Jump to content
Flandre Bug Read more... ×
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
mariouus

Vertical Dispersion/Range changed?

26 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Players
1,112 posts
11,989 battles

During last patch or two, vertical dispersion, or rather Range, feels off. Before, if you got your aiming point right, even if the shells did not hit, you did bracket the target (some shells fell short, some went over). During this  (and possibly, one patch before that) full salvos often fall short - even if you aim relatively high. 

 

It looks weird not only from shooters perspective, but also as a target. Alot of incoming fire falls short. Yesterday had several situations,  where I was forced do be on constant heading and was shot at by alot of enemys, only do see their salvos fall way short.

 

It is noticable in OP Aegis, where many enemys are at constant heading. It feels like the ships you are shooting at, are actually somewhat further away. Meaning, that aiming point should be alot higher than it used to. 

 

Anybody else noticed it?

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TPF-]
Players
4,469 posts
18,504 battles

Yes. There are aiming bugs about, but that's usually to do with the lock on feature picking the wrong ship in a melee.  Aegis tends to exhibit the worst of ships with poor vertical dispersion, as that constant course of the red ships means they're usually at a 45 degree angle and it's quite easy for all your shells to land around them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,112 posts
11,989 battles
3 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

There are aiming bugs about, but that's usually to do with the lock on feature picking the wrong ship in a melee.  Aegis tends to exhibit the worst of ships with poor vertical dispersion, as that constant course of the red ships means they're usually at a 45 degree angle and it's quite easy for all your shells to land around them. 

This has been always present. And I generally play Aegis from positions where I am about 65-90.angle with the enemy.

 

It feels that thise days, aiming point, needed do reliably hit the target, is about 1/3 (or 1/2) higer than it used do be.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CHEFT]
Players
12,228 posts
9,841 battles

I agree, its become to a point where im not sure where i should aim anymore.

Slow moving / stopping / reversing / stopping targets are literally unhittable. I find myself shooting halfway into the superstructure and i just manage to hit the ship. If i shoot at the belt, >90% of the salvo falls into the water in front of the ship.

 

Glorious auto-aim mechanic is glorious and never fails :cap_fainting:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SHAD]
Players
3,438 posts
14,153 battles

But it has got worse? I thought it was just me struggling to hit ships that are turning in or out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
29,665 posts
15,312 battles
18 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

But it has got worse? I thought it was just me struggling to hit ships that are turning in or out.

No, as usual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SHAD]
Players
3,438 posts
14,153 battles
4 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

No, as usual.

Learn to play issue as normal then!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-IAN-]
Players
2,043 posts
6,904 battles

Despite all the video evidence presented to WG, their own internal "testing" showed no bugs at all, so apparently every single piece of evidence is a lie and every time you shoot and the shells land short means you "suddenly" don't know how to aim despite that NEVER happening without a known reason before.

 

Yes, there's a bug but as WG can't find it they'd rather say "nope, no bug, you're all wrong" rather than say "there might be but we can't find it right now so we'll keep looking".

  • Cool 4
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
130 posts
8,091 battles

There are so many variables it’s really hard to sure. I mean there are definitely more server sync issues that messes with aiming that I’ve seen on Flamu’s streams.

 

As for dispersion...I have no idea since I don’t know how the WG formulas and coordinate system works, I suspect adding Subs might have messed with the dispersion a bit. Because I suspect underwater is already a gameplay area now it could now mean more shots go low compared to before, even if nothing have change per se with the formulas. But this pure speculation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CHEFT]
Players
12,228 posts
9,841 battles
6 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

Despite all the video evidence presented to WG, their own internal "testing" showed no bugs at all, so apparently every single piece of evidence is a lie and every time you shoot and the shells land short means you "suddenly" don't know how to aim despite that NEVER happening without a known reason before.

 

Yes, there's a bug but as WG can't find it they'd rather say "nope, no bug, you're all wrong" rather than say "there might be but we can't find it right now so we'll keep looking".

 

While i dont know, how WG is testing it, i suppose they might just do tests in training rooms. For some reason, tests in trainingrooms never got the same results as whats happening in PvP modes. If you shoot a stationary bot in the training room, i can guarantee you, that you wont experience shells constantly falling short (ive done my fair share with tests).

Same with DDs receiving multi-pen damage: Which i prove is down to DDs (ships in general) making turns. Shooting stationary bots, you will never get multi-pen damage. But when the ship is moving, and you shoot in the turn, you can get more damage per shell.

