What makes you consider quitting WoWs?

[Hanse77SWE]

48 minutes ago, Inappropriate_noob said:

Nope, a well played CV might feel like a game breaker, just as the Defender made people lose their minds in WoT's,inreality the Defender, now due to gold spam in that game, is just another tank. CV's are justa class of ship,not OP at all unless you get the few who are really good at CV play, I can guarantee you with a royal seal of approval, that if I take my CV's out they break no game, if you want a good CV game, hope and pray I am on the red team,you could even bait me and stay still, I would still miss

To "play" CV isn't to play a ship. It's to play with airplanes. If the ship was removed and the planes were to take off from an airstrip on an island the experience would still be the same.

And it doesn't matter if the player sucks, just by being there it forces you into an "unfun" playstyle, or your team responds to it and that forces you into an "unfun" playstyle and even the most "sucky" CV-cap can still keep a DD spotted and ruin his day.

[Sunleader]

7 hours ago, Alsonleris01 said:

 

You might be right.I dont know what is causing that campy meta CVs or He spammers or whatever,i also dont like it.I really want this game to be fun again,times like before conquerer, if this meta will resolve with the remove of CV then so be it i can not be happier.

 

 

I dont know those 3 good players but as i said if the game will be great again #RemoveCV.

 

I read all your writing.I want to say this the people that complaining abot being CVs are broken and overpowered does not mention the fact that there are so much broken things in the game.
 

First is the Smolensk.All the Facts that you mentioned before are being broken by this cancer thing.

Fact 1- It beats large cruisers and BBs in speed and concealment and it wont lose any fight in any position so there is no reason to not to engage.It can not be killed under 10km unlike any other cruiser because it has the best armor for not having any.

Fact 2-You can not angle or disangage from a smolensk.It has almost 20km (more or less but close i dont know) range.As long as you are spotted it can shoot you.

Fact 3-Since Smolensk got smoke and broken shell tracers that dont render until 1-2 km away from the ship it has no danger to be attacked inside the smoke.Or even when sailing around it is brokenly fast(french CAs are even nerfed)  and agile.

Fact 4-Well if you want to spot a Smolensk as a CV good luck with its insane AA.CV can attack it,but can not spot for  long durations.DDs can spot a Smolensk but i think good players wont risk they self to spot a ship that any ally BBs doesnt shoot because it got anything but overpens.

 

Smolensk is can be killed only the captain of it sucks with it.

 

Other Russian ships are also breaking some of those "simple facts".Kremlin,Moskva,upcoming Petropavlosk is looks better then Moskva and a Smolensk type AL. Nevsky.Oh and ofcourse Stalingrad.

About A, i agree you when a good CV player makes a mistake what he loses is just a squadron.But there  are players that dont know how to dodge flak so they lost a whole squadron with their every attack and being completely useless after 4 min.I think that WG doesnt desing the ships according to playerbase for example a Moskva can be so tanky with staying angled but when it exposes its broadside a bit it can be deleted with one shot.But still players show broadside with Moskva,so what is it OP or is it weak?It completly depends on players.CV is really powerfull in good hands like other types.

About B,i completely agree you nothing to say abot that.

C-DDs and BBs are also extremly game deciding.When your dds suicide in 2 min or your BBs decides to camp at the border of maps you have nothing to do with any type of ship.The reason is for me to start playing CV is a guy that participated a ranked match of mine as a CV that the only thing he was doing is just flying around and losing his planes for nothing.This guy has over 2k hundred matchs with CV got every T10 and premium CVs but not has over %30 win rate any of the CVs he got and average damage over 25K.This guy was the worst player of anytype i have ever seen.That %30 win rate causes of the CV difference on the match where u can not achieve with just suiciding any other type of ship.When i saw this guy's stats i said that is it i am starting to playing CV.

D-I also completely agree to you.

 

and for the last E-I want to correct those numbers.%50 RNG,%40CV,%10 for the player for rocket and DBs(i was going to give %25,%25 to CV and player but when player tries to dodge he might be in situation to be showing broadside to enemy team because of that i gave %40to%10).For TBs %60 CV %30 player %10 RNG(same reason applies to those numbers as well).

 

I didnt played cv before rework but i was feeling that CVs were so much broken at that time.

 

Please dont get me wrong i  just started to playing CV,i am not bad with it,i just started to see the my mistakes when i was playing with other types and started to think like "Well it isnt that much powerfull when you know it's weaknesses".Maybe i would feel it is OP when i get better.I am not against you i am trying to say that there are more other things that brokes game as much as CVs.

 

My best compliments to you and stay healty.

 

1.

