Tier X Gameplay is worst than ever - what are doing WG ?!

[HassenderZerhacker]

15 minutes ago, Mahaaret said:

TX game play is shambolic, the ships are incredibly unbalanced, the best tiers for balance are T6 and under, TX is simply a mess

well, that stops at tier 5, because below, it's CV a orgy.

 

that doesn't leave many "balanced areas" in the game.

[Yedwy]

There are no balanced tiers at all save maybe those none really play, these being T1&2 and even there its questonable if they are balanced or simply so irelevant nobody cares...

[Kiagy]

12 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

well, that stops at tier 5, because below, it's CV a orgy.

 

that doesn't leave many "balanced areas" in the game.

Well possibly right, but T6 and under is more balanced than above T6, but i do see your point, but i see no point in the shambolic mess at T9 and T10

[Padds01]

11 hours ago, Unknown_Lifeform said:

 

Wargaming actually tried this not so long ago. In an uncharacteristic display of bravery they put their heads above the parapet and floated the idea of rebalancing premium ships but the community (or at least that proportion of it that had paid money for said ships) reacted so negatively they binned the idea. Taking OP or toxic premiums out of circulation and watching the population slowly diminish represents the route of least resistance for them.

yeah and that argument would hold water but they dont remove them do they? they go join the Op fleet in santa crates, where year in year out people spend thousands chasing hoping to get to own one of "those" ships.

 

Of course people who paid a lot of money for a broken ship are going to be upset about getting balanced, but i struggle to believe the fallout would actually be worse than what we have which is going to be a year plus of having up to ten (to be fair its usually 6 but thats still too many) of these floating mistakes ruining every single game.

 

if they actually wanted to fix it its not like it would be hard. 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

2 hours ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

The punishment for said violation is having to play the Ocean Map for 10 consecutive games... 

 

 

 

If you call that a punishment, I'm gonna be a real naughty boy.

[Migantium_Mashum]

1 minute ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

If you call that a punishment, I'm gonna be a real naughty boy.

Me too...

[Yedwy]

4 minutes ago, Mahaaret said:

Well possibly right, but T6 and under is more balanced than above T6, but i do see your point, but i see no point in the shambolic mess at T9 and T10

Mid tiers are balanced only for BBs TBH...

 

Cruisers at mid tiers suffer badly due to lack of BB shell bouncing plate (lets not forget there are 16" guns as low as T6 nowadays) and lack of heal every mistake is a petmanent one and due to overmatch you dont even have to make one to get blapped... Also since many lines dont get their nations flavour (radar, thick plate etc) they are rather gimped...

 

DDs also suffer because they cant slot the concealment module, yes thry still outspot tje BBs and cruisers but due to usually low torp range in comparison to the spotting distance and overall mediore gun options the DDs are rather hard to shine there esp with CVs around

 

CVs of T6 are much less powerful then their T8+ cousins and face more AA then those of T4 but that AA us mostly situated on BBs only couple of cruisers can even hope to defens thenselves so the mid tier CVs cam just cr*p on DDs and cruisers and avoid BBs until they are softened by the HE spam afrer which its farming time...

[Captain_Breeze]

If you had MM consider both PR of the players and Ships for radar etc. You know, to try and balance the same amount of radar in each team along with balancing the skill levels to be as equal as possible, would that then not make the algorithm required make the waiting time for a match to begin, far too long.

 

Young kids don't get the intricacies of this game to be fair, generally speaking. There are plenty of them playing just now due to COVID-19 lock down.

 

If you have bad players in your team, you have to hope that the enemy also have bad players, if not then you are screwed, but I never give up, you must try and win if you can.

 

I also think that the better a player becomes, the more he or she will notice bad players and get triggered by this. You must try and remember that you too were once a noob, I know I was 

 

I suppose at the end of the day, we just have to accept how it is. 

 

 

[Excavatus]

Ladies and gentelmen, 

Can we please tone down the discussions a little bit. 

Just with the personal remarks part.. 

 

consider this as a very very friendly reminder! 

[Aethervoxx]

33 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

There are no balanced tiers at all save maybe those none really play, these being T1&2 and even there its questonable if they are balanced or simply so irelevant nobody cares...

Even T1 can be unbalanced. Wasn't there some guy who played exclusively on a T1 ship with, ofc, a 19 pt Cpt? 

[Bratoev]

Just my two cents. Tiers are mostly the same. Communicating with randoms beyond the preset messages goes a long way to help the team. 

Also progression while getting faster is not that different from what was laid down in the begining. Difference is even if someone with 10k battles restarts now and starts from scratch they will progress faster even above what was already streamlined by WG so the view in that regard is skewed.

