Armory changes in patch 0.9.3 and first coal ship buying question.

[AshGear]

Hello again wows forum dwellers 

 

So update 0.9.2.1 comes tommorow, and thus the race to get JB and Smolensk is rawning near its end.

 

To my understanding reading what WG said they will both get removed in patch 0.9.3

 

I've reached enough coal to be able to buy any coal ship at the armory, and its also gonna be my first coal ship.

 

And im having a hard time figurering out which one to get, since i wanna try something new gameplay wise.

 

I only have 3 TX ships. The Yamato, GK and Haku i play on a regular basis, i dont play T9 or below maybe im missing out?

 

So at first i thought about getting the Thunderer because i also own Cunningham from the RN event, and i dont own any RN ship. I've read that he fits nice on a Thunderer or conquerer. But then again i all ready own 2 BB's and have no cruiser for CB 

 

Then i thought about gettin the Smolensk, but i dunno if she's any good after the IFHE change. Plus ill contribute to the all ready boring HE spam meta which i dont really enjoy, i guess the same could be said for the thunderer.

 

There is also the Yoshino which i find interestning but from what i seen, she behave like a bad hybrid?

 

The two other options i thought of was the Georgia og JB, but then again why get a T9 ship? but the gimmicks on those two looks fun..

 

So help me out guys and make my choice easy :D

[DFens_666]

T9 premiums earn more credits than T10, because T10 ships arent premium in the same sense as on T9 or below. So JB/Georgia can earn more credits than Thunderer or Smolensk.

IFHE didnt affect Smolensk, it was playable without IFHE before, maybe the reason to use IFHE is smaller these days, as you lose a bit more firechance. But with 28mm pen, its only helpful against T8-9 Cruisers + T10 Cruiser bow/stern armor. So not really a big deal.

Smolensk is a pretty unique ship, and Thunderer doesnt get removed.

Also, Thunderer is NOT an HE spammer. if you compare Conq with Thunderer, then Conq is the better HE ship, while Thunderer is the better AP ship. That doesnt mean, that either shouldnt use the other ammo, as you will get better results if you use the correct ammo and doesnt stick to one all the time.

 

[bigdoguk]

Get the thunderer it's a great ship and fun to play.

[firerider202]

I would take JB, if you dont enjoy HE Spammer, smolensk is probably not the best pick for you. Its also fun to play and earns good amount of credits. You defenetly should take one of the ships witch get removed, you can get the others later. 

[Karasu_Hidesuke]

22 minutes ago, bigdoguk said:

Get the thunderer it's a great ship and fun to play.

 

Similar to the tech tree Conqueror though... and IMO inferior to it. So, I'd rather recommend grinding up to the Conqueror.

[Verblonde]

If it were me, I'd get one of the two that are being removed (unless you plan to buy a lot of Xmas crates), and I'd probably get Smol; all the Christmas gamble boxes so far - is it three years, now? - have only gone up to T9, so when it's gone that's yer lot. Unless WG start including T10s in the gamble boxes.

 

JB also is similar to some of the existing French ships (albeit not identical), so you can get similar gameplay elsewhere.

[GulvkluderGuld]

1 hour ago, AshGear said:

I only have 3 TX ships. The Yamato, GK and Haku i play on a regular basis, i dont play T9 or below maybe im missing out?

Dont you play new lines?

 

If you need credits --> tier IX are your friend. They earn much more credits than tier Xs. 

If you like BBs, get JB, see below.

 

Yoshino: it is a megaZao spamming high caliber HE from long range. That is virtually the only playstyle it is suited for since it lacks the aneuverability of the Zao.

Smolensk: Best way to farm reports short of playing CVs. Fun to spam HE from 16-19 km without using smoke and watch AP splash all around, but gets boring quickly and cannot play aggressive, only farm targets stationary or moving towards it.

 

I recently got JB over Thunderer despite collecting mainly tier X ships ( I already own smolensk).

