CB ratings, expressing perfectly our feelings about CVs

[Erik_Aukan]

3 hours ago, DxN69 said:

Are you small kid or something? First of all, the big clans are still there, no sudden underdogs appeared. Secondly, it is like you play soccer for Steaua Bucharest and suddenly Barcelona is making you an offer. You do not hesitate, you go directly. If any big clan doesn't already have a good cv player, it would be extremely easy to recruit one. Most will be thrilled, enchanted and honored to be a member of a Clan that is well known in international competitions. Grow up.

Did I hit a nerve there? You think you actually are something because of purple clan tag? 

Yes, a clan will probably get a good CV captain if they want to, but there is the no-CV mentality of some players, raving and raging about how it can't be countered (eh... use your AA?) and how bad it is for their precious, camping Stalingrads and Kremlins. Can this be the reason? camping players who get their e-peen hurt when "lesser players" are able to actually hit and hurt them. 

Wonder how it will be with submarines.

I think we are heading for a more dynamic meta when stationary ships are being punished for camping. 
Seems like there is something rotten going on with the anti-CV mafia after all. 

 

There are people here speaking about how impossible it is to deal with CVs, still you see lots of YouTube videos with 50+ plane kills, 200k damage bragging about how they mutilated that CV with their AA. The class most vulnerable to massive damage by a CV is a BB, then in some cases cruisers, but they are certainly not defenceless or easy to hit if they maneuver.

DDs in the current clan battle meta or random face radar cruisers, other DDs (some with radar/ hydro) in addition to CVs. This is downplayed because the owners of those ships are the same CV haters, who want to sit behind a rock spamming HE and radar DDs all day. 

I have seen complaints about the stalingrads weak AA in a post, lol! Yes, WEAK.

[Miragetank90]

@Yoshanai The problem is you opened with this line immediately following the thread title and picture:

 

On 5/2/2020 at 3:13 PM, Yoshanai said:

Yes truly pitiful isn't it? 

 

Which could imply that you think the idea that they changed their names as a protest is pitiful. So it's natural people got confused(and mad, I guess)

The rest of your opening post is also not clear on the subjects, especially if they misinterpreted the subject of your first line. 

 

Which lead to all this.

 

I feel like I'm doing this kind of thing a lot lately. 

[loppantorkel]

3 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Sigh.... 

 

Actually Someone else got it Before Me. But didnt bother Pointing it out and instead just told Yosha off on it.

But thats a Different Story.

 

See Mate. Your a Good example why I usually write a Wall of Text when Explaining things. Because me making only Short Posts Leads to People just keep Interpreting things themselves and jumping to Conclusions.

Because the Problem here is that you have a Fundamental Misunderstanding here that is likely caused by you Seeing that Yosha and me are from the Same Clan and thus Assuming that we must be on the Same side of the Discussion.

 

For your Information. Yosha and I heavily Disagree on CV Issues. So inside CV Topics we are usually Found on Opposite Sides of the Argument.

(Thats also why I earlier Pinged Yosha about you thinking that I am on the same side as him in the Argument. Cause its a quite hilarious Idea on this and anyone who pays even slight attention to CV Topics actually knows that.)

 

And that Deeper Insight you keep Talking about seems to be a Simple case of Butthurt about some People in our Clan being Mods. And whatever Funny Theory you have about this leading to some Big Secret Plan of World Domination.

So Sorry. But I dont care.

 

 

I do care about you Misunderstanding the Point tough. (Even tough its quite Hilarious to Watch for those who understood it) So I will try to Explain it to you in Detail.

 

1.

The Topics Original Point was a Showcase that alot of Old and very Good WoWs Clans are making Clear that they do not think CVs should be Part of Clanbattles and that CVs are Currently Broken and Unbalanced and thus not Valid for Competetive Gameplay.

2.

Now Yosha tried to do 2 Points when Answering that.

