Thunderer HE spam

[StonerStanley]

On 4/28/2020 at 11:52 AM, Rock_n_Rolf said:

this this team ? 

[Skurfa]

8 minutes ago, StonerStanley said:

this this team ? 

More like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scavenger09]

Congratulations! You have unlocked achievement: Necromancer.

[Humorpalanta]

14 hours ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

I meant no heavily armored ship designed after 1930 for naval gun battle was ever lost to fire.

Understandable. Can you please tell me how many heavily armored battleships have taken part in a war since 1946 and how many of them was sunk by another battleship?

But we can go back until 1930, too. If you want.

Basically the Hood sunk by Bismarck aaaaand that is almost it.

 

But if you are so annoyed that the game is not realistic maybe we should change the accuracy to the real-life levels and in that case BBs could score 5-6 hits in 1 battle. Or you are interested just in the part that is comfortable for you?

[Eikkuu]

Le 28/04/2020 à 12:46, Dragontrn a dit :

I'm getting bored to play against Thunderer with HE spam, almost every game now, when i see a thunderer, i'm pretty sure he gonna spam HE, even broad side, those players never use AP. And the chance of fire is so incredible,  1 salvo 3 fires,  after my ship got repaired, another hit with 2 fires. I prefer that i got hit on citadel than catching fire like this he spammer.

Thunderer is too strong, great HE but AP on cruisers is strong because oVeRmAtCh (sad cruisers life). WG dont know the word balance.

[CaptainPugwashed]

Thunderer is not really a problem...Smolensk on the other hand, that thing is just annoying beyond words. HE spam machine gun. Good luck managing fires if focused by that piece of crap in a BB.

[Dragontrn]

Back then when everyone is fine with Thunderer HE spammer, and now almost every one hatter thunderer's players with HE spammer. I was right at the start, i have opportunity to buy it last year but i didn't join the force, because i really hate this ship

[Gebbly]

"i mean, when my ship got 3 fires by that ship, i must push the Damage control Party, i think everybody will do the same ?"

 

Surely if you are being focused by any ship that is firing HE it makes sense to wait until either you are out of their line of sight/in cover/they are dead before using damage control. Otherwise logic dictates their following salvos could indeed set you on fire again.

 

Also I am guessing you aren't just sitting there watching your ship burn. If he is hitting you with salvos he is detected. Why cant you return fire? Move forwards into cover or try taking him out. If you can get AP hits on him and he gets HE hits on you, you can heal the damage and he cant.

[arttuperkunas]

1 minute ago, Gebbly said:

...logic dictates their following salvos could would indeed set you on fire again..

I think you must have forgotten that you're in the Thunderer thread.

[Gebbly]

It doesnt really matter, the logic still stands. Wait until you arent being focused by a ship firing HE before using your damage control.

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

So funny looking at comments of people defending the Thunderer... Baffling.

[Dutchy_2019]

On 4/28/2020 at 12:55 PM, DFens_666 said:

You shouldnt be in trouble against 1 BB shooting HE at you. Being unlucky happens sometimes, but it shouldnt be the norm. If it is, you are doing something wrong

- Dont be stationary, you are easier to hit

- Thunderer is rather accurate. Someone shooting HE non-stop is basicly guaranteed to be a potato. You should be able to dodge when you are moving around, because they cant predict dodges.

 

 

That doesnt happen everytime. If you are in big trouble, find an island to cover yourself from him if you cant get undetected otherwise. If your DCP is on cooldown, then rather dont shoot for a moment if it helps you to stay undetected.

 

To some extent true, but a >60% fire chance is absolutely ridiculous. 

[Hades_warrior]

19 minutes ago, KommodorevonKlein said:

So funny looking at comments of people defending the Thunderer... Baffling.

Yes indeed.

What is more funnier to see when someone cry that this ship doesn't have super heal.

[arttuperkunas]

18 minutes ago, KommodorevonKlein said:

So funny looking at comments of people defending the Thunderer... Baffling.

Is anyone actually defending it?

 

I don't find the Thunderer hugely threatening, not because it's not an OP ship (it is), but because it's mostly played by pepega HE snipers on the A/J line who will happily let you turn full broadside in front of them without reaching for the AP. Maybe in six months the lemmings will jump on a new bandwagon, leaving the Thunderer to be played by actually competent BB drivers. At that point, we might start to welcome seeing Thunderers on our own team and fearing them on the enemy team.

 

As it is, it's a good rule of thumb that the team with the more thunderers will lose, all other things being equal.