Didnt regret it. It is fun to play and very good, because it has multiple builds and playstyles. Having access to french speedbost, it is really fast and can play as a battlecruiser spamming HE from the back, hit speedboost and dash in to deliver some AP and be back out very quickly. Or it can bowtank as needed and reverse really quick with speedboost out of danger. Or you can build it for secondaries and use it in operations. Plus MBRB on a BB is just filthy. 

 

3 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

If it were me, I'd get one of the two that are being removed (unless you plan to buy a lot of Xmas crates), and I'd probably get Smol; all the Christmas gamble boxes so far - is it three years, now? - have only gone up to T9, so when it's gone that's yer lot. Unless WG start including T10s in the gamble boxes.

 

JB also is similar to some of the existing French ships (albeit not identical), so you can get similar gameplay elsewhere.

 

Well said too.

 

The french tech tree ships are not really comparable to the JB/Bourgogne since those have both MBRB and much better dispersion, only the speed is really the same.

[Excavatus]

8 hours ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

Similar to the tech tree Conqueror though... and IMO inferior to it. So, I'd rather recommend grinding up to the Conqueror.

If you spam HE from Thunderer.. you are right, 

but it is the wrong way to play with her.. 

457mm AP, with that range and that concealment, 

Thunderer is nothing like ConQek, and much much better than her... 

Personal opinion though! 

[ThePurpleSmurf]

9 hours ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

Similar to the tech tree Conqueror though... and IMO inferior to it. So, I'd rather recommend grinding up to the Conqueror.

Sorry, but your comment clearly shows why you have a 46% winrate. If there wasn't Kremlin the Thunderer would be by far the best tier 10 BB. It has exceptionally precise guns, insanely strong AP that can devastate any cruiser as well as BBs if they show enough side or don't angle properly. It also has big enough guns to overmatch a lot of armor.

Only a puppy (sadly i'm not allowed to use the other P-word here) who spams HE from max range in a BB would make a suggestion as you just did. The only thing Conq and Thunderer have in common is the same nation, pretty much every thing else is different, especially the guns, and in HUGE favor of the Thunderer.

[invicta2012]

9 hours ago, firerider202 said:

You defenetly should take one of the ships witch get removed, you can get the others later

What the man said. The three coal ships I own are Musashi (big guns), Jean Bart (fun and versatile) and Smolensk (spam, spam, spam, spam) and these are fun to play in any game mode.  They are also good for completing directives, and seem to be profitable (in terms of credits), so completely worth the currency. Thunderer is probably next, then Salem (unless I get interrupted by an interesting DD in the meantime).

[Panocek]

1 hour ago, Excavatus said:

If you spam HE from Thunderer.. you are right, 

but it is the wrong way to play with her.. 

457mm AP, with that range and that concealment, 

Thunderer is nothing like ConQek, and much much better than her... 

Personal opinion though! 

Doesn't mean you can't apply quality slap with 457mm HE when you have no broadsides to abuse.

 

Same goes with Conkek, her AP is nothing to sneeze at when presented with nice target

[Uglesett]

As others have said, I'd definitely go with one of the ships that's getting removed, because they're unlikely to make a comeback.

 

As someone who has both, I'd argue that Jean Bart is the most interesting to play of the two. She's got a big box-o-gimmicks and with the combination of speed boost and reload booster she can be something of a playmaker, getting into flanking positions quickly and offering up a world of hurt. Good credit earnings doesn't hurt either.

 

Smolensk is good, but a lot of the time she's not terribly exciting to play even when you're doing well in her.

[VanD4rk]

Get Smol with coal and feed the WG troll with money for the JB.

They are both strong ships. 

JB is fun and you can't get bored like in the Smolensk, on the other hand JB has 380mm guns which were nerfed by the changes to the armor plating.

So you will overmatch fewer cruisers now on the upper plating.

Smolensk is the same troll ship, but I get bored after playing some games in it.