A: That the Clans that Changed their Name are just a few. And thus do not Represent a Majority.

and B: That Clans which are now Complaining about CVs in Competetive Play are not doing so because CVs are Broken and Overpowered but just because they themselves Failed to Recruit proper CV Players and thus now ended up Losing against Clans that they would Normaly Wipe the Floor with easily.

3.

Now for us here. Point B is the one thats most Interesting. Because his Point B Implies 2 Major things Relevant to this Discussion.

A: That the other Competetive Clans which did not Change their Names would not have a Problem with the Current Situation of CVs.

And B: That the Clans currently Complaining about CVs in Competetive Modes do not actually think that CVs are Broken and Overpowered but are just Annoyed that they Failed to prepare properly and now want CVs out of Competetive Modes as the Good CV Players they would need to remain Strong there are already Recruited by others leaving them with a Disadvantage.

4.

During that Discussion Yosha also made a Statement that These Clans are now Screwed because they Failed to Recruit Top CV Players and thus have Trouble staying Competetive which is why they are Crying like that.

5.

And thats where I come in. Because I was Sitting here Reading this stuff. And tought to myself that this is an Extremely Obvious Fallacy.

Because if CVs are not Broken and Overpowered. Why Should Competetive Clans be Angry that they Failed to Recruit the Good CV Players. And why would this cause them to Lose Against Clans that are Normally not on their Level.

Why would a CV be Forcibly Required to Stay Competetive if its Balanced with the other Classes ?

But instead of Pointing this out and getting back to the Topic of CVs being Broken and Unbalanced causing Clans to Campaign against it.

Everyone Instead just Decided to Challenge Yoshas Claim that the Clans have some Ulterior Motive and Argue about the Clans Motives instead of the Topic.

Only 1 Person Realized this and just Told Yosha off on it. Not that it really mattered because the rest of the People just kept going for Yosha instead of Realizing that the Wild Goose Chase they are on.

6.

Hence my Comment in light astonishment as to how Blind People can become to Simple Fallacies when they are Focused more on the Person they are trying to beat than at the Topic they are Trying to Beat that Person in.

Because Yoshas Point basicly does not even Exist unless CVs are Broken and Overpowered.

7.

After my Comment. Quite a few People actually Realized it themselves. But I guess you have some Real Beef with our Clan. Because instead of just taking my Hint and just using Yoshas Point against him. And thus Finally Returning to Discussing the Fact that CVs are Overpowered and Broken. You now seem to have come Up with the Idea that this somehow some sort of Clan Project where we are Trying prevent CV Discussion about CBs or something.

Which is Hilarious as well by the way ^^. Because your Accusing us of trying to Bury this Topic till it can be Closed. Yet your the one who Refuses to let it go back on Topic :)

 

 

So.

Wall of Text Completed.

Sorry for those who Understood beforehand already.

But maybe that also Shows why I sometimes have to Write a Wall of Text and Explain things Step by Step.

Oh dear

 

I feel I should quit this topic before I get warned or worse. So many things come to mind.

 

Try learn something from this Sunleader...

 

1. Yosha replies first in the thread by implying a very selfish and low reason for the clans' name change. Nothing was said before this why these clans had their names changed (not even the apparent reason - that cvs are broken). Yosha explains his theory that these clans merely are motivated by self interest to not lose ground to other clans who presumably have better cv players.

 

2. That this also implies cvs are broken (or OP, which I know you and Yosha have been on different sides of the argument before) does not matter a f***ing bit.

 

3. You defend Yosha's argument by claiming no one understand him. His opening post is obviously clear.

 

4. You claim people are making all the wrong assumptions while you are doing the exact same thing about other people.

[Lootboxer]

Guys do you realise that Yosha is trolling you again? When will you stop falling for it? 

[Sunleader]

35 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Oh dear

 

I feel I should quit this topic before I get warned or worse. So many things come to mind.

 

Try learn something from this Sunleader...

 

1. Yosha replies first in the thread by implying a very selfish and low reason for the clans' name change. Nothing was said before this why these clans had their names changed (not even the apparent reason - that cvs are broken). Yosha explains his theory that these clans merely are motivated by self interest to not lose ground to other clans who presumably have better cv players.

