Playing DDs in the current Meta

[HMS_Kilinowski]

19 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Then you realize that MM does not care about ship capabilities just the class. Playing the wrong DD at the wrong time of day can result in a Khaba+Kleber against double Shima matchup. If you drew luck on the radar or CV side, you are fine. If not, nothing you do will win you the game if the enemy DDs don't screw up royally ... CVs have this much easier as the fighter capabilities are no longer the deciding factor for them that they cannot influence.

Shima outspots a Kleber by more than 3km. The Shimas can take the caps while Kleber and Khabe will struggle to do that. Naturally that means they must be good at something else to compensate that weakness. But as I said a good DD-player uses multiple ways to have an impact on the game. I never had issues with Shima against Kleber or Khaba. You just don't fight them on their terms, easy as that.

[MadBadDave]

41 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

Right now in this meta it is not possible to use DDs to cap. In the last 2-3 weeks I have played like 60-70% of the capping was done by any other class because the DD was running for its life.

Sorry beg to differ, I seem to be capping more than before, which I can’t figure out, Oland is not fast and doesn’t have smoke., it’s weird.  I don’t rush in and contest the cap, unless supported but end up stealing a cap or capping an uncontested cap, this maybe because the EU DD play style has changed the way I play,  as mentioned only Radar really threatens this. 
 

Considering what DDs have to do (a lot more than any other class), and with Radar, Cvs and soon to be Subs DD players have to contend with a lot, nerfing Radar (as earlier mentioned), would at least give us a bit of respite.  So realistically WG won’t do it, just wait they’ll give planes radars, that only detect DDs from 20km next 😏.

 

Whats refreshing is that a lot of DDs are now surviving beyond 5 minutes, sure noobs rush in and perform the lemming dive but you have to admit normal players are lasting a lot longer and actually influencing play, HE spamming cruisers  seems to be less, probably because a island humping Smoly is finding a 12km Torp doing at least 76 knots up his stern 😀 ?.

 

Reducing Radar will stop further island humping and he spamming

[Butterdoll]

1

the first thing I did when I got my Baltimore was get rid of radar.

Baltimore don't really need it and you can go for RPF or hydro.

whatever setup Baltimore will do good, and to support, you can support in different ways.

I'm not saying I'm doing this for DDs, i'm doing this because I want to experiment with other builds and I'm happy with how things are going.

 

 

2

DDs with smoke are the best spotters in the game, very important to the team, so, the more the merrier and I don't understand why they must race to their demise, just spot and wait for an opportunity, don't be too eager to go to port or to cap.

 

 

3

Cvs could be the best class in game but they aren't.

Is that hard to spot and keep the flank spotted until the ships are close enough to spot each other? and then go for damage?

or

Switch sides and spot where the dd isn't?

Things like this makes cvs second to dds in value to the team.

 

And back to point 1.

I decided to go old style with Baltimore and while the numbers are not the same as before it pays off most of the times.

DDs that come to me searching for help are left alone or with minor damage most of the times.

And i'm just in the beginning

 

the thing is, if the life is harder for dds, then change the gameplay a bit, adapt, seek protection of the rest of the fleet, as long dds are spotting they are doing their job, don't go right ahead to the cap like before, the fleet can't follow dds into the cap without soften up the other side first but it needs dds to be able to soften them up first.

 

 

[Hugh_Ruka]

8 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

the thing is, if the life is harder for dds, then change the gameplay a bit, adapt, seek protection of the rest of the fleet, as long dds are spotting they are doing their job, don't go right ahead to the cap like before, the fleet can't follow dds into the cap without soften up the other side first but it needs dds to be able to soften them up first.

 

 

Unfortunately spotting does not pay the bills in this game. Spotting damage for DDs is rewarded less than for cruisers ...

[Odo_Toothless]

58 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

the thing is, if the life is harder for dds, then change the gameplay a bit (...)

You know I am doing not worse DMG/kills scores then before rework. Problem is, DD potential to carry matches decreased a lot. So much that I feel like third class ship in DD. Ex. yesterday i played a lot Gearing, while 2/3 of matches was with CV. I never had such bad WR. Why ? Becouse my effort is often meaningless in the world of planes, which dominate battlefield. I can't move here or there to do my job, becouse if I move away too far from my ships and CV spot me, I will be dead sooner or later. Now CV is a king and DD is just a poor bastard. So why play ex. Gearing, which is kicked like child from every direction, when i can take Smolensk/Worcester, harass everything around, while looking for another personal top score ?

