What is the point?

[Blechhaube]

8 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

Look, I am willing to do an experiment with anyone: we division for like 1 week so I can see all your chat, we try our best to play well and we compare your karma at the start of the week with karma at the end.

:D No need. I tend to get the most Karma points during ranked battles for good play. and I lose karma points for venting in chat. just as you described. I make another preassumption: you get less positive karma points in random battles due to players leaving the match before the end, or not having the knowledge to distinguish a good player from the bad.  I have got no database to work with, I've got nothing but my preassumptions :P. Might be wrong or might be only partly right. :)

[ImTryingButYouDontHelp]

Karma is a psychological tool, a kind of placebo. It only makes you feel better, thinking you "gave what he/she deserved" to another player, when the truth is that it has zero influence in anything. So, Karma is useless, because zero Karma doesn't ban you to do anything, and 5K Karma doesn't give you anything. 

[bratisla_boy]

Il y a 22 minutes, Miblogdegolf a dit :

So, Karma is useless, because zero Karma doesn't ban you to do anything, and 5K Karma doesn't give you anything. 

Karma increase/decrease is useful for WG and the community, in the sense that people rageclicking "report for bad play" *tend* (I know this is not true everytime, but let's say quite often) not to pollute the chat with their salt. It keeps the chat a bit cleaner. It allows WG to commit less ressources to chat monitoring. The karma value itself is of course useless, as you stated.

 

/edit yeah you said basically this, sorry. I'll keep this message, though, but my apologies for the inconvenience

[NosferatuFIN]

Karma is stupid. When I play a DD with a 55-60% winrate, I always get compliments. When I do the same in Smolensk, I get reported and karma goes to zero. Good stuff.

[ImTryingButYouDontHelp]

59 minutes ago, NosferatuFIN said:

Karma is stupid. When I play a DD with a 55-60% winrate, I always get compliments. When I do the same in Smolensk, I get reported and karma goes to zero. Good stuff.

Some people will even report you for playing well against them, forgetting there's a "worthy adversary" (or so) to use.

[bratisla_boy]

Il y a 1 heure, Miblogdegolf a dit :

Some people will even report you for playing well against them, forgetting there's a "worthy adversary" (or so) to use.

"- How DARED YOU launch torpedoes and do damage against helpless BBs !!!111!!!!

- Dude, you were straight sailing in group ... 

- OMGH4CKZ0R ! Repooooort !!! "

 

Or something like that. 

[_BigRed__]

Wouldn't it be great if one of the brains trust from WG actually contributed to this question?

 

[Blechhaube]

16 minutes ago, _BigRed__ said:

Wouldn't it be great if one of the brains trust from WG actually contributed to this question?

 

Just link your most trusted Wargaming employee and make a reasonable argument. You can also just write a private message, if you have concerns. But do not expect them to scan the forum constantly for valuable content
@Crysantos ( sorry for taking you as an example :D )

[Crysantos]

On 5/1/2020 at 5:56 PM, _BigRed__ said:

Wouldn't it be great if one of the brains trust from WG actually contributed to this question?

We try to answer as much as we can, but we also had a long weekend off due to the Labour Day.

 

Regarding your question - our Karma system is far from perfect, no doubt. If players report you, there might be several reasons for that - some might disagree with your playstyle, some might just use it to vent off some steam in their frustration, some might be mad about what you said in chat. But overall it won't have a negative impact on your gameplay (unless you insult in chat for example) and to be honest, I rather have people who click on "plays poorly" than insulting you in-game. On the other hand there is also no "reward" for having positive Karma besides knowing that others appreciated what you did in the game, like a virtual pat on the back.

 

I do think being positive in-game, communicating constructively will improve your Karma in-game over time - I've seen this with many players and had that experience myself. Sure, there will always be somebody who might spend some negative Karma on you, but take it as a compliment if you managed to be such a thorne in the enemy's side.

 

Have a nice week!

 

Greetings, Crysantos

[Lieut_Gruber]

On 4/30/2020 at 4:22 PM, NosferatuFIN said:

Karma is stupid. When I play a DD with a 55-60% winrate, I always get compliments. When I do the same in Smolensk, I get reported and karma goes to zero. Good stuff.

I always report Smolensk, right from the start, both enemy and friendly. I have no problem with HE, the damage output does not bother me either, just that ship is toxic. Own one myself, dont like playing it. 

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 2 Stunden, Crysantos sagte:

On the other hand there is also no "reward" for having positive Karma besides knowing that others appreciated what you did in the game, like a virtual pat on the back.

