Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
Sir_Sinksalot

Graf Spee For OPs. A Sound Investment?

33 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Players
565 posts
3,540 battles

Hi guys.

 

I see this ship fairly often in Ops, my most favorite game mode offering and I ask you to share with me your knowledge about this ship. At a glance it looks like some sort of heavy cruiser/ battleship hybrid but does it get the best of both or actually suffer from the worst of both classes? 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CAIN]
Players
4,510 posts
19,047 battles

I used her only in Aegis, and she can be a beast there. 

Her heavy, decently fast reloading guns devastate the cruisers in this op and can hurt the BBs. 

 

But i prefer Pensacola, Nürnberg and Leander for this OP (DPM/ Heavy US AP). 

 

I don’t play the other TVI ops that often or at all, so I can’t say how Graf Spee would perform there. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,055 posts
12,093 battles

I would argue the reason youll see it in ops a lot is that many ppl who have it dont play it too much. Ops is a fine opportunity to drag it from under the dust. Buy it for ops? I really wouldnt. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SM0KE]
Players
5,785 posts
14,064 battles
54 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

I ask you to share with me your knowledge about this ship.

Sub-average player's perspective - she's very good for Ops (although I don't have enough data to comment on Newport):

  • She's a lot like a stumpy BB that occupies a cruiser slot.
  • Has a heal, which I view as extremely useful in Ops.
  • The guns are worthwhile, although she doesn't have the volume of fire that other cruisers do, but shells can do a lot of damage if/when they hit (they're basically modest BB guns, including the flaky accuracy).
  • Torps are very handy now and again, and the secondaries are a giggle with the right captain build (I don't give her any secondary upgrades - I run a pretty standard upgrade set) - I usually take a semi-manly BB captain from Fat Freddy, although a more conservative one is probably optimal.
  • Can mount hydro, which is very helpful for the 'torp soup' bits of some Ops (or DefAA, which is less useful).
  • Optional 'National' permaflage available for money, but does improve the earnings noticeably (but can't be mounted on the HSF version, should you get that) - see below.

image.thumb.png.b6dc87f16e128f2eb5b13b1e5d0db756.png

 

Overall, Graf Spee is perhaps my main 'go to' for T6 Ops; make of that what you will - it's fun, but I'm not a very good player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,000 posts
14,426 battles

I love her in co-op. But look at it this way:

 

28.5 knots, same speed as Izmail and slower than Normandie

9.5km firing in smoke detection, you'd have to be a long way back in the opening stage of Aegis

6x283mm main guns up to 16km range, if they all hit (unlikely thanks to rng) but good fire chance (20% base)

And usually you're going forward so can only can fire 3. Would take a lot of pre-planning to get the best dpm out of her (not impossible).

Great torps.

5.8km fully spec'd secondaries, forget it! 4.2km base, 5km if you use a captain with aft, but never worth losing the aiming module.

Has hydro but facing a DD alone wouldn't be smart.

 

Ultimately she just can't dish out the damage, which is what you want in a cruiser slot.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SM0KE]
Players
5,785 posts
14,064 battles
6 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Buy it for ops? I really wouldnt.

I think this may be good advice; not so much because she's awful in Ops (I would argue the reverse), but we don't know what WG have in store for Ops - many of us fear they're going to kill them off entirely - and there are lots of rather better ships for randoms at T6.

 

If you're going to buy something specifically for Ops, be mindful that Ops may well not be around for the long term - will you enjoy the ship in other modes? I actually do like Graf Spee but don't play her very often outside Ops, as I have a lot of other premiums that I enjoy more for that mode.

 

All personal opinion, of course.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[THESO]
Players
1,202 posts
15,789 battles

Graf Spee is not a bad choice. Most T6-cruisers are poorly armored and struggle to survive, especially in operations where no repair zone is offered. The GS is by no means a BB. It would be a mistake to think one can tank a lot in it, but it can take more punishment and that sometimes is a good thing. If you get a repair zone, you will only need the heal as a last resort. So, yes, GS is a good ship for operations.

 

Still I wouldn't buy it just for that reason. if the question is to have a good ship for operations in general and not just a good cruiser, I like the Warspite a lot. Also, operations often require to quickly reposition, so Normandie is a good choice. The Graf Spee also has some shortcomings, which are the lack of precision and the few guns and low dpm. It is not suited to defend yourself and team mates against DDs. For some operations, a few fast firing guns are all you need. Especially when facing low tier bots, the 203mm guns often get citadel hits, where anything bigger will just overpen. I had battles in Aegis, where my cruisers got all the enemies and my BB guns just hit the ships seconds after they had been destroyed, doing as little as 35k damage.

