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OVanBruce

Battleships' hard counter

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[FAM]
Alpha Tester
2,435 posts
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So which is it right now? Because realistically speaking, and this tells a lot about the sad situation the game is in, ts only counter are only other BBs.

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Sailing Hamster
1,545 posts
3,274 battles

Me in IJN CV raping poor BB players, me in USA CAs putting your [edited]on fire whole day then doing citadels with AP.

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[OILUP]
Beta Tester
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Me in IJN CV raping poor BB players, me in USA CAs putting your [edited]on fire whole day then doing citadels with AP.

 

Not sure if serious.

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[EIRE]
[EIRE]
Beta Tester
326 posts
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My win rate for DDs has improved a lot since everyone started playing BBs, so destroyers are a great counter to them.

 

People are only playing BBs as they are the new toys (many dislike CVs as their gameplay is a little different).

Edited by Shagulon

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Sailing Hamster
1,545 posts
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Well, I can dance at 15km with CA and hit kinda easy slow US BBs and you can citadel IJN ones except Yamato.

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Alpha Tester
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Pretty much what Vulgarny said, but that's not so "hard counter" as it's supposed to be. IJN CVs now have the old USN (or tiny bit more) strike power, but the BBs now turn faster and have better AA + USN BBs turn like DDs and have more then cruisers (+their active skill) AA and they all got better anti-torp protection, so the they should make some more tweaks. That turning is extreme and they will probably nerf it a bit + AP bombs (which are planned according to RU devs on the stream yesterday) + some tweaks to IJN torps should do it.

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Sailing Hamster
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Problem is not lack of power of IJN CV but its really really tiresome now to play CV. Micromanaging is really exhausting now.

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[FAM]
Alpha Tester
2,435 posts
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Well, I can dance at 15km with CA and hit kinda easy slow US BBs and you can citadel IJN ones except Yamato.

 

Until it hits you with one or 2 shells wirh their increased accuracy and blow you up.

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Beta Tester
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So which is it right now? Because realistically speaking, and this tells a lot about the sad situation the game is in, ts only counter are only other BBs.

 

Well so far it looks like its DD. Strange but true. I haven't been able to spot DD most times in a BB till they are right on top of me and firing torps and smoking. A pair of DD working together to smoke and torp launch are a nightmare for a BB Captain or even a group of BB skippers. Cruisers atm are in a strange place thanks to the HE buff. They get toasted fast by DD and if they cant repair go pop rather quickly. But up against a BB, if you dont show your broadside you can HE them down fast.

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Alpha Tester
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Problem is not lack of power of IJN CV but its really really tiresome now to play CV. Micromanaging is really exhausting now.

 

That was the point of the changes. Easy clicking = USN and low reward. Lots of micromanaging = IJN and better rewards with influencing the battle lot more. It was pretty obvious we can't have universal CVs if there is going to be more then one line ingame.

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Beta Tester
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Pretty much what Vulgarny said, but that's not so "hard counter" as it's supposed to be. IJN CVs now have the old USN (or tiny bit more) strike power, but the BBs now turn faster and have better AA + USN BBs turn like DDs and have more then cruisers (+their active skill) AA and they all got better anti-torp protection, so the they should make some more tweaks. That turning is extreme and they will probably nerf it a bit + AP bombs (which are planned according to RU devs on the stream yesterday) + some tweaks to IJN torps should do it.

 

Excuse me but I'm not going to hold my breath considering that every time the devs do some 'tweaks' the balance because even more surreal.
Edited by WhiskeyWolf

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Beta Tester
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That was the point of the changes. Easy clicking = USN and low reward. Lots of micromanaging = IJN and better rewards with influencing the battle lot more. It was pretty obvious we can't have universal CVs if there is going to be more then one line ingame.

 

 

Your also forgetting the RN had carriers, and WG loves to stick the British stuff right in the middle ground. So expect RN carriers to have the 2/2 loadouts for fighters and bomber/torpedo.

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Alpha Tester
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Excuse me but I'm not going to hold my breath considering that every time the devs do some 'tweaks' the balance because even more surreal.

 

Well accept the fact that BBs now are the easiest noob-frinedly ("Siemka E-100") class to play for now and you will get less frustrated. 

