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Tanatoy

ST - German aircraft carriers renaming

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According to your feedback, we are renaming some of the German aircraft carriers.

 

Read more here.

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The name was an error? Thought it's just like Bismarck is named after Otto von Bismarck xD

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7 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

The name was an error? Thought it's just like Bismarck is named after Otto von Bismarck xD

The ship is just named Bismarck, not Otto Bismarck.

If the ship was named Otto Bismarck it would have been just as wrong as the names for the carriers were.

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2 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

The ship is just named Bismarck, not Otto Bismarck.

If the ship was named Otto Bismarck it would have been just as wrong as the names for the carriers were.

I see, I actually didn't paid attention to the full name, thought it was named Richthofen :D

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5 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

The ship is just named Bismarck, not Otto Bismarck.

If the ship was named Otto Bismarck it would have been just as wrong as the names for the carriers were.

 

There is little consistency in German Naval ship naming. Half of it is tradition and the other half is simply all over the place.

 

A lot of “old” Navy names are just the surname - which is partially due to the noble traditions - whereas some proposals during the Third Reich period (which is very proletarian culture heavy) are for full names such as “Götz von Berlichingen”, “Ulrich von Hutten” or “Peter Strasser”. However - nothing of that is really consistent either

 

So these names are actually quite fine and I think much better than just “Manfred Richthofen”.

 

+1 

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And what about the Rhein? Why doesn't this have a name that better matches the other CVs? How, for example, Otto Lilienthal or Oswald Boelcke? @Tanatoy

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Wow, that's.....that's amazing. You're listening to your player's feedback. I'm almost stunned. :Smile_honoring:

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11 hours ago, Tanatoy said:

According to your feedback, we are renaming some of the German aircraft carriers.

 

Read more here.

 

Change the Torpedo Speed.

Not gonna say much on the Remaining Stuff till I can actually see some Gameplay on it.

But I can already tell you before even seeing a Single Game Played with it. That 25 Knot Torpedoes with over 600m Arming Distance will be Completely useless and effectively mean that this Squadron could just as well not Exist on that CV because aside from maybe a Stationary Battleship you will never Hit anything with them because any Ship can just Turn out when he Sees them coming and will easily Outrun the Torpedoes.

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9 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

Change the Torpedo Speed.

Not gonna say much on the Remaining Stuff till I can actually see some Gameplay on it.

But I can already tell you before even seeing a Single Game Played with it. That 25 Knot Torpedoes with over 600m Arming Distance will be Completely useless and effectively mean that this Squadron could just as well not Exist on that CV because aside from maybe a Stationary Battleship you will never Hit anything with them because any Ship can just Turn out when he Sees them coming and will easily Outrun the Torpedoes.

Ye they could make it 40knots or 42knots so faster than USN torps but slower than IJN. Otherwise having a german cv in play will probs be like having 3 ships afk. Unless the enemy team has their own as well.

Judging from the current stats she has as well.

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@CptBarney and @Sunleader they could do something like the EU DDs; they could buff the speed making the torps faster, at least faster than originally planned by WG, as @CptBarney just said and then they could nerf the damage, making them "balanced". (between air quotes 'cause you know, they are CVs). 

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Just now, CptBarney said:

Ye they could make it 40knots or 42knots so faster than USN torps but slower than IJN. Otherwise having a german cv in play will probs be like having 3 ships afk. Unless the enemy team has their own as well.

Judging from the current stats she has as well.

 

Well. Given the Torpedoes Stats they dont really need to make them Faster than others.

They do some Damage at least.

But right now. With 25 Knots the Torps Travel about 65 Meters per Second. So the Arming Distance of over 700m on the T10 means that on a Perfectly Carried out Torpedo Drop. The Enemy Ship has more than 10 Seconds to React.

 

Just to Give a Comparisson.

German T10 has 25 Knots Torps with 730 Meters Arming Distance.  Thats 11.3 Seconds for the Enemy to React.

Japanese T10 has 50 Knots Torps with 670 Meters Arming Distance. Thats 5.1 Seconds for the Enemy to React.

US T10 has has 35 Knots Torps with 517 Meters Arming Distance. Thats 5.6 Seconds for the Enemy to React.

 

Notice the Problem ? :)

 

Now if they wanted to  make the German Torpedoes usable they have 2 Choices.

