Playing DDs in the current Meta

[DFens_666]

5 minutes ago, Odo_Toothless said:

And my point was: without CV in a game, good player in DD can carry to victory much easier, with iCV even if he "adapted", it's often impossible, becouse CV has much greater carry potential then DD and your personal effort could be meaningless.

 

First part, i agree and never wanted to argue against that. However, DDs certainly have more carry potential then BBs/Cruisers. Ive had a Gearing game recently without CV and basicly no radar (salem - doesnt count as a radar ship to me). I could pretty much do what i want, after i disposed of the 2 enemy DDs.

Latter part, i disagree somewhat. We still run a DD in a division (even if we have a CV) because we still think its necessary more often than not. Simply because your other DDs might suicide like absolute potatoes. And when the enemies realize that, they can take mapcontrol.

CVs have more carry potential than DDs, that i agree with.

[MadBadDave]

16 minutes ago, Odo_Toothless said:

A lot. Becouse as You said, Your cooperating team of SU have almost quaranteed 80%. You don't need to rush something, your flank will not fall in a 2 minutes and game will not end in 5 becouse lost all caps. So your risk is minimalized. And when suddenly some of You is loosing 1/3 of HP ex. to planes,  your teoretical carry potential is still 2 and 2/3. If solo player take a hit of 1/3, he only has 2/3 chances to do his normal score. Yes, I know how easy is playing with good players, when they are refusing to die no matter what becouse their high skill. It's not a andom game any more. It's most often We champions vs rest.

 

In team You don't need to worry so much, that Your DD has lost some HP from planes,  while solo player must rethink his strategy twice and play much more passive, what for sure will greatly diminish his chances to win on his own. For now We know, that CV rework changes nothing, when playing in a very good team. I would be surprised if any "rework can  change this, especially then average skill of players is falling hard.  As i said I can't argue to such. statement very similiar to this:  Mikasa is very good ship,, becouse I always have 100% WR when playing her with overkill division vs new players.

 

And my point was: without CV in a game, good player in DD can carry to victory much easier, with iCV even if he "adapted", it's often impossible, becouse CV has much greater carry potential then DD and your personal effort could be meaningless. Argument, that 3 players division can still overome CV influence, adds not much  to this thread. If You can overcome alone influence of even the best CV and still win, proves that You are an exceptional player,. Good for You then. Next time, when i got bombed to oblivion or spotted in a wrong place, I will knew, that I just play poorly and not adapted to a new meta.

 

ps. I will not further reply,. becouse English is not my native language and it's not so easy to me to argue in a different language, then my own. Anyway - Thank Your effort.

Turn AA off when unspotted by planes and on when spotted, use defensive AA vs Rocket planes, don’t blindly rush into the cap, do make sure you have some sort of support, only half believe the torpedo tracker; ships do alter speed and direction randomly unless it’s a noob, having another DD as Div mate can boost confidence and aggression helping cap, but can lead to over confidence.

 

It takes time to learn to play a DD properly, as it’s by far the hardest class to play.

[loppantorkel]

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

What does Solo have much to do with it?

Solo has everything to do with it though. I'm not going to take the other side of whatever you're arguing, but questioning solo vs div play when it comes to game balance is a bit too odd imo. Clearing up exactly what you're arguing would probably help solving it.

 

I asked early in the thread what it was about - current or future situation, and it's about both. I don't know the future so I don't see much to argue about. The current dd vs cv situation has been brought up before and there are obvious issues there. Dds are very much playable in the current meta, both with and without cvs, but it can be heavily affected by cvs, which is bad design, again imo. The nerfs to Daring is another showcase how little WG understands about the game balance (perhaps it's all part of a long term plan, but I doubt it). Play Daring solo in a cv game and there's a decent chance you'll perform decently. It's a comparatively strong dd that has decent survivability in cv games. Is it an overall strong ship in cv games? No, it's a dd. It's better than most other dds because it can smoke up a short while as protection and it got a heal which makes it survive longer. The capability of dds are generally lower in cv games due to them being spotted more easily and often damaged more easily. It would've been much more appropriate to buff dds such as the Gearing, YY and Z-52 before touching Daring again. Buffing these and would've meant a slightly reduced effectiveness of Daring resulting in a lowered WR in the end.

[Odo_Toothless]

55 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

Turn AA off when unspotted by planes and on when spotted, use defensive AA vs Rocket planes, don’t blindly rush into the cap, do make sure you have some sort of support,

I already know and use most the tricks, but:

1. ex. Gearing defensive AA with sector reinforced is killin 1 plane of Midway from entire squadron So i have it permanantly turned off, to survive longer. Why ? Becouse if You do not turn it off exactly in time, You will still be spotted and shooted. Even 1 second of delay could cost You a lot of HP.

2. Some sort of support. XaXa. There is only a few % of matches, when You have real support like: Smolensk going capping with You. The standard thing is: I met DD on cap. he and his team is shooting on me and my random "support" is hiding behind islands or just happy farming closest BB. You will never know, what they will do. So if You want to win more then loose, You must try capping anyway, using all known tricks and run when in doubt. Sometimes it's ending badly and You can do nothing about it (ex. DD + unspotted Mino went straight into cap) but this is a normal DD risk. Without such risk You will stuck at 50% WR at X tier matches.

