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Ishiro32

IJN CV Line impressions

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Alpha Tester
2,299 posts
1,085 battles

 

Patch 0.3.2 update:

Up to tier VIII whole line is simply not fun to play. Do not.

 

Hello all, seeing how Valkarianism is creating his impressions and review for US BBs, I thought to myself maybe I should create one for IJN carriers. I will try to copy his format as plagiarism is the best form of flattery. That means that I will slowly update this post with all my thoughts about each ship from that line I am sailing. Hopefully some of you will find it helpful and will survive my poor english skills.

Since most of that stuff is opinion based I will also tell something about myself. I bought access to CBT after I found out carrier gameplay videos. I used to play casually a lot of RTS games and Dota-like games, so all things considered I am biased towards that class. Please have that in mind when reading whatever I type. I am not the best CV player there is, but I think I am doing fairly well, I make mistakes from time to time as everyone. I usually play very agressive on all classes, CVs are no exception, that is why I was very excited for IJN line. For me most important is planning and reading the map and trying to find best solutions in the worst situations.

 

How I play:

I think this is important to note how I play all of those ships. All modules and captain skills for service times and I always use full strike decks. I was trying to use fighters, but found out that I prefer to have more firepower. Fighters just don't do much for me and they also are taking space in the hangar so less spare planes for attack. While on US ships I was using module to change rudder shift, on IJN I find the one that is making you accelerate faster more appealing.


Hosho: "Sexy but strict professor"

Pros:

+Stealthy

+Fast for a CV

+Slightly faster torps

+Really quick service times

+Stunning looks

Cons:

-Slugish turning

-Really slow TB wings

-Fragile planes

-Low air control

-not very friendly to new players (understatement of century)

 

Hosho was the first carrier comissioned and was one of the few that survived the war. She was often used as a training ship which is very fitting for the first CV for the japanese line, she is there to teach you, but be ready to work for your reward. What she wants to teach yout? One simple thing, the power of the air strike forces. What you need to remember? She is not Lagley who is fat and ugly, for hosho you must run some laps to get her attention, get to it!!

Sound the alarm, the squadrons of air snails are comming!

The first thing you will notice when starting your first game in Hosho is her TB wings. They are slow. They are the slowest plane in game. Your enemies will have a lot of time to begin their evading manuvers. Don't be afraid to change targets when you notice that your drop might be not optimal. That also means that you should not go around the map and fly to much. This is bad practice so stop it. Hosho doesn't like it. It also means that If fighter squadron will find you, you can say good bye to your TBs. Hosho requires you to watch the map, you will not encounter  many threats, but the ones that will catch you will be deadly, know their position.

Torps in the water!! 

This is just my feeling, but Hosho's torps seem faster and their activation time seem a bit longer. It is easier to drop torps from longer distances, because of it, but it might be tricky to perform a perfect drop where the activation time is just near the broadside. With a lot of the ships having pretty tight turning radiuses and planes beeing rather slow, you might have to find that your typical TB runs that you were used to from US carriers are not so fun.
There is also one thing regarding drops which will probably apply to all other IJN carriers. Manual drop for 4 bombers has a slight spread. This with the fact that while you have the same number of torps in the air you have different ammount of squadrons makes you not focus so much on those perfect pin point attacks. You can use two wings to try that pinpoint attack while the 3rd wing drop will be slightly off to account for unpredictable manuvers. Hosho is perfect ship to teach that.

 

"Shhh. Be vewy vewy quiet. I'm hunting wabbits"

Hosho is vewy vewy sneaky girl. With the surface detectability range of 7.9 km you might start to think more about how far enemies are and be closer to your team than ever, but be wary it is easier to find her using planes. With extremly low service times Hosho rewards players who want to go into the action. You will be invisible to the enemy BBs most of the time if sailing right. Considering her slow planes I can only say that she really want you to learn ranges and how to use them to your advantage. Just be wary of the DDs and enemy planes. 

 

Avanti

Hosho is a racing car when you compare it to the US BB line and her US counterpart. With the max speed of around 25 knots there are no problems with keeping up with the main formation and also she can put a distance when beeing chased by some ships on that tier. Intrestingly enough her speed plummets during the turns, 16 knots might not sound bad, but it is, turning radius is ok, but there is no way you can zigzag or dodge under heavy fire, you will end up just in the worse situation when you try something more complex than slight correction to one side. Hosho is strict, you have tools to hide, but when you fail at reading the map you get a smack with the ruler. 

