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Dutch_Soldier

Fr05ty's Dutch Cruiser Tech-Tree(on request)

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Fr05ty over at the NA forum has done an article on on how a Dutch Cruiser Tech-Tree might look like and he asked me to post it over here since the Dutch are in Europe and he can't post it himself (doesn't have the necessary battles in the EU server).
 
 
This article will touch on both the tech-tree regular ships and premium ships. For each ship, I provide the layout of how the ship's weaponry is distributed, its technical specifications and with the same formulas I used for the ADLA articles, their in-game values. Finally, I provide a small piece of analysis of what I think about the ship and how it'd fit with its tiermates. Essentially, each of the ships gets a mini-ADLA with all the information you might be looking for to compare it to its tiermates that are already in-game. Let's hope we see these ships in the virtual seas soon! Also, surprisingly enough, the entire tree has a distinct identity and logical progression.
 
Read Full Article...
 
All feedback and comments are welcome!

 

HERE COME THE FLYING DUTCHMEN!!!!

 

PS: The only ship that is 100% created out of thin air is the Tier 7, which is a WG-esque development of some discussions had in Parliament in the 1930s of how a Dutch Heavy Cruiser might've been. Fr05ty took those requirements and went with a design process off of it, resulting in what you see today. Fr05ty has a naval historian contact that has Dutch Navy designs for 2 heavy cruisers from the 1930s, but he hasn't been able to find them amongst his collection. When he does, Fr05ty'll be able to substitute the T7 for a more historical ship possibly, else, they could become a premium. All other ships have actual design data, construction parameters or actually served.

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Dutch Cruisers have several defining features that should make them stand out:

  • Gunboats first and foremost
  • Improved AP bounce angles (50-65 chance of bounce, 65+ autobounce)
  • Above average gun range
  • Improved long-range accuracy, reduced short-range accuracy
  • Improved HE penetration (1/5 instead of 1/6 and 1/4 instead of 1/5 where applicable)
  • Advanced turtleback armour
  • Repair party from early tiers

Either improved AP or improved HE, not both. That could be too strong.

The line looks like she could work with strong AP and normal HE.

 

The Supercruisers at the end are unusual, but that could make the line interesting. On the other hand WG will be tempted too much to make them premium ships and earn more money.

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I think that a Dutch tech tree is definitely possible.

I have been doing research in the Dutch navy a couple of years now (because I am Dutch myself) so I sketched a possible tech tree :

 

Cruisers :

Tier I : here there are a couple of options : either Hr. Ms. Flores, Hr. Ms. Soemba (these were sisterships) or the 'kanonneerboot' Hr. Ms. Johan Maurits van Nassau or the 'kanonneerboot" K3 (jawel beste Nederlandsers het schip heet echt de K3)

 

Tier II :  'het artillerie-instructieschip' Hr. Ms. Van Kinsbergen or 

 

Tier III : Java class cruiser (so Hr. Ms. Java in the tech tree and Hr. Ms. Sumatra as a premium ship)

 

Tier IV : Hr. Ms. De Ruyter (and that for instance a special campaign will make you unlock the special commander : Karel Doorman)

 

Tier V : Hr. Ms Tromp

 

Tier VI : (ok story time : in the year 1916 the cruisers Hr. Ms. Java and Hr. Ms. Sumatra put up. The original plan was to build four of these ships. So as planted, these ships were built, but in politics the Social Democratic Workers Party' preached a lot of pacifism. As a result, the construction of the third Java class cruiser: Hr. Ms. Celebes canceled in 1919. Because only Hr. Ms. Java and Hr. Ms. Sumatra had been completed, Minister Deckers' fleet plan created space for the construction of a third cruiser. A discussion arose within the navy and the government about the desired properties of the new warship. The Royal Netherlands Navy spoke of a cruiser with a main armament of 20cm guns and torpedo launchers. That turned out to be too ambiguous and this eventually led to the construction of the cruiser Hr. Ms. De Ruyter. What is now very interesting if this cruiser would be built, the main armament would consist of 6x 208mm guns and 2x3 tubes 21inch torpedo launchers. A design quite similar (at least in terms of armament) to the British heavy cruiser HMS Exeter. I think wargaming can really bring this project to life. Since there are specifications about the length of the ship, the general design, the armament etc ... so on this tier VI Hr. Ms. celebes would be a great option.

