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OldschoolGaming_YouTube

Playing DDs in the current Meta

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This isnt really a whine thread but more a discussion of the current Meta for Destroyers. The reason is I saw this latest upload from Flambass where he tries to educate a streamfollower on how to behave and play as a DD captain in the current Meta, First of I really respect Flambass knowledge, I think he is one of the better DD players on the EU server. And I realised that I feel pretty much the same as him regarding the Meta right now and it will just get worse by every upcoming patch. As Flambass says in the video, you have to base your play in a DD based on the situation in every game.

  • Which Map?
  • How many caps?
  • How many DDs?
  • Which DDs?
  • How many DDs with hydro?
  • How many DDs with Radar?
  • How many cruisers with hydro?
  • How many cruisers with radar?
  • How many can stealthradar?
  • How many BBs with hydro?
  • How many BBs with radar?
  • How many CVs?
  • Do I have any AA WHATSOEVER?!?!

First after answering all these questions you can start forming a plan on how to play that round. And Spoileralert, about 80 % will fail and die within first 5 min.

 

Most viable DDs to play based on this is pretty much

  • Daring (because heal and many smokes)
  • 20 Km Asashio (because 20 km and smokes)
  • 20 Km Shimakaze (because 20 km and smokes) fun right?

That would mean, no spotting, no capping, no helping at all.

 

And this is the current meta Today!! Soon WG will launch a new line of Russian cruisers with stealth radar and Submarines ........ Guess whos job it is to rush straight into harms way and detect and fight these submarines? Destroyers? While being Permaspotted the entire time and shot at by atleast 10 enemy ships!! WG realise that DDs has the least amount of HP and usually no heals right? And playerbase woinder why DDs are all dead within the first 5 min?

 

Best way to survive past the 5 min mark? Play VERY selfish! Just do you, disregard team, teammates, caps, objectives, spotting enemy DDs, spotting enemy torps, in the future, try and spot and kill enemy Submarines (yeah, good luck with those....). is this any fun? AT ALL?! Hell no, but tryinig to do these things will get you killed very very fast and you have ZERO counters to all hydros, radars and CVs. I really wonder why WG thinks any DD captain in his right mind on top of all other BS suicide things he has to do each round also now will have to hunt submarines while permaspotted? We didnt have enough BS to deal with? maybe add some sea mines as well that only targets DDs? Maybe some trained seals that chews on the hulls of DDs only. 

 

I really do wish all BB players luck with those submarines in the future, you gonna need it! 2 Pings = Citadels .... right? Have fun! The DDs will be hiding in the back.

 

 

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Potatoes gonna potate, good players just deal with it and play differently if CV is around. 

 

You will always hear excuses from bad players or from those who refuse to learn let it be cv, radar, hydro, mm, desync, weather, covid19 or the neighbour chick who changes clothes with open windows... 

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Its the curse of light & fast vehicles in any game. They are the spotters/scouts but also the easiest to kill, so they always require the most skill, and tend to have the highest skill ceiling. Whilst also exposing themselves to the most danger. Still, no DD will be expected to rush into the enemy team to kill a sub spamming torps. Im sure idiots will ask them to, but then people already demand silly things of DDs. Just ignore them.

 

BBs will be no worse off, honestly. They already get screwed by a DD torp spread up close. Subs are not that much different. The main issue is the shotgun sub playstyle meaning a sub can just sail up to you whilst submerged and drop 4-6 unavoidable torps. Hopefully WG nerf the hell out of this playstyle.

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1 hour ago, kfa said:

Potatoes gonna potate, good players just deal with it and play differently if CV is around. 

 

You will always hear excuses from bad players or from those who refuse to learn let it be cv, radar, hydro, mm, desync, weather, covid19 or the neighbour chick who changes clothes with open windows... 

Good and bad players has been around since forever but I dont feel like its excuses when WG just keeps adding more and more crap upon one class in the game that already is the hardest to master. It need to stop sometime? Or give us all the crap you can but then give us 100 000 HP and massive BB heals? Why should the scared cat sitting in his BB on A line all game have that?