 

Let's start from the top and I don't care that this is your first day. Get to work!

There is one thing about Hosho that I missed when I was playing her. I already mentioned that she is punishing bad habits, but this is a bit understatement. She requires you to know how to handle manual drops, she require you to know how to read map, she requires you to be pretty good in managing multiple units at the same time and ability to predict enemy movement. If you don't have basics Hosho might be a nightmare, as there is no safety net. I don't know what I would advice for the new CV players, looking at current US line it looks like a path through glass and at the same time IJN line is not newbie friendly.

 

Conclusion:

Hosho is great for training agresive CV playstyle. At lower tiers you don't have to think about AA all that much and only thing you need to think is map and enemies evading your strike wings. Fighter presence is minimal. She lacks punch a bit and even though her one fighter wing is great it can not compare to the air dominance of Lagley (at the moment of writing there is no point in even sorting with fighters). You need to hide, you need to run from fighters, you need to think about your engagement directions and if you fail you might end up without planes or just dead. She rewards good behavior and is punishing bad habits.

I had a lot of fun on her and I think she is great on this tier, but If you don't play her game she might be too much to handle for some players. Especially considering she might be your first CV. She is training ship, not a tutorial one.

 

 

Zuiho: "Mendokusai... strong but a bit troublesome girl"

Pros:

+Stealthy

+Faster than enemy BB

+Decent stock modules and planes

+DB wing gives much needed utility

Cons:

-Low air control

-Small hangar

-Small increase in power

 

Zuiho and Hosho both served as training ships and while Hosho was all about showing you what is the correct way to handle IJN carrier girls, Zuiho seems to be there to annoy you and remind you that you are not playing alone. Their playstyles are almost identical as is their equipment but the envrioment is starting to be a bit more hostile.

 

Now we fly!

You remember that air snails you had to deal with earlier? Scrap them. Right now TB have decent speed of 99 knots, that means that from the start you get better TBs that your USN friend from tier V. This is still not enough to run away from fighter squad, but because you spend less time in air your overall dps will go up, it will also mean that you will be able to get better angles and engages. This is biggest buff that you will see between Hosho and Zuiho.

Hey, maybe DB are not so bad

You know what you will also get? Pretty slick DB wing, much stronger than US one. With the max damage 5500 and 110 knots you might start thinking that maybe Dive bombers are not so bad. This wing is fast and it deals decent damage, it is also pretty reliable even on auto. Correctly used they will give you more scouting information and at the same time should bump your damage a bit.

 

Send second wave!!... wait... where are the planes?

Zuiho is one of the only three CVs currently in game that is not able to send full second wave in case all her planes will be wiped out. She can support 16 planes in the air, but her hangar have only place for 30. The other ships like that are Bogue and she has only 24 slots (she can support 18 planes in the air) and Indepedance (30 slots and 18 wings in the air), but the thing is... Zuiho isn't really good at keeping everyone alive, while Bongue is all about air control. It is very easy to loose your firepower on this girl and there is nothing more frustrating than sending squadrons that have only 2 planes.

 

Reminder... You are not playing alone

So far so good, why am I complaing, she looks like a Hosho just better. Well the thing about Hosho is that she is Tier IV, her enemies do not have AA, usually there are not a lot of fighters so there is no really much that is threatening to your planes. I was talking a lot about Bongue right? How she has worse DBs and TBs compared to you, she even has worse fighters, but the thing is... She has more planes and because of her poor damage performance (her upgraded DB have 3300 max damage) and the fact she can not sortie with 2 TB... Bongue right now is forced to play air superiority. She is there to hunt you. Additionally because MM is +-1 you have chance to fight against BBs and CAs who start to have pretty good AA. One tier higher and maps started to be much more dangerous and you might experience it the hard way.

 

Why won't you sink!... Oh... It sunk.

You did not receive straight up damage buff on your torpedos and a lot enemy ships got buff to the HP. This might result in feeling that you lack damage. There will be situations where you got 8 torps into the BB and it only took from him half hp (especially when you for example attack Fuso or New Mexico). Still, flooding damage is there to help you. I don't think this is a huge problem, at least not as big as AA and enemy fighters. Still for a lot of players it just doesn't feel right I imagine.