[Nibenay78]

On 4/23/2020 at 4:19 PM, kfa said:

Potatoes gonna potate, good players just deal with it and play differently if CV is around. 

But what if it's not a good game anymore? Even a losing game can be very enjoyable. But getting shat on by the CV for 20 minutes might not be.

[DFens_666]

19 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Solo has everything to do with it though. I'm not going to take the other side of whatever you're arguing, but questioning solo vs div play when it comes to game balance is a bit too odd imo. Clearing up exactly what you're arguing would probably help solving it.

 

Well i think, the main difference between Solo and div play is the WR. Often enough, you get less damage and kills when playing in a division, simply because the others grab their own share of it. So i think, someone producing good numbers across the board even while playing in a division is already proof, that he is a good player.

And that getting carried is imo just a myth. You wont find people carrying your [edited]all the time, if you are a much worse player than they are.

[Migantium_Mashum]

Given the games I have had recently I prefer solo play, if you put faith in a team and they fail then likely as not so do you..

 

As a solo player I am free to make choices that I think benefit the team best and if some of the team click to what i am doing all the better.

There will be games, when having looked at the lineup, I go full attack mode, games where I can be defensive and others where I have to reach out into the enemy zones avoiding going for caps...

I have had low damage games that had me behind the enemy team for almost the entire game keeping them spotted... Occasional games where I have actively hunted and taken out the enemy CV..

 

In each DD game I have the lineup tells me the style of play i will choose. Know you enemy ships, know their strengths and weaknesses... you play better and are more effective.

 

There are other tricks but they stay with me....

 

 

[kfa]

1 hour ago, Nibenay78 said:

But what if it's not a good game anymore? Even a losing game can be very enjoyable. But getting shat on by the CV for 20 minutes might not be.

if you are being shat on by CV for 20 minutes, you sir have just won the game for your team.

[Capra76]

19 hours ago, Bear__Necessities said:

I started grinding the Pan EU DD's today. The ones with no smoke and anaemic torps, so hardly an OP line, especially low tier. However I used my brain. I didn't do predictable things and my results today speak for themselves.

 

How many of those games were solo rather than in a x3 voice linked division?

 

Edit:

 

Ah, already covered, sry.

[Bear__Necessities]

14 hours ago, Capra76 said:

 

How many of those games were solo rather than in a x3 voice linked division?

How many of those game did I still perform the role of DD perfectly in, rather than yolo into the middle like an absolute donkey. Huh? Ohhhh so now ALL opinions on the entirety of the game are NULL AND VOID if you've ever played a game in division? Edited* I've played nearly or over 14,000 games. Half of them solo. Half. That's more than most of the players on this server have played in total. How about anyone with a WR of below 60% should say nothing. That's my new rule. Why? Coz making up useless rules and moving the goal posts is now the new forum way. 

[ForlornSailor]

9 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

How many of those games were solo rather than in a x3 voice linked division?

 

fun fact: about 98% of my random division games are WITHOUT voice. because we cant be arsed. we dont need it actually. And that includes quite a few games with @Bear__Necessities aswell. But even if he´d confirms this, someone would come around the corner, calling us stat-padding liars again. cuz stat shaming good players in this forum is totally accepted.

[MadBadDave]

24 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

fun fact: about 98% of my random division games are WITHOUT voice. because we cant be arsed. we dont need it actually. And that includes quite a few games with @Bear__Necessities aswell. But even if he´d confirms this, someone would come around the corner, calling us stat-padding liars again. cuz stat shaming good players in this forum is totally accepted.

Voice??, Ever played fortnite and heard most of the kids cussing, swearing and being abusive having para glided into Towers and dying upon touching ground, can you imagine most players having speech and headsets playing WOWS 🤭😱.  In a division it can help but then chat and the hot keys are just as good.

[loppantorkel]

4 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Well i think, the main difference between Solo and div play is the WR. Often enough, you get less damage and kills when playing in a division, simply because the others grab their own share of it. So i think, someone producing good numbers across the board even while playing in a division is already proof, that he is a good player.

And that getting carried is imo just a myth. You wont find people carrying your [edited]all the time, if you are a much worse player than they are.

All true. Not intending to argue you on this.

 

If we're speaking of general game/class/ship balance though, it's not super productive to bring up WRs of 3 man divs, single games, or even game sessions with multiple games.

 

I'm not overly invested in this topic since I'm not entirely sure if there's a specific point to argue about, but say, hypothetically, it's about dds getting the short end of the stick due to cvs, stronger crusiers or bbs. I'd say that some dds still are fine in this meta. Not all though. If anyone wants to argue that all dds are in a good spot in this meta, it's easily proven by showing a >60% WR over 50 solo games in a specific, selected dd, starting from this point. Any good player should be able top 60% solo WR if the dd isn't UP or broken.

