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Mangrey

Longer wait time for better play experience

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Is this based on the assumption that a - however, not yet defined - better balanced matchup would generate, what ... more tense games?

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9 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

Is this based on the assumption that a - however, not yet defined - better balanced matchup would generate, what ... more tense games?

lets just start with that player with less then 50% and player with more then 50% win ratio are not play with each otheres 

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1 minute ago, Mangrey said:

lets just start with that player with less then 50% and player with more then 50% win ratio are not play with each otheres 

So if im 51% I'm the worst player and if I'm 49% suddenly I'm a god at this game. 

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[BYOB]
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That idea is contrary to the goal WG has been pursuing, 6 minute stomps that give no rewards to anyone.

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1 minute ago, Mangrey said:

lets just start with that player with less then 50% and player with more then 50% win ratio are not play with each otheres 

Which will change their WR and make them play each other in the future. Back to square one :Smile_great:

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3 minutes ago, Mangrey said:

lets just start with that player with less then 50% and player with more then 50% win ratio are not play with each otheres 

Ok, and what do you want to achieve? That e.g. 52% players only play against 52% players? 

 

Why? What do you think would be the outcome of such a match up?

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if you have 52% win ratio youll play vs othere 50%+

But you guys didnt anser my qustion. would you wait longer for better match up ?

 

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5 minutes ago, Mangrey said:

would you wait longer for better match up ?

The thing is, if I don't know WHAT I should wait longer for ... how can I answer your question correctly? Would I wait for a higher chance for me to win? Absolutely! Would I wait for more "even" matches? No.

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okay better = even  less chance that a a match get one sided 

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I think if anything they should just average out the teams. Not going into a ranked version. Just if your team avgs 51% then enemies should be close to it.

 

Once you start going into splitting teams into categories then you not only get longer wait times, you get shorter line ups. 

 

Out of the 10k people online, how many are afk, how many are coop online, how many are scenario, how many are in each tier. They splits are big enough already that to effectively half it would make it much worse and then you start seeing the same players even more etc. 

 

Also a player who has 49.9% goes from best and carrying the team etc to the worst and gets hammered on until the win rate means literally nothing. My stats are bad but growing and I think being on teams and against teams with much better players helps a lot, but a bad player winning a lot reinforces bad habits. 

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10 minutes ago, Mangrey said:

okay better = even  less chance that a a match get one sided 

Ok, if that's the premise: Then a hard no. I don't care for loop sided matches.

 

1 minute ago, LateBloomPlays said:

I think if anything they should just average out the teams.

If WG makes that a separate game mode (e.g. "Randoms++") I'm all for it.

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2 hours ago, Mangrey said:

Would you wait longer ?

Definitely, if it meant MM was +/-1, and if you must (just changing to 1 across the board would be enough), all players PR, not WR are a factor.

 

Why PR, obvious( any idiot can hide behind a unicum and win, how many afks saw a victory ?,  PR as we all know is based on damage,  I’ve just played a game in FDG, I did ok, taking out a Jean Bart and keeping more than 3 ships busy before finally going down, the team was doing badly and a landslide looked inevitable, until the green JB and Neptune stepped up, Neptune killed 6 and essentially won the game, now using WR we both won, using PR you’d see the Neptune player stands out, as they should. Both JB and Neptune had top Ranked players.   Unusually there were 3 top rankers vs 3 top rankers,

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4 hours ago, Allied_Winter said:

Would I wait for more "even" matches? No.

So you do like steam rolls matches that last 8min, you do like results like 12:1, 12:2 and such? Do you enjoy it when you lose like that? Or even when win?

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4 hours ago, Yamato942 said:

Do you enjoy it when you lose like that? Or even when win?

When I lose it's over quicker and when I win ... well ... I win, what more do I want. I base my gaming experience on the win. Sure ... a drawn out game where I do 200k DMG is nice ... but at the same time ... given how players play ... far to many chances to throw ... when the enemy is down 6 ships and I'm still alive though ... chances of a loss are getting small (not 0 though unfortunately).