 

2. That this also implies cvs are broken (or OP, which I know you and Yosha have been on different sides of the argument before) does not matter a f***ing bit.

 

3. You defend Yosha's argument by claiming no one understand him. His opening post is obviously clear.

 

4. You claim people are making all the wrong assumptions while you are doing the exact same thing about other people.

 

lol

 

Not sure what made you so Butthurt about our Clan. But oh well.

And well. So far the only thing I learn is that your really trying hard to provoke me and get pretty annoyed when I am not reacting the way you want me to :)

 

1.

Thats a Fallacy. The Opening Post clearly made Implications here. You Ignoring that is quite Hyporcritical when you yourself claim so much Implication in other Peoples Posts.

2.

Thats not for you to Decide lol.

3.

So by Undermining his Argument I am Defending his Argument ? Thats some Nice Logic there :)

4.

Wont Deny that :) I dont have any Holes in my Hands last Time I checked. So I assume I am not Jesus and therefore not Unfaillable ^^ Difference is. Unlike you who even after your Interpretion has been Denied keeps claiming that this is how it would be. I try to look at it from a different Angle ;)

[DxN69]

1 hour ago, Erik_Aukan said:

Did I hit a nerve there? You think you actually are something because of purple clan tag? 

Yes, a clan will probably get a good CV captain if they want to, but there is the no-CV mentality of some players, raving and raging about how it can't be countered (eh... use your AA?) and how bad it is for their precious, camping Stalingrads and Kremlins. Can this be the reason? camping players who get their e-peen hurt when "lesser players" are able to actually hit and hurt them. 

Wonder how it will be with submarines.

I think we are heading for a more dynamic meta when stationary ships are being punished for camping. 
Seems like there is something rotten going on with the anti-CV mafia after all. 

 

There are people here speaking about how impossible it is to deal with CVs, still you see lots of YouTube videos with 50+ plane kills, 200k damage bragging about how they mutilated that CV with their AA. The class most vulnerable to massive damage by a CV is a BB, then in some cases cruisers, but they are certainly not defenceless or easy to hit if they maneuver.

DDs in the current clan battle meta or random face radar cruisers, other DDs (some with radar/ hydro) in addition to CVs. This is downplayed because the owners of those ships are the same CV haters, who want to sit behind a rock spamming HE and radar DDs all day. 

I have seen complaints about the stalingrads weak AA in a post, lol! Yes, WEAK.

So you have NO idea how to play CV, but you are emitting opinions...  My kids are doing the same, have no idea of life, but they already "know everything", but just for fun, let's dissect your hallucinations:
1) "use your AA":
- As a DD, you are doomed regardless of your AA; this is why DDs are almost extinct in higher leagues, but probably if you play in Gale or Storm...
- A good CV player will spot all your ships OUTSIDE your AA range, so PLEASE, use your AA in this case and let us know how you did it
2) "camping players who get their e-peen hurt when "lesser players" are able to actually hit and hurt them." - Really? This almost doesn't deserve any kind of an answer... I've seen SO MANY noobs nowadays that can't hit a broadside from 7 km away, that your attempt of argumentation is rather pathetic
3) "stationary ships are being punished for camping" - Let's just get this straight, if you do not bunch together like a herd of sheep, do you really want to say that an isolated cruiser has better chances against a good CV if he moves? Do you really think a moving cruiser will make a difference for a good CV player? You are just SO very wrong!!! I do not remember the name of the youtuber cv player that citadel me 5 times in 3 passes while I was frantically moving right, left, changing speeds and direction just attempting unsuccessfully to break his aim.
4) "you see lots of YouTube videos with 50+ plane kills, 200k damage bragging about how they mutilated that CV with their AA" - So you bring as arguments on the table some Youtube videos about noob CV players??? These are your "arguments", bad CV players from Random?

Really, just finish your high-school and come back later.

