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Captain_Edwards

HE ammo - far too effective

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Beta Tester
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Title says it all really, HE ammo atm is just far far too effective. A few savlos from a DD can nail a BB for several thousands of damage at a time, but AP dings off and does little damage. CA now are "piggy in the middle", with DD able to pop them in a handfull of shots and BB able to pop them in a handfull of shots. Methinks CA needs another buff and HE ammo needs a nerf.

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[PRAVD]
Community Contributor
1,828 posts
7,180 battles

Title says it all really, HE ammo atm is just far far too effective. A few savlos from a DD can nail a BB for several thousands of damage at a time, but AP dings off and does little damage. CA now are "piggy in the middle", with DD able to pop them in a handfull of shots and BB able to pop them in a handfull of shots. Methinks CA needs another buff and HE ammo needs a nerf.

 

But it was exactly like this before patch too. A DD shooting a CA could consistently hit 2k-4k volleys. Especially the easier to hit CAs. Hell, a DD would consistently hit 2k-4k even on battleships with AP before patch.

 

The difference probably is that you had to actually aim on the right parts of the ship (not straight on the middle) to get that kind of damage before, whereas now you just target the super structure.

 

But, I don't really know if it's problematic or not since I haven't played DDs or CAs really after the patch - played like ~40 CV games instead.

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Beta Tester
1,151 posts

That's the thing though is that its not 2-4k a hit, its more like 5k+ per hit with HE, plus fire chance and plus module destruction. Basically armour is useless against HE, it doesn't provide protection against it. If an HE round strikes, its more damage than an AP round unless the AP can penetrate the hull. So effectively all you do is shoot HE and you can nail anything regardless of its armour or HP pool.

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[STGGC]
Beta Tester
173 posts
829 battles

That's the thing though is that its not 2-4k a hit, its more like 5k+ per hit with HE, plus fire chance and plus module destruction. Basically armour is useless against HE, it doesn't provide protection against it. If an HE round strikes, its more damage than an AP round unless the AP can penetrate the hull. So effectively all you do is shoot HE and you can nail anything regardless of its armour or HP pool.

 

While I think the AP rounds make sense that they do not damage unless they penetrate, HE actually deals an insane amount of damage plus you have that fire chance. If you've got 2 fires going on you, and your repair is down, you're going to suffer the equivalent of a single heavy damage round. 

 

While this is somewhat weird, i believe it's WG's way of balancing cruisers. Contrary to how most people seem to think CAs are now nowhere to be seen, CAs have the highest ROF, and can make use of HE much better than any ship, and can take return fire, making it balanced. It's only when a fast firing DD lays the hurt on you take makes less sense. That's one that constantly makes me go: How are you doing that!! Stahp!!!

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[REKT]
Beta Tester
318 posts
4,041 battles

Op are you crazy? Yes HE is too powerfull now but as it is atm i dare say that cruisers have benefitted the most with the new HE shells. Allot easier now to kill a BB in a cruise and DD's as well.

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Weekend Tester
1,668 posts
32 battles

Wg wanted to make the shells more equal so people would switch between them

 

All they achieved is making the preferred shell the HE 

They simply over-buffed it way to much

 

I have no idea what they tried to achieve with this patch, because they essentially changed nothing

 

CAs and CVs are still useless, BBs are still fragile, just not against AP now, Torpedoes are still ineffective due to the turning radius buff

 

Is this why we needed a public test?

Seriously just tell us that "Here, this is our idea what do you think?"

Instead of making this whole testing thing with the public test when they clearly achieved nothing by it.

 

They need to nerf HE to some degree- making it less effective against heavily armored targets-DDs pulling half your health off with HE is not nice

And Buff the AP somewhat like really do something about it, I lost in my Pensacola against an HE shooting Omaha wtf..I should have rekt him

Nerf The AA somewhat and Buff CVs - to finally have a hard counter against the god damn battleship spam

Having DD like turn radius is nice on the CAs, but rather than nerf it ,make the torpedoes more invisible 

And For the Love Of God nerf the god damn Myoko and Buff the Mogami what the hell are you drinking

I'm okay with having accurate BBs, but then GIVE US A GOD DAMN CLASS THAT CAN COUNTER THEM 

 

Seriously Wargaming I'm okay with beta-testing stuff, but then do not give us this public test BS to delay the patch when you didn't noticed these god damn mistakes

If you want me to test stuff them give me the stuff that needs testing instead of making it look like it is already "launch ready" with this public testing BS

 

Heck, What the Hecking Heck is with this patch

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Alpha Tester
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The difference probably is that you had to actually aim on the right parts of the ship (not straight on the middle) to get that kind of damage before, whereas now you just target the super structure.

 

Before you just had to hit the hull, DD spam was atrocious, fortunately not very many ppl knew of this.

