What is the benefit of really playing as a team player?

[HassenderZerhacker]

7 hours ago, Scipio_Africanus1829 said:

Teamwork and Teams

Typically, teamwork is defined as: Co-operation between those who are working on a task. Teamwork is generally understood as the willingness of a group of people to work together to achieve a common aim. For example we often use the phrase:” he or she is a good team player”

 

Enlighten us as to how the definition of teamwork or team equates in any way to this game, or the people that play it.

 

actually, in the business world, being a teamplayer means biting the bullet or doing the tedious work and then let someone else reap the benefits and the bonuses, which most often is a tall guy with good hair.

[howardxu_23]

Well I have a example where I did next to no damage, but won because I decided to hold my ground(or sea, in the case of wows?). Anyway, I went to A cap on some island map, and there was a Kermlin, Bismarck, gearing , amaifi there on the flank

 

I could have gone dark and ran off elsewhere to farm damage, but I decided to hold my ground instead and stop the Red boats from making a easy push trough

 

the amaifi and the gearing smoked up though, so all I have was 2 bow in BBs to shoot

the amaifi and the gearing was killed when they tried to flank around, and keleber proceeds to yolo in on the 2 BBs, fires the torps at point blank range in a Clemson style drive by(right in between the 2 BBs more or less) while the 2 BBs are more concerned about finishing off a Yamato until the it was too late. What did I get for effectively being a decoy? Peanuts the keleber? Over 2000 do and top of the scoreboard(not sure what else he did, but the yolo rush was all I see him do)

 

[bushwacker001]

11 hours ago, lossi_2018 said:

Only way to support teamplay is to ban divisions in randoms. Force people to team up in game or lose. But this ain't gonna happen.

The suggestion of a someone with no mates 

[Yedwy]

12 hours ago, DerpyMcDoom said:

My question relates to the fact that if you spot, use hydro or radar as a cruiser (sometimes DD) to just actively support the attack but, support more than fire your guns/torp/risktake, you get less Exp and fewer credits.

As a CV you can either focus the entire game on laying down wave after wave of AA aircraft for dd against enemy CV attacks on your helpless DD teammates or do rocket runs against DD's (as opposed to torp farming/bb focus) and spot them the entire game and then finish the match 3/4 of the way down the score sheet with crap earnings and minimum XP.

 

Compare that to aggressive CV torpedo focus (with no team support/cancer play) and just farming HE/Torp/smoke camping in DD (end up in at least top 3 player count at the end) and I kinda feel torn on what benefit (apart from feeling bad for not supporting my team at the expense of the DMG/EXP/CREDS outcome) at the end of the battle. 

This may sound a little ranty but I'm just interested in the thoughts of other players in one playstyle versus the next. (sorry for the bracket use but I wanted to give context lol)

Well point is you WILL win more often, now if its worth or not depends on your current situation and needs...

[MadBadDave]

7 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Nothing would be zero. You get a lot more than that. You credit income is not affected by losing and your XP get reduced by 33%. That is far from nothing.

It is a sizeable reduction, but on the other hand, your team did not win.

You know what I mean by nothing.   And is Nothing (very sizeable) compared to what you would have got if you’d won.  

[Saltface]

12 hours ago, DerpyMcDoom said:

My question relates to the fact that if you spot, use hydro or radar as a cruiser (sometimes DD) to just actively support the attack but, support more than fire your guns/torp/risktake, you get less Exp and fewer credits.

 

This is true only in the short run. Long run? Nope. You get more XP and more credits when you win. 50% more.

You will be far more productive if you win the battles instead of farming damage and losing.

Simple arithmetic and observation of the End Battle screenies prove that Victory is the biggest contributor to a player's XP and credits.

If someone on your team does not cap, hydro, radar, spot etc. your team will not win. You will enjoy less credits and XP at the end. Just think that the best XP reward on the losing side is usually less than half the wining team. What does this mean? That if you farm useless damage (even if you score high damage numbers) and you are not contributing towards the victory objectives your team will lose. Despite the fact that you farmed high damage numbers, you will score high on your (losing) team but low in absolute numbers. The definition of bad game economy.

 

The Wiki page is rather informative. 

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Base_Earnings

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ForlornSailor]

5 hours ago, Profilus said:

What would be the FAIR base xp for your game in your opinion?

 

Since this is mostly turned in to "especially DDs dont get rewarded" and "damage farming is the way to go" ill share some facts, that show, this isnt true. From my wows-numbers records, the last entries for XP-records:

 

 

There is no other class with XP-records for me in the last 12 months. And during that timespan, Ive played all 3 classes (dont tell me there are 4^^) almost equally.

Now, when I look at damage records during the last 12 months...

 

...neither was enough to break the XP record for me.

[ColonelPete]

7 hours ago, AnotherDuck said:

I got 1433 base xp for ~40k damage (mostly on CAs), 2 kills (dev strike on CA and 1.5k HP DD), some low-average spotting damage (don't remember clearly, but neither spectacular nor low) and 3 solo caps. What other people get isn't part of my argument.

See, I got 2200 Base XP for the 30k damage game I posted above...

Spoiler

Last screenshot:

 

 

7 hours ago, AnotherDuck said:

True, but the reliability for winning versus damage farming isn't nearly the same. It's far easier to play for yourself than to throw that away for a slight chance of winning. The average experience you get is better if you're selfish than if you play for objectives.

 

Or to put it in other words, the difference in win rate between damage farming and playing for the team isn't very large. Obviously it's hard to put a number to it, but very few players have a win rate at 10% above average (i.e. 60% WR). Even assuming damage farming gives you a WR of 50% (which is still very generous, I believe), you get those 50% extra base xp for victory 10% more often. In effect, you only earn 5% extra xp from playing for the team. And that's without counting the xp you get from damage farming. With farming, it's easily more than those meager 5%.