 

Tier VII Hr. Ms Zeven Provinciën

 

Tier VIII Hr. Ms. De Ruyter (the sister ship of the the Zeven Provinciën only the difference is that this is the original design so instead of being equipped with 8 6 inch guns she will be equipped with 10 6 inch guns) 

 

Tier IX I have no idea which cruiser could be placed here. Because there are (atleast not that I know of) design's that would fit this tier.. However, I do not see this as a problem that should demotivate wargaming in order not to deploy this tech tree, because they also regularly skip a Tier at the submarine tech tree.

 

Tier X Maybe the 1047 battlecruiser project. I mean if we look at the soviet branch the we have a tier 10 cruiser : premium Stalingrad and of course Moskva so I believe that we maybe place this (battle)cruiser at the top of this branch. Otherwise this project should be placed as a tier 6 battleship. (because she has the same main guns as Scharnhorst but no torpedoes)

 

 

 

Submarines : from what I know the submarine tech-tree from all country's will exist out of a tier 6 a tier 8 and a tier 10. Luckily the Royal Dutch Navy (Koninklijke Marine) build quite  a few submarines that were quit modern and succesful : 
(Tier II: O-1)

 

(Tier IV : O-8)

 

Tier VI : O-15 class

 

Tier VIII: K XVIII

 

Tier X: Hr. Ms. Zwaardvisch (voor de Nederlandsers onder ons in 1950 met invoer van de nieuwe spelling werd het Hr. Ms. Zwaardvis)

 

(I think that the lower tier 'subs' could make the Dutch submarine line interesting )

 

 

Destroyers :

 

Tier II Hr. Ms. Ewijck

 

Tier III (Admiralen-class destroyers): so either the name : Piet Hein, Evertsen, Van Ghent, Kortenaer, Van Galen, Witte de With, Banckert, Van Nes. (A special feature of these ships is that they could and would carry a spotter plane (to be exact a : 'Fokker-watervliegtuig') and I think that that is a really interesting feature to put on these destroyers)

 

Tier IV Hr. Ms. Piet Hein (S-class destroyer)

 

Tier VI Hr. Ms. Gerard Callenburgh

 

Tier VII Hr. Ms. Banckert (Q-class destroyer)

 

Tier VIII Hr. Ms. Tjerk Hiddes (1942) (N-class destroyer) she is already in the game in the pan-asia line as the Tier 7 Gadjah Mada. 

 

Tier IX : Hr. Ms Gelderland (a sister ships of the submarine hunter Friesland (who is already in game as a 'freemium'))

 

Tier X : Hr. Ms. Jacob van Heemskerk 

I am aware that technically this is a cruiser. This is namely the sister ship of the cruiser Hr. Ms. Tromp. Both ships were built to function as flotilla leaders. However, the Jacob van Heemskerk could not be completed before the German Wehrmacht attacked the Netherlands. The ship was completed in England and the main armament consisted of five double setups with 4 inch guns. I would probably place this as the top of the Dutch destroyer branch because the playing style of this ship matches the playing style of the submarine hunter: Friesland. Otherwise I would place her as a premium cruiser at tier 5 (just like her sistership)

 

 

Premium ships

 

aircraft carriers :

 

It might stun you but the Royal Netherlands Navy had two aircraft carriers in service, both were called the Karel Doorman.

The first carrier that served in the Royal Netherlands Navy was the light (so called) : escort carrier. Se first served in the Royal Navy as Nairana. And on the 20th of March 1946 she was Put in to service in the Royal Netherlands Navy for two years. She looks like a 'Boque' aircraft carrier and we already had such a ship in the game (but then the mass-carrier genocide came.... I think that this ship could be place on either tier 4 or 5)

 

Karel Doorman 2 

 

Again this was a carrier that was bought from the Royal Navy. Se started service as HMS Venerable and was a so called 'light fleet carrier' of the Colossus-class. On 28th of May 1948 this carrier was put into service in the Royal Netherlands Navy als Hr. Ms. Karel Doorman. It was the biggest ship in the history of the Koninklijke Marine (Royal Dutch Navy). From 1955 to 1958 she underwent a major renovation. She was equipped with new radars, radio equipment and a very important steam-catapult. And thus the size of her crew grew from 1390 people to 1500. She functioned as the flagship of 'smaldeel 5' And eventually she was sold in 1969 tot the argentine navy, with the name 'Veinticinco de Mayo'. And eventually in 1999 she was scrapped in Alang. 

