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SpaidenGer

Azuma vs Alaska after 0.9.2

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So I wanna get one of those to ships but I am not sure which one to get. I heard that Alaska is way better then the azuma due to Alaskas radar and better armor but Azumas mid section was changed from 25 to 27mm. Did the 27mm mid section improve Azumas tankiness? Or will you get citadelled from every angle like before if you try to play bow on? 

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Buy the Alaska. You’re right that the Azuma has had plating improvements but it’s citadel remains  so exposed.

Alaska is very hard to citadel.

Azuma is more accurate and has better HE but Alaska is an amazing cruiser killer with superb AP.

 

It really is no contest between these ships.

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Alaska all the way. If you really want IJN CB, go with Yoshino and even then keep in mind her fragility

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Just looking at Wows-numbers and I'm surprised tha these ships are so close in stats.

 

Even more surprised to see the Kronstadt doing much better than them.

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If you can only get one, I do believe the answer is Alaska. I actually LIKE the Azuma, but she's an incredibly limited ship.

 

She can tank "some" BB fire now, but she's still huge, squishy, and slow to turn around. If you're in an open-water position where you're within your concealment range of enemy BB's, they start focusing you, it really sucks. You can't face tank them for long, if you do your huge, slow U turn in plain sight they'll delete you. What I try to do is reverse to concealment and hope my team can offer some fire support for the half minute I need -- and I'm not sure this is the best course of action.

 

Before buying her I'd ask myself, do I have a black belt in cruiser positioning? You'll need it to do anything but HE spam from max range (which even with those accurate guns is sub-optimal) while avoiding getting to dangerous positions.

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Alaska is basically a tier 9.5 ship, can do as well top tier as she can mid tier. I hope we can get some more supercruisers, maybe a tier 10 coal alsaka like USS Guam or hawaii.

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Alaska.

 

Azuma was never "terrible", but it always was overshadowed by big sis Yoshino in everything except credit making potential and by same tier Alaska for ease of play and match influence. 27 mm midship plating doesn't change that. 27 mm plating means less fullpens from 38 cm guns. Nothing else. In terms of eating citadels, 27 mm does virtually nothing, just as the 30 mm plating on Yoshino does nothing. Because if one actually looks at the armour profile of these ships, it should be obvious that any shell that hits the 27/30 mm section of the ship either has a steep enough angle to not ricochet or if it overmatches it will ricochet off the citadel belt behind the outer plating and never result in a citadel. Shots through bow or stern will never even touch the 27/30 mm section and are the main source of citadels on any well-played Azuma/Yoshino. For that reason, don't play the sip bow-on. You are not a Stalingrad, you are not a BB. Bow-on in cruisers against BBs is 90% of the time pure suicide. Try to let them hit the angled side and your ship will be fine most of the time.

15 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Alaska is basically a tier 9.5 ship, can do as well top tier as she can mid tier. I hope we can get some more supercruisers, maybe a tier 10 coal alsaka like USS Guam or hawaii.

Puerto Rico exists and if we ever get a T10 Alaska, it'd be PR made available through other means than Christmas 2019 grind.

28 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Just looking at Wows-numbers and I'm surprised tha these ships are so close in stats.

 

Even more surprised to see the Kronstadt doing much better than them.

Alaska is more played by everyone, Azuma is more played by tryhards. Let's be real, Alaska (+B variant) has almost 5 times the amount of battles played, seeing an Azuma in battle, most often it's someone who actually knows their ship and does pretty ok, because most potatoes get absolutely demolished and then go back to other ships.

 

Kronshtadt was played a lot when it came out and no other supercruiser existed except the Graf Spee. Many had no idea how to deal with it and just called it OP. Admittedly, it did get its fire duration nerfed since earliest times, but still...

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1 minute ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

Puerto Rico exists and if we ever get a T10 Alaska, it'd be PR made available through other means than Christmas 2019 grind.

No a coal ship type, you can make hawaii into an interesting ship and giver her a unique radar. And make her somewhat better than alaska or stick her at tier 9.

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3 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

No a coal ship type, you can make hawaii into an interesting ship and giver her a unique radar. And make her somewhat better than alaska or stick her at tier 9.

Likely won't happen, so...

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After that grind, Wargaming should never release the Puerto Rico by any other means.

 

Alaska is far better tier for tier anyway.

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46 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Even more surprised to see the Kronstadt doing much better than them.

Surprised ? Kronstadt is russian  ... :Smile_trollface:

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I'd prefer Yoshino over Azuma. It has torps with up to 20km range

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38 minutes ago, DirtyHeddy said:

I'd prefer Yoshino over Azuma. It has torps with up to 20km range

 

Statistics show that Azuma is stronger tier-wise than Yoshino.

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27 minutes ago, Vbeest said:

 

Statistics show that Azuma is stronger tier-wise than Yoshino.

