Concealment Expert

[DrMechano]

In my opinion either remove it entirely or just bake it in to every ship and replace it with another tier 4 skill. Lets be honest EVERYONE still takes concealment expert unless you're building a very specific build (usually meme secondaries).

 

Ok lets say you're a new player and your playing DDs, finally get your way up to tier 5 and you've managed a 6 point captain. You're already at a disadvantage because someone with a 10 point captain gets 10% better concealment than you, they are, just flat out better in a very key area. Guns, well it depends on the DD but EVERY DD and hell almost every ship needs concealment expert. At this point it's basically a 4 point tax. So yeah, either bake it in or remove it entirely IMO.

[ColonelPete]

There are still enough people who decide against it and for a good reason.

[kfa]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

There are still enough people who decide against it and for a good reason.

name two

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, kfa said:

name two

All my mid Tier CL with HE take IFHE first and most of them do not have 14 point captains.

[Ouzo11]

Just now, kfa said:

name two

Me
I dont have it neither on harugumo nor on smolensk

[Ruth_clifton]

will   you  want   2

[The_Finnster]

No CE Onmy khaba, either.

 

also....of course, someone who has more skill points is at an advantage...

that’s the point! 

[jss78]

18 minutes ago, Ouzo11 said:

Me
I dont have it neither on harugumo nor on smolensk

 

Also commonly not used on CV's. I use it on IJN CV's to as they don't need torp acceleration or demolition expert, but benefit of low-concealment torpedo bombers. But not on USN or RN.

 

5 minutes ago, The_Finnster said:

No CE Onmy khaba, either.

 

also....of course, someone who has more skill points is at an advantage...

that’s the point! 

 

Well it's a valid debate to have. The detection indicator used to be skill but was made a universal UI feature because everyone picked it first.

 

I don't think CE is quite there. But IMO the skill could use another small nerf in the percentage values until people start to consider their options in the 4-pt slot.

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 33 Minuten, kfa sagte:

name two

Not needed in coop (sure about that, because I'm a coop main)

Not necessarily useful for gunboats where you might need the points for gunnery skills and fire your guns as often as you can - thereby revealing you continuosly (guessing, because I don't play gunboats if I can avoid it)

 

[Molly_Delaney]

yeah, I've found I do better with RPF as my first 4pt skill, probably because I play more aggressively.

but then I add CE, so.......

 

Warspite with RPF is hysterical........

[Zemeritt]

Yes, why not give every skill for free?

 

So noone can make mistakes

[CptBarney]

2 minutes ago, Zemeritt said:

Yes, why not give every skill for free?

 

So noone can make mistakes

Gib pudding and biscuits their special abilities while screaming japanese at ‘healthy’ volume levels.

[Itwastuesday]

Even if concealment expert was taken out, the other choices aren't really exciting. Roll manual secondaries and massive AA fire into one skill perhaps, and have another, new option on that tier.

[AnotherDuck]

7 hours ago, jss78 said:

The detection indicator used to be skill but was made a universal UI feature because everyone picked it first.

I didn't pick it on some ships. Didn't need it most of the time on BBs, nor on IJN DDs with their low concealment meaning you'll see anything that spots you anyway. I usually picked it eventually, but I had other skills I prioritised.

 

Concealment Expert is less universal, though.

[ForlornSailor]

The discussion about concealment in general is a valid one. I wouldnt limit it to the captain skill tho. The module, thats available at T8, separtes especially DDs heavily. And I think thats unfair. On other classes, this is maybe not as big of a deal, but for DDs this is "live or die" question for almost all of them.

 

And in general, there are only a few ships where I dont run CE. Kiev, Tashkent, Helena, Dallas - rest I would need to look up but list is almost complete. Same for the concealment module. So when something is such a "must pick" in >95% of the cases, I think there is a point in argueing, that it might need to change.

[Migantium_Mashum]

15 hours ago, DrMechano said:

In my opinion either remove it entirely or just bake it in to every ship and replace it with another tier 4 skill. Lets be honest EVERYONE still takes concealment expert unless you're building a very specific build (usually meme secondaries).

 

Ok lets say you're a new player and your playing DDs, finally get your way up to tier 5 and you've managed a 6 point captain. You're already at a disadvantage because someone with a 10 point captain gets 10% better concealment than you, they are, just flat out better in a very key area. Guns, well it depends on the DD but EVERY DD and hell almost every ship needs concealment expert. At this point it's basically a 4 point tax. So yeah, either bake it in or remove it entirely IMO.

