Playing DDs in the current Meta

[Taliesn]

7 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

If pre-rework CV would be able to kill me on his own that he'd be one of the top 5% of CV players ... or RNG favored him on a bomb drop ... it was quite easy to avoid a cross drop if you payed any attention ...

 

And please learn to read before you post. I said the CV needs to cover for me to spot the enemy DD if I myself cannot as he is in a much better position to do so ... I never wrote anything about fighter cover for ME ... fighters are all but useless as a defensive measure ...

 

The 5% CV works both ways mate. An average CV player post-rework doesn't have neither the skill nor the patience to kill a DD.

 

Also, you seem to not remember what you wrote, and I quote:

 

"No, it was not an issue, because your CV could cover you with fighters and there was very effective AA (even on some DDs like the Grozovoi and Gearing f.e.). DDs are the last class that heavily depends on teamplay. Does your team shoot the other DD that you are detecting at the risk of your ship ? Does the team shoot radar cruisers with priority ? Is your CV good enough to know when he needs to spot the enemy DD so you/your team can finish him and not go damage farming ? "

 

You weren't talking about fighter spotting but fighter protection AND effective AA.

[ForlornSailor]

1 hour ago, Bear__Necessities said:

Man some of you are getting petty at each other. I haven’t played a lot of DD recently due to grinding 2 cruiser lines and keeping my CV skills sharp for CW but last times I took out DD’s it wasn’t an issue the current state of the game. Like I said in another post frankly the quality of DD players hinders a game just as much of not more than the opponent ship class and quality. Even none CV games DD’s potato full speed into obvious hydro and Radar traps blaming everyone as they die in the 1st few mins coz Mr Gearing thinks he can take on a cap filled with threats. CV’s just spot and hit those morons quicker is all. There is a reputation for Shima players for a reason. Long established before rework...

 

OOH boy careful what you are saying. You are going to be stat-shamed from Potatos with much worse stats then yourself, for claiming DDs are fine

[Bear__Necessities]

39 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

OOH boy careful what you are saying. You are going to be stat-shamed from Potatos with much worse stats then yourself, for claiming DDs are fine

They can try. Here’s the last time I played DD’s. CV in every game.

 

 

Not that I think CV’s are balanced as such. More that so many DD players are such potato’s they make it impossible to do well for themselves.

[ZeMalm]

16 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

 

Spotting wins games, one thing is certain, defeats Cleary don't pay any bills

 

 

Yes spotting wins games. But spotting dont pay any bills for the ones who has to do the spotting.

 

 

[Hugh_Ruka]

4 hours ago, Taliesn said:

 

The 5% CV works both ways mate. An average CV player post-rework doesn't have neither the skill nor the patience to kill a DD.

 

Also, you seem to not remember what you wrote, and I quote:

 

"No, it was not an issue, because your CV could cover you with fighters and there was very effective AA (even on some DDs like the Grozovoi and Gearing f.e.). DDs are the last class that heavily depends on teamplay. Does your team shoot the other DD that you are detecting at the risk of your ship ? Does the team shoot radar cruisers with priority ? Is your CV good enough to know when he needs to spot the enemy DD so you/your team can finish him and not go damage farming ? "

 

You weren't talking about fighter spotting but fighter protection AND effective AA.

ah sorry, I was under the impression you were talking about the post-rework CVs while my quote is about old CVs ... ok

[Bear__Necessities]

Before I start. I will reiterate again that I don't think CV's are balanced and therefore this isn't a "everything is fine" post. However. As I have said before, playing potato when you're in a DD makes everything that much harder. And you can give yourself some positive quality of life in game when you engage the grey matter. 

 

I started grinding the Pan EU DD's today. The ones with no smoke and anaemic torps, so hardly an OP line, especially low tier. However I used my brain. I didn't do predictable things and my results today speak for themselves.

 

 

I ended todays run with 10 wins in 11 games, 11 caps, 14 kills and plenty of actual fun and challenging moments where my smart play was rewarded. Including against lots of CV's. Some ranging from potato to competent. 

Here are all my screenies with a CV in game. As you can see while some are not even registering damage, there are otherways on getting wins in DD's. Capping is one. Just use your brain not just bash W into A etc. 

 

Spoiler

 

And this one I'm most proud of today. Their CV made me work so hard. And having to take on the Mass and Skane at the same time and killing both was one great moment, including chasing down that pesky CV.

