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MadBadDave

Prinz Eugen, AP or HE ?

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Apologies if this had been asked before but I’m hoping to get another’s perspective on my favourite cruiser; yep Eugen.

 

Very simple question; AP all the time, HE all the time or the usual (switch between the 2 as the need/situation arises).

 

I normally switch but a recent game where I took over 30k off a US cruiser and WG’s own Wiki description of Eugen led me to asking this question. 
 

Cruisers aren’t my main (DD’s and BB’s are).

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If red pixels is angled then HE. 
Else AP (ie broadsided)

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Surely the answer is AP when it will pen, HE when it won't?

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Just AP, when AP dont work try HE but basicly use AP. 

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21 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

Apologies if this had been asked before but I’m hoping to get another’s perspective on my favourite cruiser; yep Eugen.

 

Very simple question; AP all the time, HE all the time or the usual (switch between the 2 as the need/situation arises).

 

I normally switch but a recent game where I took over 30k off a US cruiser and WG’s own Wiki description of Eugen led me to asking this question. 
 

Cruisers aren’t my main (DD’s and BB’s are).

As always: it depends.

You are playing long enough to know that the optimal solution is to decide based on the situation.

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None, use torpedoes. AP bounce/shatter/overpen for 0 damage, HE are random, but might set a fire... But torps do guaranteed damage if you land them.

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46 minutes ago, Azalgor said:

None, use torpedoes. AP bounce/shatter/overpen for 0 damage, HE are random, but might set a fire... But torps do guaranteed damage if you land them.

Secondaries is where you at:cap_cool:

 

And on bit more serious note, use both. With preference towards German Piercing, if you can jam it into the target with good effect, not necessarily citadels though.

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1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

As always: it depends.

You are playing long enough to know that the optimal solution is to decide based on the situation.

For once I agree with you Pete, the point of the question was to hopefully get some wise guidance from someone who plays and knows the Eugen more than I do.

 

47 minutes ago, Azalgor said:

one, use torpedoes. AP bounce/shatter/overpen for 0 damage, HE are random, but might set a fire... But torps do guaranteed damage if you land them.

I agree the torps are short ranged but numerous and deadly, and quite funny when a tirpitz tries to trade torps.

 

Thanks all, will stick to the tried and tested   Route ; close eyes and prey upon pressing mouse button 🤭.

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AP should be your primary with HE used as needed. Also keep in mind that Overpenetrations will do more damage on saturated sections then HE.

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I mostly use AP on Prinz, HE isn't that good.  Besides, she's no Cleveland so use the german AP advantage to citadel and destroy cruisers while tanking damage like a champ. Torps are usable too if the enemy is within reach. 

 

190540554_8citsPE.thumb.jpg.7b2eac1a0545b01cf4540b1b519ee070.jpg

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I feel PE is best played at range, slowly closing in as the teams get decimated.

 

Use HE in the beginning and on angled targets, and switch to AP once you can reliably pen the enemy ships.

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Prinz Eugene and Admiral Hipper, both should use AP when possible, HE when the target is angled or a DD.

 

The AP is so good that it should be used if there is anything of a broadside to shoot at.

Just that the bounce angle isn't as good as the USN Super Heavy... But that doesn't make it bad. :) 

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2 hours ago, TheWolfQueen said:

I mostly use AP on Prinz, HE isn't that good.  Besides, she's no Cleveland so use the german AP advantage to citadel and destroy cruisers while tanking damage like a champ. Torps are usable too if the enemy is within reach. 

 

190540554_8citsPE.thumb.jpg.7b2eac1a0545b01cf4540b1b519ee070.jpg

After what happened earlier I’m gonna stick with AP and see how it pans out, normally I’d shoot he at a bbs superstructure, if in a dd or cruiser but given the PE’s Ap it must do just as good damage to the superstructure as HE ?, I’ve also seen elsewhere that PE’s AP is more effective vs DDs than HE ?.

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4 hours ago, MadBadDave said:

Very simple question; AP all the time, HE all the time or the usual (switch between the 2 as the need/situation arises).

 

Neither all the time, you should switch between the two depending on what you're shooting at, and how angled they are 

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42 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

After what happened earlier I’m gonna stick with AP and see how it pans out, normally I’d shoot he at a bbs superstructure, if in a dd or cruiser but given the PE’s Ap it must do just as good damage to the superstructure as HE ?, I’ve also seen elsewhere that PE’s AP is more effective vs DDs than HE ?.

If the DD is already mauled by HE the AP will be slightly more effective due to the damage of overpenetration very slightly exceeding the HE damage against a saturated section of the ship. Pay attention when you zoom to aim where you are likely to hit and adjust accordingly.

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23 hours ago, MadBadDave said:

Apologies if this had been asked before but I’m hoping to get another’s perspective on my favourite cruiser; yep Eugen.

 

Very simple question; AP all the time, HE all the time or the usual (switch between the 2 as the need/situation arises).

 

I normally switch but a recent game where I took over 30k off a US cruiser and WG’s own Wiki description of Eugen led me to asking this question. 
 

Cruisers aren’t my main (DD’s and BB’s are).

 

I struggled a bit with Prinz Eugen at first, specifically because of this AP-label that Prinz Eugen got. In hindsight I feel it is misleading.