 

 

ps. got a ban for a chat for not being nice, becouse frustration. Sorry for that

 

Neo: What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?
Morpheus: No, Neo. I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready, you won't have to. (So adapt and don't play :-P)

[lovelacebeer]

I decided to test this myself tonight so took out my Daring one of the DDs I am most comfortable playing in especially if there are CVs about and after 3 games I had had enough.

 

It's very easy to get first blood and do a lot of spotting in DDs but either your battleships and crusiers fixate on shooting the most long range enemy BBs with their HE or they all find the biggest island to hide behind. So even when you spot the enemy DD and engage it no one else shoots it (thankfully was the same when I was spotted most enemy cruisers wouldn't demean to shoot a lowly DD not when there was a BB at max range). The other thing is the Daring has Hydro so guess what I spot a lot of torps for my teammates which in theory would allow them to try and dodge but nope that's boring. 

 

To be fair there was some pretty bad potato play by plenty of DDs tonight but the behaviour of teams tonight was poor to say the least so I hopped back into playing crusiers it's easier. 

[Taliesn]

9 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

No, it was not an issue, because your CV could cover you with fighters and there was very effective AA (even on some DDs like the Grozovoi and Gearing f.e.). DDs are the last class that heavily depends on teamplay. Does your team shoot the other DD that you are detecting at the risk of your ship ? Does the team shoot radar cruisers with priority ? Is your CV good enough to know when he needs to spot the enemy DD so you/your team can finish him and not go damage farming ?

 

The other classes are much more self-sufficient, the CV is completely self-sufficient.

 

But to add to the discussion, I do not complicate my gameplay with so many considerations at the start, as my team support determines a lot of my gameplay. I'll happily die in the first 5 minutes if the team does not work with me and let them lose the game (or work harder for the win). I often sacrifice my own damage just to spot on a flank so the rest of the team can farm the enemy and we do win.

 

In case I want some selfish fun, I take out the Khabarovsk and just farm damage on anything that comes within gun range. I do occasionally take out the TRB Shira and Kagero, but those get out less and less.

 

Basically the ship selection or the priority of ships I use changed some, but my gameplay is mostly the same.

 

Sorry but you are saying other classes do not shoot the ships you are spotting as a DD and at the same time claiming your selfless CV would cover you with his fighters? Yeah, no.

 

A pre-rework CV would crap on your DD in the time it took him to cross torp you and send you to the bottom.

[firerider202]

Vor 9 Stunden, OldschoolGaming_YouTube sagte:

 And I think we can count on subs in random in the near future,

6 month at the earliest. Still a long time.

[ForlornSailor]

11 hours ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

Not having AA menas that if you runned out of smokes your crap out of luck. You are dead! No counters no nothing. When a regular Joe in a CV can defeat a Super unicum DD player in the late game there is something wrong.

 

Thats just a tad bit overdramatic.

11 hours ago, Humorpalanta said:

Right now in this meta it is not possible to use DDs to cap. In the last 2-3 weeks I have played like 60-70% of the capping was done by any other class because the DD was running for its life.

 

Seriously?

 

And thats a Kiev...or how about against a Super unicumCV that went for me?

 

 

Didnt stop me from killing their DDs and surviving. I dont have a problem discussing this subject but when I read things like "not possible" or "you are dead" then thats just an absolute exagguration.

[Rick_Hunter]

11 hours ago, Odo_Toothless said:

You know I am doing not worse DMG/kills scores then before rework. Problem is, DD potential to carry matches decreased a lot. So much that I feel like third class ship in DD. Ex. yesterday i played a lot Gearing, while 2/3 of matches was with CV. I never had such bad WR. Why ? Becouse my effort is often meaningless in the world of planes, which dominate battlefield. I can't move here or there to do my job, becouse if I move away too far from my ships and CV spot me, I will be dead sooner or later. Now CV is a king and DD is just a poor bastard. So why play ex. Gearing, which is kicked like child from every direction, when i can take Smolensk/Worcester, harass everything around, while looking for another personal top score ?

 

 

ps. got a ban for a chat for not being nice, becouse frustration. Sorry for that

 

Neo: What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?
Morpheus: No, Neo. I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready, you won't have to. (So adapt and don't play :-P)

That sums it up.

 

Looking at the mm recently, why would you play Gearing at all. The amount of radar, hydro, planes (your def-aa is pretty much useless) and all the new DDs with heal is limiting your impact on the game a fair bit. 