Trust no statistics that wasn't manipulated by yourself. :Smile_veryhappy: - especially when they are from WG

 

Maybe Azuma has a few advantages, but in close quarters a spread of torpedoes is an irresistable asset. And even at long range : They have - if you choose - 20km range. I am surprised every time how often You hit some unsuspecting ship.

Maybe it does not affect statistics. But is makes fun

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Azuma is worse than Yoshino, but on average plays lower tier opposition. :cap_hmm:  I've played my Azuma enough that I'd tentatively declare that she's absolutely not a weak ship at Tier IX.

 

She's just incredibly limited in play style, requires a strong understanding of cruiser positioning, and to then play conservatively compared to the constraints of most other cruisers.

 

The stronger armour and torps of Yoshino for sure makes her more desirable, if I had to pick one of the two. But she doesn't get to insta-delete Tier VII cruisers with AP salvos.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, jss78 said:

Azuma is worse than Yoshino, but on average plays lower tier opposition. :cap_hmm:  I've played my Azuma enough that I'd tentatively declare that she's absolutely not a weak ship at Tier IX.

 

She's just incredibly limited in play style, requires a strong understanding of cruiser positioning, and to then play conservatively compared to the constraints of most other cruisers.

 

The stronger armour and torps of Yoshino for sure makes her more desirable, if I had to pick one of the two. But she doesn't get to insta-delete Tier VII cruisers with AP salvos.

 

 

 

I have both Azuma and Yoshino, and I agree that the latter feels more enjoyable. Mostly because of faster reload. However, in the games with Azuma at top tier (even more so when the teams are composed mostly from tiers 8 and 7) it can be quite a force.

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46 minutes ago, DirtyHeddy said:

Trust no statistics that wasn't manipulated by yourself. :Smile_veryhappy: - especially when they are from WG

 

Maybe Azuma has a few advantages, but in close quarters a spread of torpedoes is an irresistable asset. And even at long range : They have - if you choose - 20km range. I am surprised every time how often You hit some unsuspecting ship.

Maybe it does not affect statistics. But is makes fun


There is a reason you are surprised when you hit a torp. It just doesn’t happen often.

Unless you use the long range torps, you are never in range to use them. Those long range torps are Also easy to dodge.

 

Yoshino spends most of it’s time behind the battleships so torps are more of a danger to your team than your enemies.

If it has armour like Kronstadt or Alaska, you would be able to get in close every now and then but the Yoshino Citadel is hexagonal and can be penned by any battleship from almost any angle.

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, gopher31 said:


There is a reason you are surprised when you hit a torp. It just doesn’t happen often.

Unless you use the long range torps, you are never in range to use them. Those long range torps are Also easy to dodge.

 

Yoshino spends most of it’s time behind the battleships so torps are more of a danger to your team than your enemies.

If it has armour like Kronstadt or Alaska, you would be able to get in close every now and then but the Yoshino Citadel is hexagonal and can be penned by any battleship from almost any angle.

 

 

 

The torps either hit absolute idiots, or you throw them at areas where you expect people to camp and pass without expecting the torps, so they get surprised and fail to react. Obviously, 20 km torps require you to watch out to not hit your team, but overall, they get surprisingly decent results.

 

And frankly, Yoshino/Azuma fragility is overblown. The main point with Azuma is, you don't want to go in and brawl, because without torps, there is not much advantage to getting close to a BB most of the time. Other than that, no, the citadel is not hexagonal, it's octogonal and unlike Yamato, the "cheeks" are jokingly small and not really an issue. If you ha a perfectly flat cutoff, you'd still never be able to angle and not potentially eat citadels. However, neither is the Kronshtadt. Kronshtadt has an overmatchable citadel deck underneath the A and X turret, so if you try to tank bow-on, you still can get absolutely wrecked by people who know where to aim. If you get shot in the angled side, you are fine. Same with Yoshino. If you manage to bait the shots on your angled citadel belt, you'll be fine, maybe a stray shot hits the narrow forward citadel bulkhead and gets a cit, but you got enough hp to survive that. Yoshino/Azuma are the most fragile supercruisers, but they still can be tanky and I had enough people look down on the ship, just to find themselves get outbrawled by something they surprisingly failed to citadel, when everyone says these ships are free citadels.

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3 minutes ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

The torps either hit absolute idiots, or you throw them at areas where you expect people to camp and pass without expecting the torps, so they get surprised and fail to react. Obviously, 20 km torps require you to watch out to not hit your team, but overall, they get surprisingly decent results.

 

And frankly, Yoshino/Azuma fragility is overblown. The main point with Azuma is, you don't want to go in and brawl, because without torps, there is not much advantage to getting close to a BB most of the time. Other than that, no, the citadel is not hexagonal, it's octogonal and unlike Yamato, the "cheeks" are jokingly small and not really an issue. If you ha a perfectly flat cutoff, you'd still never be able to angle and not potentially eat citadels. However, neither is the Kronshtadt. Kronshtadt has an overmatchable citadel deck underneath the A and X turret, so if you try to tank bow-on, you still can get absolutely wrecked by people who know where to aim. If you get shot in the angled side, you are fine. Same with Yoshino. If you manage to bait the shots on your angled citadel belt, you'll be fine, maybe a stray shot hits the narrow forward citadel bulkhead and gets a cit, but you got enough hp to survive that. Yoshino/Azuma are the most fragile supercruisers, but they still can be tanky and I had enough people look down on the ship, just to find themselves get outbrawled by something they surprisingly failed to citadel, when everyone says these ships are free citadels.