Finally people that pay keep the game alive. If I as a 1,7k games potato want to free XP my way to T10 why shouldn't I?

[Dutchy_2019]

My thoughts based on the original question, and trying to keep MM talk to a minimum:

 

* The high amount of HE spammers in higher tiers, a number of them with their own (long) smokes. This IMHO can be solved in a number of ways:

  - Take ships out of the game. Might actually work for Smolensk, Colbert and the Japanese ones. 

  - Caps matchmaking.

  - Change damage mechanics for HE. That can be done through lower fire chance numbers, reduce the damage fires can do, reduce the length of fires, all that kind of thing.

 

* The camping

  - Punish campers somehow; the problem is though that WG has done everything it can to actually ENCOURAGE camping due to the properties of the ships it has brought out.

 

* ANY ship that immediately from the beginning from the game crosses over and moves to the other flank gets 100 XP maximum. And NO awards.

 

* Tutorials, make them an integral part of the game.

 

* Make campaigns perhaps tier staggered?

   - Quite a few campaigns push you to play high tiers a lot (Swirski campaign an obvious one). One month of potatoing through T8-10 vs months of collecting coal, the choice is very easy if you want to get Swirski.

   - Even those campaigns that can be doable from T5 and up seem to me to be more efficient to do in high tiers compared to low tiers. A high tier loss might still net you more than a mid-tier average performance.

 

* XP earning

  - Bad play can still be rewarded with high rank and high XP earnings. So the player probably thinks he still does good.

 

* Failure reinforces failure

 - What should motivate a player to protect his/her flank when the rest of the team abandons him/her and he/she gets focus-fired to death within minutes?

 - Why should a player even try to push when it comes down to suicide on may occasions for various reasons.

 - Issues with up-tiering, especially 2 Tiers up. The differences in capabilities for many ships are massive; and in many ways too big to overcome for most players, and there are only two ways to overcome that: play extremely passive, or rush to T10.

 

Other aspects  probably have to do with human nature

 

- The final tier always has the appeal of being the most prestigeous. 

- Playing high tier gives one the feeling of being able to 'look down' upon those playing lower tiers.

- The way - in general - lower and middle tiers are looked at, or rather looked down at by WG, a significant and (loud) segment of the community, does not encourage people from staying there.

- Not many of the more popular streamers seem play mostly top tiers (T9 and T10) by their own choice, or -when they react to requests - often the request is to play T9 and T10.

 

 

 

 

[Captain_Breeze]

2 minutes ago, Dutchy_2019 said:

* The high amount of HE spammers in higher tiers,

I would agree that the Smolensk does encourage campers, cause who wants to push into that HE spam.

 

The fact that when you hit the Smolensk, it is inevitable that you just get overpens. That will infuriate folk. 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

2 minutes ago, Captain_Breeze said:

I would agree that the Smolensk does encourage campers, cause who wants to push into that HE spam.

 

The fact that when you hit the Smolensk, it is inevitable that you just get overpens. That will infuriate folk. 

 

Smolensk, when hit badly, can lose up to something like 75% of its hps in less than a second. Don't ask how I know this....

[Captain_Breeze]

1 minute ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Smolensk, when hit badly, can lose up to something like 75% of its hps in less than a second. Don't ask how I know this....

You need to tell me......

 

I live in overpen city man.

 

You surely don't get constant 75% hp hits on her, do you? 

[HaachamaShipping]

3 hours ago, Excavatus said:

you really trying to find points to pick on eh? 

 

No SBMM discussion (HERE) because we have an MM discussion thread, and If we go for that in here, this topic will turn obsolete.. 

No "don't sell prem ships to noobs" discussion either, because it is completely pointless since WG will not do that ever.. 

I'm just saying, don't waste time on things which willl not change and discussed here to death, and lets try to create new ideas. 

Because saying the same thing over and over and over and over again 1000 times.. does not make them happen magically. 

The issue is that it isn't just 1 or 2 concepts that come up all the time and get rejected, it's a whole array of things that realistically won't happen anytime soon, because WG is obviously not interested. And the issues that people have with MM basically are in there. The only changes WG ever made to matchmaking was to tiers and number of CVs and DDs (because DD overpopulation was a thing, I guess?) Nothing of that changes really the meta in high tiers, nothing of that changes the basic concept of how people progress in the game, basically, if we are not allowed to discuss what WG is not going to implement, we might as well not discuss the very issue of how absolutely braindead much of the player base at high tier is, because that is not going to change and WG has been extremely reluctant to ever do anything to address this, with the only step being the "How it Works" series, that is on an external media and only came into being after WG threw out the idea of any kind of tutorial.

