Tier X Gameplay is worst than ever - what are doing WG ?!

[geraldkacka]

yea evry tier X battle going worse and worse , with battleship every shot got overpen and nothing a ridiculous damagevery disappointed.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

3 hours ago, Hanse77SWE said:

Even T10 co-op is a campfest these days.

Damn, I been busted

[Hopeless_Guppy]

Whose fault is it though, Wargaming's, the players, or clans who wish to play tier 10's?

[slenderman478]

1 hour ago, Camperdown said:

Oh, and by the way, there are way too many islands in the maps. It invites camping.

Where did you get this from? Islands are a great tool to play aggressively, it depends on how islands are placed. If you have islands 10km away from the caps, ofc it's gonna be campy. But take maps like Sea of Fortune, where you can force aggressive plays and close engagements, which is actually enjoyable. Completely open waters on the other hand will just make things even more campy, because literally everyone can shoot at you if you move out of spawn. 
The actual problem aren't islands, it's that people like to sit back, even if there are opportunities to do something. That's simply because they don't care. At all.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

2 minutes ago, slenderman478 said:

Where did you get this from? Islands are a great tool to play aggressively, it depends on how islands are placed. If you have islands 10km away from the caps, ofc it's gonna be campy. But take maps like Sea of Fortune, where you can force aggressive plays and close engagements, which is actually enjoyable. Completely open waters on the other hand will just make things even more campy, because literally everyone can shoot at you if you move out of spawn. 
The actual problem aren't islands, it's that people like to sit back, even if there are opportunities to do something. That's simply because they don't care. At all.

 

It's aggressive for HE spamming DD's and cruisers that are not battleworthy otherwise, but you'd be surprised how many teams are interested in finding out how many BB's they can fit behind one tiny rock....

[Verblonde]

3 hours ago, ArmasP said:

Delay Subs to late 20020 Christmas

FTFY

[Floofz]

Well Ive been the decision tonight with the 25% WR I have and TERRIBLE PR because I have no chance to do anything because my team either doesnt do anything or completely falls apart so quickly I get overrun. I REFUSE to ever again play a single game of world of warships without a good 3 man division.

This game is simply not playable anymore as a solo player.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

4 minutes ago, Floofz said:

Well Ive been the decision tonight with the 25% WR I have and TERRIBLE PR because I have no chance to do anything because my team either doesnt do anything or completely falls apart so quickly I get overrun. I REFUSE to ever again play a single game of world of warships without a good 3 man division.

This game is simply not playable anymore as a solo player.

 

Play only ships of the Special Nation, a whole new game will open up before you, comrade.

[Floofz]

38 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

Play only ships of the Special Nation, a whole new game will open up before you, comrade.

 

Its hardly a ship issue, its a matchmaking issue. I used to get angry for losing all the time, but back then I used to think also that if I lost I could work on getting better so I could carry the teams to victory instead, and that usually resulted in good games even thou we still lost.

Now however its a completely different story. The games are so extremely onesided that you have no chance of doing anything, not only is my WR dropping like a stone but also my PR and Average damage. And if I didnt care about that then its simply a fact of not having fun, the games are simply not fun, at all. Its one major exercise in frustration, nothing else.

Ive stuck around for a while, even thou I barely play random battles anymore. Ive played more the last few weeks but in the past year or so I think Ive averaged maybe 5 battles a week. I still love the game and will probably always do, but the matchmaker kills it, kills it completely and entirely. I still have a year left, Ill prob stick around but I wont play one single random battle without a division, ever. And after that year well see, I doubt Ill continue cause I doubt itll get better.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

18 minutes ago, Floofz said:

 

Its hardly a ship issue, its a matchmaking issue. I used to get angry for losing all the time, but back then I used to think also that if I lost I could work on getting better so I could carry the teams to victory instead, and that usually resulted in good games even thou we still lost.

Now however its a completely different story. The games are so extremely onesided that you have no chance of doing anything, not only is my WR dropping like a stone but also my PR and Average damage. And if I didnt care about that then its simply a fact of not having fun, the games are simply not fun, at all. Its one major exercise in frustration, nothing else.

Ive stuck around for a while, even thou I barely play random battles anymore. Ive played more the last few weeks but in the past year or so I think Ive averaged maybe 5 battles a week. I still love the game and will probably always do, but the matchmaker kills it, kills it completely and entirely. I still have a year left, Ill prob stick around but I wont play one single random battle without a division, ever. And after that year well see, I doubt Ill continue cause I doubt itll get better.

