Tanking isn't worth it

[ColonelPete]

16 minutes ago, Thracen said:

How to tank those ships I listed. Short of russian BBs I can't imagine anything have much of a chance. 

I suggest to read a "101 BB play guide". No interest to write a comprehensive entry on tanking.

Just some examples:

On 5/1/2020 at 2:29 PM, Thracen said:

• You can't tank all the new overmatching BBs.
• You can't tank smolensks and harus.

• You tank them the same way you tanked Yamato. Either angle and/or use rudder at a distance. Both works. Do not sail bow on, that makes overmatching easier.
• Keep moving, do not stand still. Manage your fires. Keep in range of cover, if you nead a breather to heal up.

 

 

[Bratoev]

You can tank in any battleship if you don't sit stationary and take it like champ.

[Donar79]

Am 1.5.2020 um 00:29, Dark_Knight08 sagte:

its easy to farm damage staying in the back, which is what happens the most..so those damage numbers does not matter...this post is just about tanking and if its worth it...and in my opinion it is not...and luckily we dont have to mean and think the same...you look from a numbers point of view i look at it from the gameplay i see..

And staying in the back isn't necessarily bad if you make your shots count and if you realize when it is time to push or retreat. But sniping from the back and shooting the wrong targets and get pitiful dmg out of a salvo doesn't win you games.

What wins you games is keeping important ships alive, therefore BBs have to take of pressure from DDs and cruisers and offer their HP and armor as expensive as possible. And kill ships that provide spotting for enemy BBs. The alternative is killing enemy ships faster than they kill yours but good luck with that if they are actively tanking.

And sure we all have our opinions but excuse me if i don't value your opinion to high since your way to see it doesn't seem very succesful, "Gameplaywise". There is no shame in accepting facts or opinions based on them.

Vor 16 Stunden, Thracen sagte:

How to tank those ships I listed. Short of russian BBs I can't imagine anything have much of a chance. 

As mentioned before tanking not taking. There is a time for every action. Staying stationary with a HE spammer in range and a DD that keeps you spotted isn't tanking.

[Dark_Knight08]

8 hours ago, Donar79 said:

And staying in the back isn't necessarily bad if you make your shots count and if you realize when it is time to push or retreat. But sniping from the back and shooting the wrong targets and get pitiful dmg out of a salvo doesn't win you games.

What wins you games is keeping important ships alive, therefore BBs have to take of pressure from DDs and cruisers and offer their HP and armor as expensive as possible. And kill ships that provide spotting for enemy BBs. The alternative is killing enemy ships faster than they kill yours but good luck with that if they are actively tanking.

And sure we all have our opinions but excuse me if i don't value your opinion to high since your way to see it doesn't seem very succesful, "Gameplaywise". There is no shame in accepting facts or opinions based on them.

As mentioned before tanking not taking. There is a time for every action. Staying stationary with a HE spammer in range and a DD that keeps you spotted isn't tanking.

There is a time for every action, any game is based on strategy. However resorting to stat numbers says nothing about the gameplay if you do not think about how those numbers are achieved. Therefor i dont value your opinion much either. The post is not about how different ship types do in battle on how much damage they do. Its about a specific thing in a battle... tanking. Therefor it is gameplay you have to look at, and why tanking does not happen much anymore. No one in a high tier battle has any reason to move forward, when you can farm damage, hide behind islands and spam and so on. This leaving DDs with a much harder game as well. It is rare these days to see BBs put that healtpool and midrange firepower to good use. You will often find crap dispersion BBs in the back firing away, but doing very little. Again its the gameplay and how ships are used, that makes tanking these days a bad choice. I am not saying that all should tank from the start of a game, but there are times where it could turn the battle...yet you also see even if you outnumber a team at a cap point, that people still dont move forward, and if a BB does, cruisers and so on dont follow. Its a very stale and not dynamic gameplay sadly...you will see many posts about this in the forum

[ColonelPete]

45 minutes ago, Dark_Knight08 said:

This leaving DDs with a much harder game as well.

Why?

If everyone is at the back, DD can run free.

The problem is when only the enemy does not stay back and pushes. THEN DD have a much harder game. Seems like the enemy has a reason to push forward and knows how to do so.

[Itwastuesday]

Can all battleships tank at any matchup?

[DFens_666]

15 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

Can all battleships tank at any matchup?

 

BBs are the best ships to make a move into an enemy position if you need to. It will survive longer than any other ship, while having the ability to cripple of outright kill most ships in the process. However, not every BB can do it equally good and for some it depends what opposition they face, but they still can do it better compared to a Cruiser or a DD. If done properly, you will gain control over that part of the map and maybe win the game. Will you survive? Not always, but thats not the goal of the game. DDs and Cruisers should survive, BBs are expandable if needed.