 

And sure, saying it is pointless to discuss is a realistic approach, but then spare us the thing about coming up with new ideas to solve old problems that exist because virtually none of the measures that could ever be implemented to fix it were implemented and WG seems utterly uninterested to ever do something about it. Just say it's pointless and don't try to dodge the issue. I though that was the job of the likes of Conway and other staff, not of mere moderators that just make sure we aren't getting personal and/or spam around.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

3 minutes ago, Captain_Breeze said:

You need to tell me......

 

I live in overpen city man.

 

You surely don't get constant 75% hp hits on her, do you? 

 

Not constant, usually the ones that come from over long ranges seem to do the most damage.

[Captain_Breeze]

1 minute ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Not constant, usually the ones that come from long range seem to do the most damage.

Ah, but then, for me anyway, hitting a long distance Smol is tricky, she is a very agile ship. So getting that long distance shot off is (to me at least) a 1 in 10 chance.

 

But thanks for your feed back @Karasu_Hidesuke 

[Yedwy]

43 minutes ago, Aethervoxx said:

Even T1 can be unbalanced. Wasn't there some guy who played exclusively on a T1 ship with, ofc, a 19 pt Cpt? 

Yep the guy that went into rant mode when they decided to remove AP shells from Black Swan and give her HE

[Camperdown]

3 hours ago, T0L0S said:

 

Difference is, WoWS is a COMPUTER GAME, not a real game. So you can't compare with those, you have to compare with other computer games, and when you do, your comment falls flat on its arse. 

 

So yea, not incorrect at all. 

The one game I am very familiar with is Gran Turismo. You start in the noob class and advance to professional. Literally, they have world championships.

 

And you are fast and loose with calling people you don't know and know nothing about liar. Not positive for conversation.

[Molly_Delaney]

Gran Turismo Sport is about the only exception to the rule that Computer Games don't enforce skill based matching, Asset Corsa Competition (Italian word used) is another and maybe iRacing.

 

In the free to play area the only ranked game I can recall is America's Army which made players complete a training course before going online, but it was a thinly disguised recruiting tool for the US Army.

 

The vast majority of Computer Games make no distinction between very experienced players and raw new players. The latest Mingles with Jingles he even talks about a specific cross-roads in one MMORPG where high tier players specifically raided npcs and low tiers who (fought back) to gain cheap xp.

 

Game authors want big playerbases, the way to get big playerbases is to NOT have an experience/knowledge based matching system for play.

Also if you only match by skill then everyone tends to 50% WR thus eliminating the point.......

 

 

Tier 10 battles are actually a highly accurate simulation of real combat, half don't have a clue what they're doing, there's always a boot lieutenant who thinks they know and a whole bunch who run and hide........

 

 

Apologies for wall of text.

 

[Bratoev]

People want to make Random Games in to something its not supposed to be. It should be a mosh pit of everything rather then the segregation everyone wants. Improving the gameplay is something that the community can change by actually speaking with each other in game and after battle. 

There is still a bare minimum of games you need to reach T10. I could start a new account and buy myself a premium immediately and I will still need to grind my [edited]retarded for the free XP to reach T10.

Btw to anyone wanting Skill Based MM I would direct you to Armored Warfare who implemented it and are one of the many corpses beneath the threads of World of Tanks so WG must be doing something right in the Random Battles MM.

[MrConway]

4 hours ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

Yes Tier X games are becoming a pain, yes it appears that so many Premium Ship Captains haven't got a clue how the game works...

 

I have an idea that might fix the camping, Island hugging Numpties...

 

We can report players for various things in game so why not camping?

If the team feels a specific player IS NOT playing as part of the team they can report said player as a camper non participant... there are 12 players in random so if a player gets 6 or more camper votes he gets punished. The team decides in game there and then, after all they are in their game are they not...

 

The punishment for said violation is having to play the Ocean Map for 10 consecutive games...  With the amount of campers in game they'll not wait long for their games.

 

Or WG @MrConway why not introduce more maps with fewer Islands or bring the Ocean map back?  (I miss Ocean)

 

 

Because then people complain that they play on ocean too often ;)

 

Its impossible to please everyone unfortunately.

[Migantium_Mashum]

27 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

Because then people complain that they play on ocean too often ;)

 

Its impossible to please everyone unfortunately.

I have had two Ocean Map Games in just over a year... I am curious as to why they don't come into play more given other maps rotate frequently (even repeat).....

I mean twice a month is that too much to ask (Gawd, that brings back memories... I used to say that to the Ex Wife)

 

In my opinion, Ocean is an amazing map and in randoms everyone must play as a team...

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 5 Minuten, Migantium_Mashum sagte:

I mean twice a month is that too much to ask

Looking at the avatar: The activity in question was shaving?