Thunderer HE spam

[Yedwy]

6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

That happens quite rarely and yes, you can let three fires burn. Done that often enough, just make sure you can take a breather in the next 45s.

I do not run full FP on ANY of my BB. They do fine.

Then they should get better. Most people fail vs BB AP, I do not see that changed either. Not that there would be a reason to.

You can let them burn if you are in cover and not taking more damage of any kind and if you are full or nigh full hp, that however is not the case "most of the time" now is it... 3 fires will take what 40-60% of your HP depending on the build you have some 10-20% of HP you will lose from splash damage of the Thunderer shells that lit them, so its gonna be close call every time you let them burn like that, and thats if (and I stress IF) you can get in cover and unspotted which is not something entirely dependent of your actions alone, unless you intend to be 20 km away the whole fight that is...

 

Again I am not arguing that fire mechanic should go as such but some ships are just ridiculous due to insane fire chance compared to their shell output or just on individual shells but at least their He alpha is smaller and creates less acute situation but the brit BB line is simply demented esp the high tiers

[steveraptor]

16 minutes ago, Cyclops_ said:

 

I can't believe you forgot "radar is OP plz nerf".

[Cyclops_]

2 minutes ago, steveraptor said:

I can't believe you forgot "radar is OP plz nerf".

You don't need radar to spot a BB unless it is hiding behind an island.

[SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue]

37 minutes ago, Dragontrn said:

Yeah, i know Smolensk is a HE spammer but the chance i got on fire by Thunderer is higher than that Smolensk, imagine you just got repaired by DCP and another fires is set by Thunderer. It is disgusting, and i cant angle it =)))

 

 

I love your avatar Yedwy

Well, in fact if you look at RoF you will find that the sheer numbers of shells AND the reload time AND the fact is a much smaller target - all that combined give Smolensk a MUCH MUCH bigger chance to set fire on a Thunderer than the opposite.

In fact, I fear a lot more the smolensk pest than a Thunderer. Not to say a decent Thunderer skipper will use AP on broadside targets ( AP are A LOT more dev. than HE !) .

[ColonelPete]

8 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

You can let them burn if you are in cover and not taking more damage of any kind and if you are full or nigh full hp, that however is not the case "most of the time" now is it... 3 fires will take what 40-60% of your HP depending on the build you have some 10-20% of HP you will lose from splash damage of the Thunderer shells that lit them, so its gonna be close call every time you let them burn like that, and thats if (and I stress IF) you can get in cover and unspotted which is not something entirely dependent of your actions alone, unless you intend to be 20 km away the whole fight that is...

 

Again I am not arguing that fire mechanic should go as such but some ships are just ridiculous due to insane fire chance compared to their shell output or just on individual shells but at least their He alpha is smaller and creates less acute situation but the brit BB line is simply demented esp the high tiers

Three fires do 31.2% damage on ALL my BB.

[Corvi]

1 hour ago, Dragontrn said:

i mean, when my ship got 3 fires by that ship, i must push the Damage control Party, i think everybody will do the same ? But after the immunity time, another hit set my ship on fire with 2 more fires. What do u think

There are some tricks to minimize damage taken. For example, press dmgcon just when he fires his second salvo, that way you gonna be immune to fires for that hit. Third salvo use repair Party to mitigate fire dmg, by the time fourth salvo comes your Damage control will be close to ready again. Cycle through repair party and dmg con in 1 - 1-1/2 salvo timeframes, that way you will always have something to help you out a little. 
if you repair the first fires instantly you get set on fire with the second salvo insanely, and then you are „naked“. 

[Dragontrn]

Well, 63% chance to set fire with 22s reload, now i see why. The fire come with price, it just too OP for me. 

Anyway, i don't know how to manage fire when i got 2-3 fires after my DCP ran off, and not every time my ship is  full HP to handle it 

[HaachamaShipping]

3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Three fires do 31.2% damage on ALL my BB.