 

 

 

YOU can do well in DD's in the current meta. You CAN also find it a struggle for justifiable reasons. What you can't do is blame it ENTIRELY on class interactions if you yourself are playing poorly. How many players actually self reflect? Guessing a tiny amount compared to the ones who blame every failing on everything but themselves. Overall. I suppose if you don't enjoy it, I can't blame you for it. Fun is subjective. But I will not sit quite while players blame every failing on everything else without self reflection upon their own actions. 

 

 

[Odo_Toothless]

1 hour ago, Bear__Necessities said:

I started grinding the Pan EU DD's today. The ones with no smoke and anaemic torps, so hardly an OP line, especially low tier.(...) YOU can do well in DD's in the current meta

They have plenty of HP thanks to heal, V-VI very high speed, VII-X very good AA, so it's nothing unusual they do well in CV meta. Take ex. Gearing and try to carry solo with good CV on the sky. No speed, long smokes and AA is even not worth to turn on. The only way i made it more playable was legendary module + speed consumable and a lot of prays to be ignored by CV. And still, no matter how much I tried to won, I was completely outclassed by CV ability of game winning potential. Results ? After 2/3 of 50 matches with CV, i had very bad WR like some sort of total noob.

 

Then i took Smaland. Superior AA, plenty of HP (36K with all heals), no smoke (but for what reason i need that ? Probably to be caught by radar in them. Solid islands are much better in that role.)  - game after game won. And the only problem was to not be spotted  bt CV in a bad position. So some DD has no too much worry, when others do not suit this meta at all. Btw. i was only one time sunked by CV in Smaland, but in the end of a lost game. What i saw in Gearing ? 4 planes of Midway shot down by entire match, when using all AA consumables with sector reinforcement. Even VIII tier CV was tearing me appart. In Smaland: 20+ of X was nothing strange, so CV just not tried to make any more drops.

 

 

btw. 1. I watched videos how good is Gearing right after rework, when planes just melted by her AA. But no more and ship is dead as gunboat capper. Anyway she has not a chance with Smaland too.

2. Every of Your DD match was in team of 2 or even 3, so winning  games on such low tiers is nothing unusual. You can take ex. Mikasa and tell, look what a ship - 100% WR.

[Bear__Necessities]

38 minutes ago, Odo_Toothless said:

They have plenty of HP thanks to heal, V-VI very high speed, VII-X very good AA, so it's nothing unusual they do well in CV meta. Take ex. Gearing and try to carry solo with good CV on the sky. No speed, long smokes and AA is even not worth to turn on. The only way i made it more playable was legendary module + speed consumable and a lot of prays to be ignored by CV. And still, no matter how much I tried to won, I was completely outclassed by CV ability of game winning potential. Results ? After 2/3 of 50 matches with CV, i had very bad WR like some sort of total noob.

 

Then i took Smaland. Superior AA, plenty of HP (36K with all heals), no smoke (but for what reason i need that ? Probably to be caught by radar in them. Solid islands are much better in that role.)  - game after game won. And the only problem was to not be spotted  bt CV in a bad position. So some DD has no too much worry, when others do not suit this meta at all. Btw. i was only one time sunked by CV in Smaland, but in the end of a lost game. What i saw in Gearing ? 4 planes of Midway shot down by entire match, when using all AA consumables with sector reinforcement. Even VIII tier CV was tearing me appart. In Smaland: 20+ of X was nothing strange, so CV just not tried to make any more drops.

 

 

btw. 1. I watched videos how good is Gearing right after rework, when planes just melted by her AA. But no more and ship is dead as gunboat capper. Anyway she has not a chance with Smaland too.

2. every of Your DD match was in team of 3, so please, how to loose a game in such low tier ?

Changing the ship and changing the CV captain skill level does not make my points any less valid...

[Odo_Toothless]

3 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

Changing the ship and changing the CV captain skill level does not make my points any less valid...

As i edited in my post, right now: Every of Your DD match was in team of 2 or even 3, so winning  games on such low tiers is nothing unusual. You can take ex. Mikasa and tell, look what a ship - 100% WR . It proves nothing,

 

Take Gearing solo, and show me WR after at least 50 games with CV on the sky, then I will belive You. ok ?