Aaaahhhh, you know that that is not true. Positive karma gives you

(a) smaller lanes at supermarket check -out

(b) less sweaty feet

(c) flowers will blossom brighter

(d) better match making

(e) better chances to find money on the street rather than losing some

(f) better tasting salad or steak, depending on whether you are a vegetarian or not

 

Come on, you know it, don't deny it.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Am 30.4.2020 um 11:05, GarrusBrutus sagte:

Funny is when i see matchmaking monitor screenshots on discord, it is always the red players who have zero karma. Hmm, I wonder why... 

 

From monitoring karma during my own battles: roughly 80% of players have zero karma; 10% have 1 to 9 karma; 10% have anything above 9 karma.

Furthermore good and friendly players seem always to have higher karma.

Every player gets reported sooner or later but good and friendly players get more compliments than reports. I guess you could say, the better you play and the more friendly you are at the same time, the higher your karma.

Popularity as a CC is another boost of course, but CCs will also get reported often in case they "dare" to state an honest opinion.

 

If your karma is at zero, there always seems to be an explanation which has to do with not being skillful and friendly at the same time. At least from my observation over the past two months.

Then again, karma officially has no effect (yes it does, see my previous post ).

[firerider202]

Vor 18 Stunden, Lieut_Gruber sagte:

I always report Smolensk, right from the start, both enemy and friendly. I have no problem with HE, the damage output does not bother me either, just that ship is toxic. Own one myself, dont like playing it. 

Besides the Fakt that it has no impact(fortunately), its very poor to report players to play what the game allowes them to play. Its realy unnesesary. Better save youre reports for the realy "interesting" players, you will find enough of those. Dont blame the players, blame the game.

[Gnolfus]

On 4/30/2020 at 12:23 PM, _Teob_ said:

I think that karma is a good indicator of both how well you are playing as well as how toxic you are.

 

This might be a bit weird for CV players though since they probably get a lot of unwarranted random reports. 

It's a good indicator of how well known you are, how many ship friends you have, and of course how friendly and how well you play, but in that order.

Ask your team what the hecking kind of [edited] clown fiesta is going on (8 of them behind them the same island in the corner)? "Don't flame", get reported by players with high percentage of chromosomal abnormalities and low percentage of win rate.

Play good? Enemies will report out of saltiness.

Play CV? Get rightfully reported.

 

I'll take my karma hovering between 0-5 and exercise my right to harvest chat bans any day of the week over living in fear of losing the world of redditship game.

[anonym_mlJIAFnOwMVb]

On 4/30/2020 at 9:06 AM, Migantium_Mashum said:

Karma is for the gentle players, the ones who have a very thin skin and need a million + Karma before they go into battle.... seeing that big + Karma gives them a warm buzzy feeling... and the world is well for twenty minutes or so...

 

-1 Karma and all hell breaks loose....

 

Pfft....!!!

 

until the next time they find something to be offended about which is usually in a few minutes. you know, the blue hairs.

[_Teob_]

1 hour ago, Gnolfus said:

It's a good indicator of how well known you are, how many ship friends you have, and of course how friendly and how well you play, but in that order.

Ask your team what the hecking kind of [edited] clown fiesta is going on (8 of them behind them the same island in the corner)? "Don't flame", get reported by players with high percentage of chromosomal abnormalities and low percentage of win rate.

Play good? Enemies will report out of saltiness.

Play CV? Get rightfully reported.

 

I'll take my karma hovering between 0-5 and exercise my right to harvest chat bans any day of the week over living in fear of losing the world of redditship game.

 

I disagree with the order. I am pretty much unknown and while I do have a decent number of people that I am acquainted with, I rarely run into them.

Being nice and playing well will get you the most karma.

Also I think enemies reporting you for playing well isn't very common.

 

As far as the rest of your post, I mean... you sound like someone I would report. Judging just by your post here you seem toxic and rude so yeah, I guess you keep staying between 0-5 karma and chat banned as much as you want because to me it seems like the system is working perfectly in your case.

 

And about calling other players clowns etc., I will be super real here for a second.

Every time you look at someone and think they are a clown there's someone better than you at the game who thinks the exact same thing about you. That's before we count the players who are objectively worse than you, who might also think you're a clown because they don't know any better.

I guess what I am saying is, I really don't get how people have the nerve to call other players names and rage at them in chat when, they are, often, not the best players themselves.

 

I  have never ever kept track of my karma. I don't care about it at all. That's my whole point here, play well and/or be nice and you will gain karma without thinking about it.

[ColonelPete]

2 hours ago, Gnolfus said:

Ask your team what the hecking kind of [edited] clown fiesta is going on (8 of them behind them the same island in the corner)? "Don't flame", get reported by players with high percentage of chromosomal abnormalities and low percentage of win rate.