You do a lot of damage with AP and that is very tempting, but bounces and shatters are still bounces and shatters. One should select ammo type pretty much as one would on any other heavy cruiser. The difference is simply that you do more damage in the lucky event that you can use AP, and that you do less damage in the rather usual situation that your target is angled and you need to use HE.

 

Shooting too much AP has two negative effects: First, you get lots of bounces and shatters, since the situation was not suited for AP, and second, opponents will be more aware of the threat and pay more attention to not give broadside to you. A ship shooting mostly AP will likely end up doing less citadel hits than a ship that seems to mostly shoot HE and invites enemies to make mistakes. The Prinz Eugen loves the Expert Loader. The AP is the nasty surprise for a target turning broadside or being ambushed by you. You don't want to alert your victim by shooting AP like a RN-CL.

 

The HE on PE is not all that bad. It deals less damage and has lower fire chance than most of the firestarters. But it does do damage, where others wouldn't. It gets the 1/4 penetration for HE, being able to pen 50mm of armor, where other CAs can only pen 32mm. So it can pen the deck armor of a lot more BBs even when uptiered, can pen ice breakers or Khabarovsk side armor. That itself doesn't offset the low fire chance. It's a balancing act. PE gets to tank 380mm shells, gets a heal and superior AP-shells, so the cost is it's HE.

 

The big difference in playstyle is that you try to get more situations where you can use AP, not that you can use AP more by default. You try to set up ambushes, like popping up behind an island a few km away from a broadside cruiser with your AP preloaded and ready to do multiple citadels. Even dev strikes are possible. Or, as said, you use your Expert Loader a lot and hit a turning cruiser where any firestarter would have taken too long to switch ammo and the target would have been sufficiently angled to bounce.

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7 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

 

I struggled a bit with Prinz Eugen at first, specifically because of this AP-label that Prinz Eugen got. In hindsight I feel it is misleading.

You do a lot of damage with AP and that is very tempting, but bounces and shatters are still bounces and shatters. One should select ammo type pretty much as one would on any other heavy cruiser. The difference is simply that you do more damage in the lucky event that you can use AP, and that you do less damage in the rather usual situation that your target is angled and you need to use HE.

 

Shooting too much AP has two negative effects: First, you get lots of bounces and shatters, since the situation was not suited for AP, and second, opponents will be more aware of the threat and pay more attention to not give broadside to you. A ship shooting mostly AP will likely end up doing less citadel hits than a ship   enemies to make mistakes. The Prinz Eugen loves the Expert Loader. The AP is the nasty surprise for a target turning broadside or being ambushed by you. You don't want to alert your victim by shooting AP like a RN-CL.

 

The HE on PE is not all that bad. It deals less damage and has lower fire chance than most of the firestarters. But it does do damage, where others wouldn't. It gets the 1/4 penetration for HE, being able to pen 50mm of armor, where other CAs can only pen 32mm. So it can pen the deck armor of a lot more BBs even when uptiered, can pen ice breakers or Khabarovsk side armor. That itself doesn't offset the low fire chance. It's a balancing act. PE gets to tank 380mm shells, gets a heal and superior AP-shells, so the cost is it's HE.

 

The big difference in playstyle is that you try to get more situations where you can use AP, not that you can use AP more by default. You try to set up ambushes, like popping up behind an island a few km away from a broadside cruiser with your AP preloaded and ready to do multiple citadels. Even dev strikes are possible. Or, as said, you use your Expert Loader a lot and hit a turning cruiser where any firestarter would have taken too long to switch ammo and the target would have been sufficiently angled to bounce.

Great Response, many  thanks, a lot of the above rings true, and I wanted another opinion, which you've more than done, I find PE frustrating as I'm sure you do, it definitely has all the tools, and is the one T8 cruiser you want in the end game, when things are close.    I Have no trouble hitting DD's at distance with PE and Hipper, because of those brilliant flat shell arks and shell velocity and it knocks down planes for fun, hydro, torps, heal, reload, range and HP all are great, which is why it's my Favourite Cruiser, it's historic and even the RN thought it was Bismarck when they first encountered it, it can be a lone raider or bb/fleet escort, and yet it never seems to be in anyone's top 10 lists, instead Bayard, Smolensk and Irian etc are. 

 

With RNG and PE's will AP hurt or not, I supposed the answer is suck it and see, thanks all.

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Very much agree with HMS_Kilinowski. I wondered if I was using too much HE but I found Eugen didn't reward "always shoot AP" that people *seemed* to be saying. 

 

Eugen has very good cruiser AP, but it doesn't do anything magical in situations when heavy cruiser AP is generally ineffective. 

Particularly it doesn't have the improved auto-bounce angles that some US cruisers (and others) can boost.

Use AP against broadsiding targets. Aim for the waterline for most cruisers and higher at the upper belt for most Battleships.

 

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14 minutes ago, SoothingWhaleSong said:

Very much agree with HMS_Kilinowski. I wondered if I was using too much HE but I found Eugen didn't reward "always shoot AP" that people *seemed* to be saying. 

 

Said it before and I'll say it again, if your ship has two ammunition types, and you're only using one, chances are you are not using your ship to her full potential.

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