 

Right, but if you just thinking about what's best for you, and if you feel you can't depend on the team much which is sadly very typical in randoms.... the best you can do is find the ships that work the best for you, meaning which give you the best results with the optimal effort. Otherwise you will get easily frustrated because you aren't getting anything even close out of the game of what you are putting in it.

[Floofz]

2 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

Right, but if you just thinking about what's best for you, and if you feel you can't depend on the team much which is sadly very typical in randoms.... the best you can do is find the ships that work the best for you, meaning which give you the best results with the optimal effort. Otherwise you will get easily frustrated because you aren't getting anything even close out of the game of what you are putting in it.

 

No such ship exists, the closest is IJN torp boats I guess.

BBs you cant play because you get no support and no spotting. DDs in general are hard to play because you get no support from cruisers or BBs. Cruisers you get no spotting or support from BBs.

Its just insane how bad its gotten and its MUCH worse in tier 10 than any other tier.

 

Honestly I doubt that this is just random. I used to be a world of tanks player for the longest time. Had to quit a few years ago because we moved and couldnt get a good internet connection. Came back about a year or two later and found that the games matchmaking was very similar to what we now see in warships. I tried to get back into it a few times but it was just too frustrating. I couldnt deal damage, couldnt really do anything. My team either roflstomped the enemy team so hard I barely even saw an enemy or I got roflstomped so hard I got one shot off before I got steamrolled by 5 enemy tanks. So for a long time I tried to get back in but I couldnt do it.

Unfortunately this has now come to warships, luckely its still mostly only in tier 10 but its just a matter of time before it starts creeping down to lower tiers and when it does the game will more or less become unplayable for solo players who actualy care about their performance.

 

Ive said this before and I will say this again. I dont care why this is happening, I dont care if its chance or if WG riggs it on purpose, it actualy doesnt matter. The problem is that people who arent unicum, who dont have a good clan with good people they can play together with, these people fall into two categories. They either quit the game or they dont care, neither of these two types of players will ever learn how to get better at the game, thus the downwards spiral begins and two additional types of players remains, extremely bad players and extremely good players. There will be (and to a large extent this has already happend) no middle ground, there wont be average players. There will be bots or extremely bad players and there will be unicums, thus the matchmaker is destroyed.

You cannot make an online PvP game that is horrifically frustrating when you arent extremely good at the game or have plenty of friends who are good that plays it, it will NEVER be succesful. Because new players will never have an insentive to learn, they will quit or soldier on without caring.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

4 minutes ago, Floofz said:

 

No such ship exists, the closest is IJN torp boats I guess.

BBs you cant play because you get no support and no spotting. DDs in general are hard to play because you get no support from cruisers or BBs. Cruisers you get no spotting or support from BBs.

Its just insane how bad its gotten and its MUCH worse in tier 10 than any other tier.

 

Honestly I doubt that this is just random. I used to be a world of tanks player for the longest time. Had to quit a few years ago because we moved and couldnt get a good internet connection. Came back about a year or two later and found that the games matchmaking was very similar to what we now see in warships. I tried to get back into it a few times but it was just too frustrating. I couldnt deal damage, couldnt really do anything. My team either roflstomped the enemy team so hard I barely even saw an enemy or I got roflstomped so hard I got one shot off before I got steamrolled by 5 enemy tanks. So for a long time I tried to get back in but I couldnt do it.

Unfortunately this has now come to warships, luckely its still mostly only in tier 10 but its just a matter of time before it starts creeping down to lower tiers and when it does the game will more or less become unplayable for solo players who actualy care about their performance.

 

Ive said this before and I will say this again. I dont care why this is happening, I dont care if its chance or if WG riggs it on purpose, it actualy doesnt matter. The problem is that people who arent unicum, who dont have a good clan with good people they can play together with, these people fall into two categories. They either quit the game or they dont care, neither of these two types of players will ever learn how to get better at the game, thus the downwards spiral begins and two additional types of players remains, extremely bad players and extremely good players. There will be (and to a large extent this has already happend) no middle ground, there wont be average players. There will be bots or extremely bad players and there will be unicums, thus the matchmaker is destroyed.

You cannot make an online PvP game that is horrifically frustrating when you arent extremely good at the game or have plenty of friends who are good that plays it, it will NEVER be succesful. Because new players will never have an insentive to learn, they will quit or soldier on without caring.