I have both, I’ll try harder!

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13 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

I have both, I’ll try harder!

Frankly, tread the ship like an oversized Zao or Henri. Try to get shot in angled side, never perfectly in the stern or bow. The lower half of your sides counts as torpedo protection, so all enemies get when hitting their, if they bounce off the belt is a torp protection hit ribbon. I cannot claim that I have ever been devastated in the Yoshino, except when I really deserved it. I can claim though, that learning how to best use the armour on the Yoshino has helped me to properly use armour on other cruisers, because pretty much no cruiser can just bow tank all the BBs it faces, even a Stalingrad and Moskva are better off trying to not get hit on the very bow, given the upper bow is still only 25 mm and I have already experienced what lazy NC shells even at mid-range can do when they fly right over the 50 mm lower bow. 

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Vor 1 Stunde, Bunny_Lover_Kallen sagte:

The torps either hit absolute idiots, or you throw them at areas where you expect people to camp and pass without expecting the torps, so they get surprised and fail to react. Obviously, 20 km torps require you to watch out to not hit your team, but overall, they get surprisingly decent results.

 

And frankly, Yoshino/Azuma fragility is overblown. The main point with Azuma is, you don't want to go in and brawl, because without torps, there is not much advantage to getting close to a BB most of the time. Other than that, no, the citadel is not hexagonal, it's octogonal and unlike Yamato, the "cheeks" are jokingly small and not really an issue. If you ha a perfectly flat cutoff, you'd still never be able to angle and not potentially eat citadels. However, neither is the Kronshtadt. Kronshtadt has an overmatchable citadel deck underneath the A and X turret, so if you try to tank bow-on, you still can get absolutely wrecked by people who know where to aim. If you get shot in the angled side, you are fine. Same with Yoshino. If you manage to bait the shots on your angled citadel belt, you'll be fine, maybe a stray shot hits the narrow forward citadel bulkhead and gets a cit, but you got enough hp to survive that. Yoshino/Azuma are the most fragile supercruisers, but they still can be tanky and I had enough people look down on the ship, just to find themselves get outbrawled by something they surprisingly failed to citadel, when everyone says these ships are free citadels.

So you won`t get citadelled by every single ship if you angle correctly? 

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4 hours ago, gopher31 said:

There is a reason you are surprised when you hit a torp. It just doesn’t happen often.

True. I have to admit that. But nevertheless it happens.

4 hours ago, gopher31 said:

Unless you use the long range torps, you are never in range to use them. Those long range torps are Also easy to dodge.

True, if You see the come.

4 hours ago, gopher31 said:

Yoshino spends most of it’s time behind the battleships

I can only recommend to play her from the second line. Results will be mixed but not bad at all.

4 hours ago, gopher31 said:

so torps are more of a danger to your team than your enemies.

You can fire from the second line with precaution. If in close contact to Your team it will work. If not you may get pink ...

 

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2 hours ago, SpaidenGer said:

So you won`t get citadelled by every single ship if you angle correctly? 

I mean, against BBs, you can always be citadelled, like the vast majority of cruisers in the game. But you can take steps to mitigate that.

Spoiler

shot-20_03.10_01_36.55-0797.thumb.jpg.089b5cd9e18fe069cba80b1bc9a89a73.jpg

shot-20_03.10_01_37.01-0201.thumb.jpg.96efee3a1d3f561600b454c559c01be0.jpg

As can be seen in the first image, if you get shot at such an angle, the highlighted red section is basically angled at a level where stuff bounces off the citadel. Shells that fly into the upper area will never citadel, because of the thick citadel roof with sloped edges, shells that will citadel are those that hit the dark red area. Which will seem pretty big, until you realise how much nose is in the way and most people thus fail to correctly aim for this on a properly angled Yoshino. If you bait them to shoot side while you manage to react and steepen the angle, that is best, but even most random shots on your nose will at most result in one citadel, which hurts, but unlike most regular cruisers, Yoshino will survive a citadel or two, thanks to hp pool.

 

As to non-BBs, Azuma and Yoshino can obviously tank and are actually harder to citpen than the Stalingrad, due to 178 mm belt + 25 mm torpedo protection requiring an effective 203 mm of pen, while Stalingrad has 180 mm citadel belt with nothing ontop. At mid-range, if you aren't broadsiding, most heavy cruisers will not go through that, even if you aren't at autobounce angle, while making that mistake infront of a Yoshino obviously can get punished at any range.

 

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