[Poll] Will you buy new IJN Tier X DD "Hayate" for 2M "FreeXP" ?

[lafeel]

On 5/2/2020 at 8:07 AM, lossi_2018 said:

The no's are devastating I think. It speaks volumes to where the playerbase  truly is and where WG thinks

Not entirely correct. It speaks volumes of what the forum players think. Sadly with only 405 votes, it is statistically insignificant when it comes to the number of players this game actually has.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a poll that'd show what the entire player base thinks of this, but I don't think that is happening.

[AgarwaenME]

21 minutes ago, lafeel said:

Not entirely correct. It speaks volumes of what the forum players think. Sadly with only 405 votes, it is statistically insignificant when it comes to the number of players this game actually has.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a poll that'd show what the entire player base thinks of this, but I don't think that is happening.

 

On the other hand, forumites are likely to be playing rather a lot more than the average, thus being far more likely to be able to ever afford this.

[lafeel]

7 minutes ago, AgarwaenME said:

 

On the other hand, forumites are likely to be playing rather a lot more than the average, thus being far more likely to be able to ever afford this.

This is true. For what it's worth I have met at least three Puerto Ricos since that event ended, but yet to meet a single Hayate (feel free to make of that what you wish)

[Miscommunication_dept]

Seeing lots of Smalands, Haven't seen one Hayate yet

[HMS_Kilinowski]

I've seen a few in Ranked.

 

Does that mean that Hayate is not popular?

Or have most of the players just dumped 2M FXP on Smaland a couple of days ago and not earned another 2M to get the Hayate so shortly afterwards?

A lot of players wanted to wait and see which of both ships would feel better. The sudden release of Hayate was totally unanticipated. Many players didn't expect her to be released so shortly after Smaland, so they got Smaland instead.

The high frequency of Smalands imo doesn't reflect a difference in popularity, but has rather economic reasons. It was bound to happen, when WG asks 4M for two freemium ships. Who would have that amount of FXP?

 

On 4/29/2020 at 10:10 AM, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

 

IMHO this whole "inflation" story about WoWs economy is very very exaggerated...

 

Why?

 

Because:

• there are no "Dunkirk" and "Cherry Blossom" scenarios that enabled nice farming of "Free XP" and "Elite Captain XP" - those are missing for 1+ years!
• it is nice to have ability to hang more flags on your ship - but the fact is that rare special flags are just that - RARE (i.e. you can't buy them - you have to earn them or get lucky and that is very hard to do)!

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

I criticised that already when we had the same discussions about Smaland and 2M FXP. That amount of FXP is not that easy to come by anymore. I used up a lot of special signals and camos in the last days to make use of the 200%-daily wins. You really bleed signals. Some players have even stated the obvious: After those insane missions in the Puerto Rico grind, many players have completely used up their rare stuff, cause the grind simply wasn't possible otherwise. What were those milestones? "Earn 1M XP after multiplier", "earn 200M credits" among others, each of that to be completed within 4-5 days. Ofc the community has used many of these signals and stuff.

 

Now Narai has been nerfed on top of the other lucrative operations. It's a rip off. I paid real money for my Sims, not because slow torps, bad concealment and one less gun were such a great combination, but so I had a ship for the Dunkirk operation.

 

On 5/1/2020 at 4:06 PM, Ocsimano18 said:

I have seen a couple of CCs playing her. They talk trash about her, but then she plays like a gem.

 

Isn't that an interesting phenomenon? So some of you conclude the ship is bad and unpopular, cause CCs say so, while the people who repeat that mantra have never played it. Few players picked Hayate, but if Hayate would have been released first and would have been included into an event and campaign, as the Smaland was, wouldn't it be much more frequent now?

 

On 5/2/2020 at 10:12 AM, Yoshanai said:

The playerbase has one problem and it's the unwillingness of git gud. 

 

Hayate is fine but requires training and experience. 

And noone wants to commit to learning these days. The ship has to work without effort but at the same time it's not allowed to be OP. 

 

Reality check:Easy to use usually goes hand in hand with being OP. 

 

That may be or may not be. It's not the point, why Hayate is unpopular. It is first and foremost unpopular, because Wargaming charges a price that forces players to choose one of two ships, and they choose the one they saw first, Smaland. One may argue that there is still lots of players left who didn't choose Smaland and have the FXP left but don't pick Hayate. It's also unpopular because the numbers suggest that, because CCs suggested that and because people believe in those numbers. It has nothing to do with player quality. I wouldn't want to play a ship that is not competitive - not saying Hayate is such a ship. Everybody wants a ship that is at least average.

Now if that ship costs 2M FXP - remember for that amount one can reset IJN-gunboat line three times and get the Ohio - one wants something extra, be it a more powerful ship, be it an interesting playstyle or just some funny meme. You don't pay extra for no extra. You don't pay extra for a ship that - in your vision -  is just something on a straight line between two known old ships, Harugumo and Shimakaze.

