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Kollektiv

Zao worth the Grind?

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Weekend Tester
48 posts
40 battles

Hi folks,

im grinding the Japanese Cruiser atm and thinking about the Zao and is she worth the Grind?

 

Compare to the Des Moines (which has a retarded rate of Fire) the Zao looks really bad compare to here.


I thought to balance it out the Zao has Torpedoes but as always the launcher are on a really bad position and is very situational.
She has less Hp and the Des Moines Maneuverability is better as well.

Someone maybe has experience and can tell me she is a good one or do i waste my time with the Zao?

Edited by Kollektiv

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Beta Tester
142 posts
995 battles

I had the Mogami when it was still T7 and loved it, bu that is not what you're asking of us.

She probably will belike the other Jap Cruisers, lower rof and lesser guns, but with a greater punch than the american counterparts.

 

 

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[FAM]
Alpha Tester
2,435 posts
7,140 battles

Not a single tier X cruiser is worth the effort since you are basically food for BBs no matter if you are tier VIII, IX or X.

 

It's particularly disgusting now since matches are full of BBs which will focus you since you are easy damage and kill.

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[OMNI]
[OMNI]
Alpha Tester
239 posts
8,484 battles

Nope. Had the Senjo in Alpha where she was actually better (Torpedoes had 20km range and were spotted later than they are now). She also had better concealment. 39k HP is too little (T6 CA / T4 BB) and the ROF is also bad. Also has worse AA than the Des Moines and the torpedoes can only be fired out of her behind. making them useless in a knife fight. Zao is also slower.

 

The ROF of the Zao has to be 7-7.5 RPM to be considered on par with the Des Moines and imho the torpedoes should be reverted back to the Long Lance Type 93. Ideally HP is also bumped to 45-50k. But all of this is wishful thinking. I'm hoping that once they get the mechanics in place, they start balancing things because at the moment there is no point to use anything other than DDs and BBs.

Edited by Zgicc

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[FAM]
Alpha Tester
2,435 posts
7,140 battles

Even DDs are pointless now with this turn circle buff to all BBs that make then behave like cruisers. Some BBs even turn better than CA of their same tier.

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[OMNI]
[OMNI]
Alpha Tester
239 posts
8,484 battles

Ehh yes and no, the turning rates are the characteristic of the lower tier US BBs.They're short and fat and this allows them to turn but be slower. I don't mind that too much.

 

What can be tweaked is the torpedo spotting distance and make it short. The skill of a good BB player should not be, "evade all the torpedoes" which at the moment is very easy to do, but to get hit by the least number of torpedoes possible. This would require quick thinking and would separate people who are tunnel visioned potatoes an the more alert intelligent player.

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Weekend Tester
48 posts
40 battles

Yeah I agree I had yesterday a really bad day with my Mogami get one shooted 3 Times...
and i don't know how u play effective every time I think that what I did in the battle a BS or DD could do better than cruiser.
The Cruiser has no Role where he is good at and that he fits perfectly especially the japan cruiser.
I find there are not that good at killing DDs they are not bad at it but its not a hard counter I can kill DDs with my BS as well and have a role in the game that I fit.
Many ppl say Cruiser are great for AA support but this is a game and i don't want to play my cruiser just to support a BBs and escort him and do nothing except killing planes with autoguns... thats no fun at all.

The new American BBs are the better Cruiser now i think cause u can brawl with them really well are mobile enough and take more the 1 torp or 3 hits from an enemy BS.

Yeah dogging Torps in a Cruiser is pretty easy but if hit 1 Torp my Mogami im crippled as [edited]and cant do crap the rest of the Game.

 

Edited by Kollektiv

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[SICK]
Weekend Tester
4,682 posts
9,234 battles

After having grinding it.....no.

 

Her guns are great. Tight spread, good range, good damage....

But what it doesn't say is that you need to be at max 70 degrees relative to the target to aim all 4 turrets, and that opens you up to good hits on your (massive) citadel from the side.

So you can only safely use half your guns at once.

AA is meh, torpedoes worthless seeing as they have bad angles of fire and such low range that being able to use them means certain death.

She's huge and not particularly agile, so forget about dodging at under 15km.

 

She's a ship with multiple personnality disorder.

Her guns, size, speed and maneuverability say long range, but her torps say close range.

You sacrifice a lot in IJN cruisers in order to have torpedoes, and sometimes it's worth it, like on the Ibuki.

As an added bonus, to amplify your range, you need to get range and accuracy equipment, so you find yourself with very lacking AA that opens fire at low range (4.5km on DP guns, 3.1km with the classic 25mm). High tier CVs can operate around you with ease.

 

 

 

But in this case, your sacrifice is in vain, because you'll never, ever use the torpedoes.

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Weekend Tester
48 posts
40 battles

[edited]

 

im already at t8 ...

should i switch to US Cruiser or hope that they buff her...

