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Gnomus

What is wrong with WG events and marketing (in my opinion, obviously)

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All these points are fitting to the PR event on crismas, but since then the events improved a lot. I khnow that these events are not perfeckt, but at least they improved. 

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23 minutes ago, firerider202 said:

All these points are fitting to the PR event on crismas, but since then the events improved a lot. I khnow that these events are not perfeckt, but at least they improved. 

To me that is like complimenting assault by saying at least (s)he's not stabbing me with a feces dipped knife in the back, repeatedly, like before, but bludgeoning my head in with a vomit layered baseball bat. :cap_like:

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Vor 25 Minuten, Europizza sagte:

To me that is like complimenting assault by saying at least (s)he's not stabbing me with a feces dipped knife in the back, repeatedly, like before, but bludgeoning my head in with a vomit layered baseball bat.

So you want wg to give you all event rewards guaranteed and with no effort?

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Don't bother, Wargaming is sacrificing its reputation and doesn't care about criticism anymore.

 

This is alarming since the importance of reputation in the field of Game Theory depends on the duration of a business relationship.

 

In short:
Each party of a mutual relationship will try to establish a favorable reputation, as long as they need the cooperation of the other party to get the best outcome for themselves. As soon as the end of that relation is known, the party will sacrifice that reputation and cease to cooperate in order to get an even higher revenue in the last period of that business relationship.

 

In terms of this game:

Wargaming tries to be fair and generous as long as they want to establish the game and attract new players. A shift towards abusing the willingness to pay, while accepting the decay of its player base is a sign that the shutdown of this game is planned for some point in time unknown to us, but known to them. We see the beginning of an exit strategy. Time to put your money elsewhere.

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5 minutes ago, firerider202 said:

So you want wg to give you all event rewards guaranteed and with no effort?

 

That's just plain stupid assumption to make. I envy you.

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1 hour ago, firerider202 said:

So you want wg to give you all event rewards guaranteed and with no effort?

Eh. What?

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I finally got around to reviewing WOWS for Steam the other day.

 

April is the first month that reviews have gone from "positive" or "overwhelmingly positive" to "mixed". At this point in time 2,411 negatives to 2,891 positives. Until now the balance has been about 8 to 1, as new players are asked to leave feedback (without bribery) and the positive reviews are coming from players with single and double digit playing times. Now the veterans with hundreds and thousands of hours played are making their feelings known. Hopefully, even if non-RU forums are ignored, this change will get noticed.

 

https://store.steampowered.com/app/552990/World_of_Warships for those interested.

 

I'm sitting on 8 days Premium time left and I'm just surfing the internet and listening to music. My motivation is even play now is almost non-existent.

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19 minutes ago, DanSilverwing said:

Hopefully, even if non-RU forums are ignored, this change will get noticed.

uhm, how about "nope" (or rather: evenif they would notice, they probably wouldn't give a f*ck)

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First of all, this is bad in general. Having different reward for the same work is just plainly bad.

You see, you got this wrong. The primary reward is the same for the same work. However the primary reward is not usable for anything, it is just another type of currency (be it tokens, containers or other crap) used to pay for the reward, or pay to get into the next currency tier etc.

 

 They (WG) are fully aware of this, in fact they are adding another indirect layer basically every 2 events now. Usually RNG, is included at every exchange operation after the primary reward was obtained.

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There wasn't event where I couldn't estimate how much time I need to put into it in advance, like what events do you have had problems with?

Overpriced? Maybe not  really if someone is paying?  Otherwise prices would be lower.

Lots of free to play games heavily rely on RNG... I'd very much prefer subscrition fees, but most players wouldn't want to pay...

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3 hours ago, firerider202 said:

So you want wg to give you all event rewards guaranteed and with no effort?

Yes, that is precisely what he asked for, well done, +1for your reading comprehension score.

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3 minutes ago, Perekotypole said:

I'd very much prefer subscrition fees, but most players wouldn't want to pay...

There are subscription fees - its called "Premium time", but in classic WG form, even if you buy it in bulk it is never discounted.... so there's f-all point subscribing.
"Subscribe here and save sweet-fanny-adam!"

They are genius-level Marketeers at WeeGee.

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Vor 8 Minuten, Starchy_Tuber sagte:

There are subscription fees - its called "Premium time", but in classic WG form, even if you buy it in bulk it is never discounted.... so there's f-all point subscribing.
"Subscribe here and save sweet-fanny-adam!"

premium time costs 40 euro per year. That's 4 euro per month, not much of a subscription fee. And probably third of players don't buy premium.

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Vor 4 Stunden, HMS_Kilinowski sagte:

Wargaming tries to be fair and generous as long as they want to establish the game and attract new players. A shift towards abusing the willingness to pay, while accepting the decay of its player base is a sign that the shutdown of this game is planned for some point in time unknown to us, but known to them. We see the beginning of an exit strategy. Time to put your money elsewhere.

Don't dramatize, there's no such thing as exit strategy, cause it would involve firing employees or diverting them to other games. We haven't heard anything like that. Also you talk as if WG owe you some entertainment in future. They don't, and if they decide game is not profitable enough, to keep paying salaries of their 100 employees, they can shut it down any moment, together with all the ships you bought and grinded.

