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Keltic

Dive Bombers Better Than You Think

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[BEIC]
Beta Tester
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10,015 battles

There has been a lot of talk, even by me, about how DB's are still not that great.

 

Well I may have changed my mind.  I have only been playing US DB's but I have noticed that it takes quite a lot to send them into panic mode so their hit accuracy is better than before.  When they do hit, I am getting a consistent 2 / 4k of damage.  I would also say about 80% of my hits are causing a fire.

 

I have attached my last battle report when I managed a 1 shot kill, with a DB, on an almost full health Atlanta.

 

shot-15.05.15_15.13.33-0384.jpg

Edited by Keltic

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Alpha Tester
1,025 posts

no one used them befor .. and now they need to learn how they work... but if they learnt it .. they will see :great:

 

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[BEIC]
Beta Tester
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What carrier do u have?

 

Do you man aim?

I have a Ranger and an Independence.

 

I use auto and manual depending on the situation.  The one hit kill was on auto but I did manually adjust the angle so the aim circle covered the ship and not at an angle.

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Alpha Tester
650 posts
1,133 battles

There has been a lot of talk, even by me, about how DB's are still not that great.

 

Well I may have changed my mind.  I have only been playing US DB's but I have noticed that it takes quite a lot to send them into panic mode so their hit accuracy is better than before.  When they do hit, I am getting a consistent 2 / 4k of damage.  I would also say about 80% of my hits are causing a fire.

 

I have attached my last battle report when I managed a 1 shot kill, with a DB, on an almost full health Atlanta.

 

shot-15.05.15_15.13.33-0384.jpg

 

It's still useless compared to TB when you want to deal great damages.

Its only use is when reseting or rinishing of DDs and very low HP ennemies.

 

They clearly need a way to make manual aim efficient.

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Alpha Tester
2,271 posts
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Of course they are better now, but they are still "useless" as damage dealers compared to the TBs, because those 2-4K avarage are <1 torp hit.

And such oneshots and huge damages are very rare  nothing more then pure luck.

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[-5D4-]
[-5D4-]
Beta Tester
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I still don't regret selling my Ranger - Torpedo bombers are superior in comparison and even they are struggling due to the new quick turning rates ships have in 3.1.

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Beta Tester
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Hmm.

 

I'm using my Hiryuu on its kamikaze loadout, so I have an equal number of dive and torpedo bombers to compare. Right now I let the torpedo bombers go first against enemy carriers so hopefully the damage control party is wasted on flooding and then send in the dive bombers, since it makes the carrier unusable and has consistently outdamaged flooding against carriers so far. I've had several games with 25k+ damage through fires only. There is a very big difference how much %/s fires do in damage depending on the ship in question.

 

I agree that broadly speaking torpedo bombers are still much more useful than dive bombers, especially against battleships. Still, it's possible to get around 40-50k damage using 3x4 dive bombers with manual drops and good fires, which does not compare that badly to torpedo bombers.

 

In a roundabout way this has strengthened torpedo bombers since players are now more likely to blow their AA skill or the damage control party on dive bomber attacks.

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[PRAVD]
Community Contributor
1,828 posts
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That's just RNG.

 

I had a game where I missed all my dive bomber hits until 15 minutes into the game. Here's the replay if you want to watch it: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/89115692/wows/HiryuuMissingDiveBombers21kexp.wowsreplay

 

The end game screen says I got 3 dive bomber hits. I was using dive bombers ever since the start  of the match whenever they were available. In the same time I still managed to get 24 torpedo hits. So how exactly are they better than I think?

Edited by Aerroon

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[KOOKS]
Modder, Beta Tester
1,340 posts
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Though, is it just me or does it seem that damage to a BB done with TPs are easily repaired but damage done with DBs just repairs a bit, like the difference getting hit by HE and AP shells. The former damage gets repaired in heaps, while the latter just a trickle.

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Beta Tester
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That's just RNG.

 

I had a game where I missed all my dive bomber hits until 15 minutes into the game. Here's the replay if you want to watch it: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/89115692/wows/HiryuuMissingDiveBombers21kexp.wowsreplay

 

The end game screen says I got 3 dive bomber hits. I was using dive bombers ever since the start  of the match whenever they were available. In the same time I still managed to get 24 torpedo hits. So how exactly are they better than I think?