1 hour ago, AlexeiCrimson said:

Its the curse of light & fast vehicles in any game. They are the spotters/scouts but also the easiest to kill, so they always require the most skill, and tend to have the highest skill ceiling. Whilst also exposing themselves to the most danger. Still, no DD will be expected to rush into the enemy team to kill a sub spamming torps. Im sure idiots will ask them to, but then people already demand silly things of DDs. Just ignore them.

 

BBs will be no worse off, honestly. They already get screwed by a DD torp spread up close. Subs are not that much different. The main issue is the shotgun sub playstyle meaning a sub can just sail up to you whilst submerged and drop 4-6 unavoidable torps. Hopefully WG nerf the hell out of this playstyle.

Im just saying, be prepered to have no spotting at all. Soon DD will sit by the Yamato player in base or hes dead. Is that what we want? Maybe it is.

 

Since BB players will eat citadels with 2 pings I think they will react to DDs not going after subs and its not that common for a DD to make it to close quarters with a enemy BB

 

And dont get your hopes up on WG balancing sub shotgun torps, they havent been able to balance CVs in 5 years.... 

 

Is this the direction we want the Meta. Because im a DD main and I know how I will play my DD, and I dont think many will like it. But then again I can play like most do and die after 5 min. 

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1 hour ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

This isnt really a whine thread but more a discussion of the current Meta for Destroyers. The reason is I saw this latest upload from Flambass where he tries to educate a streamfollower on how to behave and play as a DD captain in the current Meta, First of I really respect Flambass knowledge, I think he is one of the better DD players on the EU server. And I realised that I feel pretty much the same as him regarding the Meta right now and it will just get worse by every upcoming patch. As Flambass says in the video, you have to base your play in a DD based on the situation in every game.

  • Which Map?
  • How many caps?
  • How many DDs?
  • Which DDs?
  • How many DDs with hydro?
  • How many DDs with Radar?
  • How many cruisers with hydro?
  • How many cruisers with radar?
  • How many can stealthradar?
  • How many BBs with hydro?
  • How many BBs with radar?
  • How many CVs?
  • Do I have any AA WHATSOEVER?!?!

First after answering all these questions you can start forming a plan on how to play that round. And Spoileralert, about 80 % will fail and die within first 5 min.

 

Most viable DDs to play based on this is pretty much

  • Daring (because heal and many smokes)
  • 20 Km Asashio (because 20 km and smokes)
  • 20 Km Shimakaze (because 20 km and smokes) fun right?

That would mean, no spotting, no capping, no helping at all.

 

And this is the current meta Today!! Soon WG will launch a new line of Russian cruisers with stealth radar and Submarines ........ Guess whos job it is to rush straight into harms way and detect and fight these submarines? Destroyers? While being Permaspotted the entire time and shot at by atleast 10 enemy ships!! WG realise that DDs has the least amount of HP and usually no heals right? And playerbase woinder why DDs are all dead within the first 5 min?

 

Best way to survive past the 5 min mark? Play VERY selfish! Just do you, disregard team, teammates, caps, objectives, spotting enemy DDs, spotting enemy torps, in the future, try and spot and kill enemy Submarines (yeah, good luck with those....). is this any fun? AT ALL?! Hell no, but tryinig to do these things will get you killed very very fast and you have ZERO counters to all hydros, radars and CVs. I really wonder why WG thinks any DD captain in his right mind on top of all other BS suicide things he has to do each round also now will have to hunt submarines while permaspotted? We didnt have enough BS to deal with? maybe add some sea mines as well that only targets DDs? Maybe some trained seals that chews on the hulls of DDs only. 

 

I really do wish all BB players luck with those submarines in the future, you gonna need it! 2 Pings = Citadels .... right? Have fun! The DDs will be hiding in the back.