 

Back to aim assist, luckily i was watching flamu yesterday and he showed that clip, and i managed to find it

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/593496363?t=5h25m10s

 

I believe, the aim assist bugs out, because ships in a full turn are not moving the direction they are supposed to, since they are sliding outwards. So a combination of speed + rudder creates different movement to how the aim assist expects the target to move. Naturally, aim assist thinks we are all [edited]morons who cant aim, and corrects it for us. Can also be frequently seen, when a ship is beaching. i should have recorded that one time when i predicted it perfectly, and i actually shot totaly into the island (where i never aimed ofc)

 

https://www.twitch.tv/flamuu/clip/EnergeticFairPhoneTakeNRG?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time

Another example, not as clear cut as the first tho.

 

https://www.twitch.tv/flamuu/clip/VibrantCalmCrabRalpherZ?filter=clips&range=24hr&sort=time

Another bug ive seen lately, happens especially often with fast firing ships like DDs or Minotaur. I expect zooming in/out and shooting too fast to cause this bug. I get it frequently too.

 

Also the times blindfire has given me much superior results than to actually aim at the ship is rediculous. Like a ship going into smoke, shoot it, get overpens. Shoot same spot again, Citadels. Or when i keep shooting a target which is unspotted, i hit more AND i often get fires even. Also works if you aim at a different ship to improve your dispersion.

 

- Aim assist is bugged

- Dispersion is bugged

- Dispersion debuffs (like on Camos/Concealment mod) are doing more than they should ? Thats what i expect when you shoot at a ship while targeting another: The game cant handle this well, so you get better hits than shooting the ship directly.

 

Either all of the above are true, or atleast part of it.

  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HARB]
Players
9 posts
5,600 battles

I've been getting a bug recently where my camera gets stuck in the free look camera, even tho im not using pressing the right mouse, making it impossible to shoot anything. Dunno if my mouse is faulty, bought a new one just in case but it might be the game.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-IAN-]
Players
2,043 posts
6,904 battles
7 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

I believe, the aim assist bugs out, because ships in a full turn are not moving the direction they are supposed to, since they are sliding outwards. So a combination of speed + rudder creates different movement to how the aim assist expects the target to move. Naturally, aim assist thinks we are all [edited]morons who cant aim, and corrects it for us. Can also be frequently seen, when a ship is beaching. i should have recorded that one time when i predicted it perfectly, and i actually shot totaly into the island (where i never aimed ofc)

 

Thats my guess too. I first noticed it during an Atlanta match where I aimed at the bow of a 12km bot Colorado which was bow on and charging me whilst I was stationary in smoke and yet all my shots STILL fell short, despite the bot coming forward, despite the shells taking about 15seconds to land (giving the bot plenty of time to move forward) and despite aiming at the bow meaning the shells "should" have hit mid-ship. I adjusted my aim to the superstructure (ship now 11km) and the next salvo landed behind the ship, so I went back to the bow (same place as before) and now at 10km the shells were hitting the superstructure as they should for the amount of lead.

 

The problem is that it's not a consistent, repeatable bug which only happens maybe 1 salvo in a few matches, but then it might suddenly be 3 times in 1 match which makes it stand out more. Either way the amount of testing WG have done isn't sufficient to find and easily provable bug with lots of video evidence which they just want to ignore rather than fix.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CHEFT]
Players
12,228 posts
9,841 battles
36 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

Thats my guess too. I first noticed it during an Atlanta match where I aimed at the bow of a 12km bot Colorado which was bow on and charging me whilst I was stationary in smoke and yet all my shots STILL fell short, despite the bot coming forward, despite the shells taking about 15seconds to land (giving the bot plenty of time to move forward) and despite aiming at the bow meaning the shells "should" have hit mid-ship. I adjusted my aim to the superstructure (ship now 11km) and the next salvo landed behind the ship, so I went back to the bow (same place as before) and now at 10km the shells were hitting the superstructure as they should for the amount of lead.

 

Funnily enough, a similar thing happened to me aswell, which made me suspect, WG changed the aim assist:

I was shooting Bow on Bots in coop, and i usually aimed ahead of the ship, where it should be when my shells land, so i overmatch the bow. My shells kept landing BEHIND the targets all the time. I even checked in the replay, doing the math with how far the ship travelled and the time it took my shells to land, it was impossible to not hit the ship. Thus the aim assist simply couldnt cope with my aiming and screwed me totaly over.

I was like "fine, ill be like a noob and aim at the bow" et voila, it worked like a charm. Btw this is totaly stupid ofc. And i cant seem to figure out, how you should be able to hit the bow or superstructure of a ship moving towards you, as this can often make a difference, like a Yamato wants to hit the bow, not the superstructure.

 

42 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

The problem is that it's not a consistent, repeatable bug which only happens maybe 1 salvo in a few matches, but then it might suddenly be 3 times in 1 match which makes it stand out more. Either way the amount of testing WG have done isn't sufficient to find and easily provable bug with lots of video evidence which they just want to ignore rather than fix.