[Bear__Necessities]

Just now, Odo_Toothless said:

As i edited in my post, right now: Every of Your DD match was in team of 2 or even 3, so winning  games on such low tiers is nothing unusual. You can take ex. Mikasa and tell, look what a ship - 100% WR . It proves nothing,

Ohhhh so it doesn't count if your in division.... wanna move those goal posts some more. 

[Odo_Toothless]

3 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

Ohhhh so it doesn't count if your in division.... wanna move those goal posts some more. 

I am sorry. With divison of 3 good players, You can print whatever You want on low tiers And You exactly know about it.

[Bear__Necessities]

Just now, Odo_Toothless said:

I am sorry. With divison of 3, You can print whatever You want on low tiers And You exactly know about it.

So why do I solo stat consistently above average in say.... My T9 DD's which meet both T8 and T10 CV's....

[Odo_Toothless]

8 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

So why do I solo stat consistently above average in say.... My T9 DD's which meet both T8 and T10 CV's....

This is not a point. In your example of mulltiple won games in a DD suited to this meta, all was in team. So please show better examples, how CV is not a problem, even to DD without AA or heal. Preferably on high tiers, especially when facing X CV. And play alone, becouse in pack of 3 SU, you can even be AFK and still have ex. 60% WR. It proves nothing, except how a good team is OP in random meta.

[Bear__Necessities]

8 minutes ago, Odo_Toothless said:

This is not a point. In your example of mulltiple won games in a DD suited to this meta, all was in team. So please show better examples, how CV is not a problem, even to DD without AA or heal. Preferably on high tiers, especially when facing X CV. And play alone, becouse in pack of 3 SU, you can even be AFK and still have ex. 60% WR. It proves nothing, except how a good team is OP in random meta.

Frankly, everything you've written is a joke. You set new standards and goalposts every new comment. Why. Coz heaven forbid the players in this game should put some effort in to learn and improve. 

[Odo_Toothless]

30 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

Frankly, everything you've written is a joke. You set new standards and goalposts every new comment. Why. Coz heaven forbid the players in this game should put some effort in to learn and improve. 

Hey - I don't told that You are doing bad, becouse your scores are showing opposite. But when I want to tell - hey look ex. the crappiest ship in a game - Mikasa is a powerhoue  (learn, adapt, think etc )  and will show my 100% WR from games with my super friends, it would be just a bad joke.  I am not right ?

 

If You want to tell something true, show good example like me: Gearing not suited, Smaland - very good  - I can still carry in this ship alone. And You can always say: You are just poor Gearing player, CV is not a problem, becouse: (here real arguments, but without pack of 3 SU using simple tactics: smoke Moscow + Des, torp from behind and watch how world is crying) and i will belive You. Even now i had 200k games in her from long torping, but overall i can no longer carry, becouse CV is killing me, when i go to do something usefull (capping), so my WR in her is very bad. So there are two options - or I am a potato, or CV +power creep killed this ship.

[Bear__Necessities]

 

 

Here ya go. Solo. Gearing. 1 V 1 DD duel, won. Focused by CV AND radar cruiser. won.

[Odo_Toothless]

24 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

Here ya go. Solo. Gearing. 1 V 1 DD duel, won. Focused by CV AND radar cruiser. won.

And this one gome prove what ? That sometimes You can win anyway. Ir's called RNG and in that game, it was rather typical rolfstomp. 3 real planes killed is not much too (rest - fighters).I had a game in Mikasa with 7 kills, but my mind about her is the same - the only ship, in which i have not a chance even with a new players, so long they stay of 3,8 km from me.

 

If You want to be somewhat serious, play at least 10 games in a row with CV, preferably much more. Then we can talk about overall ballance, without generalization like: I just bought Smalland (one of the best of AA DD in game), so You are all wrong and CV means nothing etc. This is just fake opinions. Even the best players are telling that it is not true. See: latest Flambass video about DD vs CV interaction.

 

I am out.Good night.

[Bear__Necessities]

4 minutes ago, Odo_Toothless said:

And this one gome prove what ? That sometimes You can win anyway. Ir's called RNG and in that game, it was rather typical rolfstomp. I had a game in Mikasa with 7 kills, but my mind about her is the same - the only ship, in which i have not a chance even with a new players, so long they stay of 3,8 km from me.