 

Mind, I am not saying Hayate is that, not saying she is on a straight line between known designs, but she was presented that way by every CC I watched and even by Wargaming, a.k.a a big red sign saying "Don't buy this!"

 

If they all label a Hayate as a Shima with one less torp launcher and better guns, the image in the head is that of a torpedo boat, and ofc she looks inferior. But it's a gunboat. It's not even a hybrid. It might be called a hybrid, if you consider that Gearing became a hybrid just by the shift of later DD lines towards guns. But originally Gearing was THE gunboat. And that is what Hayate is. One needs to forget what it looks like and see the DNA.

If a player would think about what guns he ideally would dream of having on his gunboat, he will likely say "IJN 127mms with faster traverse and reload". And this is what he gets.

So he likely would want at least some hard hitting torpedos that can dev strike a single threat rushing his smoke or pushing him against the border. Again that is what he gets.

If I think about what I want on a gunboat, I pretty much think of Hayate.

 

The design has its flaws and I disagree with the statement that it would be OP if it got buffed a bit. The concealment of a ship is (supposed) to be a direct function of its allocation within the food chain. Prey needs good concealment. Predators must be seen from further away to balance things out. Hayate is a predator on Gearing level, it should have 5.8km concealment. It's also not as much of a light cruiser as Harugumo, so the rudder shift should be at least half a second faster. I watched some of the few replays on Hayate and I saw that typical unvoluntary drifting into detection range that you see in combination of bad concealment and bad maneuverability. The Hayate wants to get off torps as a Shima would, gets close but then it can't turn fast enough to move away before the pushing target enters its detection range. I think the concealment values and rudder shift mess with the pace that we are used to from Shima. Maybe that is what "git gud" meant.

I will be honest. I get more and more interested in Hayate, because it has the right ingredients. The dish is appealing but the ingredients need some adjustment.

 

The next thing is this arbitrary fixation of Wargaming on these straight FXP-prices. If coal ships, steel ship, RP ships, hell even silver ships, all have unique and different prices compared to other ships of the same tier, why do FXP ships all cost the same? There is no rational explanation to this other than "tradition". If a product is deemed inferior, the logical consequence would be to make it cheaper, to still attract customers. T7-Blyskawica costs 4700 doubloons, T7- Scharnhorst costs 9500 doubloons. Why does a Friesland cost the same as an Alaska, why will the next FXP-BC or BB cost the same as the Hayate?

 

On 4/30/2020 at 1:03 PM, Jvd2000 said:

Not interested at neither 2m FXP DD’s. First, I am not really a dd player. Second 2m FXP is stupidly expensive. You can level 2 complete silver lines and go far with a 3rd one for that amount. 
 

Regarding all the current and past FXP ships:

 

Nelson:375k FXP . A no brainer, still available.

Missouri: 750k FXP no longer available, but still a good price.

Krohnstadt: 750 FXP: ok- ish in my book for this price ( worse then Alaska But 1/4 cheaper) no longer available.

Musashu 750k FXP: ok, but it was also available for coal? No longer available.

Alaska 1m FXP: Increase in price...ok cruiser but 1 m? I only bought it because I had the FXP refund from resetting my cv’s.

Friesland: 1 m FXP: ok, guilty, only bought it because I am Dutch..Did appreciate the ship for enabling me to get the more easy goals in missions and current campaign since I lack other tier8+ EU DD’s.

Azuma: 1 m FXP: would have bought the ship with much reluctance...in the end got it with a container during Xmas...wohoo saved FXP!

 

Currently saved up to 820k FXP after spending 250k on boosting regrind lines. Intend to keep it around that amount to have FXP handy for a tier 9 FXP ship that might/ might not come.

 

The obvious pattern is that late ships got more and more expensive and less attractive. Missouri was an economic must-have. Nelson, Kronshtadt and Musashi compensated the lower credit multiplier by being powerful. The next generation was already 1M, but ships that were not for everybody. Alaska I can't get to work, Friesland and Azuma are not superior in any way to tech-tree ships. Friesland some found interesting, but only due to the botched up CV-rework.

 

So now we are at 2M FXP.

 

If WG thinks or says that we have the FXP, they might be right, I have it. But it is a false conclusion to think, we have it just because we have earned so much of it and already spent it on all options. It's lying around because WG gave us nothing worth spending it on. Those 2M FXP are hard earned. Most players are not unwilling to spend them but still waiting for a ship that is worth it. If that ship is not provided, at some point some might have 4-5M FXP and suddenly WG thinks raising prices to 5M is appropriate. No it's not.