Whataboutism isnt really a Good way to go about things Mate.

Just because there is other Problems does not mean you Should Ignore this Problem. Otherwise Complaining about any Problem at all would be Hypocritical and thus ALL Problems will just Stay Untouched forever.

 

You Complain about Smolensk. Thats Fine with me. But it doesnt Change the CV Problem. And now put yourself into my Shoes here.

Imagine that each Time you Complain about Smolensk (or another Russian Ship etc etc). I come into the Topic and start degrading your Complaint by saying that Complaining about Smolensk is wrong because CVs are still not Fixed.

Pretty sure you Realize that this way neither of us will get anything trough here.

 

This is called Whataboutism. You have not even tried to Answer any of the Problems I Pointed out. You just try to Deflect it by saying "But something else is also Broken" And the end Result of this is always that no Problem can be Complained about at all. Because whatever Problem you complain about. I as well will also just come back to you "But What About this Other Problem" and so all Complains are wrong. So basicly what you do with this. Is Hail WG and have WG just do whatever they want because nobody can Complain about anything they do.

 

So dont you think it would be better if instead of blocking each others Complaints and giving WG Excuses to not Fix anything at all whatsoever we should rather just both Complain about the Stuff we find Importand ?

 

 

2.

A.

Which is a Design Flaw I actually Point out myself in that Post. But that doesnt change the Problem.

B.

ok

C.

Especially DDs are Yes. But here is the Difference. For DDs you usually have 3 of them. And only one of them needs to be Competent to have that Flank Fighting. For CV you only have 1. And that 1 Guy Wields roundabout the same Influence as these 3 DDs. Needless to say. The CV is also the one most often Responsible for DDs Dying Early.

Same for BBs. You usually have several BBs. And unless 2 or 3 BBs are like this you can still Fight. But if your 1 CV is a Potato you end up with Problems. For BBs and DDs you simply have bigger Sample Sizes. This Equalizes the Chances. Because thanks to there being 2-4 of them per Team. The Chance that both Teams get the Same amount of Good and Bad Players is much higher than for the CV which is always 1 vs 1 and thus is automaticly always extremely likely to end with 1 Potato vs 1 Good CV Player.

Fast Example for this. Both Teams have 1 CV. So if Team A has Good CV and Team B has Bad CV you have Team A being 100% Stronger Or if Team A has Good CV and Team B has Average CV you still got Team A 100% Stronger. Because the only way you have some Balance is when by some Miracle both Players are roughly Equally Skilled. 

Now do the same but with DDs. Both Teams get 3 DDs. Team A gets 1 good 2 bad and Team B gets 1 Average 2 Bad. You come down with Team A having an Advantage. But that Advantage is effectively just 33% of the above. And getting Team A with 3 Good DDs and Team B with 3 Bad DDs is an extremely Rare Case.

D.

ok

E.

Just saying. But if you give 50% to RNG (Automatic System) and 40% to the CV (The CV Fighting an Automatic System) then you actually end up with exactly the same that I said. Which is that 90% is the Player Fighting an Automatic System.

 

 

3.

Thats a Fallacy alot of People make unfortunately. They Play it. And they notice that it cant just Roflstomp everyone.

But I can tell you Straight away. If you get a Smolensk yourself. You would actually have the same Experience. Because if you dont know how to play it. You will just get Blapped.

But that doesnt mean anything. Because most of these Weaknesses just Dissappear once you know how to deal with things.

Most new CV Players feel that AA is Overhwelming for example. Because they dont yet know how to Dodge Flak. But once they know. AA almost stops existing to them.

 

But more Importand is what I said at the start of the Post.

This Whataboutism thing of not allowing Complaints about this because there is other things that are also Problems. Is always wrong. Because as I said. If you dont allow Complaints about this because there is other Problems. Then no Complaints is allowed because there is always other Problems. And so no Problems can be complained about at all.

[TakahashiRyosuke]

14 hours ago, Hanse77SWE said:

MM is not the problem

Get yourself the MM-Monitor and see if that's really true. There are so many situations, where swapping a couple of ships between teams would equalize average stats of each team / the amount of radar ships / differences in ship types (i. e. 2 torpedoboats vs 2 gunboats) etc.

 

And add what I keep repeating here, that +/-1 MM would solve many problems, including those with CVs and I guess it becomes pretty obvious, that MM is actually one of the biggest problems of the game.

 

13 hours ago, Sunleader said:

1. This Dev Strike needed several Minutes to Prepare. So instead of being Struck once per Minute for 10k you got Struck once per 5 Minutes for 50k Which makes 0 Difference.

