Daring: Low and slow nerfs to hide a quite significant nerf

[Cyrtox]

Hey folks,

 

It seems like Wargaming has learned a new trick. Instead of using a sledgehammer (Yueyang, Kléber) they are steadily nerfing ships (in this case Daring and Jutland) until they reach the same result. I doubt that with each small patch they already have enough data to measure how effective the nerf was.

Sadly a lot of people do not realize this or even worse they think "only 0.1 more reload means nothing", not understanding that it is not a matter of total numbers but of % reduction. This is weirdly enough the same in every single game since the invention of online games. People thinking that 10% reload is better when you have a high base reload (hint: it is not).

 

Anyway... I am not saying Daring or Jutland are bad now. However they are now at Gearing DPM level (Daring) and almost at Yugumo DPM level (Jutland).

Daring has recieved something between 10 and 20% nerf. Though the ship has gained 4 skill points due to no longer needing IFHE.

 

In my opinion the older Dds should be brought up and not the only ones really functioning down.

 

[Bear__Necessities]

3 minutes ago, Cyrtox said:

Hey folks,

 

It seems like Wargaming has learned a new trick. Instead of using a sledgehammer (Yueyang, Kléber) they are steadily nerfing ships (in this case Daring and Jutland) until they reach the same result. I doubt that with each small patch they already have enough data to measure how effective the nerf was.

Sadly a lot of people do not realize this or even worse they think "only 0.1 more reload means nothing", not understanding that it is not a matter of total numbers but of % reduction. This is weirdly enough the same in every single game since the invention of online games. People thinking that 10% reload is better when you have a high base reload (hint: it is not).

 

Anyway... I am not saying Daring or Jutland are bad now. However they are now at Gearing DPM level (Daring) and almost at Yugumo DPM level (Jutland).

Daring has recieved something between 10 and 20% nerf. Though the ship has gained 4 skill points due to no longer needing IFHE.

 

In my opinion the older Dds should be brought up and not the only ones really functioning down.

 

Daring just got a buff.... 

[Black_Sheep1]

It was more a compensation cause you can now penetrate 19mm without ifhe. The AP of the Daring is already strong with the better bouncing angles. So they had to compensate the stronger HE in some way. Not to mention the 4 spare points you have now.

[ColonelPete]

She looks pretty strong to me:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200418/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

[Cyrtox]

I didnt say Daring is bad or weak now. Not sure of any of you actually read what I wrote.

I already said Daring got 4 skill points. However the nerf costs at least 3 points (BFT) to compensate.

Anyhow, I was talking about the method of the nerf, not the state of Daring. Also said I would buff the older Dds instead.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 4 Minuten, Cyrtox sagte:

I didnt say Daring is bad or weak now. Not sure of any of you actually read what I wrote.

I already said Daring got 4 skill points. However the nerf costs at least 3 points (BFT) to compensate.

Anyhow, I was talking about the method of the nerf, not the state of Daring. Also said I would buff the older Dds instead.

It's being nerfed carefully step by step after community feedback was gathered. It will be continued to be nerfed step by step until its fine. 

 

And no it's not on you to decide when that will be. 

The same happend to Kreml btw. Kreml got nerfed hard and now sits on 1.8 sigma. Many only see the AA mount nerfs however. It's very selective isn't it?

 

You said you would buff older DD's? Yeah change the variables of all DDs around the one ship that has issues sure. Because changing the balance of 10 ships sure is easier than changing the one with the issue. 

[Exocet6951]

13 minutes ago, Yoshanai said:

Kreml got nerfed hard and now sits on 1.8 sigma.

 

 

Meanwhile, "Poor accuracy at long range" Kremlin at 18km:

 

[Cyrtox]

It is not all about inter-DD balance. Nerfing one ist easier, however bringing everything down to a low level doesnt make sense.

[ollonborre]

25 minutes ago, Cyrtox said:

I didnt say Daring is bad or weak now. Not sure of any of you actually read what I wrote.

I already said Daring got 4 skill points. However the nerf costs at least 3 points (BFT) to compensate.

 Anyhow, I was talking about the method of the nerf, not the state of Daring. Also said I would buff the older Dds instead.

But you already slotted BFT anyways for that improved reload even before the nerf because more dakka. So far the tweaks are negligble, and if we stay with the coming nerfs that just hit PT where the base reload goes to 2.8 and torp reload 125, I still think we are fine.

 

That being said Z-52 love when?

[Cyrtox]

Yes you did. It was just to show that you lost at least as much as you won. And you only won utilty and lost damage.

[firerider202]

Its no secret trick, its a new system of balancing because the community doesent like big nerfs. Crysantos mentioned that several Times in the Last streams, so not very secret. They just dont want to overnerf, i Think that is quite good but there are always complains.  