 

Graf Spee is certainly an interesting ship. I was happy, when i got her in a container once. Still i don't play her too often, since that mix of BB and cruiser sometimes just is the wrong recipe.

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,918 posts

Love the ship. You sail it and you feel you are going to carry the sheet out of every game, even when you won't lol haha :D But still I can't praise her enough. It has flaws sure, but even the smallest of buffs will make her a beast ( i pray for one) which I think she is anyway. Perhaps a bit more range in the secs? just saying. I use the longer hydro upgrade on her and I kill dds just fine :D

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
10,086 posts
11,852 battles
8 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Hi guys.

 

I see this ship fairly often in Ops, my most favorite game mode offering and I ask you to share with me your knowledge about this ship. At a glance it looks like some sort of heavy cruiser/ battleship hybrid but does it get the best of both or actually suffer from the worst of both classes? 

Spee, like most Large Cruisers suffers the worst from both worlds.

 

In Spee case, above average hp and heal are nice, but 19/25mm plating everywhere means you soak HE like a sponge. Guns are... difficult to elaborate would be a mild description. Worse accuracy than cruiser, only 6 guns with 20s reload. And while they can overmatch up to 19mm platings, they NEED to meet at least 47mm of effective thickness to actually arm the fuse. Easier said than done against tier 3-5 opponents

 

On opposite, AP penetration is inadequate to reliably penetrate BB main belts while 0.01s fuse time means you will have somewhat hard time scoring citadels on anything with layered armor. HE is laughably bad German style

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UAC]
Players
659 posts
2,215 battles
8 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Hi guys.

 

I see this ship fairly often in Ops, my most favorite game mode offering and I ask you to share with me your knowledge about this ship. At a glance it looks like some sort of heavy cruiser/ battleship hybrid but does it get the best of both or actually suffer from the worst of both classes? 

I have her and while I'm good with her, I'd say she got worst of both worlds not best.

She eats citadels like birthday cake and that dpm and gun positioning means you need to give broadside to shoot all guns and....

 

No, not something I would pay for (now that I know).

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,119 posts
22,247 battles

I would say Graf Spee is too slow and there are ship with better firepower for her tier, but I don't play Ops much to know if she has a niche.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BFS]
Beta Tester
1,897 posts
12,654 battles

I'd say there are better cruisers for operations - ideally ones with a higher rate of fire.

 

However, as has already been mentioned in this thread I'd be wary of spending money or dubloons for any ship specifically for operations.   WG don't really support these - in fact they seem to be trying to make them less attractive which will then match their stated 'operations are not popular with the player base'.   They removed a number of operations for the carrier rework - while some have returned others (Cherry Blossum and the Dunkirk based one have yet to return).   It also appears that Aegis will return with lower rewards (it's only been out for a short period due to the AI pathfinding bug).

 

There are a few threads on operations to have a look at;

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/132663-narai-will-return-in-093-but-the-bxp-payout-has-been-neutered/

 

 

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[FABER]
[FABER]
Players
617 posts
6,307 battles

Don't buy anything for Ops, they will probably be gradually removed or made not worth to be played in terms of XP gains... 

  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[FABER]
[FABER]
Players
617 posts
6,307 battles

 

5 minuti fa, BrusilovX ha scritto:

(it's only been out for a short period due to the AI pathfinding bug).

 

 

Bug not fixed however, while XP gains have mysteriously been nerfed :Smile_trollface:

  • Cool 2
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BFS]
Beta Tester
1,897 posts
12,654 battles
1 minute ago, Bics93 said:

 

 

Bug not fixed however, while XP gains have mysteriously been nerfed :Smile_trollface:

Yes, I rather foolishly posted here after seeing the title of the thread you posted.   I've read it since then.

 

If they put the operation back in it's broken state at least leave the rewards alone until it's fixed (not that I think the rewards should be nerfed in the first place).

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[XTREM]
Players
1,798 posts
14,043 battles

I wouldn't buy a ship with OPs in mind/just for OPs. 

 

Just buy it if it interests you from a historical, collector, and/or gameplay perspective, the latter you should do some research on. 

  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
747 posts

I would have to come down on the side of no, based on the fact that I don't think she has the armour to tank between reloads in most Ops or the DPM to be a useful addition to the team.

 

Aegis: probably the easiest Op right now, but as has been mentioned above you have to be very careful if you want to make the most out of the smokescreen at the start and either very good or very lucky to do an appreciable amount of damage compared to the rest of your team (assuming you don't get singled out and burned down by the NW cruiser swarm at the start, which can happen to much tougher ships).

