Thunderer HE spam

[Yedwy]

6 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

Why not just make a very tanky and fast battleship with 8 smolensk turrets? :)

Dont give them ideas ffs

[Hades_warrior]

12 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

 

• control the number of ships that can shoot you,

No problem.

 

[diegobrando_2019]

Let's be honest, if Thunderer was a russian ship, everybody would be complaining about it all the time.

[DasTongle]

22 hours ago, Rock_n_Rolf said:

I will remind you when i am making my yearly tour through Sudetenland....

 

 

Other than that... I rather burn then eat citadels, and expecting a change of player perception just cause you understood the ship.... nah not gonna happen :D

[Nufessa]

2 ore fa, diegobrando_2019 ha scritto:

Let's be honest, if Thunderer was a russian ship, everybody would be complaining about it all the time.

Probably yes, also nobody mentioned the AA destruction she leads. I encountered a lot of potatoes tunnel visioned shooting exclusively at me for the entire match from camping positions (yes she has also a good range). Not so fun to get focused by Cv and eating a 8-9k salvo + fires + AA mounts demolished. But nevermind.

[Padds01]

On 4/28/2020 at 11:49 AM, ColonelPete said:

Fire damage is easier to repair than pens.

And the HE pens do less damage than the AP pens.

Bur he spam negates all armour is easy and reliable. AP is a lottery, im no expert and im not arguing your point but i think in thunderer's specific case the HE vomit might be by design the more effective option?

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, Padds01 said:

Bur he spam negates all armour is easy and reliable. AP is a lottery, im no expert and im not arguing your point but i think in thunderer's specific case the HE vomit might be by design the more effective option?

No.

Next time you sit in a DD and compare the damage you get from HE when you sit in a Kremlin.

HE shatters too.

 

And no, on broadside targets HE is usually the inferior option (unless it is a DD or a CL at close range).

[DFens_666]

5 minutes ago, Padds01 said:

Bur he spam negates all armour is easy and reliable. AP is a lottery, im no expert and im not arguing your point but i think in thunderer's specific case the HE vomit might be by design the more effective option?

 

People look at damage numbers and think, higher is better. HE often produces higher damage numbers, because you get to farm the opponents for a longer period of time. But a half-health ship has exactly the same firepower than one with full health, or coule be even more with AR active. Only a dead ship has no firepower any longer. HE doesnt remove enemies fast from the game (well, unless they are DDs), AP does.

Like, you get a fire on a BB, thats like 15k damage or so for you, but in reality, its 0% effecive as that guy can pop a heal and he lost no health at all to that fire.

The only exception is, when basicly everyone is firing HE at the same target, and they manage to kill that ship before it escapes and gets to use more than one heal.

 

If you shoot HE in thunderer all the time, you might be better off playing a Conqueror, as its the superior HE spammer.

[HaachamaShipping]

5 minutes ago, Padds01 said:

Bur he spam negates all armour is easy and reliable. AP is a lottery, im no expert and im not arguing your point but i think in thunderer's specific case the HE vomit might be by design the more effective option?

The thing with Thunderer really isn't how effective her HE spam is, but that the ship basically can go beyond that. If HE spam on its own was an issue, Conqueror does that crap for years already. But what Thunderer does is, it takes the HE spam potential of the Conqueror and adds a very potent AP potential ontop, so good Thunderers will actually use very competitive AP to delete ships and situationally fall back on the HE to deal with angled BBs, cruisers they don't reliably overmatch, DDs or crap like Smolensk that gets absolutely deleted by BB HE of this quality. Thunderer takes the stupidity of a Conqueror and makes it a more potent thread by surplanting what is usually one of the worst AP salvos at T10 (still an AP salvo though, don't ignore Conq AP), with a good AP salvo at the cost of overall hp you can restore, which good players will still make work, because you still have enough tankiness to work with.