 

 

 

Games pretty much still get favourably decided by the team whose DDs spot and cap, rarely by the ones with DDs that stay among the BBs lauching 20km torps. If your DDs are launching 20km torps far away from the caps, you have just given the enemy team a huge advantage.

 

And pre-rework CVs could permaspot not only you but the other two DDs in your team at the same time. We didn't hear about it because lack of CVs, but it was certainly more a matter of not being many CVs that masked this rather than that CVs couldn't turn a DDs life both miserable and very, very short.

 

Still the highest ceiling & lowest floor class in the game, that hasn't changed at all.

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30 minutes ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

Since BB players will eat citadels with 2 pings I think they will react to DDs not going after subs and its not that common for a DD to make it to close quarters with a enemy BB

Any complaining BBs are probably dead weight, already sailing the H line and best left ignored.

 

Anyway, thanks WG for a new class to farm reports in apart from playing CV:Smile_trollface:

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If WG decides to put subs into Random games, I hope they have the decency to make subs and cvs mutually exclusive. That shouldn't be that hard.

 

I'm not sure about the purpose of the thread. Is it about the current Random meta or fears of the upcoming, potentially sub-infested meta?

If it's the former, I think we all know about the cv issue, but without cvs, dd gameplay still is pretty decent imo. As for the subs, I have no idea what to expect.

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DDs have too much to do already, plain and simple. Adding subs will only give them even more work.

 

I mostly quit DDs entirely and only play them every now and then with either friends or when i've had too many drinks. I used to play with my team, communicate by chat and use their guns and my spotting and concealment to make a disgustingly effective fighting force, which generally resulted in overwhelming victories, it doesn't take more than 2 or 3 people focus firing to what a DD is spotting.

 

With CVs in the game, DDs are practically useless, especially the european ones since I can just spot you and end your life within 2 minutes max with rocket planes and there's nothing you can do about it. They have so many counters that at this point it's not worth the effort.

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I don't think I'll be able to enjoy a game with CVs + subs + dds. Most of the time that is. It will be like lottery, especially if the subs have the huge carry potential I imagine they will, in the hands of good players. An unspotable ship that can only be killed by a dd (which most teams won't have available late game). You just lay low for your division CV mate to kill the enemy dd and then you are free to torp anything in the map from point blank range. Ah I forgot, torp AND citadel.

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As a DD-main one shouldn't worry. Everything is relative. Playing a DD you will get mirrored a DD into the match. So, much like unicum CV players owe their high winrates partially to the fact they have a CV guaranteed on the other side, that in relation to their skills, is probably much less skilled, a good DD player doesn't necessarily have to fight off CVs and submarines, but just have more impact than his mirror.

 

I had a bit of an epiphany when I was bored a couple of months back and started a second account: In the beginning, new players get this special matchmaking, with only newbs in it. There are so few new players, that the teams are filled up with bots on both sides. So I regularly fought battles with 11 bots against 11 bots and one human. At first I made it my mission to identify the human and duel him. But with early ships, gunning each other down at close to mid range, doesn't require much skill, so I lost a couple of battles or came close to losing. Then I changed my perspective, I also thought the other player deserved to get some XP. So I started staying away from the one human player and spam the enemy bots. Now I got myself in a frenzy and chewed up 5 - 8 bots per battle. And the epiphany: I didn't even need to shoot it out with my human opponent, at some point there were so many of my own bots left and his bots were all gone and I could just watch as my bots massacred those players.

 

Did I stretch your attention? Sorry. But the point is, you don't need to counter your mirror, you just need to do better than your mirror and the team will (hopefully) do the rest.

 

More and more tasks to fulfil for a DD are a threat but also an opportunity.

Each new task may be the one that overstrains your abilities. A DD player who was superior at cap control and fighting DDs, compared to his peers, might have lost some quality, if he failed at protecting against CVs or radars or ever better DD-hunters. Now with the prospect of submarines coming to the game, there is yet another task to fulfil, that you can excel at or not. There is also a chance, that you will do very well, much better than other DD-players and that this evolution in DD-play makes you even better, even more effective and successful. After all you are not the only DD-player who has to overcome this new challenge.