[Odo_Toothless]

11 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

by showing a >60% WR over 50 solo games in a specific, selected dd, starting from this point.

As i posted in this thread: https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/134468-playing-dds-in-the-current-meta/?do=findComment&comment=3455344 i,ve played in two days 47 games in Smaland. But this ship looks very OP when comparing to silver one like Gearing  However in my opinion 50 games can show false results,  becouse i don't belive that 72% was only my contribution.

 

In this games, there was no problems with CV, but she has tonn of  HP with those healing parties and working AA.

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

2 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

All true. Not intending to argue you on this.

 

If we're speaking of general game/class/ship balance though, it's not super productive to bring up WRs of 3 man divs, single games, or even game sessions with multiple games.

 

I'm not overly invested in this topic since I'm not entirely sure if there's a specific point to argue about, but say, hypothetically, it's about dds getting the short end of the stick due to cvs, stronger crusiers or bbs. I'd say that some dds still are fine in this meta. Not all though. If anyone wants to argue that all dds are in a good spot in this meta, it's easily proven by showing a >60% WR over 50 solo games in a specific, selected dd, starting from this point. Any good player should be able top 60% solo WR if the dd isn't UP or broken.

I think you can get a 60% wr in any ship when you are a good player. A good player will recognize the strengths of a ship and use those. Staying alive and contributing to a 1,000 points is key. 
 

[SquibSurefire]

17 hours ago, kfa said:

if you are being shat on by CV for 20 minutes, you sir have just won the game for your team.

but was it fun being shat on?

[MadBadDave]

10 hours ago, Odo_Toothless said:

do=findComment&comment=3455344 i,ve played in two days 47 games in Smaland. But this ship looks very OP when comparing to silver one like Gearing  However in my opinion 50 games can show false results,  becouse i don't belive that 72% was only my contribution.

Gearing has been powercrept to hell and back, it and other US DDs released over a year ago need a major buff, new additions like the Benham and Somers do not.

 

While at it US BBs need buffs as well, I.e Alabama and Iowa

[DFens_666]

39 minutes ago, SquibSurefire said:

but was it fun being shat on?

 

Also its literally useless in randoms to occupy the enemy CV. Your team might aswell do nothing to capitalize on that one. I saw the difference immediately, when CVs entered ClanBrawls. There it does make a difference when the CV is attacking a certain target, and you are free to execute a plan.

IN randoms? Nah, CVs are brokenly OP there, because the average player cant understand anything.

[diegobrando_2019]

The only proper way to play DD is to be afk for a minute at the start and then charge into cap.

[Runegrem]

18 hours ago, MadBadDave said:

Voice??, Ever played fortnite and heard most of the kids cussing, swearing and being abusive having para glided into Towers and dying upon touching ground, can you imagine most players having speech and headsets playing WOWS 🤭😱.  In a division it can help but then chat and the hot keys are just as good.

Ever played WoWs on the PS4? It has voice as standard. There are a lot of players just breathing loudly into the mike. Also a lot of players with dogs, kids, cars, loud music, TV, vaccuum cleaners in the background. Not many players actually talk about the game. Super fun.

[Profilus]

4 hours ago, SquibSurefire said:

but was it fun being shat on?

if i survive in a DD against constant attacks from CV 20 min, i will wet my pants from laughter so YEAH ITS FUN!

[Lootboxer]

22 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

And that getting carried is imo just a myth. You wont find people carrying your [edited]all the time, if you are a much worse player than they are.

Common mate, it's obvious. It's obvious also that if in a div with 2 other unicums if you will up (sometimes you will) they still will carry you much better then average potatoes or they can take advantage of your death if trading for example.

Negative side is that you will have too many steam-rolls.

[DFens_666]

46 minutes ago, DariusJacek said:

Common mate, it's obvious. It's obvious also that if in a div with 2 other unicums if you will up (sometimes you will) they still will carry you much better then average potatoes or they can take advantage of your death if trading for example.

Negative side is that you will have too many steam-rolls.

 

Sure, i meant like, if you are a potato You wont get 2 unicums to carry you all the time, because quite frankly, you would ruin it for them too often. Ive played with average players in division aswell, but its just occasionally. Most often its 3x >60% players.

[Miscommunication_dept]

I think I’ve only played in division twice.

Edit:

Just checked, only once played in division but it doesn’t seem to work for me. PR of 84!!!

 

[ForlornSailor]

22 hours ago, MadBadDave said:

Ever played fortnite and heard most of the kids cussing, swearing and being abusive having para glided into Towers and dying upon touching ground

 

4 hours ago, Runegrem said:

Ever played WoWs on the PS4? It has voice as standard. There are a lot of players just breathing loudly into the mike. Also a lot of players with dogs, kids, cars, loud music, TV, vaccuum cleaners in the background. Not many players actually talk about the game. Super fun.

 

Thats sounds awesome. I think Ill pass tho

 

8 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

I think I’ve only played in division twice.

Edit:

Just checked, only once played in division but it doesn’t seem to work for me. PR of 84!!!

 

Wanna try again? Have to warn you tho: once you get addicted to it, there is no way back ;)