 

KW: you likely won't get many kills on the shore forts and installations while your higher-damage or faster-firing teammates hoover them up, and again once the reinforcement waves of enemies get in there might be too many targets for you to deal with.

 

RR: could be good, one place where the compromise cruiser-battleship attributes can work in your favour as due to all the cover on the map you're unlikely to be facing too many enemies at once and being nippier than most battleships is a plus; just don't try facing down solo the pair of destroyers that show up once the Raptor is underway (not fast-enough firing) or the clutch of battleships that show up at the end (too squishy).

 

NEWPOOOOOOOORRRRRT: Hahaha, nice one, everyone knows to skip Newport week! *Ahem* Seriously though, way too many targets for too few guns, and the rest of the team is absolutely relying on you to hold up your end of the DPM to boot, so I don't think Spee would be much use.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
5,979 posts
11,601 battles
10 hours ago, Verblonde said:

I think this may be good advice; not so much because she's awful in Ops (I would argue the reverse), but we don't know what WG have in store for Ops - many of us fear they're going to kill them off entirely - and there are lots of rather better ships for randoms at T6.

 

If you're going to buy something specifically for Ops, be mindful that Ops may well not be around for the long term - will you enjoy the ship in other modes? I actually do like Graf Spee but don't play her very often outside Ops, as I have a lot of other premiums that I enjoy more for that mode.

This basically sums up my opinion about this potential purchase @Sir_Sinksalot

 

Otoh though, as a tier 6 premium she shouldn't be that expensive anyway :Smile-_tongue:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
5,016 posts

The sad fact is that the Graf Spee while being an amazing historical ship....... is tricky IMO to play in WoWS and easily overshadowed by other cruisers. Wasn't the Cleveland once a tier 6 cruiser? I remember it as being one of the best choices for that tier unless I'm mistaken. Then they ruined it.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NECRO]
Players
1,584 posts

I like her 8km torps. WG leased her 2 or 3 times to me until I decided to buy her. Must have opened Pandora's box, because I have been targeted by saturation attacks with rental ships on my minor accounts ever since. Those are just from today:

trip.png

  • Cool 2
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SNUBS]
Players
95 posts
5 hours ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

The sad fact is that the Graf Spee while being an amazing historical ship....... is tricky IMO to play in WoWS and easily overshadowed by other cruisers. Wasn't the Cleveland once a tier 6 cruiser? I remember it as being one of the best choices for that tier unless I'm mistaken. Then they ruined it.


Cleveland was an absolute beast.
And a CV's worst nightmare.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
39 posts
10,670 battles

I have seen some players amazing operation  games with Graf Spee. Fo my self i cann not hit a thing with it & it's a shell magnet. I think molotov or de grasse are better suited for operations.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
412 posts
3,834 battles

Just tried GS in the current operation, Killer Whale. Too slow reload and turret traverse compared to the Nurnberg, which I usually use. By the time you're ready to fire at something, it's been bagged by one of the others in your team. However, I will persist because I barely use it at all in co-ops or randoms. If you don't have GS,  stick with Nurnberg.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[JRM]
Players
6,718 posts
19 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Hi guys.

 

I see this ship fairly often in Ops, my most favorite game mode offering and I ask you to share with me your knowledge about this ship. At a glance it looks like some sort of heavy cruiser/ battleship hybrid but does it get the best of both or actually suffer from the worst of both classes? 

No dont do it, ops are likely soon to be dead hence buying any ship for them solely is questionable and GS is not really good for ops anyhow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[O-R-P]
Players
2,237 posts
21,346 battles

I got literally all TVI tech tree and premium ( with exception of Admiral Makarov and HSF Graf Spee ) and I would say that as a collector and big fan of OP's that Graf Spee is ok ship for this mode but her dispertion of Main Guns could troll very much. I would rather say that HSF version is more interesting due to possibility of training IJN capitains ( not sure if only anime capitains ) There are better ships - ofc this is not actual if Graf Spee is your favourite ship from RL history in example.

 

If You looking for nice premium for OP's I would rather reccomend Perth, Huang He, London or Molotov - the wandering smoke of first two is very nice and Leander from tech tree ships. Huang He is not very touched by IFHE nerf due to fact that her AP are very strong. In current situation when OP's are systematicly destroyed I would honestly discouraged You from any spendings - if You REALLY want TVI premium use coupons for doobloon ships to save as many as possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×