 

Right now the situation may be even worse than usual, because of the current time gated campaign which requires you pretty much to use tier 9/10 ships, tier 8 being limited to just few tasks. The whole campaign is kind of rigged because of the tier and nation requirements on top of the usual ship class and 'in one victorious battle' kind of requirements.

 

It's clear the problem is with lack of support meaning lack of team play and coordination. In some ways this is understandable because the 'arcade' game mechanics WG uses have made a complete mess of expected and functional ship combat roles. 'HE spammer', 'Capper' and 'Pinata' are not realistic combat roles even in terms of the arcade genre.

 

There's not much MM can do with that because there is no way how it can take into effect the players' ability to do game play together. And this is why also it's been suggested here on the forums you play in full divisions only so you can effectively decide the outcome of the battle thru coordinated division play. And this is also why this suggestion itself is problematic, because IMO it is partly making it difficult to get balanced teams, but that is only anecdotal, can't actually say if that is happening or not.

 

But the lack of coordination, support and completely messed up combat roles are something for which blame goes to WG.

[Itwastuesday]

Which one impacts credits earnings more, winning the game or staying afloat and farming random damage?

[Perekotypole]

What do we have now: players with average winrate blame noobs for losing games. Even though there are potatoes in both teams, you just don't recognize them in enemy team. Just like you don't see afkers in enemy team.

 

What do we have if there's some skill limit: those players with average winrate become now players with below average winrate, and start blaming WG for rigged MM.

 

Only option I see is to increase even more post battle ship service cost for upper tiers. Which is already high. I can't amass silver to buy tier 10 in time it takes me to grind through tier 9 as it is. I would have to get 250k silver per battle, in DDs I get at most 100k per battle, in cruisers and BBs maybe 200k. And I'm above average in tier 9, so players with winrate below 50%, don't know how they do it. 

[SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue]

4 hours ago, neorvo said:

How did you find that stats from reversing Gearing?

It were useful to see the replay and see what happened next. If he last for more than 5 min is something. Furthermore,  there is another ship doing the same at the left . Perhaps he was repositioning with his teammate .

Not a surprise, he survived the last, patrolling the border and hoping he can pass trough.... in other map, avoiding any scratch with care. And sure he spawned torps at 20km away ships....

[GulvkluderGuld]

Agree with OP.

First night in a while where weekday teams exceed weekend teams effortlessly at potatoing. And yes, solo games. 

How does anyone even reach tier 9 and still sails around and radars 30s after start?

[Unknown_Lifeform]

7 hours ago, Padds01 said:

actually balance ships rather than leave them broken and putting them into the santa rip off lottery to coerce obscene amounts of money out of whales with poor control mechanisms.

 

Wargaming actually tried this not so long ago. In an uncharacteristic display of bravery they put their heads above the parapet and floated the idea of rebalancing premium ships but the community (or at least that proportion of it that had paid money for said ships) reacted so negatively they binned the idea. Taking OP or toxic premiums out of circulation and watching the population slowly diminish represents the route of least resistance for them.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

27 minutes ago, Unknown_Lifeform said:

 

Wargaming actually tried this not so long ago. In an uncharacteristic display of bravery they put their heads above the parapet and floated the idea of rebalancing premium ships but the community (or at least that proportion of it that had paid money for said ships) reacted so negatively they binned the idea. Taking OP or toxic premiums out of circulation and watching the population slowly diminish represents the route of least resistance for them.

 

Well, there would have still been a way to do it, by nerfing the premium ships, offering those who had bought them a full doubloon refund on top of being able to keep the nerfed (rebalanced) ships. Nor sure how digital goods and legal stuff would have worked here, but at least that would have seemed the fairest way to sort it out. It's not like doubloon refunds would actually have costed them that much apart from the transaction cost.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

1 hour ago, Itwastuesday said:

Which one impacts credits earnings more, winning the game or staying afloat and farming random damage?

 

Would be interesting if someone less excel challenged would now the answer....

1 hour ago, Perekotypole said:

Only option I see is to increase even more post battle ship service cost for upper tiers. Which is already high. I can't amass silver to buy tier 10 in time it takes me to grind through tier 9 as it is. I would have to get 250k silver per battle, in DDs I get at most 100k per battle, in cruisers and BBs maybe 200k. And I'm above average in tier 9, so players with winrate below 50%, don't know how they do it. 

 

Sorry, that's a terrible suggestion. It would not affect the core issue it would just deplete in game currencies and encourage premium spending.

