Mainz is the tier8 Smolensk

[Ocsimano18]

There are only a few of this ship out, but I feel that I'm facing a Smolensk whenever I meet one in a BB. It does not have smoke, but it's so far away that it cannot be hit, and you cannot push because you get spammed, and people are not focusing them like they focus a Smolensk. What do you think about its influence on the meta?

[Onsterfelijke]

Mainz is also very weak in the armor and doesn't have a heal and the HE spam is half (or even less) then a Smolensk. I got a Mainz for my Birthday from a friend and then it was of the premimum shop but i just tryed it it's not a Smolensk but more a Hipper (or just a bigger Nurnburg) with faster guns. You have to zigzag a lot which means you can not use all your guns all the time. If you stay stationair you get sunk fast.

[Panocek]

9 minutes ago, Ocsimano18 said:

There are only a few of this ship out, but I feel that I'm facing a Smolensk whenever I meet one in a BB. It does not have smoke, but it's so far away that it cannot be hit, and you cannot push because you get spammed, and people are not focusing them like they focus a Smolensk. What do you think about its influence on the meta?

Smolensk can't inflict direct HE damage except on superstructure and on destroyers...

[invicta2012]

3 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Smolensk can't inflict direct HE damage except on superstructure and on destroyers...

That doesn't really stop it.

[Miscommunication_dept]

More HE dpm than most T8 cruisers.

Higher fire chance then other cruisers even without IFHE.

 

When other cruisers use IFHE they have less pen than the Mainz and much lower fire chance.

You could try turning away and, if your battleship is not Soviet or German, the Mainz will use its massive AP dpm to make holes in your side.

 

I do think this ship is a little too strong.

[Miscommunication_dept]

3 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

That doesn't really stop it.

Exactly why I don’t equip IFHE on any light cruiser anymore.

[ColonelPete]

Mainz is nothing like Smolensk. Mainz is not that nimble that you cannot hit her and her armor is soft.

 

Mainz is strong when she has a partner to distract the target. As soon as the target is a BB and pays attention to you, you either stop firing, get out of dodge or expect a rearrangement of your ships interior.

[Endorphin187]

U cant hit her...

 

#fakenews

[MadBadDave]

1 hour ago, Ocsimano18 said:

There are only a few of this ship out, but I feel that I'm facing a Smolensk whenever I meet one in a BB. It does not have smoke, but it's so far away that it cannot be hit, and you cannot push because you get spammed, and people are not focusing them like they focus a Smolensk. What do you think about its influence on the meta?

Rofl, Yes Mainz has a fast rate of fire, but it’s no Smolensk, it has no smoke and gets blapped very easily, I came across one in Eugen yesterday, Mainz wasn’t  Mainz for very long.  Reload needs to be nerfed by 1 or 2 seconds.

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, Ocsimano18 said:

There are only a few of this ship out, but I feel that I'm facing a Smolensk whenever I meet one in a BB. It does not have smoke, but it's so far away that it cannot be hit, and you cannot push because you get spammed, and people are not focusing them like they focus a Smolensk. What do you think about its influence on the meta?

 

T8 Smolensk without Smoke which gets Citadelled super Easily.....

 

[HaachamaShipping]

When 17.5 km is too far away to hit a German heavy cruiser. When the firepower that would be comparable to pre-rework Chapayev is "the new Smolensk".

What next? Västeras is the new T6 Kleber?

3 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

Rofl, Yes Mainz has a fast rate of fire, but it’s no Smolensk, it has no smoke and gets blapped very easily, I came across one in Eugen yesterday, Mainz wasn’t  Mainz for very long.  Reload needs to be nerfed by 1 or 2 seconds.

And why would the reload need a nerf?

1 hour ago, gopher31 said:

More HE dpm than most T8 cruisers.

Higher fire chance then other cruisers even without IFHE.

 

When other cruisers use IFHE they have less pen than the Mainz and much lower fire chance.

You could try turning away and, if your battleship is not Soviet or German, the Mainz will use its massive AP dpm to make holes in your side.

 

I do think this ship is a little too strong.

About the same dpm as Chapayev, better fire chance than most T8s that are not built for optimising fire chance, but some of the worst concealment, no radar, nor any other strong consumable like Bayard's speed boost and MBRB. It's guns are basically the one thing that make the ship decent.

[Miscommunication_dept]

9 minutes ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

When 17.5 km is too far away to hit a German heavy cruiser. When the firepower that would be comparable to pre-rework Chapayev is "the new Smolensk".

What next? Västeras is the new T6 Kleber?

And why would the reload need a nerf?

About the same dpm as Chapayev, better fire chance than most T8s that are not built for optimising fire chance, but some of the worst concealment, no radar, nor any other strong consumable like Bayard's speed boost and MBRB. It's guns are basically the one thing that make the ship decent.

Guns are pretty important.

Bad guns are probably the hardest thing to play around.

 

I agree Bayard is better though.

[SSGdoncollier]

1 hour ago, Ocsimano18 said:

There are only a few of this ship out, but I feel that I'm facing a Smolensk whenever I meet one in a BB. It does not have smoke, but it's so far away that it cannot be hit, and you cannot push because you get spammed, and people are not focusing them like they focus a Smolensk. What do you think about its influence on the meta?a

As you said mainz has no smoke unlike smolensk. Discussion is over. 

[HaachamaShipping]

4 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Guns are pretty important.

Bad guns are probably the hardest thing to play around.

 

I agree Bayard is better though.

And thus Mainz is too strong?

[Miscommunication_dept]

1 minute ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

And thus Mainz is too strong?