This ship could be placed at tier 6.

 

 

 

 

Battleships :

The collection of the Netherlands Institute for Military History contains plans from 1913-1914 for the construction of a fleet of nine large battleships or "dreadnoughts". These ships were intended for the defense of the Indies, but were never built due to the outbreak of the First World War. Based on the drawings from "Plan No. 772 "from the firm Friedrich Krupp. These battleships would have been equipped wit 8x 330mm guns in two turrets (same type of turret found on the French battlecruiser Dunkerque). This powerful ship could be placed at tier VI (6). Or at least I think so.

 

Cruisers 

 

Tier III Hr. Ms Sumatra (Java-class cruiser)

 

Destroyers :

 

Hr. Ms. Kortenaer (Admiralen-class destroyer) Tier 3 (for ship collectors because of her tragic fate in the battle of the Java Sea)

Hr. Ms Marnix (G-class destroyer) Tier VII

 

And that my dear friend is how I woudl like to see a Dutch fleet!

 

Good luck an fair seas captians!

 

 

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1 hour ago, TKS_command_aimer3 said:

I think that a Dutch tech tree is definitely possible.

I have been doing research in the Dutch navy a couple of years now (because I am Dutch myself) so I sketched a possible tech tree :

 

Cruisers :

Tier I : here there are a couple of options : either Hr. Ms. Flores, Hr. Ms. Soemba (these were sisterships) or the 'kanonneerboot' Hr. Ms. Johan Maurits van Nassau or the 'kanonneerboot" K3 (jawel beste Nederlandsers het schip heet echt de K3)

 

Tier II :  'het artillerie-instructieschip' Hr. Ms. Van Kinsbergen or 

 

Tier III : Java class cruiser (so Hr. Ms. Java in the tech tree and Hr. Ms. Sumatra as a premium ship)

 

Tier IV : Hr. Ms. De Ruyter (and that for instance a special campaign will make you unlock the special commander : Karel Doorman)

 

Tier V : Hr. Ms Tromp

 

Tier VI : (ok story time : in the year 1916 the cruisers Hr. Ms. Java and Hr. Ms. Sumatra put up. The original plan was to build four of these ships. So as planted, these ships were built, but in politics the Social Democratic Workers Party' preached a lot of pacifism. As a result, the construction of the third Java class cruiser: Hr. Ms. Celebes canceled in 1919. Because only Hr. Ms. Java and Hr. Ms. Sumatra had been completed, Minister Deckers' fleet plan created space for the construction of a third cruiser. A discussion arose within the navy and the government about the desired properties of the new warship. The Royal Netherlands Navy spoke of a cruiser with a main armament of 20cm guns and torpedo launchers. That turned out to be too ambiguous and this eventually led to the construction of the cruiser Hr. Ms. De Ruyter. What is now very interesting if this cruiser would be built, the main armament would consist of 6x 208mm guns and 2x3 tubes 21inch torpedo launchers. A design quite similar (at least in terms of armament) to the British heavy cruiser HMS Exeter. I think wargaming can really bring this project to life. Since there are specifications about the length of the ship, the general design, the armament etc ... so on this tier VI Hr. Ms. celebes would be a great option.

 

Tier VII Hr. Ms Zeven Provinciën

 

Tier VIII Hr. Ms. De Ruyter (the sister ship of the the Zeven Provinciën only the difference is that this is the original design so instead of being equipped with 8 6 inch guns she will be equipped with 10 6 inch guns) 

 

Tier IX I have no idea which cruiser could be placed here. Because there are (atleast not that I know of) design's that would fit this tier.. However, I do not see this as a problem that should demotivate wargaming in order not to deploy this tech tree, because they also regularly skip a Tier at the submarine tech tree.

