Another cost of test ship secrecy

[Smeggo]

Vor 1 Stunde, kfa sagte:

soo Gascogne 2.0 because the first one turned out so well?

She is still a superfun Battlecruiser - I don't feels the nerfs as I cannot hit targets at 26km anyway 

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 4 Stunden, Miblogdegolf sagte:

 

The objective is that we haven't enough information, so we buy blindfolded. Some CCs have said that they are not going to test the ships if they are not able to show them to the players. Until this pathetic WG's behavoir finishes, we have blogs like this one that show us detailed info about the ships:

 

https://www.wows-gamer-blog.com/2020/03/kim-tier-ix-soviet-battleship.html

Than don't buy! Simple.

Wait another week until all reviews are finished, then make up your mind. What is so bloody hard about that? Don't tell me your life depends on getting a premium ship one week earlier.

[ImTryingButYouDontHelp]

On 5/4/2020 at 11:55 AM, Miragetank90 said:

CCs will still be able to test the ships, but can only show them to players closer to the release date of said ship

You are saying that I have enough with the stats of a ship, because they tell me everything about her  So, if this is true, why not showing her?  You are contradicting yourself. The fact is that they only will show the ship when they have finished her WiP, so they won't change anything about her. The goal is avoid the protests from the players in the forums when the CC show OP/powercreeped/crap ships. If WG have done a good job and created a decently balanced ship, why be affraid of showing her? Obviosly, if you show a branch tier X heavy cruiser that can make 5 citadels to a Kremlin, has nearly the same armour of a BB, has 12 kms radar, 360º turrets, nearly DD accuracy at 18 kms, etc. YOU ARE GOING TO BE CRITICIZED FOR SURE. If your devs are so vain to feel hurted because of that, DO A BETTER JOB instead of censoring CCs. It's as easy as that.

 

20 hours ago, Johnny_Moneto said:

Than don't buy! Simple.

Wait another week until all reviews are finished, then make up your mind. What is so bloody hard about that? Don't tell me your life depends on getting a premium ship one week earlier.

Is it so bloody hard to understand that, if you limit people from protesting from their decissions, as, when showed, the ship won't be changed, a lot more ships like Smolensk are going to be introduced in the game? Are you so obtuse? And we are not only talking only about premium ships but also about branch ships, and branches, etc. It's at WG genes not to listen to us, but doing so they are going to listen even less, and we are seeing right now how the game has evolved to its actual state (a fuc@ing mess). 

[pra3y]

42 minutes ago, Miblogdegolf said:

You are saying that I have enough with the stats of a ship, because they tell me everything about her  So, if this is true, why not showing her?  You are contradicting yourself. The fact is that they only will show the ship when they have finished her WiP, so they won't change anything about her. The goal is avoid the protests from the players in the forums when the CC show OP/powercreeped/crap ships. If WG have done a good job and created a decently balanced ship, why be affraid of showing her? Obviosly, if you show a branch tier X heavy cruiser that can make 5 citadels to a Kremlin, has nearly the same armour of a BB, has 12 kms radar, 360º turrets, nearly DD accuracy at 18 kms, etc. YOU ARE GOING TO BE CRITICIZED FOR SURE. If your devs are so vain to feel hurted because of that, DO A BETTER JOB instead of censoring CCs. It's as easy as that.

 

Is it so bloody hard to understand that, if you limit people from protesting from their decissions, as, when showed, the ship won't be changed, a lot more ships like Smolensk are going to be introduced in the game? Are you so obtuse? And we are not only talking only about premium ships but also about branch ships, and branches, etc. It's at WG genes not to listen to us, but doing so they are going to listen even less, and we are seeing right now how the game has evolved to its actual state (a fuc@ing mess). 