[AndyHill]

If Stalins and Venezias were banned, the teams would probably be Henris with some Moskva thrown in. Or whatever is the next best long range damage dealer.

 

It is true that in this meta only long range firepower matters, because concealment is gone in carrier games and when concealment is gone, so are most of tactical possibilities in the game. Same holds true for randoms. Venezia and Stalin have nothing to do with it, it's all about carriers making the game a completely one dimensional shooting competition. If those two ships were gone people would simply complain about other ships considered op in the one dimensional meta.

 

When a meta is completely one dimensional there is almost by necessity one or two units that fit the meta so as to become op (not that I'm saying that Stalin or Venezia are not op, but they're not quite as hilariously broken in a more diverse meta), because the meta enforces their strong points (in this case long range blabbage) and mitigates their weaknesses (concealment).

[loppantorkel]

44 minutes ago, DariusJacek said:

Guys do you realise that Yosha is trolling you again? When will you stop falling for it? 

I was just slightly annoyed but decided get into the argument when Sunleader started defending the trolling.

28 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

lol

 

Not sure what made you so Butthurt about our Clan. But oh well.

And well. So far the only thing I learn is that your really trying hard to provoke me and get pretty annoyed when I am not reacting the way you want me to :)

 

1.

Thats a Fallacy. The Opening Post clearly made Implications here. You Ignoring that is quite Hyporcritical when you yourself claim so much Implication in other Peoples Posts.

2.

Thats not for you to Decide lol.

3.

So by Undermining his Argument I am Defending his Argument ? Thats some Nice Logic there :)

4.

Wont Deny that :) I dont have any Holes in my Hands last Time I checked. So I assume I am not Jesus and therefore not Unfaillable ^^ Difference is. Unlike you who even after your Interpretion has been Denied keeps claiming that this is how it would be. I try to look at it from a different Angle ;)

I don't care about your clan. It seems fine. Just funny how you're okay when a clan member starts throwing shade on other clans, how you starts defending it. I did exactly the same toward you and your clan and you got butthurt about it. Hypocritical much? Yea... funny how you miss those convenient things when you're soo perceptive elsewhere....

 

1. The opening post made what implications? Yosha jumped the gun when he started theorizing.

 

2. Well, it's obvious. I know it undermines your whole argument. It was a weak one to start with. You believe that the attack on the other clans was okay because of the implications of the argument. It's not. It's just a crappy way to derail a thread.

 

3. Undermining an argument that hadn't been brought up yet... sure. You just tried to cover up a thinly veiled attack on some clans' motives. It wasn't worth my time to start with, but the whole 'emperor's new clothes' argument you brought tickled me the wrong way.

[Resolutlon]

Well to be fair I am not the most experienced of players to be participating in this conversation, but the way I see it is, people hate change, they like to sit nose in tanking BB shells in their Stalingrads all day long and CV forces you to stop sitting nose in, and most of all forces you to stay in a bunch. The positive side of introducing CVs into CB would be it prevents Same old Boring Bow tanking Stationary meta, and the Downside would be any sort of Flanking and creating Crossfire gets punished.

 

The thing is CV into competitive, changes a lot of tactics and playstyles, and personally I welcome that change. The Reason Dota and League Competitive shine because the meta always shifts, I know its not the best of comparisons, but it's what makes a competitive game fun to watch, when I see KOTS for example I see DesMoines parking behind islands near the caps and Stalins and bbs Creating Crossfires across the map. It has become pretty boring to me at least. Then again its purely my POV.

[El2aZeR]

2 hours ago, Erik_Aukan said:

(eh... use your AA?)

 

I would like to know how you can "use" your AA when AA is completely automated and only the CV is in control over how it behaves.

 

2 hours ago, Erik_Aukan said:

I think we are heading for a more dynamic meta when stationary ships are being punished for camping.

 

Again, pretty much everyone in the top leagues is saying that the meta has become more stale and static, giving matches as well as the viable team lineups to back that up. You have given no evidence to the contrary.

