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Afghanicus

Who let the bots out?

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I often get the impression while in random that, I'm the only human player on my team. Literally in some games there is simply no spam regarding coms etc. Strangely when I see someone shoveling salt I'm reassured that I'm not alone. 

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I don't belive much in BOTS in this game. But I belive in people that doesn't have any idea of how to play this game, yes. :cap_look:

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Vor 43 Minuten, GioIonutz sagte:

I don't belive much in BOTS in this game. But I belive in people that doesn't have any idea of how to play this game, yes. :cap_look:

With the above numbers, however, that is either a bot or some Asian account developing company.

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6 minutes ago, Johnny_Moneto said:

With the above numbers, however, that is either a bot or some Asian account developing company.

Well, if the number of hours calculated by Palubarac are right, its just impossible to be an human. But who knows what kind of accounts are these... 

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Although I agree with the general idea (we've all encountered players like the aforementioned and threads related to the issue pop up in the forum from time to time), I'll play a bit of devil's advocate here. I said that, but it could also be seen as an alternative analysis for detecting such entities.

 

As Palubarac himself pointed out, maybe his estimated duration of battles is off. That's probably be the case, since you can leave battle as soon as your ship is sunk in order to jump onto another one. Considering that, what could a pure bot behaviour look like? In my opinion, the most extreme case of "botness" would be a YOLO that ensures dying first every single time, and that would require at least about 2 minutes on average (certain classes are more prone than others) due to the fact of opposing teams having to enter visual contact with each other. The 2 minutes mark wasn't chosen randomly: even Yuro and his gang needed slightly above that to kill the red CVs in his latest video, and they were coordinated and going for it on purpose. Unifying durations and making the numbers again with all that in mind, it's only slightly above 4 hours per day of gameplay.

 

Even if the numbers I've calculated were closer to the truth gameplay-wise, I don't believe a sane human being would actually stay in front of a monitor, keyboard and mouse in his hands, going through such an ordeal, it simply goes against the dopamine and adrenaline rushes we expect to get from a shooting game.

 

Salute.

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4 hours ago, Palubarac said:

I removed the guy's name because of the "name and shame" rule which again makes basically no sense at all.

 

 

regarding the name and shame rules, I am still waiting for WG to explain to me how such rule can apply to bots or automated messages, as neither are human.

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I once contacted support about a bot. Showed them the math and a couple of vids of "him" playing.

 

Today, "he" has had the account for 23 months and in that time "he" have played over 40 000 games. That's 58 games/day. 2.5 games/hour. Every day for almost two years. 

 

In June 2019 "he" played 3 975 games. That's 131 games/day or 5.5/hour, for a month.

 

805919384_2019-06-03(3).thumb.png.73e012ab97a196025bc85e268366ba8a.png1652077925_2019-06-04(1).thumb.png.0414da1a73059d00a747ccb4944d5bff.png

 

WG: "We will look into it and take care of it."

 

One year later the guy is still active, on the same account.

 

Among his ships are:

 

Colbert, Salem, Musashi, Missouri, Black, Kronshtadt, Yoshino, Benham, and Nelson.

 

All "earned" by using a bot-program.

 

It makes my blood boil when I see guys like "him" get away with stuff like this.

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hell i found an entire clan of Bots, all exibit the same behaviour 


they all play a single line ( Japanese Battleships, Russian Cruisers etc ) 
 

they all play approx 120~ battles per day

 

they all sit at the back of the map, but when spotted they turn AWAY and kite, firing only their rear guns as they wiggle, i thought it was odd when i saw a player in an Amagi doing this, but when i ran into the Alsace player doing it

there really was no doubt anymore

 

i Report them when i see them, but do any of us really believe WG treats bots seriously ? i followed one in WOT ages ago, who botted to 17k games and multiple TeirX tanks before WG stepped in and...Reset his Stats and he started botting again to around 13k games and they just reset him again... 
and on his third time through, he STILL botted to multiple teir8s before he stopped bothering but again, was never banned ( a WOT CC at an event said they dont remove the botters accounts because WG like to keep the player count up ) 

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Have you ever thought that these Bot accounts belong to WG?

 

Thinking of the numbers of players, wouldn't it be logical, if you wanted a game to look more popular than it actually is you create fake accounts.

 

Kind of like advertisements for products you want to sell where you pay people to say how good your product is...

 

I've always been a cynic....