 

That's the thing though is that its not 2-4k a hit, its more like 5k+ per hit with HE, plus fire chance and plus module destruction. Basically armour is useless against HE, it doesn't provide protection against it. If an HE round strikes, its more damage than an AP round unless the AP can penetrate the hull. So effectively all you do is shoot HE and you can nail anything regardless of its armour or HP pool.

 

So it is just as i was saying after i learned of patchnotes: all those eagerly awaited armor changes are for naught - just load HE now. It bring backs the good old alpha time when HE + Cleveland = win vs 3 BB's at the same time...

 

 

 BBs are still fragile, just not against AP now

 

I'm okay with having accurate BBs, but then GIVE US A GOD DAMN CLASS THAT CAN COUNTER THEM 

 

 

So BB's are now OP and UP at the same time? :amazed:

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Alpha Tester
176 posts
1,483 battles

My only real complaint is that BBs are way too accurate now. Their groupings are too small.

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Weekend Tester
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32 battles

So BB's are now OP and UP at the same time? :amazed:

I don't know

like  the balance between classes is a big mess

CAs are fragile as hell, yet they can kill BBs easily due to their HE salvos

DDs are a joke, mostly because torpedoes are much easier to avoid, and they get wrecked by 1 HE salvo, yet USN can spam HE and wreck cruisers and even battleships

BBs can be killed by HE salvos from CAs and DDs, and they can one-salvo everything else, now they have cruiser like turn radius so they can avoid torpedoes with ease

CVs are near useless, USN barely have any offensive power, fighter load-out is a joke when a one tier higher CV just wipes the floor with you, and the dive bombers still do not do consistent enough damage to counter that

 

It's just

The whole thing is inconsistent

Like

I don't know It feels wrong, the whole god damn thing feels wrong

I did 7k HE salvos to battleships and received 10k damage from 1-2 hits

I saw my Pensacola getting absolutely wrecked by a Mahan firing HE

I killed 60-70% HP DDs with one HE salvo in the Pensacola

I turned in her so friggin' fast that the guns could not stay on target

I fired full salvos of 8" AP into an Aoba just to see doing 1k damage

I saw 0 damage AP salvos against BBs

 

The whole thing, This whole thing feels like a bad joke

Like a really bad joke

It's just

 

I just don't feel the guns, 203 mm guns seem like a bad joke

BBs are still dominating, yet I did 31k damage against them in 20 hits? like what?

 

I seriously cannot put it into words really well, but the whole thing is like every class feels wrong

 

I don't know what counters what, everything kills everything just as easily

Except CVs

 

It just feels so bad

 

 

Edited by Bl4ckh0g
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Beta Tester
1,160 posts
377 battles

HE dmg makes no sense.

 

It seems that 5 out of 10 salvos (with Yubaris HE, no matter how many actual hits and no matter what target I am shooting at - be it DD, CA or BB) does 957 dmg. 957, 957, 957, 400, 957, 1800, 957 .. all the time. I dont mind, shooting T5 BBs for 957 with each salvo, it is fine with me. But 3 games in a row, probably 50% of all hits were 957. Seems that some HE dmg calculator is broken, probability of getting same dmg this many times.. is zero.

 

 

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Weekend Tester
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Before crying about HE/AP ammo I believe that all of us should do more testing / getting used to new mechanics.

Previous model was extremely simple which basically meant like 95% AP and 5% HE (e.g. to set carriers on fire...) - which led to HE shells being basically useless and redundant.

Now it much more depends on angle of shells, armor composition, angle of armor at which shells hit...

Yesterday playing with Mogami, I had good results with AP against T7 and T8 cruisers at approx. 7-10km distances (compared to shooting HE at these targets), and HE shells against BBs at 10+km.

Only after we figure out in which circumstances does one type of shells performs better or worse, can we discuss OP or UP.

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[GN0ME]
Beta Tester
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What kind of person would think a DD's shell can penetrate a battleship?

 A few savlos from a DD can nail a BB for several thousands of damage at a time

uhm excuse me am i playing the wrong game?

DDs are a joke, mostly because torpedoes are much easier to avoid, and they get wrecked by 1 HE salvo, yet USN can spam HE and wreck cruisers and even battleships

oh now i see i was palying IJN DDs

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[GN0ME]
Beta Tester
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Only after we figure out in which circumstances does one type of shells performs better or worse, can we discuss OP or UP.

 

IJN DDs are UP

 

And you know whats more funny? MORE FUNNY? 3 torpedo hits guess how much these 3 combined? well sincei  m basicly whining it cant be good right? 126 damage 3 17900 damage potentail torpedo hit a new york class battleship and 3 of them combined did 126 damage

 

how it went? i fired torps from 7 km 6 torps launched 5 of them hit the guy had 25k hp and he took 5 torpedoes 2 did 25k damage the otehr 3 did 126 damage combined

what is this? i knew they were going to mess up IJN DDs but not this much

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[ST-EU]
Supertester
1,545 posts
469 battles

Tell that to my 37k citadel hits with AP shells >.>

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[LV-JS]
Beta Tester
75 posts
7,394 battles

Bl4ckh0g .. I can only agree with ya (+1 from me).