FXP is an everyday ressource for everybody. It is not supposed to be exclusive as steel or maybe RP. So the ships are not supposed to be a niche. For 2M FXP the community imo deserves a ship suited for everyone, a no-brainer.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

1 Million FXP is hard enough for most (excluding wallet warriors). Double that?  read my lips...No...Friggin'...way.

 

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

According to "ProShips.ru" from today (2020-05-07):

 

https://proships.ru/stat/eu/s/99999-

 

• Hayate = 455 unique Player IDs (i.e. increase of just 66 for past 3 days)

 

 

The "Maplesyrup" weekly:

 

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/shipstatswk/svr/eu/ship_20200502.html

 

• Hayate = 311 unique Player IDs

 

 

BTW,  the "WoWs Stats & Numbers" list just 1647 (Random) battles in her (i.e increase of just 525 battles in past 3 days):

 

https://wows-numbers.com/ship/3760076496,Hayate/

 

 

So... all in all... very very very low number of "Hayate" purchased and played...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[1MajorKoenig]

4 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

So... all in all... very very very low number of "Hayate" purchased and played...

 

What a surprise given the price tag... 

 

I would have been interested but not for 2mio FXP

[Shaka_D]

On 5/2/2020 at 7:49 PM, Dutchy_2019 said:

It all depends on how long it will be available:

 

Current priorities:

 

1. Alaska 

2a. Friesland 

2b. Nelson

4, Smaland

5a Azuma

5b Hayate

 

And all that depends on what else will come by.

For me friesland comes last just after azuma. Smaland I really enjoy playing and Hayate is not bad at all, just needs a little getting used to its playstyle, Both of these are further up the list for me.

[Dutchy_2019]

I understand, but as a Dutchy,  Friesland has to be up there.... On my EU account I already have her in Port, on my NA account I do not. 

 

 

 

 

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

Many thanks to all who voted - we have 421 votes in (and I think this is one of the highest scoring polls that I can remember)!

 

 

 

BTW, final results... according to "ProShips.ru" from today (2020-05-12):

 

https://proships.ru/stat/eu/s/99999-

 

• Hayate = 565 unique Player IDs (i.e. increase of just 90 for past 5 days)

 

BTW,  the "WoWs Stats & Numbers" list just 2779 (Random) battles in her (i.e increase of just 1132 battles in past 5 days) and only 2 players have played more than 80 battles in her thus far (both with less than "stellar" results):

 

https://wows-numbers.com/ship/3760076496,Hayate/

 

 

So... all in all... very very very low number of "Hayate" purchased and played...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[thisismalacoda]

Vor 1 Stunde, Leo_Apollo11 sagte:

 

BTW,  the "WoWs Stats & Numbers" list just 2779 (Random) battles in her (i.e increase of just 1132 battles in past 5 days) and only 2 players have played more than 80 battles in her thus far (both with less than "stellar" results):

 

https://wows-numbers.com/ship/3760076496,Hayate/

 

 

Early numbers for resource ships are volatile and lately did not behave as generally expected.

 

 

When a new ship shows up, you expect results to a least somewhat improve over time as people learn to play the ships correctly (premium or tech tree usually follow that pattern). However both Thunderer and Marceau WRs (I didn't check average damage or other metrics) are slowly decreasing. Possibly as early adopters (who had the resource stockpiled) are - on average - better players than people who buy 'expensive' ships later.

 

Similarly Hayate went from 57.4 % last week to 54.9 % this week. Too early to draw conclusions - most people don't analyse statistics closely anyway - but before spending two million free XP, buyers want to make sure the price is warranted.

 

 

And worth mentioning that both of these guys listed outperform their other ships when using Hayate - again looking only at WR and not other metrics.

 

[All WRs quoted maplesyrup EU]

[anonym_PYC0RAuRIwe4]

No, it's a painfully mediocre ship with nothing special going for it.

[GraySlayer]

I looked at it again as I am an IJN main and did a parody of the knights of Nee

 

Nee nee nee nee nee......

 

I would rather have a Shrubbery than a Hayate, especially if it has a little white fence..

 

 

[albin322]

On 5/7/2020 at 8:23 AM, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

According to "ProShips.ru" from today (2020-05-07):

 

https://proships.ru/stat/eu/s/99999-

 

• Hayate = 455 unique Player IDs (i.e. increase of just 66 for past 3 days)

 

 

The "Maplesyrup" weekly:

 

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/shipstatswk/svr/eu/ship_20200502.html

 

• Hayate = 311 unique Player IDs

 

 

BTW,  the "WoWs Stats & Numbers" list just 1647 (Random) battles in her (i.e increase of just 525 battles in past 3 days):

 

https://wows-numbers.com/ship/3760076496,Hayate/

 

 

So... all in all... very very very low number of "Hayate" purchased and played...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

i think 1 problem also is the people just bought småland and dont have enough free xp (yet) to buy it! wait a month or 2 and check the numbers then.