[Hugh_Ruka]

1 hour ago, Perekotypole said:

What do we have now: players with average winrate blame noobs for losing games. Even though there are potatoes in both teams, you just don't recognize them in enemy team. Just like you don't see afkers in enemy team.

 

What do we have if there's some skill limit: those players with average winrate become now players with below average winrate, and start blaming WG for rigged MM.

 

Only option I see is to increase even more post battle ship service cost for upper tiers. Which is already high. I can't amass silver to buy tier 10 in time it takes me to grind through tier 9 as it is. I would have to get 250k silver per battle, in DDs I get at most 100k per battle, in cruisers and BBs maybe 200k. And I'm above average in tier 9, so players with winrate below 50%, don't know how they do it. 

That's interesting. These days with clan bonuses, premium and some signals I don't have issues making 300k in T10/9 DD battles if I put some effort into it. Now without premium and clan, that would be rather difficult for somebody like me ...

[gabberworld]

1 hour ago, Perekotypole said:

Only option I see is to increase even more post battle ship service cost for upper tiers.

 

this is not actually a bad idea,

if you lose battle or get killed in early game you will lose allot credits

also beginners not have allot credits like most off veterans have already

 

it definitely slows down the beginner's players for run at high tier

[Karasu_Browarszky]

7 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

 

this is not actually a bad idea,

if you lose battle or get killed in early game you will lose allot credits

also beginners not have allot credits like most off veterans have already

 

it definitely slows down the beginner's players for run at high tier

 

Yes, but if that happens is not entirely their fault every time.

[howardxu_23]

1 hour ago, Unknown_Lifeform said:

 

Wargaming actually tried this not so long ago. In an uncharacteristic display of bravery they put their heads above the parapet and floated the idea of rebalancing premium ships but the community (or at least that proportion of it that had paid money for said ships) reacted so negatively they binned the idea. Taking OP or toxic premiums out of circulation and watching the population slowly diminish represents the route of least resistance for them.

I believe it’s the T5 gulio Cesar BB that the outcry was about (the Italian one where it is said that it can wipe the face of everything it sees) by uptiering to t6

 

I think WG did offer doobloon refunds, but the outcry was on that people paid actual money for them, so they wanted a full cash refunds, others said they were fine with nerfing the stats BUT it has to stay in tier 5. Sadly there is obviously idiots who believed that they paid for a OP ship so that they look good, and do not want to be changed at all.

 

they thing is, with Smolensk, I don’t think it was sold for actual money or doobloons up till it’s renoval (you can buy crates for the coal, but you need to have lot of money and 0 sense) so technically they should be able to nerf it, and offer full coal refunds

 

On the topic though

i believe WG should at least invest in some ingame tutorials 

Participattion will be optional, but if you choose to complete it, it gives a decent reward for doing so(3000 doobs or a t6/7 premium boat box, which unlocks when you have a  tech free ship of the same tier researches and played 1 battles in random/co-op). You can leave partway once you start it(real life problems, after all) but you won’t earn the rewards till you sit through the entire tutorial, and all of the sends are unskippable.

 

A idea on a mission on teaching angling: 

It will first show a video what happens to a boat when it is flat broadside to, and angled to a large calibre armed boat loaded with AP, and explaining how AP and HE works as well.

then it will throw them in a live situation, where they have to fight a CA that is firing only AP,l in another CA, say a hindy vs hindy, while giving them tips if they deal little damage with their AP, advicing them to switch to AP, or if they get paddled suggest that if they can fire the rear turrets, it means the other can pen them back

[gabberworld]

12 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

Yes, but if that happens is not entirely their fault every time.

true it punish also the veterans players, but whole point is that beginners not to rush  to tier 10.

look at my beginning view, my Montana stay one day, 2 days at garage because off credits, because i update other ships at tech tree, i not want lose allot

[Deckeru_Maiku]

11 hours ago, Aixin said:

Yeah but it's WG fault. They allow players with 100 battles to play tier ten. It's good for their business but not for the game. 

It's not as if players with 1000+ battles would do any better.

A large % of players at T10 managed to die and lose their way up, because everyone knows that T10 is "the endgame" and "only T10 battles count"

 

Which is great, as it means playing in the lower tiers usually is more fun, due to the potatoes rushing to T10 as fast as possible...

 

Though right now even on lower tiers it seems it's weekend all week long, like it has been in the holiday seasons before... Damn you, Corona-Chan.. damn you..