Hard choice to make to be honest.

 

 

[Lootboxer]

10 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

I recently got JB over Thunderer despite collecting mainly tier X ships ( I already own smolensk).

...

Or you can build it for secondaries and use it in operations

Whut T9 operations?

Coop you mean?

[BNS_Victory]

Why is everybody talking about JB if you can get a Georgia? Georgia is a much much better ship than JB in almost any way. Far better survivability, just awesome manouverability, very accurate 457mm guns in stead of garbage 380's that can't even overmatch 27mm plating. Troll secondaries for the memes that actually can do something....

And I'm not even talking about JB weaknesses. The turrets on those things break so often it's not even fun to play. If you face a decent player in your JB you only have a one way ticket: ramming speed bcs your guns will both be broken by the time you can get to his side.

 

Seriously, if you take JB over Georgia nowadays you're making a mistake unless you're sure you'll have enough coal to get Georgia next time. JB will be removed but imo it's not worth getting her.

[BNS_Victory]

Oh, something I forgot to say, why t9 ships? Because mm is a lot better in t9. The chance you're top tier is pretty high and the chance of facing a cv is lower because there are no t9 cv's. I see this as an absolute win! :)

[Ocsimano18]

I have the Jean-Bart, the Georgia, the Thunderer and the Smolensk. I like all of them, but neither of them is my absolute favorite ship (which is Tirpitz/Massachusetts).

 

Jean-Bart feels like a Tirpitz (i.e. it has a T8 battleship survivability), that can handle T9 games well. It does not need a high point captain. I feel games with it less exciting, than with the other 3 coal ships I have.

 

Georgia feels like a battle cruiser. It's quite squishy, but fast. You can go with a standard US battleship captain, or you can spec into secondaries (then you need a 14 point specialized captain at least). It's a monster when top tier.

 

Thunderer is a solid T10 battleship that is also competitive in ranked/clan battles. It's kind of versatile because of the strong AP/HE combo. It's squishy, but highly maneuverable and has a nice heal. It does not need a high point captain.

 

Smolensk is still very strong, but needs at least a 16 point specialized captain. It's also competitive in ranked/clan battles. It only feels annoying if you are in a battleship against it. You can play it when you are less focused, because it's easy to spam fire. But it still needs positioning and situational awareness.

 

If I had to pick only one of them, I would take the Thunderer, as it's both challenging/interesting/rewarding to play with.

If I take into account that Smolensk and Jean-Bart will be removed, then I'd pick the Smolensk, as it's OP and competitive. But you need a high point Russian captain for it to avoid the buyers remorse.

Also, you can actually buy Jean-Bart in the shop, if you're willing to spend the money for it, but I'd rather buy the Massachusetts with discount from the armory.

[Karasu_Hidesuke]

3 hours ago, Excavatus said:

If you spam HE from Thunderer.. you are right, 

but it is the wrong way to play with her.. 

457mm AP, with that range and that concealment, 

Thunderer is nothing like ConQek, and much much better than her... 

Personal opinion though! 

 

I do spam HE from Thunderer... is the Wiki outdated? Cause the stats show that the HE potential of the Thunderer guns is superior to that of the Conqueror.... confused. I've played both ships about the same way, firing HE at long range and switching to AP at closer range, especially with broadside being offered at close range...

 

It just seems that the Conqueror suited me better, so I guess it is a matter of personal preference.

 

3 hours ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

Sorry, but your comment clearly shows why you have a 46% winrate. If there wasn't Kremlin the Thunderer would be by far the best tier 10 BB. It has exceptionally precise guns, insanely strong AP that can devastate any cruiser as well as BBs if they show enough side or don't angle properly. It also has big enough guns to overmatch a lot of armor.

Only a puppy (sadly i'm not allowed to use the other P-word here) who spams HE from max range in a BB would make a suggestion as you just did. The only thing Conq and Thunderer have in common is the same nation, pretty much every thing else is different, especially the guns, and in HUGE favor of the Thunderer.