That is a problem of your attitude.

Type like a civilized person and that does not happen.

[Gnolfus]

10 hours ago, _Teob_ said:

 

 

Every time you look at someone and think they are a clown there's someone better than you at the game who thinks the exact same thing about you.

 

Of course, I never claimed to be good. I don't expect anyone on my team to be either. I do however expect some base level of minimal competence in the basics of the game, especially how to not position in a way that makes the game 90% certain to be a loss, which people should be able to aquire after 1k+ battles (I'm not there yet and still understand). If letting someone know what they are doing is directly counterproductive to winning is toxic, then yeah I am toxic. Chat bans are a small price to pay for artistic freedom in how I choose to deliver that message 

 

EDIT: To be fair some blame is on WGs part as well. Raw damage output is rewarded and thus incentivized way too much in favour of potential damage and playing the objectives. Bunching up in a way like I described might therefore be benefical if your sole goal is farming damage, even if it's detrimental to winning. Also the damage numbers on external stat sites don't account for what you're shooting at, even if it's baked into the total XP gain. This leads to a situation where people who don't think too much about any of this are trained to play in a way that:

a) Maximizies their own damage output, often at the expense of their own team mates and map control.

b) Don't shoot at DDs even if they are in a ship that is very capable to do so, because they are harder to hit than farming some random BB.

c) Often don't position in a way that allows them to shoot at the DDs well or exert control over capture points in general, because it requires more calculated aggression, which carries the risk of dying earlier, which means less time to farm damage.

 

Quote

because to me it seems like the system is working perfectly

Just like how reddit will always produce only the most refined of objective truths, and democracy ensures all our politicians are competent and acting with good intent 

[Blechhaube]

8 hours ago, _Teob_ said:

I  have never ever kept track of my karma. I don't care about it at all. That's my whole point here, play well and/or be nice and you will gain karma without thinking about it.

For the status quo I would agree on that. But I want to highlight a missed opportunity here. Karma could be a good tool to educate people how to play the game. People misbehave in tactics and communications due to the lack of sanctions. Better communication ingame results in better cooperation as well. That for an instant is a result of game theory studies. If wargaming would invest time into game theory they could develope a huge potential in improving their game.

[_Teob_]

3 hours ago, Blechhaube said:

For the status quo I would agree on that. But I want to highlight a missed opportunity here. Karma could be a good tool to educate people how to play the game. People misbehave in tactics and communications due to the lack of sanctions. Better communication ingame results in better cooperation as well. That for an instant is a result of game theory studies. If wargaming would invest time into game theory they could develope a huge potential in improving their game.

 

Absolutely.

 

Look, there are two different discussion points, how to get karma and is the system any good.

I think I said my piece on how to get it but that doesn't change the fact that the current system is, at the very least, a huge missed opportunity. 

[NothingButTheRain]

On 4/30/2020 at 9:30 AM, _BigRed__ said:

Why do we have karma in game Wargames?

Very hard to earn as human nature is always more negative than positive. You loose it for playing well and killing other ships etc etc. All of which has been cited in many posts beforehand.

However when I loose 15 karma in 2 days by playing well in Ranked Sprint and earn just 2, I ask what is the point of playing this "game".
Why give Wargaming money for doubloons and Xmas containers?

You hurt the moral and the will to invest of players who do invest in YOUR game by having players who have been off line for months & months cover their poor play by painfully reporting you !!!

Just for ONCE ;;;; listen to the forum and sort it out !!!!

Ranked is always a gamemode that kinda disappointed me most of the time. Playing 2 battles and getting reported 3 times or so, it makes ranked the worst gamemode for not loosing karma afaict.

 

I'm fairly sure WG gave the karma system (along with the chat ban system) a lot of thought, but when it comes to the karma number itself, I don't think WG implemented as much into this system compared to how much attention the chat ban system is getting (and frankly, personally I believe the chat ban system should get more priority anyway compared to the karma number).

 

I like the karma system though, though it could be better.

[Captain_Campbell]

I never even realised a karma mechanic existed, I like to give the odd compliment or report but it's not something I usually bother with. Does it have any in game effect?

[Hanse77SWE]

I would like to see a sytem were only the compliments count. At the end of each month it resets and you get a reward of some sort depending on how many you had. If you have zero then you get zero. You don't lose points when you get reported so it focus on the good behavior and the good things. We don't need more ways to spread meaningless salt in this game.

[Dark_Knight08]

The karma is best to be ignored. It gets abused and rarely used for the good intention behind it. This can be seen in just some of the comments here..Dont worry about them, just pretend they dont exist. You dont gain or loose anything from them, so that alone makes them useless...