Yesterday it was a mess. Took out Amagi for a ride ... spot a DD, ok ... keep him at safe distance to avoid possible torp attaks... had a troll grin on my face since the new BB turn rate is insane :P

Some 20 sek later this little fella starts firing at me every 5-7sek a salvo... some 30-40sek later I was down to 70% HP and didnt know what the hell to do with those gazilion fires going on... I have only 1 repair every 1.40min, yet I`m getting put on fire every 5sek... cool.

It was even worse with my poor Baltimore :(

I know WG is trying ...but it doesnt work if You make one mess into another.

i hope next patch will be soon to fix some stats.

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Beta Tester
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I had some battles yesterday in my Sampson but i never sinked a st.louis with a HE salvo...:amazed:

 

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[REKT]
Beta Tester
318 posts
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If they halve the damage HE does now i think we are on the right track.

Edit: Mind you as a Cruiser player i love the way HE wrecks BB's though. But this just is too much

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Weekend Tester
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IJN DDs are UP

 

And you know whats more funny? MORE FUNNY? 3 torpedo hits guess how much these 3 combined? well sincei  m basicly whining it cant be good right? 126 damage 3 17900 damage potentail torpedo hit a new york class battleship and 3 of them combined did 126 damage

 

how it went? i fired torps from 7 km 6 torps launched 5 of them hit the guy had 25k hp and he took 5 torpedoes 2 did 25k damage the otehr 3 did 126 damage combined

what is this? i knew they were going to mess up IJN DDs but not this much

 

I understand that with new armor mechanics we have now anti torpedo bulges which are simulated so that could explain the major variance in damage (depending on where you hit and probably the angle).

To note, I did not play DDs yesterday so this is just a guess, but I have not noticed such low rolls when getting hit in CA or BB.

Also, displayed values may be messed up so next time if you can please post the after game report as it will provide the clear answer (at least on the average damage dealt).

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[BLUMR]
Beta Tester
815 posts
7,297 battles

 

I don't get some people. Right now the minimum damage of AP is about  1k instead of 300.  Just because HE is buffed doesn't mean AP doesn't work anymore . It's just lazy people that don't want to aim. 

HE is great help for CAs and DDs because AP doesn't work for them against BBs, but if you know where to aim AP is always better vs CAs and DDs.

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Weekend Tester
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Tell that to my 37k citadel hits with AP shells >.>

 

Oh yeah, I had citadel penetrations with AP myself as well...from 13-14 km

Yet, When I put a full broadside-10  203 mm Armor Piercing shells into the side of an Aoba, the guy receives 1-2 k damage.

Now Excuse Me, but AFAIK If an Armor Piercing shell penetrates more than around 20-25 mm armor the fuze starts and there'll be a big boom after 0.03-0.05 seconds

Does this mean that 10 rather big booms only scratched the internal painting of that cruiser?

Also Losing a fight against an Omaha when I'm firing 203 mm AP shells at him and he fires 152 mm HE shells back at me kind of seems fishy...

 

I am rather aggravated and disappointed with this patch really...

 

 

God damn Why am I even try to trust companies these days... Every time I put a little bit of trust into a game developer that they actually try to do something good, all they do is hurt me.....

Edited by Bl4ckh0g
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[GN0ME]
Beta Tester
5,339 posts
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I understand that with new armor mechanics we have now anti torpedo bulges which are simulated so that could explain the major variance in damage (depending on where you hit and probably the angle).

To note, I did not play DDs yesterday so this is just a guess, but I have not noticed such low rolls when getting hit in CA or BB.

Also, displayed values may be messed up so next time if you can please post the after game report as it will provide the clear answer (at least on the average damage dealt).

 

it was a new york class battleship tier 5 doesnt have torpedo protection so the first one hit towards the [edited]part of the ship next 2 hit the middle of the ship and next useless one hit the hull towards front and from the same part i guess the last one hit and did 13k something

 

i dont have screenshots i m sorry i had a terrible internet last night i wish there was a replay system downloaded but i dont have any proof other than he had 25k health and i had 5 torpedo hit i saw the first one do 12k something then i saw the other 3 hit and it said 126 damage the last one hit a bit later and said 13k damage

i still dont understand my torps at max can do 18k and 5 of them would be 90k at most how did those 3 torps do nothing :unsure:

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Beta Tester
2,351 posts

 

I don't get some people. Right now the minimum damage of AP is about  1k instead of 300.  Just because HE is buffed doesn't mean AP doesn't work anymore . It's just lazy people that don't want to aim. 

HE is great help for CAs and DDs because AP doesn't work for them against BBs, but if you know where to aim AP is always better vs CAs and DDs.

 

tell this to the Colorado guns...
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[BALAM]
Beta Tester
103 posts
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For those still thinks that HE are fine. Medium range gunnery duel against a New Orleans.

 

fx6pac.jpg

 

 

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