 

Your also forgetting the RN had carriers, and WG loves to stick the British stuff right in the middle ground. So expect RN carriers to have the 2/2 loadouts for fighters and bomber/torpedo.

Come on this is getting old. Just don't wish some OP ships (because they did that and that during the war and RN was the best and you know etc) and you will realise that's far from the reality. Warspite is still one of the best ships on tier 6 atm and the good players can make it even look OP. That's why they are not sure of they are going to sell it after CBT or it will be reward ship.

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[FAM]
Alpha Tester
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Edwards you are talking as if you needed 2 or more ships from other classes to take out a BB. The game is (supposedly) being designed around counters and such. A hard counter means that a hard counter class of another should have an advantage, sometimes overwhelming, against its prey on a 1 vs 1 situation:

 

- A cruiser catches a DD and the later is toast.

- An USN DD fights a IJN DD and finishes it in 2 or 3 salvoes.

- A cruiser gets near a CVs planes and they die like flies and are hardly effective while panicked.

 

Does this happen with BBs?

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Beta Tester
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Edwards you are talking as if you needed 2 or more ships from other classes to take out a BB. The game is (supposedly) being designed around counters and such. A hard counter means that a hard counter class of another should have an advantage, sometimes overwhelming, against its prey on a 1 vs 1 situation:

 

- A cruiser catches a DD and the later is toast.

- An USN DD fights a IJN DD and finishes it in 2 or 3 salvoes.

- A cruiser gets near a CVs planes and they die like flies and are hardly effective while panicked.

 

Does this happen with BBs?

 

Thats the point DD do have the advantage vs a BB in a 1v1 imo. Unless the BB has its guns trained in the DD's direction, a DD can close in and fire his spread off and smoke to hide. The thing atm is that many DD players are not aggressive enough and are not getting in to ranges where the torps are most effective, even with the rudder changes (3-4km). They are firing off the smoke and then trying to "snipe" at max torp range. Thats no longer effective due to rudder changes, and early smoke just gives the game away that there is a DD in that area.

 

I mentioned two DD because thats all it takes to hold up an entire flank with several BB skippers in it.

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Beta Tester
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Torps are still pretty devasting, got 1 shot by air launched torp in Wyoming. No time to evade. DDs are good nevertheless, never gonna hit one in BB unless the DD plays very poorly.

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[OILUP]
Beta Tester
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The thing atm is that many DD players are not aggressive enough and are not getting in to ranges where the torps are most effective, even with the rudder changes (3-4km).

 

What effective ranges? I think you mean 2km because everything above that can be countered by quickly turning towards the torps.

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[FAM]
Alpha Tester
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Oh yeah right, how could I forget closing in to a BB while its secondary guns rip me apart, I risk getting one shotted by a not so lucky salvo and fire my torpedoes at almost point blank just to see him drift in front of me better than a cruiser and evades all my torps except one or two.

 

Did I mention that by the time I'm retiring I'm already dead thanks to his secondaries?

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Alpha Tester
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Edwards you are talking as if you needed 2 or more ships from other classes to take out a BB.

 

He plays at tier 6, where Minekaze is stronk. I doubt anyone who plays tier 9 and 10 can say "DDs counter BBs" with a straight face.
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Beta Tester
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All classes can do "something" against battleships if the battleship player is either

 

  • Low health
  • Inattentive
  • Firing at someone else
  • Horrible

 

But against a good battleship player who pays attention to the map and can look a minimum of 30 seconds into future, there is no counter except for other battleships without braindead players.

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Beta Tester
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He plays at tier 6, where Minekaze is stronk. I doubt anyone who plays tier 9 and 10 can say "DDs counter BBs" with a straight face.

 

5/6/7 atm. Nagato is my highest tier ship since I have only played for around three weeks and needed a selection of ships for each class. I am often matched with tier 9&10 when I take my Nagato out so I do have actual experience in combating them. And we are talking BB's across all tiers, not just tier 9 and 10. If tier 9 and 10 are an issue thats a seperate point entirely and down to individual ships and not the class.

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[ST-EU]
Supertester
2,062 posts
3,667 battles

+1 to the dangerousness of BB secondaries. The only time I can get really close without dying on approach, is by hiding behind an island. 

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