Maybe fulfilling multiple tasks each with less focus can even be less of a burden than focussing on one task but having to attribute your whole attention to excel. If you think about this game. If it was the simplest shooter, with no builds and armor and whatnot, it would boil down to who has the better reflexes. The players with the fastest reflexes would be the unicums and other players, no matter how thoughtful, would be inferior. It is the mix of your knowledge of mechanisms and reflexes and tactical understanding that makes you perform in WoWs.

If you are good at these multiple dimensions of quality, you become a good player.

 

DDs are specifically that attractive to play, because they demand so much awareness, so much understanding of all the levels of what is going on in this game. So one more challenge likely is not what will stretch your performance, it will rather further punish the bad DD-players.

 

 

Is that a good thing? For good players, yes. For the game? Not so much. As we see with CVs, classes with a high skill variance promote one-sided battles, which many players complain about, since they are not satisfying for both teams. The last thing the game needs is another CV-like class that has the impact on the game to allow for winrates between 20% and 80%.

 

 

The task for Wargaming is to make submarines such, that DDs do not get even more impact on the game, but also that DDs do not become obsolete. That will require a DD-rework to accompany the introduction of submarines. If DDs now are at even greater risk of getting a bloody nose, maybe DDs should get heals, and I am not talking about those "second chance" Daring heals, but real heals like on the Neustrashimy, heals that reflect the everyday situation of a DD of getting into an unforeseeable trap and barely make it out alive, sentenced to play for the rest of the battle stealthtorping with 10% hp.

 

Really, I think the big picture is not if submarines will stretch DD-players abilities. I think nobody can dispute that they will, and that a lot of less skilled DD-players will struggle and stop playing DDs altogether, introducing the same harmful development we have seen with CVs for years. The big question mark is how WG will change the other classes to keep the balance and impact of each class reasonable.

 

edit:

And btw, I don't think it is appropriate to react negative to the OP. Way I see it, this is a very necessary discussion. There is no right or wrong answer, unless driven by the spite of not playing a certain class and disregarding other players right to have a reasonably enjoyable game experience.

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And yet, despite all this crap above, DDs are THE ship class to carry your standard issue, potato, team, mark 1

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3 hours ago, AlexeiCrimson said:

Its the curse of light & fast vehicles in any game.

Most of them are slower than a lot of cruisers and in some cases even BBs. :Smile_sad:

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I go thru phases; DD after DD game, then it’s BB or cruisers and now and again Cvs. I’m currently fixated on EU DDs, initially having played the dire and dreary T5, and 6, i thought oh god another a French like DD branch, however the Skane changed that opinion, Oland is a huge improvement so I have great expectations for T9 and T10, unlike I did for RN Heavies, where I’ve stayed at T8 by choice.

 

Picking the right DD is key; good concealment, quick and good guns, good torps, and effective AA are key, It’s  weird but I actually prefer playing a DD without smoke, it’s less restrictive and less of a target magnet.

 

Radar remains my biggest bug bear, and it totally undermines the one core thing we crave; concealment, what is the point of putting a DD into the game with a 5.5 km (Lightning)concealment when torps only go to 8km and is uptiered most of the time and faces multiple ships with 10Km + Radar.

 

Improvements

 

1. nerf all radar to 8km

2. reduce cv spotting of DDs to 1km

 

 

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3 hours ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

Most viable DDs to play based on this is pretty much

  • Daring (because heal and many smokes)
  • 20 Km Asashio (because 20 km and smokes)
  • 20 Km Shimakaze (because 20 km and smokes) fun right?

That would mean, no spotting, no capping, no helping at all.

 

And this is the current meta Today!!

 

I cant help but disagree with that.

 

First (I didnt want to quote the entire post) but all of those starting questions, that you have listed, have been around since forever. Nothing really changed in that sense. And AA on your own DD is not really a point anyway because thats not your role. Sure, against a bad CV you will drop planes, but then its not needed. Those CVs are not threat for your team and they will lose their planes anyway. Against a good CV - your AA wont matter, simple as that.