2. This Dev Strike had to done while Fighting an Air Superiority Battle against the Enemy CV. Which was often very Difficult when you wanted to launch Dev Strikes because losing the Squadrons really freaking hurt.

3. This Dev Strike could be Entirely Blocked. A Catapult Fighter or an Ally with Def AA could Throw off the Aim completely turning this once in 5 minutes Dev Strike into something costing you maybe 5-10k HP instead of 50k HP and thus making it almost entirely useless.

4. Such Dev Strikes were extremely hard to set up and the Player in the Attacked Ship had some real Agency at Dodging. Because even when you used Manual Drop. Once the Aircraft started the Attack Run. The Automatic System took over and you had no more Control. While now you can Adjust the Aim down to the last Second.

have you played CVs before the rework? Cause most of this is not true, especially if you had any skill whatsoever and could use manual plane control. This with being able aim to the last second now is also not true, try that and your drop is useless.

[Phayk]

CVs probably. Idk, makes it impossible to get my friends into this game as well. Soon's we get to T4 they get annoyed by CVs and just don't want to play anymore.

I'm probably still playing because there's just no other game like this. It's like if there's only one sushi place in your city but they insist on serving it with Ketchup. Guess I got no choice if I really want sushi.

[Hanse77SWE]

40 minutes ago, jasinaPL said:

Get yourself the MM-Monitor and see if that's really true. There are so many situations, where swapping a couple of ships between teams would equalize average stats of each team / the amount of radar ships / differences in ship types (i. e. 2 torpedoboats vs 2 gunboats) etc.

 

And add what I keep repeating here, that +/-1 MM would solve many problems, including those with CVs and I guess it becomes pretty obvious, that MM is actually one of the biggest problems of the game.

Again, MM is the symptom, not the problem. The real problem is the spread in player skill. If the "bad" players could be educated and trained the there wouldn't be any spread in skill and the problem would be gone.

 

For +/-1. I've played for almost five years and I've never had any problems with +/-2.

[redraven]

On 5/2/2020 at 7:18 PM, CptBarney said:

Gimped yorkie and ruddy subs in randoms and ranked.

Heard weegee even tested out guided missles at somepoint.

I dont want to scare you. but. May i direct yout attention to the EU T10 freexp DD for a moment?
Now go and look at its triple torps launcher. Do you notice anything?
What are those 2 V1 looking suckers on there? Im sorry but those look like guided cruise missles to me.

[Alsonleris01]

1 saat önce, Sunleader dedi:

 

So dont you think it would be better if instead of blocking each others Complaints and giving WG Excuses to not Fix anything at all whatsoever we should rather just both Complain about the Stuff we find Importand ?

Thank you for warning  me about the thing i am doing wrong.I am absolutely not trying to make a problem ignorable in the WGs perspective.I hate  the game being unbalanced,in terms of players or ships.

[Yedwy]

1 minute ago, redraven said:

I dont want to scare you. but. May i direct yout attention to the T10 freexp DD for a moment?
Now go and look at its triple torps launcher. Do you notice anything?
What are those 2 V1 looking suckers on there? Im sorry but those look like guided cruise missles to me.

I draw you attention to Halland turrets as well m8 notice those rails on the sides? You can have a guess as what was mounted there IRL ^^

 

BTW WG said repeatedly they dobt intend to do ASM bur then again same was said abut subs... 

[Alsonleris01]

28 dakika önce, Phayk dedi:

CVs probably. Idk, makes it impossible to get my friends into this game as well. Soon's we get to T4 they get annoyed by CVs and just don't want to play anymore.

I'm probably still playing because there's just no other game like this. It's like if there's only one sushi place in your city but they insist on serving it with Ketchup. Guess I got no choice if I really want sushi.

Oh yes,yes this is a real huge fricking problem here.Being even a single CV in a t4 match is so dumb because ship has no AA.When i am trying to invite my friends,they are like in tier 1-2"okay this game looks so good" when got t3-4 ships and starts to face CV they are like "why torps coming from sky i dont see and dd near" or "what is shooting me i got fires from nowhere" when i say them about the CVs and they have to get at least t6-7 they instantly quits game.

[redraven]

3 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

I draw you attention to Halland turrets as well m8 notice those rails on the sides? You can have a guess as what was mounted there IRL ^^

 

BTW WG said repeatedly they dobt intend to do ASM bur then again same was said abut subs... 

Which is exactly why i pointed it out. We know for a fact that anything WG promisses can be thrown into the trashcan and lit on fire.

[gabberworld]

14 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

For +/-1. I've played for almost five years and I've never had any problems with +/-2.