[lossi_2018]

How about not introducing OP stuff so we don't have nerfs?

 

Even better, how about nerfin wat needs nerfin and not wut doesn't ? :)

[Jethro_Grey]

6 hours ago, ollonborre said:

But you already slotted BFT anyways for that improved reload even before the nerf because more dakka. So far the tweaks are negligble, and if we stay with the coming nerfs that just hit PT where the base reload goes to 2.8 and torp reload 125, I still think we are fine.

 

That being said Z-52 love when?

It’s german, so never. 

[SSGdoncollier]

11 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

She looks pretty strong to me:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200418/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

BTW I wanna ask about Z52 average  damage. Only 33k? wtf is this? Am I the only one seeing the problem here? 

[lossi_2018]

Geez having read  the title again of dis, I get some weird erotic vibe idk

 

Low and slow nerfs to hide a quite significant nerf Read this in a mellow deep voice

[Cyrtox]

Vor 6 Stunden, firerider202 sagte:

Its no secret trick, its a new system of balancing because the community doesent like big nerfs. Crysantos mentioned that several Times in the Last streams, so not very secret. They just dont want to overnerf, i Think that is quite good but there are always complains.  

Good that they mentioned it. I am not viewing all streams.

Anyways, not overnerfing is good but nerfing every single patch seems weird as you cannot really see the impact that quickly. So ist looks more like "the community does not like big nerfs so lets split it up into 3-4 changes in a row instead". Also these changes are accumulating and are now similar to e.g. nerfing the Kremlin from 33 to 37 seconds reload. Imagine that would happen.

[firerider202]

Vor 2 Stunden, Cyrtox sagte:

similar to e.g. nerfing the Kremlin from 33 to 37 seconds reload. Imagine that would happen.

They want to prevent these kind of changes, but when spreadsheet says 35s are not enough, they will still nerf it further. Because spreadsheet is always right!

[Lieut_Gruber]

6 hours ago, SSGdoncollier said:

BTW I wanna ask about Z52 average  damage. Only 33k? wtf is this? Am I the only one seeing the problem here? 

German fanboy syndrome, most German ships suffer from it.

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

6 hours ago, SSGdoncollier said:

BTW I wanna ask about Z52 average  damage. Only 33k? wtf is this? Am I the only one seeing the problem here? 

Did you expect that the playerbase would know how to play a different styled DD? 
The AP of the Z are pretty sweet.

[ForlornSailor]

6 hours ago, SSGdoncollier said:

BTW I wanna ask about Z52 average  damage. Only 33k? wtf is this? Am I the only one seeing the problem here? 

Its the combo of low damage/range torps and low dpm on the guns. However, Z-(52) is a very good anti DD-tool and in this form also a very good spotter. So it might have a higher portion damage on DDs, directly and indirectly through hydro spotting. However, only WG has access to such deep stats. Thats why looking at the general available stats doesnt always paint the whole picture. Id like to give proof to my hypothesis, which I cant, exactly for the reason of lacking detailed stats.

 

However, talking about buffing Z-(52): if you raise the gun dpm, you get an even crazier cap-contester / anti-DD-tool. Which will hurt especially the classic DDs more. Buffing the torps however might be up for the table. Id like to see a 12 km range on Z-52, if I get to chose.

[Cyrtox]

Z52 is little outdated. I still like it... however I think it could need a higher DPM than Z46. Also low dpm HE should have some advantage, e.g. same pen formula as german BBs or Cruisers.

[Altsak]

1 hour ago, ForlornSailor said:

So it might have a higher portion damage on DDs, directly and indirectly through hydro spotting

 

Z-52 sports the lowest exp of them all indicating that it doesn't get excessive portion of damage from DDs.

[ForlornSailor]

1 minute ago, Altsak said:

Z-52 sports the lowest exp of them all indicating that it doesn't get excessive portion of damage from DDs.

 

Shimakaze is lower. While having 1/3 more damage

[Rionnen_marksman]

18 hours ago, Cyrtox said:

I didnt say Daring is bad or weak now. Not sure of any of you actually read what I wrote.

I already said Daring got 4 skill points. However the nerf costs at least 3 points (BFT) to compensate.

Anyhow, I was talking about the method of the nerf, not the state of Daring. Also said I would buff the older Dds instead.

Tbh I thought almost all daring players used BFT anyway. It’s a gunboat, maximise your guns.

[Cyrtox]

Vor 52 Minuten, Rionnen_marksman sagte:

Tbh I thought almost all daring players used BFT anyway. It’s a gunboat, maximise your guns.

True as it was already stated. Also if this was done to compensate for the IFHE "buff": It still reduces the max DPM and affects AP DPM as well while the "buff" didnt.