 

Lets move on. You can play any DD in this meta most of the time. If you face a super unicum CV that will wipe you out as he pleases - tough luck. Happens. But it happens in 1 or 2 of 100 games. Ever since the CV rework happened, I basically became a DD main, because it simply gives you the highest impact on the outcome of the game. Unless you are capable of playing a CV yourself, that is. And yea, I have my best results in DDs in the past 16 Months. Also, I play all DDs. If anything, im struggeling in the T8+ Pan-Asian, because im missing anti-DD-tools and well, Hsienyang might just be the worst DD around in the game.

 

So its more of a adapt & overcome situation, honestly. I play Kiev without smoke, other russian DD, I play german DDs, US, British, IJN - all are working as expected. Ever since the CV rework, DD gameplay has indeed changed. Before, there were a lot of DD vs DD interactions. And some of them really hard. This is gone to a huge degree. Many times, the enemy DDs just give up map control and objectives for free, often even with no CV in the game? It has obviously left an impression. I also get the feeling, that many average and decent DD-players are gone. The opposition I face is often really slacking in basics of DD gameplay. Which makes it even easier for me to impact the outcome of the game - and makes the class stronger in the hands of a good player.

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Sorry, I have no problem playing DDs in the current meta.

You do have to learn three things:

- check out the enemy team before game start. Know your CVs, radar cruisers and enemy DDs. Try to find out early in the game where they are on the map

- read your green team quickly. Are they noobs, campers or YOLO suicides: you are on your own, reduce your risk taking accordingly

- be quite careful on first contact with the red team. Do not go into spots or situations where you don't know what's behind your detection horizon. NB this does not mean hanging back or not capping, just knowing exactly how far you can push and having an appropriate exit strategy

 

Do this and you can play DDs fine.

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19 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

1. nerf all radar to 8km

Not happening as WG is aware of destroyers having too high impact on the game. I mean, when you see in spreadsheet situation, where team that manages to not throw all DDs by 5 minute mark have noticeably higher chance to win, it must be clear DDs are OP:cap_book: 

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51 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

I go thru phases; DD after DD game, then it’s BB or cruisers and now and again Cvs. I’m currently fixated on EU DDs, initially having played the dire and dreary T5, and 6, i thought oh god another a French like DD branch, however the Skane changed that opinion, Oland is a huge improvement so I have great expectations for T9 and T10, unlike I did for RN Heavies, where I’ve stayed at T8 by choice.

 

Picking the right DD is key; good concealment, quick and good guns, good torps, and effective AA are key, It’s  weird but I actually prefer playing a DD without smoke, it’s less restrictive and less of a target magnet.

You won't be disappointed, I found grinding the Oland and Oyster to be quite fun and the Halland is a great DD 

 

The thing I like about higher tier EU DDs is their AA unlike other nations DDs, EU DDs can handle themselves and will definitely hurt the CV planes.

 

Found farming AA defence expert achievements quite satisfying with my Halland  

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Testing subs, this is the absolute WORST thing I have ever seen.

 

Impossible to find, disgusting spotting, no arming range on the torpedoes, i can pop up next to a BB and drop torps 1km away and citadel him and either delete or almost delete him from the game, no reason to surface, DDs can't counter because the second they get spotted, this is easily the most disgusting thing I have seen in any online game in my life.

 

If this makes it on the live servers I am getting the hell out of this game and taking my money elsewhere, this is a failure of massive proportions.

 

You can't counter them as a DD without dropping other things like capping, and even then you have to be careful NOT to get torped by them since torpedoes have no arming distance and if you get too close from the rear or front, you gonna get torped.

 

Hurray for adding even MORE roles to DDs taht already have too much.

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27 minutes ago, martin035 said:

You won't be disappointed, I found grinding the Oland and Oyster to be quite fun and the Halland is a great DD 

 

The thing I like about higher tier EU DDs is their AA unlike other nations DDs, EU DDs can handle themselves and will definitely hurt the CV planes.