 

If You want to be somewhat serious, play at least 10 games in a row with CV, preferably much more. Then we can talk about overall ballance, without generalization like: I just bought Smalland (one of the best of AA DD in game), so You are all wrong and CV means nothing etc. This is just fake opinions. Even the best players are telling that it is not true. See: latest Flambass video about DD vs CV interaction.

 

I am out.Good night.

See. You just move the goals posts. I’ve played 100’s maybe 1000’s of games with CV’s and my DD WR is 60% and rising. You’ve got nothing left to support your argument other than changing the rules. Sad really.

[Odo_Toothless]

11 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

See. You just move the goals posts. I’ve played 100’s maybe 1000’s of games with CV’s and my DD WR is 60% and rising.

The same arguments ... All those games was in team. As i said, You can be an AFK and still have such WR, thanks to good team mates. I am not tellling again, that You are playing not well, but your arguments are just not solid. From other posts avout CV, You are saying that every DD is just easy kill for You, from others here: not a problem for DD, becouse Iam still winnning. Just forgetting to add: I and my team.

 

This is pointless discussion. One thing is for sure, we can create any fantasy reality we want and beilive in it, even when saying opposite opinions. But for others it still be a dreaming.

[Bear__Necessities]

2 minutes ago, Odo_Toothless said:

The same arguments ... All those games was in team. As i said, You can be an AFK and still have such WR, thanks to good team mates. I am not tellling again, that You are playing not well, but your arguments are just not solid. From other posts avout CV, You are saying that every DD is just easy kill for You, from others here: not a problem for DD, becouse Iam still winnning. Just forgetting to add: I and my team.

 

This is pointless discussion. One thing is for sure, we can create any fantasy reality we want and beilive in it. Even when saying opposite opinions.

You’ve not been able to disprove a single thing I posted. It’s like you have some strange agenda to protect bad players.

 

Personally I’m just going to keep getting better and look at the whiny entitled potato player base with indifference. Those that don’t learn stay at the bottoms. Simple as that.

[DFens_666]

10 minutes ago, Odo_Toothless said:

The same arguments ... All those games was in team. As i said, You can be an AFK and still have such WR, thanks to good team mates. I am not tellling again, that You are playing not well, but your arguments are just not solid. From other posts avout CV, You are saying that every DD is just easy kill for You, from others here: not a problem for DD, becouse Iam still winnning. Just forgetting to add: I and my team.

 

The difference is, he is a good player in both instances. He can kill DDs at will when playing CV. Noob CVs cant do that. He can do well in a DD against most CVs. Noob DDs cant even survive against a BB because they might open water gunboat it. Thats the point here.

[Odo_Toothless]

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 He can do well in a DD against most CVs.(...)Thats the point here.

I don't see such point valid, becouse this particular player has played only a few games in DD solo. For sure he is not bad, but his arguments are not solid. Surive and do well. How well ? DMG wise or WR wise, becouse i don't see such data so far. Mayby he is right, we just dont know. But even it this can work, only really good players can adapt to such hard meta, others stand not a chance or just pray to really bad CV as opponent.

 

From my observations I can still do the same DMG in DD as before rework, but on some ships, which are very susceptable to CV damage and spot, I carry no more, especially when I saw that ships like Gearing can be one dropped by 2/3 of their HP.  And I am not taking about carrying with OP team or low tier ships. Yes i played CV too and once fought in implacable vs Friesland. Still got it nailed hard, time after time by using slingshots, so he turned off his AA and run away.

 

So if a new CV player, in VIII CV can do that to one of the best AA DD overall, then how DD have to adapt ? So far from my Gearing observations, if I don't want to be smashed, it's better to forget about AA. But it limits oir possible choices hard. Where I am wrong ? Which statement is true: I can kill every DD as CV or when playing DD, CV means not much to me (attack from potato CV or staying with Your team is a remedy ?). Both cannot be true. Especially when using slingshots Ii killled some low health DD in the middle of enemy X tier order. And they really tried to adapt.

 

So my proposition is limiting a DMG done to DD from 1/3 to 1/5, to make them live longer.

[semiGM]

Until Hightier dds are in a very comfortable Position, (Clemson, Kamikaze, T61, Z39, Kidd), cruisers have few  means (hydro) to counter them (Radar,), are overmatched by bbs everywhere, bad dpm and a huge concealment disadvantage, so dds can move freely. CVs Force you to be a bit more careful. In Hightier the picture changes, many cruisers have radar and dpm, bbs have pgood accuracy. Surviving is more challengingly, especially in a game with CVs. But still no excuse for all the Yolo dds to sink in the first 5 min, and they still do this without cvs or Radar. 