[Bybernd]

27 minutes ago, KommodorevonKlein said:

So funny looking at comments of people defending the Thunderer... Baffling.

Well take a look on wows-numbers.

[COPlUM]

46 minutes ago, Gebbly said:

when my ship got 3 fires by that ship, i must push the Damage control Party, i think everybody will do the same

That's how you use DCP against any other ship, not against thunderer. Thunderer has almost 80% chance of getting a double fire on you per salvo, 55% chance of getting a triple fire on you per salvo, every 21 seconds. The way you deal with Thunderer is you let the first double/triple fire burn for 20 seconds and hit DCP right before the second double/triple fire hits you, this way you put out six fires with one DCP. Letting a triple fire burn for 20 seconds feels weird but it's the only way to stop Thunderer from burning you to death with pepega HE shells from 25km.

Alternatively, stick to T8 battleships if you want to have fun in a battleship, T8s don't see 8-10 thunderers per match and unlike T7 battleships, they are covered in 32mm - not 26mm. So they are not overmatched by everything and do not spontaneously combust when bottom tier.

 

Thunderer is the dumbest ship in the entire game and it's never going to stop, every content creator said it's easy to do 300K damage in them so everyone got one. Content creators did not lie, look at any 40% WR pepega, if he has thunderer, his damage record is 350K-375K in Thunderer, it's so easy your dog could do it. This is not like Smolensk where many people got one and you see them less overtime, battleships are 10X more popular, everyone got one. And potatoes have no reason to play anything else because Thunderer lets them get 200K every game from the J-line, they never do 75K in anything else, why would they stop.

 

The only way to balance it is community-balance, if enough people hate this ship and focus it, you'll start seeing it less, that's what happened to Smolensk. If you're a carrier, be the good guy for once, bomb the thunderer. If you're a destroyer, don't yolo the jean bart 7km away from you, waste some time and yolo the thunderer 11km away from you, if you're in a hindenburg, don't spam the montana, spam the thunderer. If 2 ships are spamming you, put out Thunderer's fires but don't put out the fires from whatever else is spamming you. If you meet them in ranked, do whatever you can to make sure thunderer does not save his/her star etc.

[Dragontrn]

44 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

That's how you use DCP against any other ship, not against thunderer. Thunderer has almost 80% chance of getting a double fire on you per salvo, 55% chance of getting a triple fire on you per salvo, every 21 seconds. The way you deal with Thunderer is you let the first double/triple fire burn for 20 seconds and hit DCP right before the second double/triple fire hits you, this way you put out six fires with one DCP. Letting a triple fire burn for 20 seconds feels weird but it's the only way to stop Thunderer from burning you to death with pepega HE shells from 25km.
 

Even when i did what you said, Thunderer is keeping make perma fire on my ship when my repair control run out, huge dmg per HE salvo and extra fire is ridiculous. People forget that thunderer had great app too but they are so lazy to aim properly, That why when i see any thunderer shoot AP in game, +1 for that player for respect

[COPlUM]

3 hours ago, Dragontrn said:

Thunderer is keeping make perma fire on my ship when my repair control run out, huge dmg per HE salvo and extra fire is ridiculous.

Repeating thunderer is a broken ship won't change anything, it's a premium, it was released that way, clearly it was a mistake but it's staying that way, everyone knows it's broken. With carriers, at least small number of people are arguing that carriers are not broken, nobody is even arguing in Thunderer's case, the few pepegas who argue thunderer is fine in this very topic have never played a game over T4 killing bots. Nobody even remotely serious about world of warships says thunderer is a normal ship.

It's not a normal ship so stop treating it like one, community-balancing is a thing, grief the ship. Des Moines was balanced this way a long time ago, people went "Des Moines! It's a roach! KILL IT" - Same for Smolensk. Carriers choose who they drop, so CVs, please drop thunderer, DDs choose who they torp, so DDs please torp thunderer, HE spammers choose who they spam, so spam thunderer.

Queue is cluttered by pepegas playing Thunderer because it's easy to get good results in it, make it less easy, they'll go away, ask Smolensk. Smolensk was so hated, battleships would blindfire a smoked up smolensk when they had broadsides to shoot. When you face a Thunderer in ranked and the enemy team lost, there's very often a full HP captain-save-a-star thunderer on the enemy team sitting in the back, he wants to make THE FIRE DAMAGU to save his star - Don't go and kill him, hide behind a rock and run out the clock so he doesn't save his star.

Sure, you're wasting 1-2 minutes of your own time and you're missing out on 20K damage, but you're also making a Thunderer player sad, isn't that what we all really want? If Thunderer and a Hindenburg are spamming you, put out Thunderer's fires and let Hindy's fires burn. Community balancing is a beautiful thing, it doesn't work with carriers because you never get to shoot one, it works on everything else.