As I say, a little too strong.

 

[HaachamaShipping]

Just now, gopher31 said:

As I say, a little too strong.

 

How so? What's next? Nerfs for Chapayev, Cleveland, Mogami, Bayard?

[Yedwy]

1 hour ago, Ocsimano18 said:

There are only a few of this ship out, but I feel that I'm facing a Smolensk whenever I meet one in a BB. It does not have smoke, but it's so far away that it cannot be hit, and you cannot push because you get spammed, and people are not focusing them like they focus a Smolensk. What do you think about its influence on the meta?

Not even remotely bro

[MadBadDave]

24 minutes ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

And why would the reload need a nerf?

Because it’s about 1-2 seconds too quick for its Tier.

[1MajorKoenig]

2 hours ago, Ocsimano18 said:

There are only a few of this ship out, but I feel that I'm facing a Smolensk whenever I meet one in a BB. It does not have smoke, but it's so far away that it cannot be hit, and you cannot push because you get spammed, and people are not focusing them like they focus a Smolensk. What do you think about its influence on the meta?

 

Is it Clickbait Thursday again?

[Miscommunication_dept]

17 minutes ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

How so? What's next? Nerfs for Chapayev, Cleveland, Mogami, Bayard?

Already explained this here and elsewhere.

Doesn’t  need a nerf.

 

Added for clarity:

I don’t believe it’s a tier 8 Smolensk.

 

[HaachamaShipping]

13 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

Because it’s about 1-2 seconds too quick for its Tier.

How is it too quick?

2 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Already explained this here and elsewhere.

Doesn’t  need a nerf.

 

Added for clarity:

I don’t believe it’s a tier 8 Smolensk.

 

If you state "it's a little too strong", then that implies the need of a nerf and begs the question of what to do about ships of similar if not higher power levels. So, either the ship isn't too strong or you can point out why you think this ship is too strong and what power level we are aiming at here.

[Miscommunication_dept]

1 minute ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

How is it too quick?

If you state "it's a little too strong", then that implies the need of a nerf and begs the question of what to do about ships of similar if not higher power levels. So, either the ship isn't too strong or you can point out why you think this ship is too strong and what power level we are aiming at here.

If it was strong enough that it needed to be nerfed I would call it overpowered.

For clarity I would say the same of Thunderer and Jean Bart.

 

Naturally we aim to balance ships with their contemporaries. If I find a ship to be a bit too strong against this measure I will say so. It is a subjective statement.

 

I have mentioned objective facts which have helped me come to this conclusion.

The HE pen which is deadly to USN battleships. The fire starting that is substantially better than other T8 cruisers.

The AP dpm that is huge even if it needs to be fired at weakened armoured ships.

 

I have enumerated these to you before, you disagree and that’s fine of course!

  
 

 

 

 

[Commander_Ericson]

So it pens a few more armour sections of bb's and has a slightly faster reload than say a cleveland. But the HE alpha is a good chunk lower, doesn't have clevelands radar or concealment and the base fire chance is less.

 

Ships seems pretty balanced in game to be honest.

 

It's definitely not a Smolnesk.

 

You want to see OP light cruisers just wait a month or two.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, gopher31 said:

If it was strong enough that it needed to be nerfed I would call it overpowered.

For clarity I would say the same of Thunderer and Jean Bart.

 

Naturally we aim to balance ships with their contemporaries. If I find a ship to be a bit too strong against this measure I will say so. It is a subjective statement.

 

I have mentioned objective facts which have helped me come to this conclusion.

The HE pen which is deadly to USN battleships. The fire starting that is substantially better than other T8 cruisers.

The AP dpm that is huge even if it needs to be fired at weakened armoured ships.

 

I have enumerated these to you before, you disagree and that’s fine of course!

Alright, if you think the Mainz is the next Thunderer, then sorry, but no. Thunderer is straight up bonkers, because the main armament is basically the best in the game that has ever left testing and the hull is not the greatest, but still has some insanely strong points. Thunderer very well might be OP.

 

Mainz meanwhile has its guns and a large hp pool. Maneuverability is eh, concealment is bad, armour is mediocre. If we compare it with Mogami, then Mogami has same pen, but with IFHE, has better dpm, has less fire chance, less range but way better concealment, actually better armour, better maneuverability and can stealth torp. Nitpicking single strong points that are unique to a ship and ignoring the whole rest, including all weaknesses, as well as how it fits into the overall game, is not really sensible. It's like arguing Hipper is OP, because Hipper and Eugen are the only cruisers that are "deadly" to German BBs and the AP is brutal. Yet guess what, both ships are at the bottom of T8 cruiser performance, because while they have pen and tankiness, their dpm is hardly overbearing. Mainz has the pen to hurt USN BBs, but it still is reliant on fires to meet the anti-US dpm of a Mogami, against heavier armoured BBs it doesn't pen more and against 32 mm, Cleveland outdpms it too. And all the other cruisers have other strong tools to influence a match. Mainz is balanced around having strong reliable damage output, take it away and the ship is absolute trash. And unlike Thunderer which can just crap on anything, the Mainz is hardly overbearing.

[Maris_Piper]

The Mainze is like a Brittle Hipper, with Nurnburg +3 guns, I can hit it and I'm pretty sh!t compared to many, Great Torps but try getting close and you are toast, It's as agile as I am and I've lost a leg, it's fairly slow I prefere  Atago  anyime to be honest, Maiz is a fun ship but OP not a chance, If you want OP wait and see if the Russian T8 premium Cruiser  PB comes out in it's present configuration it will Balance the  out of you