 

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The majority of reports we get about players to be a bot are in fact normal players who are just insanely bad players.

I cannot confirm or deny that some of those are in fact bots, but in order to ban a bot, we need to be sure it indeed is one. We cannot just ban the account of a legit player. Without having looking into that account above, just by doing math. If he is playing ~120 battles a day on average with such bad stats, is it that unrealistic that his ship gets destroyed within a few minutes after battle start and he just jumps into the next one? No job, no family, no nothing, just gaming for him... With that assumption, it is very well achievable to play that much while still sleeping as well, possibly even while having a part-time job.

While I don't understand the motivation of such players, I have met some in person. So they definitely do exist and for them it is indeed fun...

 

Having bots (or so called "china farmers") in our game is not in our interest, so we will do all we can to fight them and ban them. There is probably no perfect system, so a few might slip through, who knows, but without having clear proof, we cannot issue a ban to an account.

We are however constantly improving our detection methos for bots and farmers and will continue to do so.

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1 hour ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

Have you ever thought that these Bot accounts belong to WG? 

 

 

Yes, of course. These accounts plays hundreds and hundreds of battles with hacks like aimbot and this is the most reasonable explanation for WG not to ban them.

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52 minutes ago, BielayaSmert said:

 

Yes, of course. These accounts plays hundreds and hundreds of battles with hacks like aimbot and this is the most reasonable explanation for WG not to ban them.

It's easy to create a bot account. But it may be harder to damacon a real person having been unjustly banned for botting while he is a real person with odd gaming habits.

If they can be caught for using illegal programs, WG could still ban such persons but this could also give false positives.

 

And some of these people may really be this level of royal sadness, who can tell?

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2 hours ago, Sehales said:

The majority of reports we get about players to be a bot are in fact normal players who are just insanely bad players.

I cannot confirm or deny that some of those are in fact bots, but in order to ban a bot, we need to be sure it indeed is one. We cannot just ban the account of a legit player. Without having looking into that account above, just by doing math. If he is playing ~120 battles a day on average with such bad stats, is it that unrealistic that his ship gets destroyed within a few minutes after battle start and he just jumps into the next one? No job, no family, no nothing, just gaming for him... With that assumption, it is very well achievable to play that much while still sleeping as well, possibly even while having a part-time job.

While I don't understand the motivation of such players, I have met some in person. So they definitely do exist and for them it is indeed fun...

 

Having bots (or so called "china farmers") in our game is not in our interest, so we will do all we can to fight them and ban them. There is probably no perfect system, so a few might slip through, who knows, but without having clear proof, we cannot issue a ban to an account.

We are however constantly improving our detection methos for bots and farmers and will continue to do so.

Dear Sehales,

 

Are you actually serious? Those lines (bold ones) can't pass through my skull TBH.

 

First of all, before even writing anything you could have checked his games. If needed, I can provide reports. I have played with him on different occasions in the last few days (2 games only yesterday) and he did NOT die in the first few minutes of the game. Even if he did, could you please provide us with numbers to back up your theory? Of someone having no job or family and just playing your game?

 

I'd like to see some numbers, please. I've put mine, I expect you to put yours.

 

It's not like I suspect he is a bot, I know 100% he is one. 

 

I mean, a WG staff can easily see his average battle time and how many hours he spends a day playing, can't you?

 

So do us a favor and check, then give us the numbers so we can understand your theory which sounds very very very unlikely (I'd dare saying impossible).

 

 

P.S. The last line (the underlined one) basically says what the WG support always says - "We won't do anything about this, the system will take care of that. Sooner or later". If you don't see this then I believe there is a problem. Just keep in mind that this bot has been 'botting' for the last 2 months so your "detection methods" aren't very effective, are they? The same way they were not effective during the mentioned "1000 euros for the top recruiter" event and players had to report those all the time. Let's be at least a bit transparent here and leave those silly stories for the newbies.

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1 hour ago, Sehales said:

The majority of reports we get about players to be a bot are in fact normal players who are just insanely bad players.

That have around 120+ games per day for the last few months... Theares a RU streamer kinda talked about that recently.

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6 hours ago, Estaca_de_Bares said:

Although I agree with the general idea (we've all encountered players like the aforementioned and threads related to the issue pop up in the forum from time to time), I'll play a bit of devil's advocate here. I said that, but it could also be seen as an alternative analysis for detecting such entities.