I think, most people expect too much out of tanking. First of all, you cant tank for your cruisers and DDs if they behave like potatoes. If i have the option to shoot a bow on BB or a Cruiser/DD, ill shoot the latter. Ive even seen people complain about not tanking, when they sit broadside in their Cruiser or openwater yolo gunboat in their DD. Noone can force the enemy to shoot a BB. Ofc when a BB goes into a position, where every enemy can shoot/farm it, then they will do so and the BB wont last long - why should it, if several enemies are shooting it?

A BB which tanks for no apparent reason will die and accomplish nothing for its team. F.e. your team has the cap ahead of you, and you think to go into the cap to hold it. Enemies start to farm you from safety behind the cap, you die, and they can take the cap because there is no more BB left to threaten them.

 

I have a couple of examples with my GK, but never uploaded them. Ill post some screenshots from the video

 

A pretty desperate situation as you can see from the minimap. Enemies have 2 caps (getting the 3rd even) we are outnumbered already and basicly surrounded. Now what to do as a BB? Well, you have to move in. You cant expect any other ship to do it.

 

 

Now i move in and my Cruisers could retreat further away and still farm their BBs to help me get rid of them.As you can see, my Yamato and Izumo have no clue what to do, they continue sitting in the back. If i would have retreated aswell, enemies could have just farmed us in spawn till its over, without the chance for us to really hurt them.

 

 

Blapped the Yamato to complete the push. We are ahead on ships now and about to get our first cap. All ships on that flank survived, even i managed to survive, because GK is basicly immune to a Yamato if bow on. Got 4 kills, 100k+ damage and 1,4 million tanked damage during that push, and turned the game around.

 

Here is another example with Musashi

 

The enemies are already in our base, we are behind on ships and literally lose if we dont defend the base. So i get into position where i can shoot the incomming enemies and reset the base.

 

 

Really bad situation, had to move into the base, but im at 3 million tanked by now and almost 180k damage aswell.

 

 

I died just at the end, had no HP left the DD just shot me to death, but died as a result. So we won the game. 3,5 million tanked and 220k damage ontop of that.

 

 

[Dark_Knight08]

2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Why?

If everyone is at the back, DD can run free.

The problem is when only the enemy does not stay back and pushes. THEN DD have a much harder game. Seems like the enemy has a reason to push forward and knows how to do so.

True but at DD cant and should not have to do it all...they already have many expectations and things to do in a battle, and i see a lot of DDs in battles complaining about lack of support. A battle should be a team effort and not a few carrying the team.

[Donar79]

Vor 9 Stunden, Dark_Knight08 sagte:

True but at DD cant and should not have to do it all...they already have many expectations and things to do in a battle, and i see a lot of DDs in battles complaining about lack of support. A battle should be a team effort and not a few carrying the team.

A "good" DD doesn't have to do it all. First of all he has to stay alive and provide spotting so that his team can support him. The DD (most of them) don't have the potential to effectively decrease enemys hp he needs his team. He then picks his targets by ability.

The gameplay is absolutely flawed atm but this doesn't change the fact that a well played (tanking in the right moment) BB is deciding games if at least some of the team realise the opportunity which is given to them. @DFens_666 showed some late game examples.

 

P.S. @ForlornSailor looks like you lost your manners there

[ForlornSailor]

1 hour ago, Donar79 said:

P.S. @ForlornSailor looks like you lost your manners there

 

Its already sort of tradition, that anytime @DFens_666 posts a screenshot, its one, where im raging in chat.

Usualy im a really nice guy in chat. seriously. guys? why are you all looking at me like this?

[Itwastuesday]

Some very good posts in this thread, I feel like my winrate is improving a lot!

[Thracen]

Yep some very pretty words, however tanking, like spotting, and smoking others is entirely dependant on team work.

 

For every example you can find of it working you can find 9 more where it was a mistake. The golden rule of never going first still plagues this game.

 

Due to the huge dpm increase in recent times the window for team mates to react to an aggressive tanking position is very, very narrow. Considering how RNG can troll a BB it can literally take minutes for successful support fire to come in. 

 

Do you see how these things don't add up?

[Dark_Knight08]

16 hours ago, Donar79 said:

A "good" DD doesn't have to do it all. First of all he has to stay alive and provide spotting so that his team can support him. The DD (most of them) don't have the potential to effectively decrease enemys hp he needs his team. He then picks his targets by ability.

The gameplay is absolutely flawed atm but this doesn't change the fact that a well played (tanking in the right moment) BB is deciding games if at least some of the team realise the opportunity which is given to them. @DFens_666 showed some late game examples.

 

P.S. @ForlornSailor looks like you lost your manners there

we agree that if things are done at the right time tanking can work...but its a team effort that personally i find rare to see...but like you say the gameplay is flawed, and that has really been my only point to make...as i experience it in game, it is not worth it cause no one backs it up even when opportunity is there for it...not sure what wg can do to fix the flaws in the game as it is atm, but there are some interesting posts about that here in forum so keeping an eye on those as well...for now personally i stay away from high tier games, hoping that things will change soon..