 

Found farming AA defence expert achievements quite satisfying with my Halland  

Ignoring Kidd, Oland is the first DD I play where I actually hope to see a cv, imho I prefer Oland to the US premium those fast quick reloading torps do far more  during the course of a game than kidds slower (speed and reload), shorter ranged torps. 
 

I posted a topic about the Skane being balanced last week, going on my experience thus far with the oland it looks like T7-10  are all pretty perfect, any one of the following and they’d be op; smoke, longer range guns, more Dpm, harder hitting torps and bigger Health pool.

 

Its refreshing to see WG actually get something right.

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9 minutes ago, LazyVegetable said:

Testing subs, this is the absolute WORST thing I have ever seen.

 

Impossible to find, disgusting spotting, no arming range on the torpedoes, i can pop up next to a BB and drop torps 1km away and citadel him and either delete or almost delete him from the game, no reason to surface, DDs can't counter because the second they get spotted, this is easily the most disgusting thing I have seen in any online game in my life.

 

If this makes it on the live servers I am getting the hell out of this game and taking my money elsewhere, this is a failure of massive proportions.

 

You can't counter them as a DD without dropping other things like capping, and even then you have to be careful NOT to get torped by them since torpedoes have no arming distance and if you get too close from the rear or front, you gonna get torped.

 

Hurray for adding even MORE roles to DDs taht already have too much.

We’re talking about WG, remember the awful cvs fiasco, Subs are gonna totally screw up the game, and like cvs WG will bury their head in the sand day say everything’s alright, push out premium subs and then provide countless updates, like cvs they won’t retract “their” monumental error.

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4 hours ago, Taliesn said:

And pre-rework CVs could permaspot not only you but the other two DDs in your team at the same time. We didn't hear about it because lack of CVs, but it was certainly more a matter of not being many CVs that masked this rather than that CVs couldn't turn a DDs life both miserable and very, very short.

 

Still the highest ceiling & lowest floor class in the game, that hasn't changed at all.

No, it was not an issue, because your CV could cover you with fighters and there was very effective AA (even on some DDs like the Grozovoi and Gearing f.e.). DDs are the last class that heavily depends on teamplay. Does your team shoot the other DD that you are detecting at the risk of your ship ? Does the team shoot radar cruisers with priority ? Is your CV good enough to know when he needs to spot the enemy DD so you/your team can finish him and not go damage farming ?

 

The other classes are much more self-sufficient, the CV is completely self-sufficient.

 

But to add to the discussion, I do not complicate my gameplay with so many considerations at the start, as my team support determines a lot of my gameplay. I'll happily die in the first 5 minutes if the team does not work with me and let them lose the game (or work harder for the win). I often sacrifice my own damage just to spot on a flank so the rest of the team can farm the enemy and we do win.

 

In case I want some selfish fun, I take out the Khabarovsk and just farm damage on anything that comes within gun range. I do occasionally take out the TRB Shira and Kagero, but those get out less and less.

 

Basically the ship selection or the priority of ships I use changed some, but my gameplay is mostly the same.

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4 hours ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

As a DD-main one shouldn't worry. Everything is relative. Playing a DD you will get mirrored a DD into the match. So, much like unicum CV players owe their high winrates partially to the fact they have a CV guaranteed on the other side, that in relation to their skills, is probably much less skilled, a good DD player doesn't necessarily have to fight off CVs and submarines, but just have more impact than his mirror.

 

Then you realize that MM does not care about ship capabilities just the class. Playing the wrong DD at the wrong time of day can result in a Khaba+Kleber against double Shima matchup. If you drew luck on the radar or CV side, you are fine. If not, nothing you do will win you the game if the enemy DDs don't screw up royally ... CVs have this much easier as the fighter capabilities are no longer the deciding factor for them that they cannot influence.