 

2 hours ago, Erik_Aukan said:

There are people here speaking about how impossible it is to deal with CVs, still you see lots of YouTube videos with 50+ plane kills, 200k damage bragging about how they mutilated that CV with their AA.

 

Again, plane kills are completely irrelevant due to it not separating kills on fighters and strike planes as well as being dependent on the skill of the CV player.

I can also show you several 200k+ damage matches in rework CVs if you'd like where the CV in question has lost a completely irrelevant amount of planes. I fail to see the relevance.

 

2 hours ago, Erik_Aukan said:

I have seen complaints about the stalingrads weak AA in a post, lol! Yes, WEAK.

 

Stalingrad has a lot less AA than a Cleve. And Cleve isn't a very strong AA ship after the rework to say the least.

How about you educate yourself on what you're talking about before spreading your ludicrous ignorance?

[AndyHill]

35 minutes ago, Resolutlon said:

The positive side of introducing CVs into CB would be it prevents Same old Boring Bow tanking Stationary meta

Except that it doesn't. Bow tanking still happens and the meta does not appear more mobile than before. Carrier's DPM still isn't as high as the rest of the team's, so in many cases you're better off taking cover from them, preferably next to an island or some other obstruction.

 

Also, nose tanking isn't the wonderous, invincible tactic so many people seem to think it is. Nose tanking is useful in certain ships, when you can use islands to get closer to the frontlines. A ship maneuvering freely in the open will usually wreck a nose tanker, because he is a harder target to hit whereas you can hardly miss a stationary ship.

 

Furthermore, nose tanking next to islands isn't even a very defensive or passive tactic to begin with. If that island doesn't exist, but the situation is otherwise the same, that nose tanker ship is now 5-10km further back with his rear towards the enemy - because that's the actual safe position and the only thing you can do without overextending unless there is suitable cover to use.

 

This is also why we see Stalins and Venezias, they can do their thing without ever having to get close to the enemy. No ambushes, no skirting on the edge of concealment, no sneaky flanks, just a two-way shooting competition between two fleets. Nose tanking still exists and if it didn't, it would just be replaced by butt tanking further away from the enemy lines.

[Yedwy]

3 hours ago, Erik_Aukan said:

Wonder how it will be with submarines.

 

I think we are heading for a more dynamic meta when stationary ships are being punished for camping.

 

I have seen complaints about the stalingrads weak AA in a post, lol! Yes, WEAK.

Subs (such as they are now) will just add another layer of broken, lets not forget its another class basically removed from normal player vs player interaction as when submerged your only weapon against them is depth charges that are semi-automated and laregly RNG dependant from surface ships POV and that is even without going into the fact only DDs and CLs carry them in the first place...

 

But the camping is NOT punished, actually its more important then ever as you need not only to camp but to camp in GROUPS, moving ship in comparison to a stationary is marginally more difficult to hit with bombs, equally hitabble with rockets and actually (for the most part) even easyier to hit with torps as your movement in next few seconds is easy to predict due to inertia, apart from few DDs no surface ship can even hope to dodge a torp strike, you can mitigate damage from a CV a bit and thats all, your only defence is blobing up so you "deplain" the CV but in 7 vs 7 he only needs to kill one or two ships and its over ans all T10 CVs have more then enough planes for that

 

Stalin actually has a pretty mediocre AA overall and for T10 ship you could even call it crap, Stalin by itself has no way of preventing the annihilating strike from say Haku, even I can do it easily and I am realky crap in CVs... 

[mcboernester]

1 hour ago, AndyHill said:

If Stalins and Venezias were banned, the teams would probably be Henris with some Moskva thrown in. Or whatever is the next best long range damage dealer.

  

It is true that in this meta only long range firepower matters, because concealment is gone in carrier games and when concealment is gone, so are most of tactical possibilities in the game. Same holds true for randoms. Venezia and Stalin have nothing to do with it, it's all about carriers making the game a completely one dimensional shooting competition. If those two ships were gone people would simply complain about other ships considered op in the one dimensional meta.