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2 minutes ago, Perekotypole said:

Don't dramatize, there's no such thing as exit strategy, cause it would involve firing employees or diverting them to other games. We haven't heard anything like that. Also you talk as if WG owe you some entertainment in future. They don't, and if they decide game is not profitable enough, to keep paying salaries of their 100 employees, they can shut it down any moment, together with all the ships you bought and grinded.

WG,

have this guy send his résumé to you. He fits in your team perfectly.

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1 hour ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

You see, you got this wrong. The primary reward is the same for the same work. However the primary reward is not usable for anything, it is just another type of currency (be it tokens, containers or other crap) used to pay for the reward, or pay to get into the next currency tier etc.

 

 They (WG) are fully aware of this, in fact they are adding another indirect layer basically every 2 events now. Usually RNG, is included at every exchange operation after the primary reward was obtained.

 

That another layer is the problem. That layer is full RNG, so even if primary layer reward is same "x lottety tickets", the actual reward is not the same.

 

This is just similar whitewash as with the boxes where box is visible before buying, so it is not gambling, for that single box. You know what you get. Except when you do not know how many boxes you will be needing and what you get from them, so any time you need more than the first one it becomes gambling. 

 

53 minutes ago, Perekotypole said:

There wasn't event where I couldn't estimate how much time I need to put into it in advance, like what events do you have had problems with?

Overpriced? Maybe not  really if someone is paying?  Otherwise prices would be lower.

Lots of free to play games heavily rely on RNG... I'd very much prefer subscrition fees, but most players wouldn't want to pay...

 

Like European destroyers. How much work would I have needed to get Visby? Could have been 2, could have been 20. How many directives I would have needed to get Västerås? Could have been dailies and first directives or could have been "no matter if I do everything possible (apart from opening wallet)".

 

Similar to British cruisers part 1. How many boxes would I need to have Hawkings? Do I need to play for both daily boxes (quite a grind) or would one per day be enough (quite easy)? Of course answer is: "No matter how much you gather boxes you might never get single early access ship." Or you could have gotten Albemarle on first box and could stop grinding there. As I said, no way of knowing in advance what is needed. You can't go back retroactively and do daily missions from few weeks back when noticing work you did was not enough. 

 

You can estimate time needed to get x amount of boxes. When content of those boxes is unknown and random you can't know how many boxes you will need. So there is no way of knowing what is needed to get certain reward (actual reward, not x amount of lottery tickets). 

 

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1 hour ago, Perekotypole said:

premium time costs 40 euro per year. That's 4 euro per month, not much of a subscription fee. And probably third of players don't buy premium.

Its £67.50 for 360 days.. and that's beside the point - subscriptions should offer discounts... it's known as an "incentive".

 

45 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

WG,

have this guy send his résumé to you. He fits in your team perfectly.

Indeed, he would.

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Vor 6 Minuten, Gnomus sagte:

Like European destroyers. How much work would I have needed to get Visby? Could have been 2, could have been 20. How many directives I would have needed to get Västerås? Could have been dailies and first directives or could have been "no matter if I do everything possible (apart from opening wallet)".

 

Similar to British cruisers part 1. How many boxes would I need to have Hawkings? Do I need to play for both daily boxes (quite a grind) or would one per day be enough (quite easy)? Of course answer is: "No matter how much you gather boxes you might never get single early access ship." Or you could have gotten Albemarle on first box and could stop grinding there. As I said, no way of knowing in advance what is needed. You can't go back retroactively and do daily missions from few weeks back when noticing work you did was not enough. 

 

You can estimate time needed to get x amount of boxes. When content of those boxes is unknown and random you can't know how many boxes you will need. So there is no way of knowing what is needed to get certain reward (actual reward, not x amount of lottery tickets). 

Both european DDs and british cruisers are early access events. In my honest opinion WG can do anything they want with it, and make money however they see fit, cause those events aren't exclusive. You can get all those ships any time you like after they are released, and buy premium camo for them.

In european cruiser event I held onto my tokens till last directive was left to do, that's two weeks before event ended. I only had to estimate how many tokens I get from last directive, from last 7 boxes. 20k base XP missions take like 15 games per ship, easily doable in two weeks for three ships. British cruisers, don't remember much, but I got London without grinding it intentionally, plus tier 5 and 6 with camos for free. Italian cruisers, I got tier 8 for free and tier 7 premium one, also didn't have to grind anything... That's quite a lot stuff for free, and I'm sure my RNG wasn't above average. Other players who got as much free stuff as me complaining they want more feels strange.

And again all those events are early access. You can easilly calculate alternative cost of obtaining them. Tier 7 ship takes this many games to grind and this much silver, just look statistics for your other ships, and this many doublons for camos. Also calculate opportunity cost for other things you can get for tokens, like silver and flags. Honestly I don't know why would anybody spend money on early access ships, considering all those factors. But people do.