Just adapt and play Daring, the Swedish DDs, Grozovoi or Kleber. Or division up, lay a smokecreen for your friendly radar cruiser and in the meantime spam your 16km torps while spotting the enemy, that might still work. But trying to carry your teams solo in Gearing in 2020 sounds ambitious

 

 

[GraySlayer]

11 hours ago, MadBadDave said:

Sorry beg to differ, I seem to be capping more than before, which I can’t figure out, Oland is not fast and doesn’t have smoke., it’s weird.  I don’t rush in and contest the cap, unless supported but end up stealing a cap or capping an uncontested cap, this maybe because the EU DD play style has changed the way I play,  as mentioned only Radar really threatens this. 
 

Considering what DDs have to do (a lot more than any other class), and with Radar, Cvs and soon to be Subs DD players have to contend with a lot, nerfing Radar (as earlier mentioned), would at least give us a bit of respite.  So realistically WG won’t do it, just wait they’ll give planes radars, that only detect DDs from 20km next 😏.

 

Whats refreshing is that a lot of DDs are now surviving beyond 5 minutes, sure noobs rush in and perform the lemming dive but you have to admit normal players are lasting a lot longer and actually influencing play, HE spamming cruisers  seems to be less, probably because a island humping Smoly is finding a 12km Torp doing at least 76 knots up his stern 😀 ?.

 

Reducing Radar will stop further island humping and he spamming

 

Yeah I agree here.

 

I don't ever run straight to cap I always run out wide for the most part and let the initial battle unfold so I can get a bead on what's coming my way. I totally ignore all ships telling me to cap or how to play my ship. (they never thank me after when we win mind you)

 

Ultimately I do cap but it's always on my terms and when I feel it's the right time to do it.

[MadBadDave]

20 minutes ago, Rick_Hunter said:

That sums it up.

 

Looking at the mm recently, why would you play Gearing at all. The amount of radar, hydro, planes (your def-aa is pretty much useless) and all the new DDs with heal is limiting your impact on the game a fair bit. 

Just adapt and play Daring, the Swedish DDs, Grozovoi or Kleber. Or division up, lay a smokecreen for your friendly radar cruiser and in the meantime spam your 16km torps while spotting the enemy, that might still work. But trying to carry your teams solo in Gearing in 2020 sounds ambitious

 

 

I never play gearing these days, having far too much fun in EU:Swedish botes, All US DDs have been powercrept and need a major buff, as I recently discovered when comparing AA effective ness of a new tech tree T8 (oland), against a KIdd, supposedly one of the best AA DDs in the game, not anymore !.  Add in faster longer legged torps that also reload quicker it practically makes the Kidd redundant, go up the tiers further and that power creep becomes even more obvious.

 

There is no reason to play a us destroyer any more. 
 

 

Sadly it’s not only US DD’s that have been neglected: except Benham, but US BBs have also been powercrept, in the real worried US BBs were undoubtedly the masters, and yet in game who are you more afraid of ; A Kremlin or a Montana, and how easy is an Iowa to delete ?.

[Humorpalanta]

2 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

I never play gearing these days, having far too much fun in EU:Swedish botes, All US DDs have been powercrept and need a major buff, as I recently discovered when comparing AA effective ness of a new tech tree T8 (oland), against a KIdd, supposedly one of the best AA DDs in the game, not anymore !.  Add in faster longer legged torps that also reload quicker it practically makes the Kidd redundant, go up the tiers further and that power creep becomes even more obvious.

 

There is no reason to play a us destroyer any more. 

There is no reason to play a torpedo destroyer anymore.

 

The EU DDs are nice vs CVs but they are worthless in anything else if the enemy is not dumb. The torps reload fast but cause little to no harm. No smoke so in case they are detected they are basically gone as HP is low.

 

If you want to play DD play Soviet DDs or UK ones for fast smoke. Or RN cruisers...

[Aixin]

Vor 2 Minuten, MadBadDave sagte:

I never play gearing these days, having far too much fun in EU:Swedish botes, All US DDs have been powercrept and need a major buff, as I recently discovered when comparing AA effective ness of a new tech tree T8 (oland), against a KIdd, supposedly one of the best AA DDs in the game, not anymore !.  Add in faster longer legged torps that also reload quicker it practically makes the Kidd redundant, go up the tiers further and that power creep becomes even more obvious.

 

There is no reason to play a us destroyer any more. 