 

tells that who likes play co-op

 

this discussion is more like the random battles issue

[redraven]

On 5/5/2020 at 6:20 PM, BlackFish__ said:

 

7+1 And of course, the arrogance of Wargaming. They always know everything better while I suspect the don't even play their own game. Otherwise, they would not make those idiotic decisions.

 

 

 

They admitted as mutch during a livestream when talking about the PR disater. "uhm no i dont think any of us will get it. We have jobs and families" The [edited]audecity to state something like that.

[Capra76]

16 hours ago, Hanse77SWE said:

Why are players so bad?   Why won't they learn?

 

It's the game that WG have created, one that seeks to minimise skill and rewards players who are prepared to pay to progress to T10 even if their skill level is better suited to T4; in this regard we can hardly blame them for doing exactly what WG wants them to do.

[BrusilovX]

41 minutes ago, redraven said:

I dont want to scare you. but. May i direct yout attention to the T10 freexp DD for a moment?
Now go and look at its triple torps launcher. Do you notice anything?
What are those 2 V1 looking suckers on there? Im sorry but those look like guided cruise missles to me.

If you look at the Smalland there are two anti-ship missile on-board mounted over the rear torps.   This is not on the Halland.

[entar128]

I have a theory, might be long, and based on my own experience of the game since launch:

When the game was first released, there was more engaged and interested players playing, and the ratio "bad"* players vs "better" players was tipping more against the latter, and the latter carried the not so good players.

The game matured a bit, and the GE BB line was released, and I think an influx of players started. The GE BBs was more forgiving compared to the IJN and US battleships, mechanically impossible to citadel, and taught bad behaviors such as showing broadside didnt instadelete you. This is the moment in the game when I think it started to get worse.

The  game matured a bit more and the "lemming"-train started to be a favoured tactic, "bad" players vs "better" player ratio started to shift toward the former, but the "better" players could carry the team atleast a bit. CVs were on the decline, it was a novelty if you actually got a CV in the game. Speccing AA was a joke, as perhaps 1 in 10 or even 1 in 30 games had a CV. BBs still ruled supreme with 4-5 BBs per side, DDs was also plentiful with sometimes 4-5 DDs per side occasionally causing mass fratricide among the DDs. CA/CL was endangered getting preyed on by the BBs and DDs, BBs had mostly themselves to worry about. The lemming-train got more and more frequent, so did the "BB riding the A-line/10-line away from every concievable objective", plus if the BB was slinging HE.

The game matured more, UK BBs got released, causing a massive epidemic of BBs firing HE on everything... because... "hey, UK BBs did it, why shouldnt I do it in my Amagi..?". Lemming-training was present in almost every game leading to some comedic "one team chasing the other team counterclockwise around the map", think Two brothers and both teams going clockwise. Ratio "bad" players vs "better" players was shifting towards the former and now the "bad" player was getting to a majority, "better" players couldnt carry any longer, the games started to avalanche towards either side. More ships were released with... some times mixed results, and some times "WTF WG" results. CVs was almost extinct.

The CV-rework got released.  Lemming-train started to evolve, just as predicted by many on the forums, toward a blob. Every "whine" about CVs being to strong got knocked down with either "just dodge" or sail with a buddy/the team to augment your AA to survive. Players took the advice, and started to sail close together, forming the "blob". Flanking ships and ships relying on stealth got sniped by the CV or had their only strength stripped from them and stopping the enemy "blob" going on the other side with a couple of flanking ships was a suicidemission. Either the blob ate you, or the CV blapped you. "Bad" players was now in a large majority, and such the "blob" stopped when it met resistance because noone wanted to take a risk and get sunk. Thus the blob evolved to "blob-in-a-map-square"-tactic where the teams started to huddle up for security in a single map-square. Wander outside of this blob, and you got mercilessly gunned/bombed/torpedoed back to shipselection with a hefty amount of reports. Somewhere here even more ridiculous ships got released (read: RU BB-line). 

More of the dedicated/engaged and interested players lost interest and here we are, the poor team that flounders in its advance or get led by a timid BB player (led, like, the BB being infront dictates the pacing, not commanded by) gets trapped. Control has been stripped from players, you cant influence the game in the same way as before, but you rely on the other 11 players in the team, and you have to rely on the group psychology of the group. If the lead BB breaks away, the whole team will probably break and huddle together. CVs encourages this, especially with the "counter" to CV which is to huddle up. I think even more "better" players stopped playing, and the few left had less ways to influence the game in a meaningful way. It is possible, but with an effort that isnt warrented by a game I play as a hobby to wind down from my work.
Sidenote: I see the CVs as an enviroment hazard, which if I am honest, is really degrading to the good CV-players, but... if there is a threat I cannot do anything meaningful about and if I try to do it I will be placed in an even worse position... what else to view it as?