 

A. They Reduce the Arming Distance. If the Arming Distance was Reduced to 390 Meters. German T10 Torps would give a Reaction Time of 6 Seconds.

That would still be quite a bit Worse than other T10 CVs. And thanks to the Torpedoes being extremely Slow with 25 Knots it would also mean that German Torps still come with the Problem of being Useless when Dropped from Behind the Enemy Ship as the Ship will Outrun them. Meaning the German Torps would still be Extremely Weak. But then they would actually be Usable.

 

B. They Increase the Torpedo Speed. If the Speed was Buffed to 35 Knots you would still have 8 Seconds for the Enemy to React. Which is Still absolutely Terrible. But you would actually have a Chance of Hitting Battleships with the Torpedoes.

At the 40 Knots you Suggested. It would be 7 Seconds. Even that would still be Terrible by the way.....

 

 

If they wanted to make German Torpedoes Balanced compared to the other T10 CVs.  They would need to either

 

A. Reduce the Arming Distance to 260 Meters. Which would Equal a 4 Second Reaction for the Enemy. The Reason it has to be Lower than the other CVs to be Balanced. Is because 25 Knots is Slower than any Hostile Ship actually goes. Thus to Outbalance this you at least give them better Hitchance when Dropped from the Front and Forward Side.

 

B. Increase the Speed to 50 Knots. Like Japanese Torps. Which would still have a bit over 6 Seconds Reaction Time. But then is Outbalanced cause the German CV Drops more Torps and has a better Hitchance thanks to that.

 

 

 

 

 

What WG Does is their Thing tough.

I wont mix into it too much.

I am just Stating the Simple Fact. That right now. These Torpedoes are entirely Unusable.

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Also, i'd like to add that at the current speed (25 knots) Tier 7 ish and higher BBs (and some Tier 6 BBs with speed flag) can just outrun those torpedoes in a straight line. 

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I have to mention this here Graf Zeppelin torpedos are entirely different then current tech tree plan.

 

GZ torpedos

5330 damage - 35 knots speed - 470 meters arming distance

 

AvP Torpedos

6,600 damage - 25 knots - 604 meters arming distance

 

MvR Torpedos

8,200 damage - 25 knots - 784 meters arming distance

 

Graf Zeppelin didn't had problem with torpedo's in my opinion they were low damaging but very usable torpedos just like EU DDs but this line it looks like it has very unusable torpedos. I have to ask why fixing one thing( Dive bomber ellipse is fixed with the line)and breaking another thing(Torpedos looks useless)?

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1 hour ago, Ygtozkn1903 said:

I have to mention this here Graf Zeppelin torpedos are entirely different then current tech tree plan.

 

GZ torpedos

5330 damage - 35 knots speed - 470 meters arming distance

 

AvP Torpedos

6,600 damage - 25 knots - 604 meters arming distance

 

MvR Torpedos

8,200 damage - 25 knots - 784 meters arming distance

 

Graf Zeppelin didn't had problem with torpedo's in my opinion they were low damaging but very usable torpedos just like EU DDs but this line it looks like it has very unusable torpedos. I have to ask why fixing one thing( Dive bomber ellipse is fixed with the line)and breaking another thing(Torpedos looks useless)?

Probably because WG tries to diversify the line and make them stand out from the rest.

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Vor 4 Stunden, steveraptor sagte:

Probably because WG tries to diversify the line and make them stand out from the rest.

And they succeed - those torps really stand out from the rest. Obviously on the other end from what some players hoped for...

Maybe give them 10km range, so that in German CVs you do tactical long range torping. We have left the realms of the real long time ago, haven't we?

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Just now, Johnny_Moneto said:

And they succeed - those torps really stand out from the rest. Obviously on the other end from what some players hoped for...

Maybe give them 10km range, so that in German CVs you do tactical long range torping. We have left the realms of the real long time ago, haven't we?

That's even more useless than torps with 25 knots.

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Vor 7 Minuten, steveraptor sagte:

That's even more useless than torps with 25 knots.

Does one really need to put the smiley behind every non-serious sentence in the internet?

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20 hours ago, Ygtozkn1903 said:

I have to mention this here Graf Zeppelin torpedos are entirely different then current tech tree plan.