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Vor 12 Stunden, Starchy_Tuber sagte:

Yes, that is precisely what he asked for, well done, +1for your reading comprehension score.

he asked to make the rewards less rng based, and the tasks even easier than they are now. That with get everything for free with no effort was obviously extreme, but that is what it comes down to. In the pan eu event you got a guaranteed reward if you collect all container from the directives, and you could finish the directives in 2 days without problems. I just dont khnow how to make it even easier.

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19 hours ago, Perekotypole said:

Both european DDs and british cruisers are early access events. In my honest opinion WG can do anything they want with it, and make money however they see fit, cause those events aren't exclusive. You can get all those ships any time you like after they are released, and buy premium camo for them.

In european cruiser event I held onto my tokens till last directive was left to do, that's two weeks before event ended. I only had to estimate how many tokens I get from last directive, from last 7 boxes. 20k base XP missions take like 15 games per ship, easily doable in two weeks for three ships. British cruisers, don't remember much, but I got London without grinding it intentionally, plus tier 5 and 6 with camos for free. Italian cruisers, I got tier 8 for free and tier 7 premium one, also didn't have to grind anything... That's quite a lot stuff for free, and I'm sure my RNG wasn't above average. Other players who got as much free stuff as me complaining they want more feels strange.

And again all those events are early access. You can easilly calculate alternative cost of obtaining them. Tier 7 ship takes this many games to grind and this much silver, just look statistics for your other ships, and this many doublons for camos. Also calculate opportunity cost for other things you can get for tokens, like silver and flags. Honestly I don't know why would anybody spend money on early access ships, considering all those factors. But people do.

 

Yes WG can do as they wish. It is their game after all. I'm asking them not to be jerks. They have all the right to be jerks, I'm not denying that. I'm saying that I do not like them behaving in such a manner.

 

With British cruisers someone got Albemarle on first box. Some other people opened 30-40 boxes and didn't get even Hawkings. Sure it is "free stuff", but WG could have made is so that 10 box Hawking, 20 to Devonshire, 30 to Surrey and 40 to Albemarle. Not random, everything open to see what you get with what kind of commitment.

 

With European destroyers Visby was certain (that was nice thing at least), but then getting Västerås or Skåne was not down to commitment and work, but just pure luck.

 

Why not equal reward for equal work? It would be fair. Then everyone would know how big commitment is needed for certain reward and can try to do it or not touch it.

 

Only reason for RNG is that it makes it easier to sell minor lottery tickets to people, hook them up to spent little and then little more because sunken cost. 

 

I'm not giving money for this kind of things, but I can still see how toxic and aggressive such system is. It is not straight forward "buy this captain, only 10 000 doubloons" or "get early access, just 8000 doubloons", but these "nice" for lowly 500 doubloon you get change to have a captain (be prepared to pay 15 000+). Whole system is made manipulative. 

 

I can raise my opinion about such bad behavior, even if it's "free". (Note: It is not free.) 

 

8 hours ago, firerider202 said:

he asked to make the rewards less rng based, and the tasks even easier than they are now. That with get everything for free with no effort was obviously extreme, but that is what it comes down to. In the pan eu event you got a guaranteed reward if you collect all container from the directives, and you could finish the directives in 2 days without problems. I just dont khnow how to make it even easier.

 

Where did you get this "easier" you are talking so much about?

 

Less RNG. Known reward for known work/commitment. Less toxic marketing.

 

It could even be harder. Like do something, get Västerås. Do a lot and you get Västerås. Work your [edited]off 24/7 and get Skåne. If necessary add option for buy Oland straight with 10 000 doubloons (WG level of overpricing for early acces) and 15 000 doubloons for Östergotland to fill WG coffers.

 

Now it was: Get something between Västerös and Östergotland, not base on commitment and work done, but on your luck. And of course you can buy these "cheap" bonus tickets to nudge your luck a little (and even then amount of a nudge is again RNG). 

 

Can't  you see where the problem is? It is not "everything for free".

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as for me, i just decided to give no feedback at all anymore on anything to them. they wanna screw it up, they shall do so! no money for permacamos ever from me again, maybe a ship inbetween i absolutely want, up to the point where my impression of them driving it totally over the top i totally gonna close my wallet, that easy. feels not good, as i luv the game (or more the people i go with by now ^^). but, they want it, so they should get from me...

wish me luck with holding throught to not post lol, as the part with the camos/money is the easy part on it....

#rhetoricalcaseftw

 

ofc they dont care about this in my personal case. idc, it's for me not for them. as, in doubt, all the feedback i gave b4. they just achieved that it not is important to at least me anymore... to measure this as good or bad indicator is on them again anyway lol.... and we all know what lane they seem to choose on such lately more and more :Smile_facepalm:

 

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Vor 55 Minuten, Gnomus sagte:

I'm not giving money for this kind of things, but I can still see how toxic and aggressive such system is. It is not straight forward "buy this captain, only 10 000 doubloons" or "get early access, just 8000 doubloons", but these "nice" for lowly 500 doubloon you get change to have a captain (be prepared to pay 15 000+). Whole system is made manipulative. 

You dont have to pay for any of these things, but if other people want to pay for it, let them. that has nothing to do with manipulation

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