31% of hp gone and requiring very careful and passive play from my enemy till they recover is already a great outcome for a Conq/Thunderer. and with the great range on these BBs, being far enough away to not get set on fire again means going to another flank.

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

31% of hp gone and requiring very careful and passive play from my enemy till they recover is already a great outcome for a Conq/Thunderer. and with the great range on these BBs, being far enough away to not get set on fire again means going to another flank.

Of which I heal 16.8% on most of my BB, more on some. That leaves 14.4% damage, that I have to deal with my next repair.

[DFens_666]

10 minutes ago, Dragontrn said:

Well, 63% chance to set fire with 22s reload,

 

In reality, its only ~half of that due to fire resistance. TX ships have roughly 50%, lower tier ships have less.

[HaachamaShipping]

7 minutes ago, Corvi said:

There are some tricks to minimize damage taken. For example, press dmgcon just when he fires his second salvo, that way you gonna be immune to fires for that hit. Third salvo use repair Party to mitigate fire dmg, by the time fourth salvo comes your Damage control will be close to ready again. Cycle through repair party and dmg con in 1 - 1-1/2 salvo timeframes, that way you will always have something to help you out a little. 
if you repair the first fires instantly you get set on fire with the second salvo insanely, and then you are „naked“. 

Given reload is about 23s, Letting 3 fires burn for even just 10s costs you about 10% of your hp pool. By the time second salvo hits, you likely can use first repair, because you have taken 20k from HE damage and the fire damage, allowing enough to be repaired to make it worthwhile. If you activate damage control on the second salvo, given the base CD of damecon is 80s, with all improvements it typically still is 65s (that is flag + JoAT and HE, non-special commander), so you have a damecon every third salvo, and repair every third salvo. Good luck alternating that.

7 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Of which I heal 16.8% on most of my BB, more on some. That leaves 14.4% damage, that I have to deal with my next repair.

+ the raw damage and it's two wasted repair charges. It is better than eating cits, but eating cits can be avoided. Eating HE + fires can't. And no BB usually loses over a third of its hp pool to a mere AP salvo when angled (unless you get overmatched hard). Even if repairable, it's absolutely stupid.

[Itwastuesday]

Why not just make a very tanky and fast battleship with 8 smolensk turrets? :)

[Scavenger09]

1 hour ago, Yedwy said:

Ok Ill bite - how?

Don't play into their cards. Don't push into them, focus on important targets and adjust your positioning to avoid being prime target for far too long.

+ Good management of concealment (if possible with CV's around) and damage control.

Keep in mind that you will not beat them in late game because your hp is mostly depleted due to tanking while they are full because they spammed HE on 20km. So just try to make your early-mid game as effective as possible and kill rest of their team.

[Scavenger09]

Is that profile pic from 1989's Death Or Glory album? @Itwastuesday 

[Itwastuesday]

Just now, Rock_n_Rolf said:

Is that profile pic from 1989's Death Or Glory album? @Itwastuesday 

Yes, great album for ship battles :)

[BrusilovX]

1 hour ago, Dragontrn said:

At least i know he aim well, but i rarely see a thunderer shooting AP

I shoot AP in all my BBs in preference to HE.   The only time HE is used when they are bow on and only after I've tried some AP into the superstructure.

 

Mind you, I've not go the Conqueror.....

[VanD4rk]

29 minutes ago, Rock_n_Rolf said:

Don't play into their cards. Don't push into them, focus on important targets and adjust your positioning to avoid being prime target for far too long.

+ Good management of concealment (if possible with CV's around) and damage control.

Keep in mind that you will not beat them in late game because your hp is mostly depleted due to tanking while they are full because they spammed HE on 20km. So just try to make your early-mid game as effective as possible and kill rest of their team.

 

That is a good advise on which I try to play ships like Kurfurst against the Conq/Thunderer.

The problem I face is if I am in the Kurfurst (every single HE spammer in the opposite team will start fapping seeing this juicy target) and I spawn in an open water against Conq/Thunderer I am facing 2 option imo:

1 - I try to help the flank but I will be burned to death no matter how good I can use the DCP and repair. Long range fight in GK against Conq/Thunderer is a loss.