Edited by BigBadVuk
This post has been edited by a member of the Moderation Team, due to inappropriate content.

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Weekend Tester
1,668 posts
32 battles

[edited]

 

im already at t8 ...

should i switch to US Cruiser or hope that they buff her...

 

they buffed her already

 

Edited by BigBadVuk

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[CMP]
Weekend Tester
441 posts
3,818 battles

I feel she's a pretty decent opponent since the last patch (I drive a Des Moines, which is still a beast)

My DM wins most 1 vs 1 engagements I've had against Zao's, but I also win most 1 vs 1 against other DM's so far :)

 

So far I've had one fight against a Zoa that I was definitely loosing, and in that fight the enemy used his superior stealth and spotting to full effect. He kept spotting me, but stayed just outside my spotting range, and fired at me whenever he had cover coming up ( so I couldn't shoot back) or whenever I turned my guns towards another target. This basically removed my superior rate of fire from the equation. 

Just don't try to go broadside to broadside with a DM and echange shots ... cause you ill loose those.

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Weekend Tester
48 posts
40 battles

I feel she's a pretty decent opponent since the last patch (I drive a Des Moines, which is still a beast)

My DM wins most 1 vs 1 engagements I've had against Zao's, but I also win most 1 vs 1 against other DM's so far :)

 

So far I've had one fight against a Zoa that I was definitely loosing, and in that fight the enemy used his superior stealth and spotting to full effect. He kept spotting me, but stayed just outside my spotting range, and fired at me whenever he had cover coming up ( so I couldn't shoot back) or whenever I turned my guns towards another target. This basically removed my superior rate of fire from the equation. 

Just don't try to go broadside to broadside with a DM and echange shots ... cause you ill loose those.

 

The problem is all stats say better play DM cause she is almost better in everything than the Zao and torps didn't compare that at all.
Why the [edited]have the torps only 8km range when u have to play that ship as a glass cannon cause she cants take a hit at all and u can't ambush with her like a DD.
Then give me better the stats from the DM and take my torps away cause they are useless (short range / angle to fire is shitty as [edited]) and after the patch everything can doge torps without any skill needed.

Kind of frustrating to know that you're T10 will be useless and under performs in every way against every class cause I don't thing the Zao can something that a DD a BBs or the DM could do better.

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[OMNI]
[OMNI]
Alpha Tester
239 posts
8,484 battles

Stat

Senjo/Zao Des Moines
HP 45k 50k
Guns 4x3 3x3
RPM 4.9 10
Effective RPM 58.8 90
Range 16.2km 15.8km
Speed 31kn 33kn
Concealment 12.6km 13.9km
Turning Radius 840m 770m
Max AA DPS 6130 DPS@3.1km 2288 DPS@2.1km
AA Long Range DPS 288 DPS@4.5km 1568 DPS@5.7km
Torpedoes Yes No
Torpedo Range 8.0km /

Here we can see that the Zao loses to the Des Moines in every single aspect except;

  • Concealment - big whoop, concealment on a massive slow CA (Concealment builds used to work to a certain extent in Alpha and I still take Concealment bonuses on my IJN Cruisers but its not much of a gamechanger anyway)
  • AA @ 3.1km which is 1km out from planes dropping loads on you
  • And the fact that the Zao has torpedoes which she can only shoot out of her behind at a stupid angle, after stupidly getting into an <8km knife fight while not being able to shoot back at the threat with her guns because of her shitty arc of fire of her turrets.
  • Use the Zao as close BB AA support? 3.1km is essentially inside your ally. And you can't sit in front of them or you'll be the one tanking all the hits.

The result of this is that the Zao;

  • Cannot kill DDs as well as the Des Moines
  • Cannot kill CAs as well as the Des Moines
  • Cannot kill BBs as well as the Des Moines
  • Is less effective than the Des Moines in the AA role
  • Is slower and less maneuverable than the Des Moines making it less capable at chasing

 

The Zao needs;

  • An RPM buff, 7-7.5 RPM. 7.5 would put it on par with the Des Moines in terms of DPM which still would put the Zao at a disadvantage (Fire rate is king atm and allows cruisers to do their anti-DD job better) but considering the Des Moines doesn't get torps we'll let that one slide.
  • Better torps. I don't know why the hell WG removed the Long Lance Type 93 from the Senjo especially when it had just 39k hp. With the new torp spotting mechanics these torps are useless due to the massive distance at which they get spotted from anyway.
Edited by Zgicc
  • Cool 1

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Alpha Tester
45 posts
13,572 battles

I have both and much prefer the Zao. I find the DM a very weak ship but not as weak as the Z.The Z for me handles hits better than the DM. I love it.Then again I loved it as the Senjo more in Alpha where as I find the DM the same.Torps need a little increase because 8km is too little,Well worth the grind m8 :great:

 

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