 

When a meta is completely one dimensional there is almost by necessity one or two units that fit the meta so as to become op (not that I'm saying that Stalin or Venezia are not op, but they're not quite as hilariously broken in a more diverse meta), because the meta enforces their strong points (in this case long range blabbage) and mitigates their weaknesses (concealment).

  

Pretty much yeah. It's not the "crazy op design" that makes those stalin and venezia setups work, its the permaspotting of the carrier. Obviously ships with bad concealment and / or the inhability to bring enough utility to the table profit the most from it. 

 

For reasons i cannot understand none of the ST changes for spotting mechanics where implemented on the live server so yeah, who could have seen that coming right? It's not like ppl are stating those rather obvious issues since over a year now. In the past 8 Seasons the meta has never been as dull as this. Lineups consider out of 3 ships 95% of the time:

 

Hakuryu

Venezia

Stalingrad

 

The next Question would be: How will WG handle this? Nerf CVs? Nerf the mentioned ships? Nerf spotting in general? I expect they will rather state " CV huge success" and refer to player numbers, regardless of the COVID 19 Lockdown and more then double the player numbers we had in march. We also didnt receive any post season Ship numbers since Season 6, so most likely nobody will ever know how bad it really was. 

 

[El2aZeR]

1 minute ago, mcboernester said:

How will WG handle this? Nerf CVs? Nerf the mentioned ships? Nerf spotting in general?

 

Apparently WG is testing something in regards to CV spotting according to the discord Q&A.

[Bear__Necessities]

3 hours ago, Steel_duck_1 said:

Please rename the thread THESO vs angry mob 

It's more like people are just annoyed at others who admit that "CV's are broken" but come on the forum anyway to "farm salt" and do it regularly. 

[AndyHill]

35 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Apparently WG is testing something in regards to CV spotting according to the discord Q&A.

Ok what a sigh of relief, everything is as good as fixed already, then.

[ForlornSailor]

28 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

It's more like people are just annoyed at others who admit that "CV's are broken" but come on the forum anyway to "farm salt" and do it regularly. 

...and actually think they are smart doing so :)

[GarrusBrutus]

3 hours ago, Erik_Aukan said:

I think we are heading for a more dynamic meta when stationary ships are being punished for camping. 

Have you actually played a few "dynamic" clanbattles yourself this season or no?

 

Because...

↓

1 hour ago, AndyHill said:

This is also why we see Stalins and Venezias, they can do their thing without ever having to get close to the enemy. No ambushes, no skirting on the edge of concealment, no sneaky flanks, just a two-way shooting competition between two fleets.

Si si muy dynamico meta. I've never experienced such an dynamic meta since the start of clanbattles. /s

[Captaindanz]

4 hours ago, Erik_Aukan said:

Did I hit a nerve there? You think you actually are something because of purple clan tag? 

Yes, a clan will probably get a good CV captain if they want to, but there is the no-CV mentality of some players, raving and raging about how it can't be countered (eh... use your AA?) and how bad it is for their precious, camping Stalingrads and Kremlins. Can this be the reason? camping players who get their e-peen hurt when "lesser players" are able to actually hit and hurt them. 

Wonder how it will be with submarines.

I think we are heading for a more dynamic meta when stationary ships are being punished for camping. 
Seems like there is something rotten going on with the anti-CV mafia after all. 

 

There are people here speaking about how impossible it is to deal with CVs, still you see lots of YouTube videos with 50+ plane kills, 200k damage bragging about how they mutilated that CV with their AA. The class most vulnerable to massive damage by a CV is a BB, then in some cases cruisers, but they are certainly not defenceless or easy to hit if they maneuver.

DDs in the current clan battle meta or random face radar cruisers, other DDs (some with radar/ hydro) in addition to CVs. This is downplayed because the owners of those ships are the same CV haters, who want to sit behind a rock spamming HE and radar DDs all day. 