 

Well people can still complain about the finish product so what is the problem? IMO all this happened because some CCs and people overreact all the time on how some of those WIP ships are performing while they are just still WIP. I mean the whole purpose is for them to test how those ships work on the live server and probably re-adjust the ships from there. But people overreact and assume that those are/would be the final values and/or just stir the pot, resulting in all these negative comments and posts. The reason they are WIP is because they are still being tested. Instead of being allowed to test the ship properly, they have to waste time and effort dealing with those overreaction, so why should they continue? Its like burning witches in medieval Europe. You don't know if that person is actually a witch or not but by god you're gonna burn her at the stakes because you think she is one.

 

Not that I condone WG or anything (@#$% my moskva perma camo) but in this case, I think overreacting CCs and players on test ship caused this issue, so you guys only have yourself to blame. Even if they introduce an OP ship, can they not nerf it or balance it after it has been introduced if people kick up fuss?

 

Calling it censorship is just BS. Some people are just not happy that got either nothing to overreact about or that they no longer have early access to how the ship plays.Plus people are free to choose whether to play the game or not. Its not like not having early gameplay footage of a WIP ship impact your daily lives.

 

So much first world problem lol 

[Taliesn]

 

1 hour ago, Miblogdegolf said:

You are saying that I have enough with the stats of a ship, because they tell me everything about her  So, if this is true, why not showing her?  You are contradicting yourself. The fact is that they only will show the ship when they have finished her WiP, so they won't change anything about her. The goal is avoid the protests from the players in the forums when the CC show OP/powercreeped/crap ships. If WG have done a good job and created a decently balanced ship, why be affraid of showing her? Obviosly, if you show a branch tier X heavy cruiser that can make 5 citadels to a Kremlin, has nearly the same armour of a BB, has 12 kms radar, 360º turrets, nearly DD accuracy at 18 kms, etc. YOU ARE GOING TO BE CRITICIZED FOR SURE. If your devs are so vain to feel hurted because of that, DO A BETTER JOB instead of censoring CCs. It's as easy as that.

 

 

WiP ship's data will still be available and readily accesible to everyone. And CCs will show the ship right before being released, when it is no longer a WiP thing with temporary stats. The only thing it limits is people from getting worked up by something that ain't the finished product, weeks or even months before it hits the shop. It shouldn't be too hard to comprehend, but there you go.

 

There will be enough info days before release anyway so that you can make an accurate appraisal of the ship, and if you don't, then it's up to you and your wallet.

[Excavatus]

1 hour ago, Miblogdegolf said:

WG have done a good job and created a decently balanced ship

 

1 hour ago, Miblogdegolf said:

will show the ship when they have finished her WiP,

 

WIP means, they are trying to balance the ship decently. 

They can do that somehow decently only in live testing. Because closed test servers does not give enough data. 

They test it live, balance it, test it again balance it If necessary, test it again.. etc. etc. etc.. 

Then when they believe, the ship is ready to release.. Then they will lift the ban on creating content.. 

 

I really cannot wrap my mind why it is so hard to understand and how people can think this is censorship. 

WG does not want people talking about, forming opinions about NOT READY ships.. because almost always, they get re-balanced.. 

 

[Thracen]

On 5/4/2020 at 10:55 AM, Miragetank90 said:

 

idk how many times this is going to have to be repeated for people to understand. Everything you just said is wrong.

 

The info will still be there on the devblog. 

CCs will still be able to test the ships, but can only show them to players closer to the release date of said ship. They can still show them to players.

You will still have access to detailed info, if you care enough to want it. If you don't this doesn't affect you.

 

In any case, you will not be buying blindfolded unless you make it that way. 

 

What is so hard to comprehend about this?

 

Yes, all well and good.

 

But what is wrong with wanting a game we play to be easier to understand and get information about? Easier is better yes? Not everyone plays games like their life depended on it or as if it is their job. This game is kept afloat by filthy casuals, why not be nice to them?

[Thracen]

On 5/3/2020 at 7:51 PM, Allied_Winter said:

Really?

 

Ok, let's say we have a fictional premium ship that WG wants to release on April 1st.

 

A few patches earlier it enters testing on the live server (for the sake of breviety let's make it two patches / 8 weeks). This Info is announced on the Dev Blog (so for everyone to see AND talk about). And while CC's are no longer allowed to stream/showcase game play, you will notice that these ships have entered testing.