Conlusion:

Zuiho is by all means upgrade, her damage potential is much higher and she has more utility. But her small hangar mixed with the very hostile environment will result in a lot of stress and difficult situations. I do belive that good CV player should know how to handle situations like Zuiho vs Bongue + Indepedance on Ocean map, but at the same time even good CV player will struggle and will not have good time. I don't think this girl will have many fans and sadly it is not caused by her own power, but because US line looks how it looks and MM is not the best.
In the right conditions this ship was super fun and strong, but she made me afraid of pressing Battle On button.

 

Ryujo: "First good example of why flight deck chested girls are the best"

Pros:

+Finally torpedo damage buff

+Nice hangar

+Still stealthy

+no major problems

+thing of beauty

Cons:

-still this IJN CV so she has no air control

-Stock setup is garbage

-still she sails on the patch 0.3.1 waters

 

Finally Ryujo, the last light carrier (CVL) in the japenese line. And this is no training ship, this girl worked pretty hard during the war. She might be small but don't underestimate her. 

 

Ulitmate Light Carrier.

I am focusing on the fact that she is CVL, but why? Well because she is the last carrier in this line with good turning circle radius (600m) and high concealment. You will be detected by ships only when they close the distance to 9 km and from air it is 7.9 km. Just to give you example, next ship in the line, the first IJN big CV is seen from almost 12 km and first big USN CV has detectabily range of 14km! The higher in tiers you will go the bigger target you are starting to become. Also turnng circle radius let you manuver between islands pretty well as it did before.
 

No space on the flight deck? No worries, just put more planes on it and while we are at it, put more under it.

20 planes in air, 5 squadrons and overall 48 planes available. When she is waiting in port it looks ridiculous, you would not be able to put anything more on her. I guess when you are perfectly flat without bridge or island at the top you can send more planes one after another, but it still looks funny.
Anyway with that hangar upgrade you shouldn't have such a big problem with ending up without planes if you are careful. You still can not sucide them and it still not as much as big CVs take, but you should be fine. It is really great thing not to think about losing all aircraft after Hosho and Zuiho. 

 

Those torpedos seem a bit old... oh, look perfectly good air torps justy lying on the floor. About time.

You might want to buy upgarded torpedo ships with free exp, stock ones on this tier are simply worthless. With new torps the playing field against BBs should be evened up. They are not amazing, but they are doing their job. In Hosho and Zuiho I felt that my planes lacked a punch, while on Ryujo I didn't feel it that strong. There is really nothing much to add here, this buff was needed and it is here. You will still not one shot BBs easily, you either have to make a really good drop or force repair before it and let the flooding do the job.

 

Planes, planes, planes.

While we are on the topic of TBs, planes of course also received a buff to the speed. USN fighters usually have around 125 knots while your TBs have 107. This enough to do a quick strike if you distract weaker US CV players. How can you distract them? Well guess what? Upgraded DB have 123 knots, use them as bait, some players fall for it.

While we are at it, you have more wings in the air! In the full strike setup you will have 3 TB and 2 DB squads under your command and this second DB squad is once again very usefull. 20 planes while your US counterpart has only 18, doesn't it sound great?

 

USA is free!! 
Independance is intresting ship, so intresting that you might to know a thing or two about it. It's damage planes are not garbage! The same goes for ranger. US CV players are not forced to play figghter decks! On RJ there is a bigger chance that you will encounter full strike US CV skippers which is a good thing for you, because you will win damage race with them. Also If you meet a US strike CV, they might go for you. DBs are pretty good at hitting carriers and if you are not careful or if you press repair button too fast you migh be killed with just one good strike.

 

Conclusion:

I honestly can't say anything bad about RJ other than the fact she is forced to sail on the 0.3.1 patch seas. She has all the advantages of beeing light carrier and at the same time she doesn't have theirs drawbacks. She has good planes, she has a lot of them, she has utility, she has enough firepower, she is sneaky. She is very tactical and versitile. For me she is a keeper. I know how big CVs are performing and I know that from the next ship my gameplay style will change a bit. For all the players who will not keep her, she is a nice goodbye to the CVL class ships.


Flight deck chested girls are the best, now let's find out how her more developted friends are performing. (I think I will play some more on RJ, so next ship might come later)

 

Hiryu: "Slow and fragile dragon lady"

Pros:

+Huge hangar

+6 squadrons in the air

+Good max speed of ship

Cons:

-logistic of landing and starting are getting messy

-big turning radius

-vulnerable

-a bit too slow attack planes speed compared to enemy fighters

 

First big CV and she is heavy. She is one of the 6 japenese carriers that was attacking Pearl Harbor and she served well up until Midway where she was damaged beyond any chance of repair and was scutled. This ship require respect and attention both from the player that is her captain and by the enemy team as unattended this ship is a true beast.