I have seen complaints about the stalingrads weak AA in a post, lol! Yes, WEAK.

If a cv captain knows how to dodge flak those stats are useless, so yeah i can understand why people feel like stalin has terrible aa.

Yes games are so exciting right now, venezias and stalins are being forced to go back to the A line. exciting.

[Captaindanz]

When you get chased by a dd you just ask your friendly dd to spot him, if you get chased by a cv you just start praying. 

[Miragetank90]

2 hours ago, AndyHill said:

If Stalins and Venezias were banned, the teams would probably be Henris with some Moskva thrown in. Or whatever is the next best long range damage dealer.

 

It is true that in this meta only long range firepower matters, because concealment is gone in carrier games and when concealment is gone, so are most of tactical possibilities in the game. Same holds true for randoms. Venezia and Stalin have nothing to do with it, it's all about carriers making the game a completely one dimensional shooting competition. If those two ships were gone people would simply complain about other ships considered op in the one dimensional meta.

 

When a meta is completely one dimensional there is almost by necessity one or two units that fit the meta so as to become op (not that I'm saying that Stalin or Venezia are not op, but they're not quite as hilariously broken in a more diverse meta), because the meta enforces their strong points (in this case long range blabbage) and mitigates their weaknesses (concealment).

 

Yes. I think you're pretty much on point here.  

 

1 hour ago, mcboernester said:

The next Question would be: How will WG handle this? 

 

Spotting is what needs to change, I think. At least they recognise that, according to the QnA. 

 

Not sure what they are testing or what changes they will or could make though. 

[ApesTogetherStronK]

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Apparently WG is testing something in regards to CV spotting according to the discord Q&A.

 

Most of the Scrubs have agreed that CV's need to be able to spot only for themselves (with ships only appearing on the minimap for other players) and that limited reserves need to return, those two changes alone would fix a lot of the issues. Proper fighter vs fighter gameplay also needs to comeback as well. Not sure what WG is doing but if it turns out to be that then good. 

As for the 'skillgap' argument Wargaming used back then as to why they essentially removed proper fighters. Put simply, eff off. Every class has skillgap, the game has skillgap, it's a multiplayer game, that is never going to go away, ever. Trying to make it do so only messes up balance. 

[Erik_Aukan]

3 hours ago, DxN69 said:

So you have NO idea how to play CV, but you are emitting opinions...  My kids are doing the same, have no idea of life, but they already "know everything", but just for fun, let's dissect your hallucinations:
1) "use your AA":
- As a DD, you are doomed regardless of your AA; this is why DDs are almost extinct in higher leagues, but probably if you play in Gale or Storm...
- A good CV player will spot all your ships OUTSIDE your AA range, so PLEASE, use your AA in this case and let us know how you did it
2) "camping players who get their e-peen hurt when "lesser players" are able to actually hit and hurt them." - Really? This almost doesn't deserve any kind of an answer... I've seen SO MANY noobs nowadays that can't hit a broadside from 7 km away, that your attempt of argumentation is rather pathetic
3) "stationary ships are being punished for camping" - Let's just get this straight, if you do not bunch together like a herd of sheep, do you really want to say that an isolated cruiser has better chances against a good CV if he moves? Do you really think a moving cruiser will make a difference for a good CV player? You are just SO very wrong!!! I do not remember the name of the youtuber cv player that citadel me 5 times in 3 passes while I was frantically moving right, left, changing speeds and direction just attempting unsuccessfully to break his aim.
4) "you see lots of YouTube videos with 50+ plane kills, 200k damage bragging about how they mutilated that CV with their AA" - So you bring as arguments on the table some Youtube videos about noob CV players??? These are your "arguments", bad CV players from Random?

Really, just finish your high-school and come back later.

You are asking me about apparently not having an idea about playing CV?? Have you played CV lately?? no? 