 

During this testing period WG changes some stats of the ship. This Info is announced on the Dev Blog (for everyone to see AND talk about). And while CC's are no longer allowed to stream/showcase game play, you will notice when the CC of your choice hovers over the ship and mentiones the changes from the dev blog.

 

One week (only an assumption on my part)prior to release, the NDA for the CC ends and they can release their videos. For everybody to watch. Not like in previous times where different CC's had different versions of a ship up on YT at the same time so you got confused about the fact if the ship you see is the actual released version or not.

 

On April 1st the ship gets released.

 

So ... what changed? Apart from the fact that your favourite CC can no longer put out Preview and iteration 1/2/3/n videos?

Right so the crux of my post is this. I would like information on ships shooting at me during their testing phase to be more easily accessible. I think it is impractical to think every player is going to go to a very poorly visited blog before they click battle. Wargaming knows the blog is not visited because it doesn't generate hype like CCs, which is why they have made this decision to avoid hype on test ships. 

 

Is information on test ships less accessible now? Yes it is. Is it less convenient for the majority of the player base? Welp yes again. Is it very unpleasant to fight a ship you know nothing about and have never seen before. Yes.

 

Solutions that have been offered will work for me. I will check this blog every now and then, but most won't so I don't consider the issue solved for everyone.

 

That's what has changed.

 

[ColonelPete]

8 minutes ago, Thracen said:

But what is wrong with wanting a game we play to be easier to understand and get information about?

That is why you get less conflicting information in the future and not information about four versions of the same ship of which three are irrelevant. Preventing you from buying/Free XP a ship based on a review on the first, long discarded version of the ship.

[Thracen]

Sorry Colonel but I think players have a much better understanding that ships get changed all the time especially when they are constantly shown with  WIP tag as required than being given less information full stop. (Yes I know the information will be in text on a blog but first someone has to look and second someone has to then imagine what that ship might play like. something even wargaming cannot do because if they did they wouldn't need extensive public testing in the first place!)

[ColonelPete]

We already had complaints on the forum from people who bought/researched ships based on outdated videos.

[Allied_Winter]

32 minutes ago, Thracen said:

I would like information on ships shooting at me during their testing phase to be more easily accessible.

Sure! But it's not that this problem wasn't there prior to the NDA change. Again, take two CC's. One is up to date and keep their audience informed during streams, the other does not. So the players that only follow the second CC are "at a disadvantage".

 

It's like always in life: If you want to stay up to date you have to scavenger through multiple sources of information. WG alleviated the issue a bit by channeling all the info through the dev blog AND by allowing all CC's to only launch their reviews after a certain date.

 

So is it less information? Yes. As you already observed. Is it a big deal? To some yes, to others no, to some others, it's inbetween. I mean ... what's about the players that maybe wonder what strange ship shot at them, but don't watch any CC's and don't take a look in the forum. They may be annoyed about that new ship, but in the end probably don't care enough about what happens around them so they don't really "miss" any information.

 

Which leaves us with these folks that are in the group: "Interested in the game" + "Don't check the forums/devblog" + "Watch one/multiple CCs" 

 

And this group is - at least according to the threads I've seen so far regarding this topic - split. Some are in favour of the change (e.g. me), some are not (e.g. you). And while I acknowledge the problems you highlight, I see them outweighed by the fact that we now get highly likely less complaints from people that buy ships on outdated CC reviews (as maybe they only follow one CC and that CC put up only a preview of a ship that got heavily changed).

 

26 minutes ago, Thracen said:

players have a much better understanding that ships get changed all the time especially when they are constantly shown with  WIP tag

I doubt that. Given how many folks complain about e.g. a stealth Tirpitz nerf despite watching CC's that know the game and point out the flaws in their argumentation. The thing is, players see a ship, they (don't) like something about it and (don't) want it changed. They don't really care about the WIP because to them any previous change was ALWAYS in the wrong direction. So WIP is more up there for due dilligence, as those that know about the balancing process understand that a ship shown today can be different tomorrow.