 

The manual drop dispersion is tiny and narrower than many cruisers. It's a little tricky giving them the right lead, but I can really recommend it.

 

Also, dive bombers have a tendency to hit at the edge of the dispersion oval. This means that automatic drops tend to miss quite often, but manual drops hit even if most of the oval is next to the ship and not above it.

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[PRAVD]
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The manual drop dispersion is tiny and narrower than many cruisers. It's a little tricky giving them the right lead, but I can really recommend it.

 

Also, dive bombers have a tendency to hit at the edge of the dispersion oval. This means that automatic drops tend to miss quite often, but manual drops hit even if most of the oval is next to the ship and not above it.

 

Good luck actually hitting dive bombers with manual drops. The circle is so tiny and half the time the ships just blend in with the water. Considering the kind of lead you have to give and ANY pressing of A or D from the ship will completely negate your drop I do not see why you would ever want to manually drop with dive bombers.

 

EDIT: I guess on all these noobs sailing in 21 kts BBs it could actually work since they're essentially AFK anyway.

Edited by Aerroon

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Beta Tester
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Good luck actually hitting dive bombers with manual drops. The circle is so tiny and half the time the ships just blend in with the water. Considering the kind of lead you have to give and ANY pressing of A or D from the ship will completely negate your drop I do not see why you would ever want to manually drop with dive bombers.

 

Sure, it's not possible if the enemy is actively dodging you. You have to go for people who aren't looking at the minimap or are generally kind of brain-damaged, but that's what you do in a carrier anyway.

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Alpha Tester
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I went a round with Lexi bombers and I will tell this. Dive Bombers still are worthless damage dealers. I am yet to to master the manual drop of theirs, but considering their performance up to this point, this doesn't change anything. I tried and maybe I am super weak, but even though I think the manual was perfect (the ring was on the ship in the moment of drop from bow) I only was hitting 1-3 bombs.

DB do not appeal to me in any way, as main damage dealers they are worthless.

 

@Aerroon

You really must calm down on chat during games. You ramble and ramble, about things I know, but I had to check... jeeeeeez and here you also ramble a bit. Come on mate.

 

Edit.
@Sharana
Can you tell me what you think about manual DB drop? I find it a still unreliable, but maybe I am doing something wrong and there is some way to make 4-6 hit drops.

 

Edited by Ishiro32
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[PRAVD]
Community Contributor
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I went a round with Lexi bombers and I will tell this. Dive Bombers still are worthless damage dealers. I am yet to to master the manual drop of theirs, but considering their performance up to this point, this doesn't change anything. I tried and maybe I am super weak, but even though I think the manual was perfect (the ring was on the ship in the moment of drop from bow) I only was hitting 1-3 bombs.

DB do not appeal to me in any way, as main damage dealers they are worthless.

 

@Aerroon

You really must calm down on chat during games. You ramble and ramble, about things I know, but I had to check... jeeeeeez and here you also ramble a bit. Come on mate.

 

Edit.

@Sharana

Can you tell me what you think about manual DB drop? I find it a still unreliable, but maybe I am doing something wrong and there is some way to make 4-6 hit drops.

 

 

 

Maybe if WG makes the game more engaging, but they seem to be doing the opposite. They're removing more and more skill involved in doing stuff. The time I don't talk in chat during games is where I'm literally on the forums, watching a movie or playing another game at the same time because enough just isn't happening.
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[CPC]
Beta Tester
149 posts
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Maybe if WG makes the game more engaging, but they seem to be doing the opposite. They're removing more and more skill involved in doing stuff. The time I don't talk in chat during games is where I'm literally on the forums, watching a movie or playing another game at the same time because enough just isn't happening.

 

Carriers in a nutshell.
Edited by Krogort

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Beta Tester
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Good luck actually hitting dive bombers with manual drops. The circle is so tiny and half the time the ships just blend in with the water. Considering the kind of lead you have to give and ANY pressing of A or D from the ship will completely negate your drop I do not see why you would ever want to manually drop with dive bombers.