 

I think its beyond fixable at this point, and would take quite a lot of work to fix. So im pretty sure, theyll just ignore it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Modder
5,214 posts
23,497 battles
42 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

I think its beyond fixable at this point, and would take quite a lot of work to fix. So im pretty sure, theyll just ignore it.

Imagine how hard it is, when one person wrote the code and another is trying to change it, without very detailed information and understanding of all possible problems, limitations and another changes which was introducted into a game code and program language from that time. And some things probably can't be fixed 100% at all in given game engine or people working on it have no such knowledge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,112 posts
11,989 battles
On 4/17/2020 at 1:16 PM, DFens_666 said:

- Aim assist is bugged

- Dispersion is bugged

- Dispersion debuffs (like on Camos/Concealment mod) are doing more than they should ? Thats what i expect when you shoot at a ship while targeting another: The game cant handle this well, so you get better hits than shooting the ship directly.

Does not look like dispersion issue.

 

Feels to me, that range is wrong about 200m-400m. For a cruiser, sweet spot where do aim now, seems do be at superfiring turret roof level, when ship is broadsiding (about 2X higher than normal). And about additional 2X higher when ship is traveling about 45.degree angle . Feels really unnatural.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CHEFT]
Players
12,228 posts
9,841 battles
5 minutes ago, mariouus said:

Feels to me, that range is wrong about 200m. For a cruiser, sweet spot where do aim now, seems do be at superfiring turret roof level, when ship is broadsiding (about 2X higher than normal). And about additional 2X higher when ship is traveling about 45.degree angle . Feels really unnatural.

 

And then there seems to be heavy desync at times

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/593496363?t=5h4m13s

Sadly, i didnt find the footage from yesterday, where he talked about this. But you can see that he literally doesnt hit the ship. Or, unnknown to us, Ibuki carries a Citadel infront of its ship :Smile_trollface:

 

Funnily enough, playing yesterday a couple of games it felt pretty normal, no shells going too wide or falling short on a frequent base (bad RNG can always happen ofc). But i played rather late when there were <20k players online. It could be, when we approach 30k or more players, than servers cant cope with that and then crap hits the fan so to say. Atleast during those periods ive had the weirdest things happen to me.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,112 posts
11,989 battles
15 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Funnily enough, playing yesterday a couple of games it felt pretty normal, no shells going too wide or falling short on a frequent base (bad RNG can always happen ofc).

 

Actually, when I think about it. With subs being added, where is the aim assist range zero? In order do be able do shoot Subs, it can not be at sealevel, it would always result in overshoots.

 

If, lets say, aim assist zero is now below water, lets say - 80.meters, this would cause shots fall short, because they would be aiming area below ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[1_MAN]
Beta Tester
74 posts

Well Flamu just released a video, and it quite describe the problem. So we are not blind or crazy, its just new WG fuckery [which they will ignore for few months and then half fix it and introduce a new stealthtier fuckery]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
[SCRUB]
Beta Tester
281 posts
6,705 battles
4 minutes ago, Contrador said:

Well Flamu just released a video, and it quite describe the problem. So we are not blind or crazy, its just new WG fuckery [which they will ignore for few months and then half fix it and introduce a new stealthtier fuckery]

Yes, I've seen that video and I thought my aim was off because I took a longer hiatus from the game, but nope. Tried it now with giving a bit bigger lead and yup, suddenly my aim is back to normal. This desync is frustrating af...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LAWS]
Players
81 posts
6,065 battles

Just seen flamu's video, been having this problem alot more recently, I was starting to think I was going crazy seeing shells hit and miss when they shouldnt, been trying to aim a bit further ahead but I find the bug is not happening all the time 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SHAFT]
Players
1,255 posts
25,516 battles
10 minutes ago, dan_matt said:

Just seen flamu's video, been having this problem alot more recently, I was starting to think I was going crazy seeing shells hit and miss when they shouldnt, been trying to aim a bit further ahead but I find the bug is not happening all the time 

X2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[501L]
Players
381 posts
4,327 battles

Of course we're not going to see a message from WG or @MrConway any time soon, god knows what they've done to cause the Desync to get THIS bad. For those that haven't seen Flamu's video:

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SICK]
Weekend Tester
5,141 posts
11,207 battles

I was very hesitant about keeping the game installed, after a week long trial run following a 4 month long break.

Subs were shown, then I played a single FDG game where of 6 shells fired at 4km from a perfect broadside Musashi just at the right spot, all 6 shell short significantly . 

Uninstalled right on the spot after the battle ended.


WG, if your game is going to be frustrating and infested with lootboxes, at least make it stable.
That's really the n1 priority in an online game: being ****ing playable online.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×