2 - I sail the fat ship around the nearest island for cover  and I wait for middle game for the HE BB to approach( this is a happy situation) or I sail it to the other flank in which case I will be that BB guy that I usually hate which not supports the flank on which he spawned. If I am the only BB in that place, this "little maneuver" will have a chain reaction that the cruisers and DDs might follow me because the flank is not supported by a BB(and I understand them). 

 

I don't have this problem with the fast BBs but is a curse to play GK if I spawn in a wide area of a map against long range HE spammers.

Having this said, what you guys will choose, or are there other options that work better?

 

[callumwaw]

2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

As I wrote: that fires are easy to repair....

Great piece of advice, particularly valid for ships like the Hipper, which don't have a repair party ;) 

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, callumwaw said:

Great piece of advice, particularly valid for ships like the Hipper, which don't have a repair party ;) 

The usual problem is fires on BB.

Cruiser have a lower fire duration and usually shorter cooldown on damage control.

And since AP is much more devastating on cruisers, I am always happy when a BB shoots only HE at my cruisers.

[Humorpalanta]

I seriously don't get people. :D YYou are crying about a BB which basically melts under fire.

 

Conq and Thunderer have weak armor. They are extremely easy to farm. 6-8k loss from an HE volley on those BBs is basically like breathing. Happens all the time. They have good guns and a nice heal but they start from less HP and they cannot shatter shells. If a BB hits them it is almost certainly a citadel unless he is very unlucky. And as I have mentioned even HE does a LOT of damage on those. Haven't even touched torps yet...

 

Yes, they can be annoying and you might some lose HP and you might have to be careful after that but they can be easily taken care of. It is not an effin Kremlin which has to be nuked.

[callumwaw]

13 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

The usual problem is fires on BB.

Cruiser have a lower fire duration and usually shorter cooldown on damage control.

And since AP is much more devastating on cruisers, I am always happy when a BB shoots only HE at my cruisers.

Good point, but an HE salvo from a Thunderer can easily damage your for half of your health in a cruiser like Hipper. 

 

Still, if he fired AP instead of HE, we would have killed you immediately :) 

 

Fortunately it's less likely since desync became a thing. 

[callumwaw]

2 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

 

Conq and Thunderer have weak armor. They are extremely easy to farm.

Especially the Thunderer, which can't print another ship with its heal. 

[HaachamaShipping]

3 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

If a BB hits them it is almost certainly a citadel unless he is very unlucky.

2 BBs in the game, 3 if you are generous, can overmatch 32 mm. So, no. Also, eating more HE pens from cruisers is not too punishing when you have 60-75% repairability on that damage and either a superheal or just a very generous short CD heal.

6 minutes ago, callumwaw said:

Especially the Thunderer, which can't print another ship with its heal. 

No, it just has an increased amount repairable, a shortened CD and can repair more pen and cit damage than any other T10 BB (except Conqueror). Pair that with concealment that is god tier among BBs still and a rudder shift that is also absolutely stupid for a BB and it's hard to argue that this BB is exceptionally fragile.

[Puffin_]

 

But Thunderer is U.K Battleship not a U.S.S.R Battleship

So it does not matter if she is the worst long range fire starter and sniper in the game.

Remember: NOT U.S.S.R Battleship

Purr  Purr Purr  Purr  Purr  Purr  Purr  Purr  Purr 

[hellhound666]

6 hours ago, Dragontrn said:

I'm getting bored to play against Thunderer with HE spam, almost every game now, when i see a thunderer, i'm pretty sure he gonna spam HE, even broad side, those players never use AP. And the chance of fire is so incredible,  1 salvo 3 fires,  after my ship got repaired, another hit with 2 fires. I prefer that i got hit on citadel than catching fire like this he spammer.

its not just thunderer, everybody is spamming he and only he