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loppantorkel

Pan Euro dd builds

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I only have Visby so far, but I'm not sure what kind of builds are viable or most effective.

 

Gun dpm is the most obvious, but could torp build be a good alternative? What's your take? Tried anything different?

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I built mine for torpedoes.

 

No smoke means using guns is chancy, and the reload and arcs isn't all that great to begin with. 

 

Using my 19 point blysca captain works, but i think i respecced. I can't remember the exact build and whether I included EM for quality of life, but I think I went CE and SE, SI and TAE with LS and AR as two pointers.

 

Some will probably make a case for RPF too.

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24 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

I built mine for torpedoes.

 

No smoke means using guns is chancy, and the reload and arcs isn't all that great to begin with. 

 

can't remember the exact build and whether I included EM for quality of life, but I think I went CE and SE, SI and TAE with LS and AR as two pointers.

Although, the speed, manoeuvrability  (why is it spelled like that :Smile-angry:) and heal does set it up for gun-boating. I've noticed it sets fire quite well and this coupled with the fast moving and fast reloading, but very low damage torps, could perhaps make for a fire-flood thingy. Not sure if it's worth to set it up for such a thing. Only thing would be taking DE instead of something...

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I took PM-LS-BFT/SE-CE/AFT on Visby, Vasteras and Skane I drove so far, first two had anti det module and gun traverse module and the Skane torp acceleration module instead of the turret traverse, didnt bother stacking the rest of the modules for those 3 dds, when I finish my cap last 2 points will likely go to AR and this cap will go to Halland/Friesland

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48 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

I only have Visby so far, but I'm not sure what kind of builds are viable or most effective.

 

Gun dpm is the most obvious, but could torp build be a good alternative? What's your take? Tried anything different?

Straight up torpedoboat build here, complete with the new torpedo module in slot 3.

 

Only tried it out once so far, in the Visby. Seems to work though.

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I started with the Visby and the 3 point captain that WG gave me with the ship... So this topic will be useful for me...:cap_like:

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Building these for guns isn't really viable IMO, they make terrible open water gunboats (slow, short range, mediocre HP pool) and you can't smoke up to shoot either. Torp build would be better, especially on the higher tiers, but I think I'd rather build for neither and go with the situational awareness build instead - PM + LS & AR + SI & SE + CE & RPF. At higher tiers these things are really slow and you have no smoke to escape with, so situational awareness becomes really important to avoid getting caught.

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2 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

Although, the speed, manoeuvrability  (why is it spelled like that :Smile-angry:) and heal does set it up for gun-boating. I've noticed it sets fire quite well and this coupled with the fast moving and fast reloading, but very low damage torps, could perhaps make for a fire-flood thingy. Not sure if it's worth to set it up for such a thing. Only thing would be taking DE instead of something...

If going DE, you should try the PanEU captain with improved SE and DE. I know i've got him tucked away somewhere, will probably put him on the tier 6 when  i get it.

 

The guns didnt impress me much except for DD work. Might start fires, but the DD is slow and cant dodge very well.

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Im gonna use my friesland captain, which is obviously a gunboating captain. Will run torp speed module, but probs mb3 on tier ix/x should i ever get there

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Västerås w two turrets backfiring can probably be rather good in a kiting role, I have been playing very opportuinistic in the Östergötland but that is the only ship that I have played in random and its just 1 game so my reasoning is more theorethical. But i have played them a lot in coop and you can at least get a feel for angles and guns. This due to I have no elite XP for the Swe DDs and managed to get enough for Östergötland yesterday so I could start that ship in a random game (By elite xp-ing to 10). Played very carefully and tried to manouver to not be threatened by too many ships. Had all my damage vs DDs so I probably got an ideal game. 

 

All the others from T5-8 I am still at 4-6.

 

But I chose SE as first 3 p skill. I do not feel confident with RPF so I will probably take more 3 p skills, BFT and Torp. As I am from Sweden I probably in the long run will drive up some captains to high points but 10 is the norm on mid tiers. Higher up depends on how they feel in random, if I like them enough.  Sadly it is polish captains which I will not place omn the Swedish DDs but put into reserve until other PE lines comes, only on Småland I will use it to gather points for that release in the future. 

 

I think I will try both more gun or torp oriented builds and I think you can bias them for both and get good resullts. If you are a good DD player (which I do not at all pretend to be, but at least experienced) this line is difficult without the smoke and with the anti-yolo torps probably quite rewarding in chosing the right moment. They are probably not the easiest to balance, if one has followed the dev blog and all the small tweaks in gun reload and cponcealment and have tried them out I can understand them, if the reload and ce is too good they might be far too strong. I rather have better ce than better gun reload. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

I only have Visby so far, but I'm not sure what kind of builds are viable or most effective.

 

Gun dpm is the most obvious, but could torp build be a good alternative? What's your take? Tried anything different?

What I have gathered so far gun builds can be a bit viable on some tiers but when you reach T9-10 you are probably better of going torp builds with torp reload acc, SE and CE due to torps being a more efficiant playstyle then gunboating in a DD that cant disengage.