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4 hours ago, Taliesn said:

 

Games pretty much still get favourably decided by the team whose DDs spot and cap, rarely by the ones with DDs that stay among the BBs lauching 20km torps. If your DDs are launching 20km torps far away from the caps, you have just given the enemy team a huge advantage.

 

And pre-rework CVs could permaspot not only you but the other two DDs in your team at the same time. We didn't hear about it because lack of CVs, but it was certainly more a matter of not being many CVs that masked this rather than that CVs couldn't turn a DDs life both miserable and very, very short.

 

Still the highest ceiling & lowest floor class in the game, that hasn't changed at all.

It also favourable dicided by the team that has DDs still alive, spotting and capping has a pretty negative effect on that. 

 

 

4 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

If WG decides to put subs into Random games, I hope they have the decency to make subs and cvs mutually exclusive. That shouldn't be that hard.

 

I'm not sure about the purpose of the thread. Is it about the current Random meta or fears of the upcoming, potentially sub-infested meta?

If it's the former, I think we all know about the cv issue, but without cvs, dd gameplay still is pretty decent imo. As for the subs, I have no idea what to expect.

 

Both current and future. How often do one see a alive DD halfway thru the match these days? Not that common, and those who atually survive is often Unicum or playing it really safe due to the current Meta. Usually you have 2-3 dead DDs in first 3 min right after the first spotting/Initial fight.

And I think we can count on subs in random in the near future, WG didnt invest all this to have it be a stand alone game mode, and now that are also launching a new stealthradar cruiser line that will infest every match the coming 6-8 month. And whats next? They added rocket planes to CVs that before just had torp and dive bombers, maybe ad a 4th squadron carrying some new nasty? AP rockets is already in the works, so whats next?

 

3 hours ago, Panocek said:

And yet, despite all this crap above, DDs are THE ship class to carry your standard issue, potato, team, mark 1

 

If they still alive, yes. But that will just get harder and harder for every new DD killing BS WG ads.

 

2 hours ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

Most of them are slower than a lot of cruisers and in some cases even BBs. :Smile_sad:

 

Halleluja! Its a great thing to get chased by a Georgia in a Slow [edited]DD with his 11.3 km secondarys and you cant get away and you cant disengage.

 

1 hour ago, MadBadDave said:

I go thru phases; DD after DD game, then it’s BB or cruisers and now and again Cvs. I’m currently fixated on EU DDs, initially having played the dire and dreary T5, and 6, i thought oh god another a French like DD branch, however the Skane changed that opinion, Oland is a huge improvement so I have great expectations for T9 and T10, unlike I did for RN Heavies, where I’ve stayed at T8 by choice.

 

Picking the right DD is key; good concealment, quick and good guns, good torps, and effective AA are key, It’s  weird but I actually prefer playing a DD without smoke, it’s less restrictive and less of a target magnet.

 

Radar remains my biggest bug bear, and it totally undermines the one core thing we crave; concealment, what is the point of putting a DD into the game with a 5.5 km (Lightning)concealment when torps only go to 8km and is uptiered most of the time and faces multiple ships with 10Km + Radar.

 

Improvements

 

1. nerf all radar to 8km

2. reduce cv spotting of DDs to 1km

 

 

T8 was the turd in tha line for me. Östergötland and Halland are great!!

 

 

1 hour ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

I cant help but disagree with that.

 

First (I didnt want to quote the entire post) but all of those starting questions, that you have listed, have been around since forever. Nothing really changed in that sense. And AA on your own DD is not really a point anyway because thats not your role. Sure, against a bad CV you will drop planes, but then its not needed. Those CVs are not threat for your team and they will lose their planes anyway. Against a good CV - your AA wont matter, simple as that.

 

Lets move on. You can play any DD in this meta most of the time. If you face a super unicum CV that will wipe you out as he pleases - tough luck. Happens. But it happens in 1 or 2 of 100 games. Ever since the CV rework happened, I basically became a DD main, because it simply gives you the highest impact on the outcome of the game. Unless you are capable of playing a CV yourself, that is. And yea, I have my best results in DDs in the past 16 Months. Also, I play all DDs. If anything, im struggeling in the T8+ Pan-Asian, because im missing anti-DD-tools and well, Hsienyang might just be the worst DD around in the game.