 

As Palubarac himself pointed out, maybe his estimated duration of battles is off. That's probably be the case, since you can leave battle as soon as your ship is sunk in order to jump onto another one. Considering that, what could a pure bot behaviour look like? In my opinion, the most extreme case of "botness" would be a YOLO that ensures dying first every single time, and that would require at least about 2 minutes on average (certain classes are more prone than others) due to the fact of opposing teams having to enter visual contact with each other. The 2 minutes mark wasn't chosen randomly: even Yuro and his gang needed slightly above that to kill the red CVs in his latest video, and they were coordinated and going for it on purpose. Unifying durations and making the numbers again with all that in mind, it's only slightly above 4 hours per day of gameplay.

 

Even if the numbers I've calculated were closer to the truth gameplay-wise, I don't believe a sane human being would actually stay in front of a monitor, keyboard and mouse in his hands, going through such an ordeal, it simply goes against the dopamine and adrenaline rushes we expect to get from a shooting game.

 

Salute.

So according to you, the average battle time for all battles modes was 2 minutes? Based on what? On ONE video showing that a CV has been killed within 2:30min? Seriously?

 

You cannot have over 8,000 battles (mostly Random) with an average of 2 min per battle. Let's not kid ourselves and look at the facts realistically, please.

 

14 minutes ago, Azalgor said:

That have around 120+ games per day for the last few months... Theares a RU streamer kinda talked about that recently.

I'd like to see such account/player. I'm not saying it's impossible but highly unlikely. Even if your goal is to die asap, it's still not easy to achieve. And according to his WR of over 45% it doesn't seem he goes YOLO and dies first in the first 5 minutes of the game (let's forget the 2-minute mark as it's the most stupid thing I've heard lately). 

 

And as I said... I played a few games with him (2 of those only yesterday so I have replays) so he definitely did not die asap. But he did ram into me and then continue going full ahead without changing speed, turning the ship or doing anything until I was able to let him pass. During the "incident" he never even turned the guns, he didn't horn, didn't write anything in chat and didn't use the 'Shift+F12' command which is again highly unlikely.

 

P.S. As I said, he is in battle non-stop. He played about 30 games since I posted last night and please note that I posted at 2am when most people went to bed or are going to bed soon. But not our guy. Our guy decided not to sleep but play instead and managed to play about 30 games since my post which was 10 hours ago. 

 

But hey Palubarac... you say... 30 games in 10 hours is possible. That's 3 games per hour or 20 minutes per game. That's actually longer than any average. Yeah, during "sane" hours. Not from 2AM to noon. Every single day.

 

But as I said before... WG can check this very very easily. But I guess the goal is to convince us that bots don't exist even though it is a problem that should be acknowledged instead of covering it. We all remember what happened during that 1000 euros prize for the "best recruiter" or whatever it was. I think the server was so infected with bots that even WG couldn't deny it anymore. But let's pretend those things never happened and hope the new players have no idea about it...

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If the player has premium ships in the port even if they are obvious bots then WG is not likely to ban them (even if that just results in the player re-buying the ships with a different accounts).

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Palubarac said:

You cannot have over 8,000 battles (mostly Random) with an average of 2 min per battle. Let's not kid ourselves and look at the facts realistically, please.

 

Id like to add, that 2 minutes might be the time he stays in battle. Add to that:

- Entering queue few secs

- staying in queue can sometimes be a minute these days, not to mention, if you play 24h a day you will slip into off-hours at some point, making it more likely to have longer queue times

- loading into the battle ~ 1 minute i think till it actually starts.

- Going back to port few secs again.

 

So even if you suicide 2 mins into the game EVERY time, your average time for 1 game is still like 4 mins atleast. Not to mention, dying after 2 mins every time is highly unlikely (BBs f.e.) and sometimes enemies just run away from your flank, so you cant always suicide into them.

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With those very human-like XP/Damage scores could it possibly be a person who has just done a Server Transfer and has brought their old details over with them (which is why the account shows a recent creation but may have years spent on a different server) or are all those battles shown above also seen in Wow-numbers etc as actual battles played since Jan 2020?

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52 minutes ago, BrusilovX said:

If the player has premium ships in the port even if they are obvious bots then WG is not likely to ban them (even if that just results in the player re-buying the ships with a different accounts).

No premium ships in his port. So your theory is off, at least in this case.