Every DD main has gone through this... the minute you get to level 10 problem solved... in the mean time you play to your ship strengths.

 

I mean how easy do you want this game?

[Procrastes]

14 hours ago, Molly_Delaney said:

Warspite with RPF is hysterical........

You use Radio Location on the Warspite? Whatever for? 

Do you use it to anticipate torpedoes from stealth-upped destroyers, or do you actually chase down and bag said destroyers? Now that is one boat-chase I'd like to see on film...!

[Molly_Delaney]

Ambush prevention, and to get the guns pointing in the right direction.

 

Kind of a 'Surprise [redacted]' for poor unsuspecting players...

Plus it tends to freak people out when they get that 'detected' alert.....

[iFax]

15 hours ago, DrMechano said:

In my opinion either remove it entirely or just bake it in to every ship and replace it with another tier 4 skill. Lets be honest EVERYONE still takes concealment expert unless you're building a very specific build (usually meme secondaries).

 

Ok lets say you're a new player and your playing DDs, finally get your way up to tier 5 and you've managed a 6 point captain. You're already at a disadvantage because someone with a 10 point captain gets 10% better concealment than you, they are, just flat out better in a very key area. Guns, well it depends on the DD but EVERY DD and hell almost every ship needs concealment expert. At this point it's basically a 4 point tax. So yeah, either bake it in or remove it entirely IMO.

So, what about the "unique upgrades" that fit in the concealment slot?

[Procrastes]

28 minutes ago, Molly_Delaney said:

Ambush prevention, and to get the guns pointing in the right direction.

 

Kind of a 'Surprise [redacted]' for poor unsuspecting players...

Plus it tends to freak people out when they get that 'detected' alert.....

Psychological warfare... I like it! 

[jss78]

48 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

And in general, there are only a few ships where I dont run CE. Kiev, Tashkent, Helena, Dallas - rest I would need to look up but list is almost complete. Same for the concealment module. So when something is such a "must pick" in >95% of the cases, I think there is a point in argueing, that it might need to change.

I'm curious, why do you not use it on Dallas and Helena? Is it because you use islands so heavily for concealment?

[cracktrackflak]

1 hour ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

Every DD main has gone through this... the minute you get to level 10 problem solved... in the mean time you play to your ship strengths.

 

I mean how easy do you want this game?

 

 

Not a problem as such for a veteran player, but the point about noobs being at an unfair disadvantage is very valid (if there are any noobs joining WG games, that is....).

 

 

[Migantium_Mashum]

1 minute ago, cracktrackflak said:

 

 

Not a problem as such for a veteran player, but the point about noobs being at an unfair disadvantage is very valid (if there are any noobs joining WG games, that is....).

 

 

We're all noobs when we start... Every veteran player came through the same disadvantages this guy is complaining about....

 

Again, how easy do people want this game to be? There have to be distinctions between levels or else what's the point....

[HassenderZerhacker]

16 hours ago, DrMechano said:

In my opinion either remove it entirely or just bake it in to every ship and replace it with another tier 4 skill. Lets be honest EVERYONE still takes concealment expert unless you're building a very specific build (usually meme secondaries).

 

Ok lets say you're a new player and your playing DDs, finally get your way up to tier 5 and you've managed a 6 point captain. You're already at a disadvantage because someone with a 10 point captain gets 10% better concealment than you, they are, just flat out better in a very key area. Guns, well it depends on the DD but EVERY DD and hell almost every ship needs concealment expert. At this point it's basically a 4 point tax. So yeah, either bake it in or remove it entirely IMO.

 

Giving it for free seems excessive, but I admit I had the same thoughts when playing DD.

 

In tier 6+ battles, without CE, it's impossible to be in a spotter role. You better have long range torps and pray for the CV to leave you alone.

 

In tier 4-5 battles, sealclubbers with experienced captains do have an obvious unfair advantage.

 

My proposal would be to inactivate the skill on DD and give all DD better concealment values.

[DFens_666]

1 hour ago, iFax said:

So, what about the "unique upgrades" that fit in the concealment slot?

 

I never liked the approach of LMs in 2 slots, as those in the concealment slot are at a bigger disadvantage than those in the 6th slot.

For me, most of the 5th slot LMs are actually garbage, while almost all 6th slot mods are excellent.

 

Yamato, Zao, Moskva, DM - all excellent. GK is decent too, and i dont think Repus is bad either.

The only 5th slot LMs somewhat ok are Henri, Gearing and Mino. And they are mostly just sidegrades, while the Mino LM is only useful with Smoke and Smoke mod, which is totaly overkill btw, i tried it even.