 

So, for best xp gain, farm damage unless something else is easily achievable while passing by.

Damage farming on BB gives you less. I had games were I did 100k damage on BB AND won and got around 1400 Base XP.

With a proper target selection, you will get more XP, but that can be considered teamplay.

[DFens_666]

8 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

See, I got 2200 Base XP for the 30k damage game I posted above... 

 

 

I think that is a good perspective, how raw damage aint everything. But well, let the others whine how they get no XP.. More for us

[Ouzo11]

12 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

So dealing 66k damage in a BB getting first place XP doesnt support the case, that raw damage is not the only deciding factor for XP???

I am an idiot. Had a bad oog day and 4 frustrating hs of cbs so i took it out on the forums before i could calm my self down. You are right here and i apologize.

2 things i want to point out.
-I am not condemning anyone for playing in divisions. It is true that teamwork works better in a division.
But at the same time there are things that are not rewarded enough no matter what.
Had games in Moskva with 30 planes shot down, ~3m potential and 60k dmg done to dds and radar cruisers and i still ended up in the bottom half.
Had dd games with 2m potential, crap damage, some defense  and all the flank spotting and still ended bottom half. Because damage uber alles.
In games like these, being in a division would have only led to an easier win, not to more xp or credits which is the whole point of the OP.

 

-Now, being a hurricane level player doesnt always mean much.
What do you do if by the time you get in position in your flank your only dd is dead and yours cruiser are already bailing away?
What if your bbs follow?
And what do you do if by the time you are in position to kite away, you are the closest target, perma spotted and not able to disengage?
What do you do as a hurricane level dd when you exchange your hp to spot enemy dd but no one shoots at it even though they are in position?
What do you do if you spawn in one of those retarded 2 man army spots and your team lemmings to the other cap?
There are a lot of parameters here that pretty much have you f'ed up no matter how good of a player you are.

 

[AnotherDuck]

13 hours ago, Profilus said:

What would be the FAIR base xp for your game in your opinion?

Not sure exactly, but it should be somewhere close to the top of the scoreboard, rather than in the middle.

 

8 hours ago, Saltface said:

This is true only in the short run. Long run? Nope. You get more XP and more credits when you win. 50% more.

As I mentioned previously, you don't get that 50% 100% of the time, so it isn't worth that much in the long run. What you actually gain is 50% of the difference between playing to win and playing to farm.

 

7 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

See, I got 2200 Base XP for the 30k damage game I posted above...

A lot of your damage was on DDs, so it counts for more, as you know. That's usually my strategy when playing Missouri for credits. Two decent salvos on DDs, and I'm pretty much set for a decent reward, regardless of anything else. Doesn't matter if I yolo and get just that, or continue playing and get more damage on other ships for a bit more. Doesn't matter if the team wins or not; I still get the rewards I want.

 

(Edit: To be clear, I'm talking within the context of the discussion, so still about xp, not credits, despite that being the main reason I play Missouri, as I also play her for free and captain xp since the flag update.)

 

7 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

With a proper target selection, you will get more XP, but that can be considered teamplay.

Proper target selection can and should be done if you're damage farming. When I say "damage farming", I'm not talking about big numbers; I'm talking about percentage damage, which is what earns you rewards.

[Profilus]

8 minutes ago, AnotherDuck said:

A lot of your damage was on DDs, so it counts for more, as you know. That's usually my strategy when playing Missouri for credits. Two decent salvos on DDs, and I'm pretty much set for a decent reward, regardless of anything else. Doesn't matter if I yolo and get just that, or continue playing and get more damage on other ships for a bit more. Doesn't matter if the team wins or not; I still get the rewards I want.

 

8 minutes ago, AnotherDuck said:

Proper target selection can and should be done if you're damage farming. When I say "damage farming", I'm not talking about big numbers; I'm talking about percentage damage, which is what earns you rewards.

Proper target selection is DD-Radar cruiser-Cruiser-BB.

Whatever people believe DD-s still win games and eliminating them 1st IS TEAMPLAY and gets rewarded even if you are in DD because then you can free roam at enemy.

[AnotherDuck]

44 minutes ago, Profilus said:

Proper target selection is DD-Radar cruiser-Cruiser-BB.

Whatever people believe DD-s still win games and eliminating them 1st IS TEAMPLAY and gets rewarded even if you are in DD because then you can free roam at enemy.

My point is that damage is still far better than capping for xp gain. Probably shouldn't have used Missouri as an example for that, though, but it holds true in other ships as well.

[Profilus]

7 minutes ago, AnotherDuck said:

My point is that damage is still far better than capping for xp gain. Probably shouldn't have used Missouri as an example for that, though, but it holds true in other ships as well.

Usually u have to do damage to get that cap, and cap is a bonus for xp and winning chances.

Old time ranked when 1 cap gave u at least 2nd place was also bollocks.

[AnotherDuck]

12 minutes ago, Profilus said:

Old time ranked when 1 cap gave u at least 2nd place was also bollocks.

But three caps giving you the middle of the field isn't?

[Profilus]

8 minutes ago, AnotherDuck said:

But three caps giving you the middle of the field isn't?

Depends on game, sometimes its fair to be in mid with 3 caps.

[AnotherDuck]

3 hours ago, Profilus said:

Depends on game, sometimes its fair to be in mid with 3 caps.

I don't think capping three caps on your own counts as, "You did okay. You pulled your weight, but not more than that."