 

Because if it's just HE spam from British BBs, Thunderer is no worse addition to the game as conqueror ever was and let's not forget, Conqueror has not really changed in this regard, the community just got used to it.

Spoiler

 

This is still possible as of 2020 and if you just stay at 18+ km and don't give broadside, it's no less braindead than it was in 2017. But people accepted this gameplay, because "hurrdurr, low influence damage farmer".

 

So, I guess in the end...

[howardxu_23]

8 minutes ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

The thing with Thunderer really isn't how effective her HE spam is, but that the ship basically can go beyond that. If HE spam on its own was an issue, Conqueror does that crap for years already. But what Thunderer does is, it takes the HE spam potential of the Conqueror and adds a very potent AP potential ontop, so good Thunderers will actually use very competitive AP to delete ships and situationally fall back on the HE to deal with angled BBs, cruisers they don't reliably overmatch, DDs or crap like Smolensk that gets absolutely deleted by BB HE of this quality. Thunderer takes the stupidity of a Conqueror and makes it a more potent thread by surplanting what is usually one of the worst AP salvos at T10 (still an AP salvo though, don't ignore Conq AP), with a good AP salvo at the cost of overall hp you can restore, which good players will still make work, because you still have enough tankiness to work with.

 

Because if it's just HE spam from British BBs, Thunderer is no worse addition to the game as conqueror ever was and let's not forget, Conqueror has not really changed in this regard, the community just got used to it.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 This is still possible as of 2020 and if you just stay at 18+ km and don't give broadside, it's no less braindead than it was in 2017. But people accepted this gameplay, because "hurrdurr, low influence damage farmer".

 

So, I guess in the end...

if the only thing I think requires a nerf, if you have to:
give it regular 457 BB HE
and maybe make her turrets turn a bit slower (2 degrees/s less?)
then we have a accurate and stealthy glass cannon BB, which what the conkek, or the whole RN BB line should have been

[thestaggy]

HE spam in general in this game is beyond stupid.

[Scavenger09]

4 hours ago, Beebo_The_Destroyer said:

I will remind you when i am making my yearly tour through Sudetenland....

 

 

Other than that... I rather burn then eat citadels, and expecting a change of player perception just cause you understood the ship.... nah not gonna happen :D

Jesus! You scared me! You are fookin everywhere! 

Wait you even renamed in game? 

[Xastas]

Main problem is that AP have too many RNG and counter -

  - you shoot AP at BS BB and get 2 torpedo protection hit, 1 overpen, 2 pen of which 1 is maybe just maybe citadel hit = 16.500 damage in total

  - you shoot HE at BS BB and you get 17.500 HE damage, you start 1-3 fires and kill 35% of AA and second.

 

WG implement too much protection on AP  - you got layer upon layer of protection via armor, angle, rng on dispersion and so on while HE got 0 negative modif. while having few great benefit like fire, modul destruction and so on...

 

I know that WG try to make this game more easy and brainless whit every new HE spamming OP ship like Smolensk, Haragumo and so on - but I ask how much is enough ..

 

Every Thunderer player will spam at the start and than as game go into the 10th min or so he will come more close to enemy cruiser and do what CQ can not - blap/oneshoot with AP - main problem is that I shoot on many many 40-46% WR potato i BS Yamato just to get 2900 dam in total ( now don't give me that tinfoil [edited] because I play this game since beta and have too many games where this came as obvius fact, to me and my clanmates )  so than after few of those you go with HE

[DasTongle]

15 hours ago, Rock_n_Rolf said:

Jesus! You scared me! You are fookin everywhere! 

Wait you even renamed in game? 

I am just the very harmless Beeebooo <3 

And of course i renamed here to ^^ 

Go full anschluss or go home.... i mean go all the way to prague or g... wait..... you know what i mean...

[gabberworld]

On 4/28/2020 at 2:14 PM, Dragontrn said:

 imagine you just got repaired by DCP and another fires is set by Thunderer.