 

GZ torpedos

5330 damage - 35 knots speed - 470 meters arming distance

 

AvP Torpedos

6,600 damage - 25 knots - 604 meters arming distance

 

MvR Torpedos

8,200 damage - 25 knots - 784 meters arming distance

 

Graf Zeppelin didn't had problem with torpedo's in my opinion they were low damaging but very usable torpedos just like EU DDs but this line it looks like it has very unusable torpedos. I have to ask why fixing one thing( Dive bomber ellipse is fixed with the line)and breaking another thing(Torpedos looks useless)?

torps would need an arming distance of like 300meters just to be somewhat useful, atm it allows players almost 12secs for reaction times which is mental, especially when get a german cv and they get something like haku or enterprise.

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On 4/15/2020 at 9:46 PM, Sunleader said:

But I can already tell you before even seeing a Single Game Played with it. That 25 Knot Torpedoes with over 600m Arming Distance will be Completely useless and effectively mean that this Squadron could just as well not Exist on that CV because aside from maybe a Stationary Battleship you will never Hit anything with them because any Ship can just Turn out when he Sees them coming and will easily Outrun the Torpedoes.

30 knots on the Tier X would be fine. CVs shouldn't be looking to torpedo DDs and CLs any way, and 30 kts and decent range would give BB players a choice between dodging the torps (and sailing in a straight line) and manouevring (and taking the torps rather than a citadel). I know the idea of providing utility to other players is not what most CV players are here for and that there will be a lot of huffing and "no reason to play this when there's Midway / Your Mum" etc but they can afford to experiment. People are going to play these because they're German, not because they're good, so do something different.

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34 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

30 knots on the Tier X would be fine. CVs shouldn't be looking to torpedo DDs and CLs any way, and 30 kts and decent range would give BB players a choice between dodging the torps (and sailing in a straight line) and manouevring (and taking the torps rather than a citadel). I know the idea of providing utility to other players is not what most CV players are here for and that there will be a lot of huffing and "no reason to play this when there's Midway / Your Mum" etc but they can afford to experiment. People are going to play these because they're German, not because they're good, so do something different.

 

It doesnt matter if you Provide Utility to others.

The Problem is the Balancing compared to other CVs.

 

If all CVs had such Torps I would not care at all.

Thing is. Others dont. And if you have a German CV in your Team and the Enemy has a US one. Then you will not exactly the Enemy to Utility either. Because the Enemy CV doesnt care. But your CV cant do anything.

 

Its nice that you want to have German CVs more Balanced and offering more Counterplay. But that will just end in a Situation where if your Team has the German CV you just lose by Default because your CV cant do anything and the Enemy CV can.

 

 

So unless you want to Nerf all CVs in the Game that way. This is not going to Fly.

And as this wont happen. German CVs will need to be Buffed up to the Level where they can Compete with the other Nations CVs.

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1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

Its nice that you want to have German CVs more Balanced and offering more Counterplay. But that will just end in a Situation where if your Team has the German CV you just lose by Default because your CV cant do anything and the Enemy CV can.

 

 

So unless you want to Nerf all CVs in the Game that way. This is not going to Fly.

And as this wont happen. German CVs will need to be Buffed up to the Level where they can Compete with the other Nations CVs

Well, maybe that's the problem with CVs.  Every other ship class gets by just fine with these variations in playstyle, and it's not an instant lose because someone brought a Worcester rather than a Des Moines, but maybe CV game play is just so one dimensional it's not possible to make them interesting like that. Which is a problem in terms of appeal....  It might be enough to produce a line of standard CVs purely for fans of German ships but these aren't going to do well overall if they're just "more CVs". 

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3 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

Well, maybe that's the problem with CVs.  Every other ship class gets by just fine with these variations in playstyle, and it's not an instant lose because someone brought a Worcester rather than a Des Moines, but maybe CV game play is just so one dimensional it's not possible to make them interesting like that. Which is a problem in terms of appeal....  It might be enough to produce a line of standard CVs purely for fans of German ships but these aren't going to do well overall if they're just "more CVs". 

unlike the german cvs both the des moines and worcester are able to deal damage with all of their weapons.
the german torpedoes have a speed of 25 knots with an arming distance of over 700 meters, meaning you will not be able to hit any target you aim at, as even bbs can outrun the torpedoes

their bombers might be ballanced, but they seem to have too low damage, and too low health, compared to other cvs

the rockets are the only armament that seems fine, if the ap rockets are actually useful.

they are strickly worse, it seems, but we will see

so not the same

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