 

48 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Id like to add, that 2 minutes might be the time he stays in battle. Add to that:

- Entering queue few secs

- staying in queue can sometimes be a minute these days, not to mention, if you play 24h a day you will slip into off-hours at some point, making it more likely to have longer queue times

- loading into the battle ~ 1 minute i think till it actually starts.

- Going back to port few secs again.

 

So even if you suicide 2 mins into the game EVERY time, your average time for 1 game is still like 4 mins atleast. Not to mention, dying after 2 mins every time is highly unlikely (BBs f.e.) and sometimes enemies just run away from your flank, so you cant always suicide into them.

The bold part is a very important fact. Since "he" plays 24/7 he plays also during low-activity times like last night (30 games in the last 10 hours). Waiting in queues during those hours would last longer than the battle itself. Whoever played during those hours knows that. I did stay until 2-3am some days and I know the time in queue gets longer and longer. 

 

Besides, I already said that he does not die in the first 2 minutes. Firstly, because it's very unlikely, especially to have that odd situation happening 8,000 times in a row but also because I played with him and can confirm this is NOT the case. I have replays to back it up.

 

48 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

With those very human-like XP/Damage scores could it possibly be a person who has just done a Server Transfer and has brought their old details over with them (which is why the account shows a recent creation but may have years spent on a different server) or are all those battles shown above also seen in Wow-numbers etc as actual battles played since Jan 2020?

I don't think that's how a account/server transfer works. I'm sure a WG staff can confirm this.

 

Besides, that would explain the numbers if you check his account ONCE. It would not explain how the numbers keep rising every time you refresh his stats. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Palubarac said:

because I played with him and can confirm this is NOT the case. I have replays to back it up. 

 

Does he have some pattern in his movement?

Ive seen bots that

- are fast moving left and right, which i thinks is to trick WGs anti-bot programming. You can see the ship is doing slight left and right maneuvers ALL the time.

- Not moving until spotted. You see tons of those, that must be bots. They are "AFK" till they are spotted (or sometimes even shot at) then they suddenly start to move.

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9 minutes ago, Palubarac said:

Since "he" plays 24/7 he plays also during low-activity times like last night (30 games in the last 10 hours). Waiting in queues during those hours would last longer than the battle itself. Whoever played during those hours knows that. I did stay until 2-3am some days and I know the time in queue gets longer and longer. 

 

Tinfoil hat on: That's why WG will tolerate those players as they will fill the queue making waiting time for us humans shorter, also potatoes can kill them and feel good about 35 ojro investment into a new shiny Tirpitz. :cap_haloween:

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2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Does he have some pattern in his movement?

Ive seen bots that

- are fast moving left and right, which i thinks is to trick WGs anti-bot programming. You can see the ship is doing slight left and right maneuvers ALL the time.

- Not moving until spotted. You see tons of those, that must be bots. They are "AFK" till they are spotted (or sometimes even shot at) then they suddenly start to move.

I'd have to check the replays and see.

 

From yesterday... the first game I didn't even notice him. But a team mate wrote in chat that he is a bot as he played with him last battle. Then I noticed his name and remembered playing with him and thinking the same (never cared to check at that time the stats or anything). That first game he rammed into me and kept his engine full ahead without turning. Or at least that's how it looked like because you know that when you're in those situation (or on a map border), you cannot really control the ship as you would in open waters.

 

Then the next game (or the one after that) I played without caring for the names of the players. Once I got sunk, I checked what an idiot is doing (so I died before him) and noticed the SAME name again and I was like "you gotta be kidding me". Then I checked the stats and everything was clear. Especially when he kept jumping into the next battle. For the rest of the day. And night. And this morning. And till the end of times.

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39 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

which is why the account shows a recent creation but may have years spent on a different server

Shouldnt all his ships that he owned on transfer be as new on 1st account day in new server then?

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29 minutes ago, DariusJacek said:

Tinfoil hat on: That's why WG will tolerate those players as they will fill the queue making waiting time for us humans shorter, also potatoes can kill them and feel good about 35 ojro investment into a new shiny Tirpitz. :cap_haloween:

*keeps tinfoil hat on*

 

Maybe those bots are created by WG to make it look like there are more players online than there actually are, especially during those 'low-activity' hours... :cap_hmm:

 

That's why they do nothing about it and let "the system take care of them" while convincing us that those accounts are perfectly normal which is quite disappointing TBH.

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