 

Tier X Maybe the 1047 battlecruiser project. I mean if we look at the soviet branch the we have a tier 10 cruiser : premium Stalingrad and of course Moskva so I believe that we maybe place this (battle)cruiser at the top of this branch. Otherwise this project should be placed as a tier 6 battleship. (because she has the same main guns as Scharnhorst but no torpedoes)

 

 

 

Submarines : from what I know the submarine tech-tree from all country's will exist out of a tier 6 a tier 8 and a tier 10. Luckily the Royal Dutch Navy (Koninklijke Marine) build quite  a few submarines that were quit modern and succesful : 
(Tier II: O-1)

 

(Tier IV : O-8)

 

Tier VI : O-15 class

 

Tier VIII: K XVIII

 

Tier X: Hr. Ms. Zwaardvisch (voor de Nederlandsers onder ons in 1950 met invoer van de nieuwe spelling werd het Hr. Ms. Zwaardvis)

 

(I think that the lower tier 'subs' could make the Dutch submarine line interesting )

 

 

Destroyers :

 

Tier II Hr. Ms. Ewijck

 

Tier III (Admiralen-class destroyers): so either the name : Piet Hein, Evertsen, Van Ghent, Kortenaer, Van Galen, Witte de With, Banckert, Van Nes. (A special feature of these ships is that they could and would carry a spotter plane (to be exact a : 'Fokker-watervliegtuig') and I think that that is a really interesting feature to put on these destroyers)

 

Tier IV Hr. Ms. Piet Hein (S-class destroyer)

 

Tier VI Hr. Ms. Gerard Callenburgh

 

Tier VII Hr. Ms. Banckert (Q-class destroyer)

 

Tier VIII Hr. Ms. Tjerk Hiddes (1942) (N-class destroyer) she is already in the game in the pan-asia line as the Tier 7 Gadjah Mada. 

 

Tier IX : Hr. Ms Gelderland (a sister ships of the submarine hunter Friesland (who is already in game as a 'freemium'))

 

Tier X : Hr. Ms. Jacob van Heemskerk 

I am aware that technically this is a cruiser. This is namely the sister ship of the cruiser Hr. Ms. Tromp. Both ships were built to function as flotilla leaders. However, the Jacob van Heemskerk could not be completed before the German Wehrmacht attacked the Netherlands. The ship was completed in England and the main armament consisted of five double setups with 4 inch guns. I would probably place this as the top of the Dutch destroyer branch because the playing style of this ship matches the playing style of the submarine hunter: Friesland. Otherwise I would place her as a premium cruiser at tier 5 (just like her sistership)

 

 

Premium ships

 

aircraft carriers :

 

It might stun you but the Royal Netherlands Navy had two aircraft carriers in service, both were called the Karel Doorman.

The first carrier that served in the Royal Netherlands Navy was the light (so called) : escort carrier. Se first served in the Royal Navy as Nairana. And on the 20th of March 1946 she was Put in to service in the Royal Netherlands Navy for two years. She looks like a 'Boque' aircraft carrier and we already had such a ship in the game (but then the mass-carrier genocide came.... I think that this ship could be place on either tier 4 or 5)

 

Karel Doorman 2 

 

Again this was a carrier that was bought from the Royal Navy. Se started service as HMS Venerable and was a so called 'light fleet carrier' of the Colossus-class. On 28th of May 1948 this carrier was put into service in the Royal Netherlands Navy als Hr. Ms. Karel Doorman. It was the biggest ship in the history of the Koninklijke Marine (Royal Dutch Navy). From 1955 to 1958 she underwent a major renovation. She was equipped with new radars, radio equipment and a very important steam-catapult. And thus the size of her crew grew from 1390 people to 1500. She functioned as the flagship of 'smaldeel 5' And eventually she was sold in 1969 tot the argentine navy, with the name 'Veinticinco de Mayo'. And eventually in 1999 she was scrapped in Alang. 

This ship could be placed at tier 6.

 

 

 

 

Battleships :

The collection of the Netherlands Institute for Military History contains plans from 1913-1914 for the construction of a fleet of nine large battleships or "dreadnoughts". These ships were intended for the defense of the Indies, but were never built due to the outbreak of the First World War. Based on the drawings from "Plan No. 772 "from the firm Friedrich Krupp. These battleships would have been equipped wit 8x 330mm guns in two turrets (same type of turret found on the French battlecruiser Dunkerque). This powerful ship could be placed at tier VI (6). Or at least I think so.

 

Cruisers 

 

Tier III Hr. Ms Sumatra (Java-class cruiser)

 

Destroyers :

 

Hr. Ms. Kortenaer (Admiralen-class destroyer) Tier 3 (for ship collectors because of her tragic fate in the battle of the Java Sea)

Hr. Ms Marnix (G-class destroyer) Tier VII

 

And that my dear friend is how I woudl like to see a Dutch fleet!

 

Good luck an fair seas captians!

 

 

Here is a reply from Fro5ty:

 

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