[DFens_666]

8 hours ago, Odo_Toothless said:

I don't see such point valid, becouse this particular player has played only a few games in DD solo. For sure he is not bad, but his arguments are not solid. Surive and do well. How well ? DMG wise or WR wise, becouse i don't see such data so far. Mayby he is right, we just dont know. But even it this can work, only really good players can adapt to such hard meta, others stand not a chance or just pray to really bad CV as opponent. 

 

What does Solo have much to do with it? Its not like, your Cruiser/BB can babysit you for AA when you do DD stuff in the front. Atleast thats not how we play in divisions.

Doing well includes for me: Not dying to the CV (atleast not 2 mins into the game), get Unicum damage numbers, high place in the XP table and ofc high WR - regardless of solo or division btw, ive been running on close to 80% WR in divisions since 1,5 years, that only works if everyone does its part. Our DD does well almost all the time.

 

 

Thats the DDs ive played since rework (except Cossack, Jervis and Minekaze)

Yes, its division only. But we are still talking abot a ~80% WR here - 2 others wont carry so much to achieve that WR. Especially since there wasnt a CV in it most of the time (sometimes yes, especially the T8 games). And ofc there will be some DDs with a bit lower WR, because sometimes you just get those crap teams which cant win, and noone is failproof either, we all do mistakes

I dont even have 500 games in DDs (yeah, not a DD guy) so if a new DD player can do that, how come others cant? Its the same with your CV arguement btw, only showing, that it doesnt matter if you are new. It matters what you know about the game. Do you think, most CV players use slingshot? Hell no, even if they have been playing for months they might not know, or couldnt execute it anyway.

 

 

so a smokeless DD vs 2 higher Tier CVs... i capped, and got 10 defended ribbons AND literally killed them both with my guns. 43k - just someone else manage to grab the kill. And if i would have known they are that incompetent, i actually would have survived. I didnt except to survive that long when i attacked them, but they just kept missing me while i was just straightlining to keep all my guns on them. So if id have dodged, i could have survived actually. Which didnt matter also at that point.

 

Bad CVs suck - they mostly wont hit you, and look for easier targets afterwards. The worst part is the spotting. And many CV players are just that = bad

Bad DDs suck too. They will die regardless of CVs being present. Ive had a Shimakaze run into the enemy side right away, only to open water gunboat a GK and die in like 30 secs.

[Odo_Toothless]

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

What does Solo have much to do with it? Its not like, your Cruiser/BB can babysit you for AA when you do DD stuff in the front. Atleast thats not how we play in divisions.

A lot. Becouse as You said, Your cooperating team of SU have almost quaranteed 80%. You don't need to rush something, your flank will not fall in a 2 minutes and game will not end in 5 becouse lost all caps. So your risk is minimalized. And when suddenly some of You is loosing 1/3 of HP ex. to planes,  your teoretical carry potential is still 2 and 2/3. If solo player take a hit of 1/3, he only has 2/3 chances to do his normal score. Yes, I know how easy is playing with good players, when they are refusing to die no matter what becouse their high skill. It's not a andom game any more. It's most often We champions vs rest.

 

In team You don't need to worry so much, that Your DD has lost some HP from planes,  while solo player must rethink his strategy twice and play much more passive, what for sure will greatly diminish his chances to win on his own. For now We know, that CV rework changes nothing, when playing in a very good team. I would be surprised if any "rework can  change this, especially then average skill of players is falling hard.  As i said I can't argue to such. statement very similiar to this:  Mikasa is very good ship,, becouse I always have 100% WR when playing her with overkill division vs new players.

 

And my point was: without CV in a game, good player in DD can carry to victory much easier, with iCV even if he "adapted", it's often impossible, becouse CV has much greater carry potential then DD and your personal effort could be meaningless. Argument, that 3 players division can still overome CV influence, adds not much  to this thread. If You can overcome alone influence of even the best CV and still win, proves that You are an exceptional player,. Good for You then. Next time, when i got bombed to oblivion or spotted in a wrong place, I will knew, that I just play poorly and not adapted to a new meta.

 

ps. I will not further reply,. becouse English is not my native language and it's not so easy to me to argue in a different language, then my own. Anyway - Thank Your effort.