If you really hate Thunderer, play range-mod + spotter plane hindenburg and focus farm Thunderers from 25km, it's one of a few cruisers that's any good in the deadeye-meta anyway, they go absolutely nuts if you do to them what they do to everyone else but you're doing it better. Getting a witherer from killing a Thunderer feels better than a kraken and 3K base xp.

If you're farming out a thunderer from 25km in a hindenburg, thunderer will lose his goddamn mind, because every time he shoots someone, he's spotted for 30 seconds and you get 3 salvos in, you're too far away for thunderer to even shoot you back, and even if he does shoot you back, their shells are underway for 15+ seconds, juke all of them. It's super toxic but that's what they like, apparently.

[invicta2012]

6 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

Repeating thunderer is a broken ship won't change anything, it's a premium, it was released that way, clearly it was a mistake but it's staying that way, everyone knows it's broken.

Thudnerer is a Special, not a Premium, and so can be balansed any time WG care to do so. 

[COPlUM]

24 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Thudnerer is a Special, not a Premium, and so can be balansed any time WG care to do so. 

Didn't even know that, don't remember this ever happening either so I wouldn't get my hopes up. Realistically, the only way Thunderer gets balanced is community balancing. You hate it, I hate it, everyone hates it, so focus it. Smolensk spam stopped because pepegas spamming smolensk were like 'Holy F* why me, why always me, why won't anyone shoot anything but me'

This is an unconcious thing many people do when they hate a ship, it's a concious thing for some, I literally have a Hindenburg with 25km range and 21pt Lütjens for the sole purpose of making Thunderers miserable after they pissed me off too much.

In world of warships, sadly, there's limits to how much of an extremist you can be. In war thunder there was a plane that was ruining the game for everyone, the TU-4. Everyone hated that thing, I took it upon myself to become the hard counter to them, spamming MIG9L, all I did - for thousands of games, was charge into the enemy TU-4 and trade.

It became such an issue that I would spawn, say "hello" in chat and TU-4 players would recognize my name and eject out of their plane before take-off. My trend picked up, forums were on fire from mad TU-4 players, the plane got nerfed and the griefing stopped. Sometimes community balancing is necessary.

[viceadmiral123]

Why would you shoot AP when your HE blaps every single ship in the game for 10k + 1-2 fires per salvo, and you can spam it with 23s reload with marksman's accuracy. Unless it's a Mino or similar ship that explodes from AP, but make no mistake, HE still melts these ships and destroys torpedoes, engine/rudder, AA, etc.

[SodaBubbles]

8 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

Thudnerer is a Special, not a Premium, and so can be balansed any time WG care to do so. 

I dont understand why they haven't intervened to balance that thing. It's so obviously broken and unfun to play against.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 2 Stunden, SodaBubbles sagte:

I dont understand why they haven't intervened to balance that thing. It's so obviously broken and unfun to play against.

Possibly because WG wants to have some ships in the game that a certain type of player can play and feel good about himself/herself. IMO Conqueror was the first ship of that kind.

[EnacheV]

so whats going on here ?

 

minigun cruisers complaining that some random battleship is stealing their fire damage ?

 

translation : is ok for me to spam HE at a rate of 90-200 shells per minute , nerf this guy cause he is stealing my fires

 

lol

[arttuperkunas]

20 minutes ago, EnacheV said:

so whats going on here ?

 

minigun cruisers complaining that some random battleship is stealing their fire damage ?

 

translation : is ok for me to spam HE at a rate of 90-200 shells per minute , nerf this guy cause he is stealing my fires

 

lol

I stand corrected, there was one person defending the Thunderer.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but allow me to point out the obvious - yes, light cruisers have high dpm, but it is balanced by other factors (usually mediocre range, very poor survivability)

 

Thunderer can do what these high dpm cruisers can do, and in addition, it can do everything a battleship can do. It is a ship with several massive strengths (very good he/AP, overmatch, very good maneuvrability, very good stealth), and essentially no weaknesses. That's what makes it boring. The other monstrous gun platforms at tier 10, i.e. the Vermont and the Yamato, have crippling weaknesses in terms of their concealment and mobility. Thunderer entirely lacks these balancing weaknesses.

 

This is also what makes the Thunderer boring to play. It is has no personality as a ship. It is my highest win rate ship (maybe not highest damage though? not sure) at tier 10, but I basically never play it anymore, because it's boring, boring, boring.