[Yedwy]

48 minutes ago, albin322 said:

i think 1 problem also is the people just bought småland and dont have enough free xp (yet) to buy it! wait a month or 2 and check the numbers then.

Doubtful, Smaland in additon to (still) actually existing at least has some interesting features in form of consumables, Hayate not so much...

 

IMO the IJN DDs are a mess and completely chaotic...

 

It would IMHO be much more sensible that gunboat line starts with Akizuki at T8 and torp line be (from T5) - Minekaze, Hatchuharu, Shiratsuyu, Kagero, Yugumo and Hayate and Shima should be a T10 premium for coal/freexp

 

This way as it is - you have a better torp boat (Shira) with TRB in gunboat line... Then you have 2 rack + TRB in T7 (again wrong side of tree) T8 AND T9 but the T 6, 7 (akatsuki) and 10 are 3 rack without TRB...

 

Total bl**dy mess

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

On 5/7/2020 at 11:20 AM, Shaka_D said:

For me friesland comes last just after azuma. Smaland I really enjoy playing and Hayate is not bad at all, just needs a little getting used to its playstyle, Both of these are further up the list for me.

I must say, I bought the Friesland becasue it's very different and Dutch, but I do really like her. She's quite fun! Not a real killer, surely not an areal denial tool, but a nice support ship that can hold her own in many situations, especially with carriers around.

[Shaka_D]

1 hour ago, Europizza said:

I must say, I bought the Friesland becasue it's very different and Dutch, but I do really like her. She's quite fun! Not a real killer, surely not an areal denial tool, but a nice support ship that can hold her own in many situations, especially with carriers around.

I probably need to learn to play gunboats more to be honest, but it's mainly because I think I'm more of a torpedo captain and the guns are secondary for me.

[Maris_Piper]

I was considering Friesland, but it seems lacking and a little left behind now the rest of the line is available, No Heal no Torps Mediocre detection and not vast amounts more DPM than her tech tree sisters but that's just how I see it.

As for Hayate 2 million, Hell No!

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, motor_g_b said:

I was considering Friesland, but it seems lacking and a little left behind now the rest of the line is available, No Heal no Torps Mediocre detection and not vast amounts more DPM than her tech tree sisters but that's just how I see it.

As for Hayate 2 million, Hell No!

Her smoke and hydro probably let her be played drastically different from the swedish ones, but I can't tell yet. I only played tier 5 and 6.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

Lets see what happened in (almost) past 2 weeks...

 

 

According to "ProShips.ru" from today (2020-05-24):

 

https://proships.ru/stat/eu/s/99999-

 

• Hayate = 657 unique Player IDs (i.e. increase of just 92 for past 12 days)

 

BTW,  the "WoWs Stats & Numbers" list just 4972 (Random) battles in her (i.e increase of just 1992 battles in past 12 days) and only 3 players have played more than 80 battles in her thus far (both with less than "stellar" results):

 

https://wows-numbers.com/ship/3760076496,Hayate/

 

 

Still again... very very very low number of "Hayate" purchased and played...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Todeskult]

On 4/28/2020 at 2:03 PM, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

[Poll] Will you buy new IJN Tier X DD "Hayate" for 2M "FreeXP" ?

 

 

I have 2.5+ M "FreeXP" but I passed both the 1M "FreeXP" Tier IX "Friesland" (i.e. torpedoless DD) and 2M "FreeXP" Tier X "Smaland" (i.e. smokeless DD)... I have all other "FreeXP" ships that ever existed though...

 

BTW I don't think that 2M is reasonable for "Hayate" (a strange DD "hybrid")... so, most likely, I will not buy her either... 

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

No ship for 2 mln XP is being considered as "reasonable" (when comes to such a price) in my opinion. I play rather casually than I used to: few games every second or third day (I price my sanity higher than this crap of a "full-CV" and "see-through-land radars" soviet excuse for a "belenz" game). So I won't gather that much resources (coal, economy flags, freeXP, etc) anytime soon in order to gather that much free XP... twice (as I'm missing both Smaland and Hayate).

 

Let's make it perfectly clear: Wargaming made them worth not 1 mln but 2 mln XP to force "whales" buy lor of gold to covert XP from their ships and suck some more milk-money from those "whales". Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[Todeskult]

[duplicated post]
 

[Miscommunication_dept]

Well, I’ve grinded 2 million xp but am completely uninterested in these ships at these prices.

 

I’ll wait for a 1m XP tier 9 instead.

[Alexhideg94]

Just got Hayate and played 2 games with it! Not bad ship but nothing special! is it worth it 2 mil free XP? NO! Smaland is better for that price tag!
Wont play it often, but its nice to have an extra TX ship for potential anniversary SC's from where i will get 100 useless ramming flags