_wander:) and 26k in Shima... Khaba in comparison is kinda "played by three blokes at best"

No really, otherwise you had 5 blokes on Grozo, 12 on Gearing, 6 on Daring and 18 on Shima.

4620 players makes her the least polular silver ship, but that is still a lot.

And this is not different from summer 2018.

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1 minute ago, Panocek said:

But you know 16mm "nerf" is the best buff you could ask for?

 

Because when sailing angled just enough to have all guns blazing, main belt ricochets (most) of AP, while upper hull have +-32mm effective armor. So even overmatching 234/240mm shells of these two won't trigger fuse:cap_haloween:

 

They will when they reach the citadel, which atleast for Mino is not hard to achieve as it has steps in it to make a nice surface.

Also no damage with ricochets still beats any damage :Smile-_tongue:

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7 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Also no damage with ricochets still beats any damage

Thats trait for BBmasterrace. Cruiser plebians have to make due with fully healable overpens:Smile_trollface:

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Just now, Panocek said:

fully  half healable overpens

 

FTFY :Smile_hiding:

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32 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

You seem to be mistaken.

 

4 February, you tried comparing WR% between Smolensk and Belfast.

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khabab and tashy could do with some love.

 

Spoiler

tashkent.jpg.576bdc6472eb04a6e30bf206031cdf78.jpg

 

The line seems quite uninspiring half the time.

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5 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

FTFY :Smile_hiding:

Nope. Regular pens, AP, SAP or HE are 50% half recoverable. Fires, floods and overpens are 100%

 

Just now, CptBarney said:

The line seems quite uninspiring half the time.

Thats what you get for "bringing cruiser into DD slot". You remove one destroyer from your team

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2 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

4 February, you tried comparing WR% between Smolensk and Belfast.

None of them are silverships...

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2 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Thats what you get for "bringing cruiser into DD slot". You remove one destroyer from your team

Don't think i touched the russian DD line, DD's arent really my thing.

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2 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

None of them are silverships...

 

However Smolensk is by far the most played T10 cruiser and thus is statistically far closer to being a silver ship than an extremely rare ship removed from sale 2 1/2 years ago.

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Just now, Panocek said:

Nope. Regular pens, AP, SAP or HE are 50% half recoverable. Fires, floods and overpens are 100% 

 

That used to be, but got changed somewhere down the road. (wiki used to show it, but they changed it recently so it wont say anymore...)

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Repair_Party_Data#cite_note-2

(obviously wrong as it doesnt even exclude fires/floods)

Only Fires/Floods/Ramming damage is 100% repairable. Everything else is somewhere between 10-75%

 

Wow, they really like to hide stuff...

 

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/index.php?title=Ship:Repair_Party_Data&diff=294131&oldid=289754

The old version still shows it

image.png.88091a9d3cc360e91adc7734dfe8a089.png

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