1. Spotting is not really an issue outsite a DDs AA range, unless the DD is spotted from firing anyways. A CV will have trouble finding you if you choose to go dark. Sitting and blasting guns and AA in an exposed position will get you killed  with or without a CV. I have a kinda idea on both playing a CV and a DD. If your AA is bad, turn it off, if it's good, turn it off and activate when CV overflies you. He'll either waste a lot of his planes, or he returns to CV. It is just as unlikely you are unscaved from a determined CV attack, but against which ship don't you get fire in return?

 

CVs have changed in just about every patch, but people still bring up things that went away a year ago. Proving they don't play CV regularily 

 

2. I wasn't talking about noobs, but opposite players. If you always expect to wtfpwn everything, there's a reality check for you. CVs are apparently your weakness.

3. Someone in a CV killed you, probably a good player. I'm not ranting about how OP every other ship is, but some like to do this, even put it on Youtube.

4. They might be bad, but it proves that AA can shoot down planes, even in great numbers. Good players, however, are not immune to get planes shot down, they trade in another way, but strong AA is still strong, you work around it.

[Sunleader]

3 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

I was just slightly annoyed but decided get into the argument when Sunleader started defending the trolling.

I don't care about your clan. It seems fine. Just funny how you're okay when a clan member starts throwing shade on other clans, how you starts defending it. I did exactly the same toward you and your clan and you got butthurt about it. Hypocritical much? Yea... funny how you miss those convenient things when you're soo perceptive elsewhere....

 

1. The opening post made what implications? Yosha jumped the gun when he started theorizing.

 

2. Well, it's obvious. I know it undermines your whole argument. It was a weak one to start with. You believe that the attack on the other clans was okay because of the implications of the argument. It's not. It's just a crappy way to derail a thread.

 

3. Undermining an argument that hadn't been brought up yet... sure. You just tried to cover up a thinly veiled attack on some clans' motives. It wasn't worth my time to start with, but the whole 'emperor's new clothes' argument you brought tickled me the wrong way.

 

So you got no Problem with our Clan but you got a Problem with our Clan because Yosha said something that hurt your Feelings. Sounds Logical.

And because of these Hurt Feelings you then just decided to make up some accusations about our Clan to Avenge your Hurt Pride.

Well at least you Admit it I guess.

 

1.

Mate.....

Anyone reading the Topic Title alone can see what the OP Implied here.....

2.

Thats an E for you. Sit Down and Try again next Week.

3.

You have a very Colorful Fantasy my Friend.

Could I maybe Interest you in some Flat Earth Theories ?

I think they would be quite up your alley.

 

[poopooo]

I have returned to the game after a long time, when I left the CVs had the old attack mode, now I came back to play a little and I have been trying in new CV mode. I must admit that at the beginning it seemed like rubbish already that I saw useless CVs, but after playing about 20 games, I more or less defended myself.
For me the difference is that before the CVs acted as an attack ship, you fought with the enemy CV and later you attacked the enemy ships causing serious damage to sink them. Instead now I see the CVs as support bases, I use them to wear down ships so that comrades can fight them with advantage, for example with fighters help DDs against enemy DDs, and with torpedo bombers and bombers against mainly BB.On several occasions when I have fought to sink ships it has been impossible for me to do it, since as you cause much less damage than in the old way you cannot focus on a single ship, apart from the fact that as soon as you see planes it is easy to avoid them.

The biggest difference between the old mode and the new mode is that ships have it easier to avoid torpedo and bomb attacks, put what against any enemy that looks at the map you will not be able to do much damage, all that added because ship torpedoes do less damage.

For me personally I do not see the OP CVs, I see them somewhat more balanced than before and they are not a key factor in the game, they are a support for the other ships, because a CV alone does nothing, apart from the AA weapons of the ships are much more effective than before, now attacking two destroyers something together represents losing almost all the planes in the platoon.

For all this, if I were asked what to balance of the CV, I would not know how to balance, for example it would balance the BB and the extreme damage to the citadels of the cruises, which seems more unbalanced to die of two shots at 15km while standing or [edited]5 minutes after departure, but I don't see anyone complaining about that, how strange.