 

Damn I though I had my stats hidden...

 

I hated the Kremlin too, way too situational for my tastes with results varying from stellar to abysmal from battle to battle. (The best tier 10 BB IMHO is the Yamato, also the only tier X BB so far that really existed...)

 

I'm not a puppy! I'm a 

[DFens_666]

7 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

I do spam HE from Thunderer... is the Wiki outdated? Cause the stats show that the HE potential of the Thunderer guns is superior to that of the Conqueror.... confused. I've played both ships about the same way, firing HE at long range and switching to AP at closer range, especially with broadside being offered at close range...

 

It just seems that the Conqueror suited me better, so I guess it is a matter of personal preference.

 

Thats because Conqueror is the better HE spammer as it has 50% more guns than Thunderer. But Thunderer has awesome AP, its totaly different than Conquerors AP.

[BNS_Victory]

If you're HE spamming in Thunderer you really doesn't deserve to play it! Your main shell type is AP so stick with that. The only time you can switch to HE is for schooting dd's and bow in bb's if you have nothing else to schoot. Keep in mind that when you're facing nose in bb's a lot you really are misspositioned and thus need to work on that. The HE is just a nice extra for Thunderer, nothing more. Take this from a guy that can quite confidently say he knows how to play Thunderer.

[Excavatus]

24 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

HE at long range and switching to AP at closer range,

wrong with thuderer..

long range.. AP is amazing..

your concealment helps you to flank them

[Karasu_Hidesuke]

26 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Thats because Conqueror is the better HE spammer as it has 50% more guns than Thunderer. But Thunderer has awesome AP, its totaly different than Conquerors AP.

 

12 minutes ago, BNS_Victory said:

If you're HE spamming in Thunderer you really doesn't deserve to play it! Your main shell type is AP so stick with that. The only time you can switch to HE is for schooting dd's and bow in bb's if you have nothing else to schoot. Keep in mind that when you're facing nose in bb's a lot you really are misspositioned and thus need to work on that. The HE is just a nice extra for Thunderer, nothing more. Take this from a guy that can quite confidently say he knows how to play Thunderer.

 

11 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

wrong with thuderer..

long range.. AP is amazing..

your concealment helps you to flank them

 

Noted, thanks. I guess that massive HE % on the Thunderer seemed like it was too good to be true then. No wonder the Conqueror felt much more fun to play then...

[Excavatus]

38 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

I guess that massive HE % on the Thunderer seemed like it was too good to be true then

Dont get me wrong, 

great HE damage and fire potential. 

But unlike conQek, Thunderer can delete somehow overangled or broadside CAs and CLs from 20km.. :) 

457mm guns are so much fun.. and on top of that, most people don't expect her to reload that fast :)

[Karasu_Hidesuke]

2 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Dont get me wrong, 

great HE damage and fire potential. 

But unlike conQek, Thunderer can delete somehow overangled or broadside CAs and CLs from 20km.. :) 

457mm guns are so much fun.. and on top of that, most people don't expect her to reload that fast :)

 

Thanks for the clarification, using too much HE will only make use of one aspect of the ships potential, playing it like a normal BB primarily with AP will get better results. In other words, a very different kettle of fish compared to the Conqueror. I got the Thunderer, and I can buy back the Conqueror should I choose to.. but for those who are still thinking of how to spend their coal. What would you say is the smarter choice? Getting the tech tree Conqueror at the cost of credits or spending the coal needed to get the Thunderer?

[AshGear]

Hmn from what i understand from wows wiki page patch 0.9.3 is coming the 8th april is that correct?

 

Also thx for the feedback fellas it makes the choice more easy for me :) 

 

about the thunderer…  I've all ready own yamato for max AP dmg output the reason i mentioned the Thunderer HE ability was because i own Andrew Cunningham and im missing a boat for him to use he's ability's in. And they rely on your fire chance settings.