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FWIW I seem to have acquired T5-8 (although no games yet with T8 as only got it last thing last night), and I'm thinking along the following lines at the moment:

  • The torps seem to be at the heart of a lot of what you're trying to do to the enemy, especially when they start to get fast at T7; with this in mind, I've taken the 'zoomy torps' upgrade on all of them so far.
  • I tend to almost never stop moving (no smoke to hide in), so have taken rudder shift over acceleration.
  • In terms of the captains (I have several at or around 13 points, rather than one good one, having not played Blysk etc. enough for that), the first ten points is the usual DD build, and after that, I've gone with BFT to prop up the guns and AA (the latter being better than average, I think, and I've given several same tier or lower CVs a nasty shock already). Next in line will be SI (for the extra heal), but I'm not certain this is the right way around; perhaps SI should be before BFT - I've gone with BFT then SI because I often don't live long enough (or take the right damage) to make full use of all heal charges, but I do make use of the guns essentially every battle.
  • You could make a case for TAE in place of/before BFT, if you want to go 'full torp'; I haven't because the torp reload is pretty respectable anyway, and I prefer not to have all my eggs in one basket. The wiki thinks TA is a very good choice; I think I won't (at least not initially), as 12 km range is nice to have with all the radar about, plus the torps are not exactly slow anyway (with 'zoomy torps' fitted).

Ultimately, I think I'll probably end up with the following (i.e. a pretty generalist build for hybrid DDs):

 

image.thumb.png.394c957dd62af87eaf4c2b9dcaa71d1d.png

 

As always, that's assuming a pretty mediocre player (me), playing against the typical opposition you find in randoms.

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3 hours ago, Verblonde said:

 

image.thumb.png.394c957dd62af87eaf4c2b9dcaa71d1d.png

 

 

Most I would agree with butt I would definatly change one of the T3 and T1 skills for RPF/Radio location instead. Probably I would loose Superintendent and "flash one" at T1 for RPF/RL and I would choose torp relaod before BFT.

 

My reasoning behind this is in Swedish DDs you will live or die by if you can controll the engagements and not suddenly get surprised spotted by enemy DD in front of half the red team since you cant smoke up and disengage, that could be a death sentence.

So you want to use RL/RPF to know where the enemy DDs/closest targets are, you also want to know where in a cap a DDs is to torp him.

 

Torp reload before BFT since you cant really gunboat, because you cant disengage. So you want to focus on torpspam, specially on the T9-10.

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25 minutes ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

Most I would agree with butt I would definatly change one of the T3 and T1 skills for RPF/Radio location instead. Probably I would loose Superintendent and "flash one" at T1 for RPF/RL and I would choose torp relaod before BFT.

I have to admit I am thinking almost exactly along these lines for the T8, as that's the point where torp reload goes over a minute, and same tier DDs start to horribly outspot you.

 

I am torn about ditching BFT too though, as the ship itself already has torp focused upgrades, and with BFT your AA against a typical CV player (up to T8 anyway, haven't faced T10 yet) seems to be sufficient to encourage them to go elsewhere a lot of the time...

 

Whilst the things are acting as premiums, for captain purposes, I may just try both approaches and see which I end up preferring...

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The issue with rpf is that you want it to hunt dds, but you're also trading away your gun dpm for it, which I'm not sure is a good idea. If you're not going for dd hunting with guns, you're often better off without rpf imo. So, while I'd like rpf on my Pan EU dds, I'm not sure it's worth the trade-offs.

 

As people above already has brought up - it might be tough to gun boat at higher tiers due to the lack of smoke and quick disengagement. You'll likely trade more health than you can deal even when specced into full gun build.

 

These dds seem kind of tricky to play and be effective in. They seem to be pretty situational. I'll have to see what to make of them when I get them...

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2 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

The issue with rpf is that you want it to hunt dds, but you're also trading away your gun dpm for it, which I'm not sure is a good idea.

This is my dilemma; I'm getting the impression that these are boats where you wish you had thirty-odd captain points available...!

 

I have a suspicion that the answer may vary a bit with tier: 5-7 need the guns now and again, especially 5-6 as their torps aren't rocket propelled; you're also often not facing excessively scary opponents yet (although Kami sisters are a bugger to deal with, but that's hardly unique to Pan-EU). Tier 8 (and up? don't have any of the T9-10 yet) may be where one has to try something else. More testing is required, and it's a real shame that WG had an attack of the stingy w4nkers when it came to the free captain respec...!

 

I should perhaps mention that I'm tending to build for a typical random opponent, rather than for typical (scary) forum players; if I run into any of the latter, I'm Doomed, pretty much regardless. Same thing for CVs - a good one will take you to the cleaners, but a typical one will have to work for it, and I've made one or two seriously regret coming after me (I assume the latter had only just got the ships or similar).

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5 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

The issue with rpf is that you want it to hunt dds, but you're also trading away your gun dpm for it, which I'm not sure is a good idea. If you're not going for dd hunting with guns, you're often better off without rpf imo. So, while I'd like rpf on my Pan EU dds, I'm not sure it's worth the trade-offs.