Now, add submarines to this. It will not enhance the game. The blob might evolve even further, and I predict the "blob-in-square" will probably evolve into "blob-by-border" or similar. The sense of control will evaporate when target-seeking torpedoes from invisible boats slam into the lead BB, stripping half of the HP of the ship. What will this do with an already fragile/volitile group of players in the team? I think it will break the group even harder, and the small amount of control left players are feeling after the CV-rework will disappear. Surfaceships will be targets for CVs and subs.

Do I think the game is on its last gasps..?
Before the CV-rework I would have said "no way, the game is going strong"
Now?
I honestly dont know. But, hey, I am just a player writing on the forum presenting his own theory of a game I have played for almost five years and which I enjoyed to play, and want to enjoy to play again... so what do I really know?

Its a long post, ranty post, but I write it out of frustration of a game I enjoyed and in a niché I have dreamt of since I started playing games (yeah, I know, I am a sad dude...) is going the wrong way.
Also, my english is probably not perfect... not my first language.

* Note, bad players might also be players not playing the objective, badly educated players, players not so invested in the gameplay and so on, you get the jest.

[Capra76]

5 minutes ago, entar128 said:

The game matured a bit, and the GE BB line was released, and I think an influx of players started. The GE BBs was more forgiving compared to the IJN and US battleships, mechanically impossible to citadel, and taught bad behaviors such as showing broadside didnt instadelete you. This is the moment in the game when I think it started to get worse.

 

My personal theory is that it started to go downhill with the IJN DD rework; the old Isokaze/Minekaze acted as a kind of skill check that forced BB players to learn at least something about the game before they progressed to the higher tiers, with that removed even the most learning resistant BB players were free to straight line all the way to T10.

 

Otherwise I agree with everything you said.

[Hanse77SWE]

24 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

It's the game that WG have created, one that seeks to minimise skill and rewards players who are prepared to pay to progress to T10 even if their skill level is better suited to T4; in this regard we can hardly blame them for doing exactly what WG wants them to do.

Exactly!

 

Why hasn't WG done anything to educate the players? This comes back to bite them in the *** now when players start to leave the game due to the uneducated playerbase. Some leave because they don't understand the game, others because other players doesn't understand the game.

 

As I said in my first post on this topic: "Failure to teach the playerbase what the game is and how it works. "

[BrusilovX]

14 minutes ago, entar128 said:

Now, add submarines to this. It will not enhance the game.

I think they will be the death knell of WoWS - either that or WoWS becomes WoSs as everyone plays subs.

[Capra76]

26 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

Why hasn't WG done anything to educate the players?

 

I would suggest that's actually the exact opposite of what WG wants, unskilled uneducated players are likely where the real money is.

 

The business model revolves around the myth that you need to progress to tier 10 to succeed and selling all sorts of boosters to get there as quickly as possible.  On top of that you have the next line of ships that powercreeps everything else and the must have premiums that will "make you a better player" and that's how WG make their money.

 

It's much easier to sell that to bad players, they will fail at every tier and being bad they will blame the ship rather than themselves making them suckers for every money making trick WG has to offer.

 

Good players can have fun at any tier and are happy to grind at their own pace, it's much harder to convince them that they need a better ship and thus they are much harder customers to sell to.

[Hades_warrior]

Short answers why I quit 2 years ago:
- Terrible quality of battles on TX battles (now on return I see that situation is even much worse)

- CV rework that make 3 CV's per team into TX which is dumb

[LavyDunois]

 

Matchmaking like this. It used to be every couple of games. These days its the norm. One sided stompfests 9 out of 10 games...

I'd rather lose a well balanced game then winning this garbage.

 

And CV's ofcourse... Remove spotting from planes and only show enemy ship location on the minimap like the first seconds on radar...

[SirAmra]

Subs in random

[LePotat]

Am I the only one noticing something is really wrong with this picture? Sorry for non-english descriptions there, but it's clear enough anyway.

[Bratoev]

WG does nothing to educate players, also WG: 

 

I'd consider quitting if the game was anything like what is described on these forums.

[Hanse77SWE]

2 minutes ago, Bratoev said:

WG does nothing to educate players, also WG: 

I'd consider quitting if the game was anything like what is described on these forums.

The problem is that this is done on a third party website and not ingame. Many players doesn't follow a CC or WoWs YT. It's also easier to learn "hands on". Imagine taking your driving license just by watching YT-vids.

 

Teaching needs to be intergrated into the game itself.