 

So its more of a adapt & overcome situation, honestly. I play Kiev without smoke, other russian DD, I play german DDs, US, British, IJN - all are working as expected. Ever since the CV rework, DD gameplay has indeed changed. Before, there were a lot of DD vs DD interactions. And some of them really hard. This is gone to a huge degree. Many times, the enemy DDs just give up map control and objectives for free, often even with no CV in the game? It has obviously left an impression. I also get the feeling, that many average and decent DD-players are gone. The opposition I face is often really slacking in basics of DD gameplay. Which makes it even easier for me to impact the outcome of the game - and makes the class stronger in the hands of a good player.

 

Most have been around for ages, then came Hydro DDs, then came Radar DDs, then came 100 knot DDs with MBRB, then game BBs outunning DDs, then came rocket planes, then new US radarcruiser line, then a crap ton of other stuf I cant even remember right now, then they are implementing subs (that DDs should try and hunt), then comes new Russ Steath radar line ..... Whats next? When does it end with BS directed at killing 1 class in the game?! The most vounarable class in the game!

 

Not having AA menas that if you runned out of smokes your crap out of luck. You are dead! No counters no nothing. When a regular Joe in a CV can defeat a Super unicum DD player in the late game there is something wrong.

1 hour ago, Camperdown said:

Sorry, I have no problem playing DDs in the current meta.

You do have to learn three things:

- check out the enemy team before game start. Know your CVs, radar cruisers and enemy DDs. Try to find out early in the game where they are on the map

- read your green team quickly. Are they noobs, campers or YOLO suicides: you are on your own, reduce your risk taking accordingly

- be quite careful on first contact with the red team. Do not go into spots or situations where you don't know what's behind your detection horizon. NB this does not mean hanging back or not capping, just knowing exactly how far you can push and having an appropriate exit strategy

 

Do this and you can play DDs fine.

The problem is this just keeps on getting harder. I do all those things you write every game. But how will that help you in the future when you have a CV that can spott you whenever, server is flooded with old radars and new Russian stealthradars, subs spotting you whenever whereever and you cant even see where he is?! How will you counter all this? Im pretty decent DD player and I dont have an intelligent answer for that.

 

And this is just stuf we know of being implemented right now, there is a bunch of other crap in the works we dont even know about, hence my question in the OP, is this the direction we want?

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Hey,

 

I would add some things to the line: What kind of DDs the enemy have and what do you?

Because I choose differently if I am in a Gearing and the enemy is an Asashio or a Daring.

 

What did you bring in the battle?

Smoke or TRB.

 

Also about the meta:

In the old times ships had to rely on each other. So when a cruiser had for example hydro then it did not have smoke or radar or anything else. He had to get radar from someone else. But right now we are at the situation that every cruiser has  hydro and almost every has radar. Many of them both. "Oh there is a DD in that smoke. Lets pop hydro and spot him. Oh he left? Let's pop radar and spot him for another 60 seconds!"

 

Many people say that they hate that radar and hydro goes thru land. I don't mind because it creates opportunities on both sides. I think it is a good thing.

 

The problem is the amount of radars in the game and how long they last. Like 60-70% of cruisers have radar and many other ships. This combined with the fact that almost 70-80% of the ships have hydro makes DDs very hard to play. Reduce the number of the ships that have access to radar. And on top of that make it a choice. If a ship has radar it shouldn't have hydro and vice versa.

 

Just by reducing the number of radars and hydro in the game by something like 30-40% it would make DDs actually playable and capping possible.

 

Right now in this meta it is not possible to use DDs to cap. In the last 2-3 weeks I have played like 60-70% of the capping was done by any other class because the DD was running for its life.

 

Playing a DD in this meta is like running thru a mine field. It is not impossible to survive but very unlikely.

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