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14 hours ago, Allied_Winter said:

When I lose it's over quicker and when I win ... well ... I win, what more do I want. I base my gaming experience on the win. Sure ... a drawn out game where I do 200k DMG is nice ... but at the same time ... given how players play ... far to many chances to throw ... when the enemy is down 6 ships and I'm still alive though ... chances of a loss are getting small (not 0 though unfortunately).

So what is a good WoWs experience for you ?

 

for me its top 3 on the winning team, a bad one is losing no matter if its the first loser or the 12th

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9 hours ago, Mangrey said:

So what is a good WoWs experience for you ?

Ideally it'd be just smacking the enemy left right and center (e.g. in a BB when the enemy comes around a corner broadside and gets citadelled into oblivion, or when I'm in a cruiser and set fire after fire after fire after fire ... you get the point). Since that is however pretty dependend on the teams (or in short RNG), I simply stick to do my best and am happy with the win. As long as I win, I'm not too fuzzed about where I land in the team list (though usually it's more further up, than further down).

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On 5/3/2020 at 11:00 PM, Mangrey said:

Would you wait longer ?

 

Yes definitely

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On 5/3/2020 at 11:21 PM, Mangrey said:

lets just start with that player with less then 50% and player with more then 50% win ratio are not play with each otheres 

 

So another ask for skillbased MM. Havent seen that in a while. In the past it has been explained at lenght why it is a bad idea and on top its contrary to everything WG intends to do (luckily). Sadly your stats are hidden, I would love to see from which side you are looking at it. Are you a frustrated unicum who is annoyed by the 11 sub 50% players on your team while the enemy team has all the pros? Or are you frustrated because you die to often and want a protected MM?

Both will not significantly change with a skillbased MM.

As already pointed out, players with 50,01% winrate would have a mucht harder time than players with 49,99%, why is this desirable?

 

On 5/3/2020 at 11:35 PM, Mangrey said:

okay better = even  less chance that a a match get one sided 

 

Of course we all like the 20min game when it goes to 999 points and only 1 ship left on each side better than a 6min beatdown. Battles with twists and turns and change of pointlead etc are way more fun.

 

While playing random in the past, beatdowns rarely happened because of a huge skillgap. Usually its just an advantage that snowballs. Imagine teams split up evenly on each flank, so instead of 12vs12 each flank fights 6vs6. Because of different skill, fire rng, lucky citas, ... one ship dies first, turning it into a 6vs5. Assuming all ships have equal firepower one team now has a ~20% firepower advantage, making it more likely that one of the 5 ships die than one of the 6. So it is likely that it turns into a 6vs4, with a 50% advantage, making it more likely....

Some time ago there was exactly this explanation in the WoT forum from a military historian. If I remember correctly math indicated that there is a 50% chance that a 12vs12 ends in a 11-9:0, so a felt beatdown. MM cant change it.

 

Never the less I would gladly approve some protected MM for fresh players, especially around T5-7. I think it is pretty steep curve from T5 to T10 gameplay.

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On 5/4/2020 at 2:40 AM, MadBadDave said:

Why PR, obvious( any idiot can hide behind a unicum and win, how many afks saw a victory ?,  PR as we all know is based on damage,  I’ve just played a game in FDG, I did ok, taking out a Jean Bart and keeping more than 3 ships busy before finally going down, the team was doing badly and a landslide looked inevitable, until the green JB and Neptune stepped up, Neptune killed 6 and essentially won the game, now using WR we both won, using PR you’d see the Neptune player stands out, as they should. Both JB and Neptune had top Ranked players.   Unusually there were 3 top rankers vs 3 top rankers,

 

So you think its more likely, that an AFK player gets 60% WR by never playing, than BBs farming HE damage from 20kms away to pad their PR?

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[THESO]
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Would I be willing to wait a little longer for better games? Definitely...But so far, no one has demonstrated what "better" would actually be, so there's no real point in it.

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What a great SBMM topic we have here :) 

Lets carry this discussion where it belongs eh? 

To the MM discussion topic! 

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