 

As people above already has brought up - it might be tough to gun boat at higher tiers due to the lack of smoke and quick disengagement. You'll likely trade more health than you can deal even when specced into full gun build.

 

These dds seem kind of tricky to play and be effective in. They seem to be pretty situational. I'll have to see what to make of them when I get them...

You can use RPF to hunt DD's, but it's equally useful (if not more useful) for telling you if there's a Cleveland hiding behind that island.

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13 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

The issue with rpf is that you want it to hunt dds, but you're also trading away your gun dpm for it, which I'm not sure is a good idea. If you're not going for dd hunting with guns, you're often better off without rpf imo. So, while I'd like rpf on my Pan EU dds, I'm not sure it's worth the trade-offs.

 

As people above already has brought up - it might be tough to gun boat at higher tiers due to the lack of smoke and quick disengagement. You'll likely trade more health than you can deal even when specced into full gun build.

 

These dds seem kind of tricky to play and be effective in. They seem to be pretty situational. I'll have to see what to make of them when I get them...

For me actually RPF has just as much use or even more on DDs im trying to avoid other DDs in, such as all IJN Torp destroyers, and its in that way I will use it on the Swedish DDs. I dont thing these has the tools to really hunt other DDs. They can defend themselves for a short while in a knife fight when surprise spotted by DDs but I dont think you should seek out other DDs to fight since you cant disengage if the opposition gets to tough.

 

So I would use RPF on the swedes to know where the red DDs are so I can controll when I will face them or when I will avoid them, and also great at surprising DDs in caps with 80-90 knot torps.

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4 minutes ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

For me actually RPF has just as much use or even more on DDs im trying to avoid other DDs in, such as all IJN Torp destroyers, and its in that way I will use it on the Swedish DDs. I dont thing these has the tools to really hunt other DDs. They can defend themselves for a short while in a knife fight when surprise spotted by DDs but I dont think you should seek out other DDs to fight since you cant disengage if the opposition gets to tough.

 

So I would use RPF on the swedes to know where the red DDs are so I can controll when I will face them or when I will avoid them, and also great at surprising DDs in caps with 80-90 knot torps.

The thing about rpf is that it's double edged. You're telling the opponent you're there too. I agree that rpf has its usage, but also some drawback + it's a 4p skill. I don't use it on any of my IJN dds. For Random games I'd say it's better to go without. If in CBs or Ranked, you'd have to take it. At least for CBs. For Ranked probably most useful 5-1.

 

For Swedish dds, with the worse concealment, the, imo, less defined role and with those torps, I'd probably test rpf too. ...but it's a 4p skill and I kind of feel there's a risk you end up in the current YY/Z-52 situation where it's not quite good enough at any specific area to be a deciding factor in the games.

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The reason I want RPF on these has mainly to do with the slow speed on the Öland and up. Since you don't have smoke, if you get caught with your pants down in the higher tiers you're going to take a lot of punishment before you can get away, if you can even get away at all. You have little use for more DPM if you aren't alive to apply it.

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You can always saturate RPF with quickly reloading superfast Swedish fishsoup. There's now even a reason to use the dreaded wide spread!

 

Spoiler

Yes I know Swedish DDs have other nations "normal spread" as their "wide spread".

 

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Well the way I see it the torps on these DDs already reload pretty fast and dont need much help, guns that are still more consistent weapon system though are few and need all the help they can get PLUS bft and aft boost AA as well...

 

I mean when I get that polish super cap maybe I use him on Halland instead of the duch guy I am building now and use one I have on Ostergotland/Friesland instead of Halland...

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On 3/21/2020 at 7:58 PM, loppantorkel said:

I only have Visby so far, but I'm not sure what kind of builds are viable or most effective.

 

Gun dpm is the most obvious, but could torp build be a good alternative? What's your take? Tried anything different?

Played Smaland only so far but since it is very similar to the rest of the tree and Halland, the torpedo/utility build seems to be the best.  Guns do have a high dpm and are good for farming bigger ships but they absolutely lack the dpm and pen on most other dds which you will be facing quite often. 

 

Also, do not use torpedo acceleration on them, use the torpedo upgrade only instead.

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I've played both tier 5 and 6 now, and I'm leaning to a torp/utility build and equipped the new torp accel mod. The guns are too weak in both alpha and sustained damage. I see myself play rather defensively and do so quite successfully. This means scouting at 6 odd km ahead of your flank's main force, spot targets, launch torps and get in an occasional bait gunfight with enemy dd's just to keep them lit up for my team to take potshots at them. I usually disengage as the ships have no real staying power, but the heal gives them stamina. I use the heal backups to invoke small gunfights with enemy dd's and heal up any damage I received, while most enemy DD's can't, so these short trades favors me in wearing them down.

 

In short, I play these defensively and way less agressive then any of my other DD's including the IJN and french ones. It makes them a bit team reliant so you better do a damn good scouting and harassing job, and so far I had decent results with them.

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