 

 

[Bratoev]

I see a russian ship I act accordingly. Minor difference here and there between it and its peers hardly matters.

[ImTryingButYouDontHelp]

3 hours ago, pra3y said:

 

Well people can still complain about the finish product so what is the problem? IMO all this happened because some CCs and people overreact all the time on how some of those WIP ships are performing while they are just still WIP. I mean the whole purpose is for them to test how those ships work on the live server and probably re-adjust the ships from there. But people overreact and assume that those are/would be the final values and/or just stir the pot, resulting in all these negative comments and posts. The reason they are WIP is because they are still being tested. Instead of being allowed to test the ship properly, they have to waste time and effort dealing with those overreaction, so why should they continue? Its like burning witches in medieval Europe. You don't know if that person is actually a witch or not but by god you're gonna burn her at the stakes because you think she is one.

 

Not that I condone WG or anything (@#$% my moskva perma camo) but in this case, I think overreacting CCs and players on test ship caused this issue, so you guys only have yourself to blame. Even if they introduce an OP ship, can they not nerf it or balance it after it has been introduced if people kick up fuss?

 

Calling it censorship is just BS. Some people are just not happy that got either nothing to overreact about or that they no longer have early access to how the ship plays.Plus people are free to choose whether to play the game or not. Its not like not having early gameplay footage of a WIP ship impact your daily lives.

 

So much first world problem lol 

 

Overreact? Maybe the CC are tired that WG doesn't hear them at all. Maybe they are tired to be ignored while seeing the mess the game is right now, better called "World of ROFLStomping". When WG started to break the balance of WoWs, they started (rightly, I think) to complain. I'm not saying they have to follow all they say, but when aberrations like some we saw last months are released without changes, they deserve criticism from CCs. The same when they lie time after time about several issues (PR, Dessync, Moskva, etc. We all know what WiP is, but the base ship from where they want to start introducing changes is so out of mind that one can't imagine wtf is the problem in their minds.

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, Miblogdegolf said:

 

Overreact? Maybe the CC are tired that WG doesn't hear them at all. Maybe they are tired to be ignored while seeing the mess the game is right now, better called "World of ROFLStomping". 

As if that had anything to do with the ships...

[pra3y]

2 hours ago, Miblogdegolf said:

 

Overreact? Maybe the CC are tired that WG doesn't hear them at all. Maybe they are tired to be ignored while seeing the mess the game is right now, better called "World of ROFLStomping". When WG started to break the balance of WoWs, they started (rightly, I think) to complain. I'm not saying they have to follow all they say, but when aberrations like some we saw last months are released without changes, they deserve criticism from CCs. The same when they lie time after time about several issues (PR, Dessync, Moskva, etc. We all know what WiP is, but the base ship from where they want to start introducing changes is so out of mind that one can't imagine wtf is the problem in their minds.

Then they can go promote some other game. No one say they can't can they? The CCs are at the end of the day the CCs. They are not the game developers or WG. So why should they be given the ability to start a riot before anything is finalized? If you can't act professional in your "job"/role as a CC then this is the consequence I guess.

 

Its not like they cannot criticize WG after WG release say an unbalanced ship so no, I disagree that there is any form of censorship. It is only censorship if WG tries to do stuff like issue a DMCA takedown on a CC's critical video on say the smolensk. But have you seen them doing something along those lines (save for fochgate)? No. Sure maybe they don't listen to the CCs, but the fact of the matter is the CCs are not their boss, shareholders or any part of WG. They can take into consideration what the CC has said and maybe act on it, but they don't have to take orders from a CC or face a mob riot on a WIP ship just because a CC overreacted on it.

 

I mean you can fault WG for doing something wrong but applying such a bias approach to everything they do is really BS to me. 

[Allied_Winter]

3 minutes ago, pra3y said:

Its not like they cannot criticize WG after WG release say an unbalanced ship

And they can criticize WG during the testing period. That's what the CC discord (or for ST's the ST discord) is for.