Personally I as a tier 8 cv fear the halland more than mino Worcester and Co. Actually if you div up with a mate with two halland or even österjutlands (öland not so much they are still quite easy to kill) you can make the enemy CV life hell. That's basically what dd players wanted for almost a year. Idk why they made the aa of those dd's stronger than Worcester or mino or if this is just my subjektive feeling El2aZeR will prove me wrong Problably but normally I am not that bad when it comes to cvs. You might wanna try it out (not against me pls) and post the results here. :) 

[Hanse77SWE]

I feel that the game is going down the drain.

 

DD is the most hard pressed class in the game right now and with subs comming that will get even harder. The "Rock-Paper-Scissor" is gone and for the first time we have a class that are totaly immune against one or more of the others. We have a playerbase that won't learn even the most basic game-mechanics and a company that doesn't listen to feedback.

 

I was hoping to be around when the game celebrated five years but that seems long gone. 41 Days of premium left. Used my last doubloons today. Gonna Watch from the side lines after that.

[Miscommunication_dept]

I don’t play DDs that much anymore. A CV so easily just ruins the game.

Taking half or even all your health while killing just a few planes that will regenerate just seems so ridiculous.

 

Wargaming needs to get rid of rocket planes really.

[genosse]

DDs are mostly fine imho, but the Tier X meta is just horrible. 

 

I was so looking forward to the Smaland and it is a decent ship I have to get used to, but Tier X ruins everything for me.

 

Always a CV, always huge differences in team composition and player skill, radar is everywhere, one mistake and 2 Smolensks, 1 Venezia and a Wooster will delete you in 2 seconds, BBs seem to have have only one forward but 5 reverse gears, nobody moves from the spawn ...

 

God I hate Tier X meta. It's the dullest, most stale and predictable way to play this game that's possible.

 

You can make it work, but what's the point? Maybe if you are a masochist.

 

DDs are okay, it's literally everything else that sucks on X.

 

 

[MadBadDave]

2 hours ago, Humorpalanta said:

There is no reason to play a torpedo destroyer anymore.

 

The EU DDs are nice vs CVs but they are worthless in anything else if the enemy is not dumb. The torps reload fast but cause little to no harm. No smoke so in case they are detected they are basically gone as HP is low.

 

If you want to play DD play Soviet DDs or UK ones for fast smoke. Or RN cruisers...

Disagree on the torp issue, but agree to some respects about RN DDs, loved the Lightning, have Cossack, hated Jutland and have yet to sample Daring, which is regarded as a very good all round DD, it’s become the DD that the gearing used to be.  I stopped playing lightning because of its infective AA, short range torps and smoke that lasts seconds, now if they buffed the torps to 10k and added a little extra AA firework I’d soon get another lightning, the same goes for Cossack it’s severely handicapped it does have 10km torps (and thus the question wtf doesn’t lightning), but the angle is dreadful.  I met an Orkan in battle weeks ago, and after a fast, frantic knife fight I killed him and his last shot killed me, I do prefer Oland over Cossack and that’s before you consider Cossacks got a 19 pointer and Olan only a 14 pointer.

 

The Gearing and Khaba seem to have gone down the pecking order (powercrept), as mentioned with US BBs being the best in WW2 being powercrept, US destroyers were also the best and they too are nowhere near as good as they were in real life.

 

EG how many famous battles and kills did the Fletcher class achieve compared to Osterlands between 1939 and 1945 😏.   It’s probably just me but I think certain ships should be rightly special in game, and I mean real, famous, heroic ships, like the Laffy and Sheffield etc as well as those already in game; Bismarck, Iowa, Warspite, Duke of Yuck, etc,etc. Instead we talk more about the prowess or OP nature of fantasy and Russian ships.

 

Vlad vs Bismarck in real life 😂🤣😅, Vlad vs Bis in game 😞.  

[MrWastee]

from my pov solution is quite simple: play asashio, solves everything

 

Spoiler

my last 3 weeks on waifu, half of the runs solo:

Asashio	VIII	12	91.67% Super Unicum	2 278 Unicum	70 042	1.83	0.08
Asashio B	VIII	12	66.67% Super Unicum	1 958 Great	76 990	1.33	0

 

 

 

[Profilus]

23 hours ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

That would mean, no spotting, no capping, no helping at all.

These days you have nobody to help because most people play max range( even cruisers wirh radar). So basically you can help if you have any kind of team with will to win.