 

EDIT: I guess on all these noobs sailing in 21 kts BBs it could actually work since they're essentially AFK anyway.

 

The fact that turning negates the drop is the biggest issue. You can't curve the bomb at all, while with torps you can angle it. The outer white circle is also way too far away for proper drops on defending targets,  I also actually get more fires with automatic drops compared to manual even if the manual drop is as perfect as can be.

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Alpha Tester
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@Sharana

Can you tell me what you think about manual DB drop? I find it a still unreliable, but maybe I am doing something wrong and there is some way to make 4-6 hit drops.

 

It's definetly worth it if you manage to pull it off. If it's BB that's not entering circulation (because they evade only TBs most of the time) go for it. Click the auto attack, but shotrly before they begin the attack change to manual (as they are on the right approach already, just select place in front/behind the ship). If the target is not BB/stucked cruiser or DD I use the manual attack, as you will at least score some hits.

 

Also had few games in Essex today (strike setup) and was pretty impressed with the DBs. When using auto against BBs I was scoring between 10 and 18K for the 3 DB squadrons + fires. Far away from torps, but the AP bombs will fix it.

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Alpha Tester
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Definitly RNG. Also, Atlanta? it's not like cruisers are your primary target unless there is nothing else to attack. Let me show you what awaits one if he attacks BB's only:

 

U6Pv46E.jpg

 

This is a battle with my Essex. I posted the screenshot allready in another thread. DB's are weak vs battleships and on this tier you usually have cruisers who spam their 'skill' as soon as they see your planes.

TB's were and still are far superior to DB's. I tried out the assault deck instead and look at this:

 

 D3AgqHr.jpg

 

12 direct torpedo hits for 77k, 3 bombs for a whooping 1.5k. As long as we don't have AP bombs for DB's they are ergo still not usefull. I use my 3 squadrons with 21 as support just like pre-patch to set BB's on fire and then finish them off with torpedo/flooding damage from 12 TB planes.

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Alpha Tester
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It's definetly worth it if you manage to pull it off. If it's BB that's not entering circulation (because they evade only TBs most of the time) go for it. Click the auto attack, but shotrly before they begin the attack change to manual (as they are on the right approach already, just select place in front/behind the ship). If the target is not BB/stucked cruiser or DD I use the manual attack, as you will at least score some hits.

 

Also had few games in Essex today (strike setup) and was pretty impressed with the DBs. When using auto against BBs I was scoring between 10 and 18K for the 3 DB squadrons + fires. Far away from torps, but the AP bombs will fix it.

 

I did what you advised when I was on lexi, but still it seems that there is a lot of rng in wheter the bombs will hit or not. I will check it later again. Maybe it is a readability issue... when I use manual drop on torps I clearly see how it is going, why it missed and If I do it right I might do a perfect 100% hit. I don't feel like you can do that with DBs, it feels like a dice roll. And AP bombs will change that.

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Alpha Tester
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You can never do 100% hits, not even close on not moving huge CV as Lexington or Essex. The point is you have much bigger chance to do ~50% more damage then the auto attack could have done + more then 1 fire.

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Alpha Tester
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I think this is my biggest problem with DBs then. Not damage, but the fact you can never do 100% hits. How can something this flimsy be main damage source? Oh well, we will see next iteration.

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[DMAS]
Players
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2,124 battles

am i digging this up again? i was just got rekt by my dive bomber.....stationary BB, full squad DBs manual drop perfect alignment!!!!!!!! guess what 0 hit.........fly my DB back, worship the RNG god, bless me hit them, out again! group4 engaging target!, Manual Drop perfect alignment the circle is even smaller than the BB! and guess what 0 dmg! nothign happend and my DBs happily fly back with empty bombs.... whats wrong with me RNG god.....please...........

 

then my TB comes... perfect aligment (side way) manual drop! boom 5 hit torp, dead BB............

 

compare DBs to TBs... thats like compare cherry to an orange....... not truly useless, but when RNG god is not at your side it is truly useless.... maybe RNG god is randomly at your side, so for DBs, you need worship this GOD twice as much, or randomly randomly RNG god is at your side......come on wargaming, every game now is more skill based rather than RNG.......you not a lottery company........

 

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