 

It's just a little less public (which I can understand irks some folks).

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

On 5/3/2020 at 7:51 PM, Allied_Winter said:

On April 1st the ship gets released.

I could sense a joke here, but...benefit of the doubt kicked in. :)

 

[Miscommunication_dept]

Good reasons for and a against.

We can still see stats and armour layouts during testing. That’s how I evaluate ships anyway.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 14 Stunden, Miblogdegolf sagte:

Is it so bloody hard to understand that, if you limit people from protesting from their decissions, as, when showed, the ship won't be changed, a lot more ships like Smolensk are going to be introduced in the game? Are you so obtuse? And we are not only talking only about premium ships but also about branch ships, and branches, etc. It's at WG genes not to listen to us, but doing so they are going to listen even less, and we are seeing right now how the game has evolved to its actual state (a fuc@ing mess). 

So, the blind buy is already settled then because now you are thrwoing out the next objection? Good.

What we will have in the future is actually what we had in the past already. Ships are presented to the broad public a week or so before release.

The game actually went downhill during the time when CCs were allowed to show new ships well in advance in an much earlier development state. However, I do not think there is any correlation between the CCs showing ships early and us getting ships like Worcester (especially in its original release config!), Harugumo, Smolensk, Stalingrad, Kremlin et al. All these unfun-to-play-against ships were reeleased during the phase when CCs were allowed to show them early. Remember? Did that help us in any way? I dare say no.

 

[SquibSurefire]

On 5/4/2020 at 11:08 AM, Miblogdegolf said:

Some CCs have said that they are not going to test the ships if they are not able to show them to the players.

 

It will take much longer for the voices objecting to something or highlighting a problem to become impossible for WG to ignore and only serves to give them more time to (pick your option) cover it up / brush it aside / fix it before it gets to that point.

 

There is a hidden nuke in there thou, when WG now says "here you go guys, this is finished, you can now review it" and whatever they are offering is broken you will have set that nuke off.  Doing anything other than launching the completed product is an admission that they cannot do what they are supposed to do ans simply refer to the spreadsheets being balanced.

 

 

[MementoMori_6030]

Just sank some Asama shippy. Looks like Amagi, dies like Amagi, and after quick-reading https://www.wows-gamer-blog.com/2020/03/asama-tier-viii-japanese-battleship.html I can't tell any difference from Amagi (which I don't own, because she was never put into service). So how useful is such info? Or am I looking at a wrong website?

[cpt_sparrow_jack]

On 5/3/2020 at 6:04 PM, Thracen said:

So I've just finished a match against a Zarya Sovobo something or other. Tier 9 Soviet BB. I had no idea what I was up against, no clue on armour, or what was shooting at me. I can't ask anyone for next time either because all the info is going to be under NDA. 

 

So here we are the humble playerbase getting spanked by the unknown. Not a pleasant situation. 

 

Oh and obviously I can't judge too much about the ship having only faced it once but I from what I experienced I think we've got a tier 9 Slava on the way so let's all look forward to that one! :D

i believe is so wrong in so many levels WG to test unbalanced ships in real servers that we are paying premium time camos special flags etc

 

 

[Smeggo]

Vor 33 Minuten, MementoMori_6030 sagte:

Just sank some Asama shippy. Looks like Amagi, dies like Amagi, and after quick-reading https://www.wows-gamer-blog.com/2020/03/asama-tier-viii-japanese-battleship.html I can't tell any difference from Amagi (which I don't own, because she was never put into service). So how useful is such info? Or am I looking at a wrong website?

You could install one of the "show testships in techtree" mods and compare the details.

Asama (work in progress) is currently slightly faster (+2 ktn) and has a slightly better dispersion than Amagi - but less armor. 

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 2 Minuten, Smeggo sagte:

You could install one of the "show testships in techtree" mods and compare the details.

Asama (work in progress) is currently slightly faster (+2 ktn) and has a slightly better dispersion than Amagi - but less armor. 

Even less armor than Amagi at T8? God, they really do hate the IJN at St. Petersburg...