[GulvkluderGuld]

Generally speaking I enjoy how other non-CV classes have evolved counterplay to DDs. It requires skill and attention to play DDs in this meta.

Sadly there is many CV games with just 1 DD. You can basically AFK the first 5-10 minutes if CV has two braincells to rub together. Very rustrating and boring. In CBs too their impact in CV games are questionable at best compared to cruisers an BBs and with one or two exceptions they're fallen too far beinhd the powercreep train. Only a few are actually viable in the current meta (the small maneuverable ones: Daring, Shima, Somers).

5 hours ago, Humorpalanta said:

There is no reason to play a torpedo destroyer anymore.

 

The EU DDs are nice vs CVs but they are worthless in anything else if the enemy is not dumb. The torps reload fast but cause little to no harm. No smoke so in case they are detected they are basically gone as HP is low.

 

If you want to play DD play Soviet DDs or UK ones for fast smoke. Or RN cruisers...

Disagree, torpedo DDs can still be very strong unless we are talking Clan Battles with coordinated teams using CV.

In randoms, I average 1,5+ kills in Shima with > 60% wr no problem. Benham stats are even better. 

Those are very menuverable ships and much better suited to the meta (=dodging the fire from 11 ships and CV) than something like a Grozovoi.

 

I do agree Daring is king in CV meta.

Soviet DDs, and even grozovoi do not bring the same maneuverability to the table. They eat too many pens because of large size. Same reason Z52 remains trash. Gearing too despite being maneuverable, it sits so high in the water and still eats tons of damage. YY with many smokes are actually viable, or would be if WG hadn't hit it with the sledgehammer. Khaba is a worse Kleber/Marceau and unless grinding the LM there is zero reason to play it. Halland /Smaaland I do not yet have, but either is outspotted and will lose any gunfight to a Daring.

[Humorpalanta]

9 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Generally speaking I enjoy how other non-CV classes have evolved counterplay to DDs. It requires skill and attention to play DDs in this meta.

Sadly there is many CV games with just 1 DD. You can basically AFK the first 5-10 minutes if CV has two braincells to rub together. Very rustrating and boring. In CBs too their impact in CV games are questionable at best compared to cruisers an BBs and with one or two exceptions they're fallen too far beinhd the powercreep train. Only a few are actually viable in the current meta (the small maneuverable ones: Daring, Shima, Somers).

Disagree, torpedo DDs can still be very strong unless we are talking Clan Battles with coordinated teams using CV.

In randoms, I average 1,5+ kills in Shima with > 60% wr no problem. Benham stats are even better. 

Those are very menuverable ships and much better suited to the meta (=dodging the fire from 11 ships and CV) than something like a Grozovoi.

 

I do agree Daring is king in CV meta.

Soviet DDs, and even grozovoi do not bring the same maneuverability to the table. They eat too many pens because of large size. Same reason Z52 remains trash. Gearing too despite being maneuverable, it sits so high in the water and still eats tons of damage. YY with many smokes are actually viable, or would be if WG hadn't hit it with the sledgehammer. Khaba is a worse Kleber/Marceau and unless grinding the LM there is zero reason to play it. Halland /Smaaland I do not yet have, but either is outspotted and will lose any gunfight to a Daring.

I was thinking... That poor sod who is going on the german DD line nowadays.... Jeeez. Jap DDs are also smacked hard.

 

BTW it is not about being able to score well or do well in the DDs. I can do it too. The thing is that how much it requires. I play 3 DD games and I am as tired as if I was working. The problem lies here: You come to this "game" to have fun. THIS is NOT FUN.

[ForlornSailor]

29 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

That poor sod who is going on the german DD line nowadays

 

Yea. soooo unplayable. Literally me in 2020:

 

 

But I forgot: you dont like facts, only exaggerations.

[LazyVegetable]

11 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Yea. soooo unplayable. Literally me in 2020:

 

 

But I forgot: you dont like facts, only exaggerations.

No one is arguing they are unplayable, what we are arguing is that they require a lot more skill and knowledge than everyone else. Playing DD feels like a job, while everything else is relaxed. This is the problem.

[DFens_666]

4 minutes ago, LazyVegetable said:

No one is arguing they are unplayable, what we are arguing is that they require a lot more skill and knowledge than everyone else. Playing DD feels like a job, while everything else is relaxed. This is the problem.

 

I wouldnt call playing Cruiser much relaxing either.

Easiest is BB followed by CV (if you dont give a crap about losing planes).