 

 

i have something for you

 

 

[Verikoira]

he spam.... noting new seen that done that.... lets talk about over pen?

 

[Excavatus]

If your enemy in thunderer fires HE instead of AP from those 457mm gentelmen sticks.. 

you should be thankful to that enemy.. instead of raging :) 

[lafeel]

2 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

If your enemy in thunderer fires HE instead of AP from those 457mm gentelmen sticks.. 

you should be thankful to that enemy.. instead of raging :) 

As someone who mostly fires AP from mine, I can not agree more.

[Excavatus]

3 minutes ago, lafeel said:

As someone who mostly fires AP from mine, I can not agree more.

When I see a thunderer firing HE.. I just feel sorry for them.. then giggle a little bit.. 

because HE will be only a choice for angled / bow tanking ships with SATURATED Super structure.. 

Because those AP shells, will hit 8 to 10K salvos on a full bow in BBs on SS... 

 

Why do you buy a thunderer I ask myself.. If you gonna fire HE from that.. 

We have a ship which can do that better :) conQek says hi! 

[lafeel]

5 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

We have a ship which can do that better :) conQek says hi! 

Pretty sure that ConKek also has pretty good AP to go with said HE, while we're at it (still at the Monarch, so wouldn't know directly)

[Excavatus]

Just now, lafeel said:

Pretty sure that ConKek also has pretty good AP to go with said HE, while we're at it (still at the Monarch, so wouldn't know directly)

Oh yeah.. conQek has great AP.. 

and the best part is.. just fire HE 2 salvos.. and every enemy thinks you fire HE non stop.. change into AP.. 

and whats there? a yamato giving full broadside.. 

damn that 60K salvo really hurt eh? :D

[lafeel]

3 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

and the best part is.. just fire HE 2 salvos.. and every enemy thinks you fire HE non stop.. change into AP.. 

 

Pretty *Edited* evil trick to pull in the Thunderer, that, while we're at it.

[Danucu_Tigger]

21 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

When I see a thunderer firing HE.. I just feel sorry for them.. then giggle a little bit.. 

because HE will be only a choice for angled / bow tanking ships with SATURATED Super structure.. 

Because those AP shells, will hit 8 to 10K salvos on a full bow in BBs on SS... 

 

Why do you buy a thunderer I ask myself.. If you gonna fire HE from that.. 

We have a ship which can do that better :) conQek says hi! 

Thunderer is a strange ship to judge players by: one cannot decide if they are smarter than the average "I shoot only AP cuz' I'm a BB" to switch ammo when firing at bow tanking ships or they are just brainless HE spammers...

Had a game yesterday in my Musashi and fought a Thunderer for most of the game. He constantly kept at 18+km, basically sailing on A line to the right and then down the 10 line. He fired only HE, with a total of 58k HE damage, 11 fires and another 29k fire damage and - to my surprise - the icon saying that all my AA was gone. I mean, last time I saw that was in tier 4 or 5 games where you only get 2-3 AA machine guns! 

 

So, what's the counterplay to that?

[Yedwy]

1 hour ago, Excavatus said:

If your enemy in thunderer fires HE instead of AP from those 457mm gentelmen sticks.. 

you should be thankful to that enemy.. instead of raging :) 

Nope as I am usually firing same (or bigger) back... 

[callumwaw]

On 4/28/2020 at 4:17 PM, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

No, it just has an increased amount repairable, a shortened CD and can repair more pen and cit damage than any other T10 BB (except Conqueror). Pair that with concealment that is god tier among BBs still and a rudder shift that is also absolutely stupid for a BB and it's hard to argue that this BB is exceptionally fragile.

I find it pretty easy to melt Thunderers.  Much easier than Conquerors. True, it has more heals, but you're able to melt it while his heal is on cooldown, and it can't print a new ship. The Conqueror can do it and it's easier to survive in it.