 

Dragon and her wings

So let's start with the first change to you will notice when sorting with Hiryu. Her Hangar has place for 72 units and she is able to support 6 squadrons (24 units) in the air. That means she can send two full sucide waves and still have 100% firepower. This is huge as unless you encounter good US CV skipper with fighter setup you should never end up without planes. You would have to engage in a really bad ways to lose that many planes on just AA.
Let's also briefly talk about planes. You get another DB squadron and they receive buff to damage. To be honest this buff really doesn't make big difference but just having another squadron that is able to set ships on fire is nice. Other than that another batch of speed buffs and hp buffs, nothing really worth mentioning. Considering speeds of the Ranger and Lady Lexington fighter squads, your wings are slow. 

 

Let's play a game called "You are a traffic control operator, deal with it"

Okey so we now have 6 squadrons, that's great, we have so many possibilities. Imagine 24 planes attacking one ship, so powerfull. Wellll... yes, but after that you have to go back and you know what happens? You need to wait until all ships will land and then they start up again. This takes time, time that could be used better. I noticed that I started dividing my forces into two groups and engaging multiple targets at the same time. I was still often picking one target and throwing everything at it, but dependeding on the situation on the map I was chosing more spread out damage. Lone targets can be easily engaged with singular wings and that way I was lessening the trafic jam on the flight deck and in the end I was sending more planes than before. This decision made my attacks less impactful and I was mainly counting on the damage over time or my allies to deal the final blow, but there is that option and I think player himself should decide what is more optimal.
Sometimes it might be hectic when you send 2 DBs to attack CA who is chasing you, at the same time sending 1DB and 1 TB to finish of burning BB at other side of island and other 2TB are trying to catch off guard engaged with your allies BB.

 

Great at running, but sadly this dragon lady has astma.
I mentioned that Hiryu has problems with traffic right? Well this causes other thing. If you didn't know, the planes take longer to land on moving carrier, If you are stationary you are able to faster land all your wings. What does it mean? Hiryu has good speed, around 34 knots, but you will not be moving much. To lessen burden of landing planes you will be stoping and parking your CV from time to time. It is usefull on all CVs, but the thing is you're not CVL, stoping will take time, as will starting up again. Overall you will be much more stationary from now on.
When you will notice for example closing CA on you, that 34 knots speed is actually useful. You can harras him with planes while keeping a distance and receiving minimal damage.

 

Mythical beast are hunted, no exceptions.

Hiryu is pretty vulnerable to attacks. Ok, she has some hp and armor so she can take some hits, but if she meets Lady Lexington with her water gun, let's say your fire breath won't be all that threatening. In truth air superiority fighters will completly waste your squads in a matter of seconds and they are faster than what you have. Other than that there is another issue, I mentioned she is pretty stationary. Well she also has pretty big turning radius. If you become a target of the enemy CV, you have low chances to dodge torps, even with correct manuvers.

 

The power of the beast

So let's say there is no air superiority against you in game and you didn't stupid mistakes like me in a couple of games when you ended up alone against a DD in the 4th minute of the game, because you forgot to look at the freakin map or because you decided that showing yourself to the enemy CV is a great idea... what I wast talking about? Ok, so let's say that everything is ok and you are able to attack freely. You will rule over the map. The closer to you the more dengerous water will be. With short service times and 0/3/3 setup you will have more than enough firepower to win games for your team.

 

Conclusion:

I was complaining about Hiryu a lot, but I don't want you to think she is a bad ship. She is great and in the right hands and conditions will turn everything around herself into wildfire. She is hard countered by the high tiers fighter decks and you must be very careful about your position. She also starts to be a bit hectic to control at times. But she is the ship that will win games, she has more than enough power for that. 

 

Shokaku: "Kung Fu fighting mistress with more technique than power."

Pros:

+Decent speed on planes

+Decent AA

+more control over the map

Cons:

-No direct damage buffs or increase in the number of wings in the air

-She isn't all that different from Hiryu

 

Shokaku, one of the two Crane sisters, one of the six carriers that attacked Pearl Harbor. I must say I really love that this class is number VIII and not one of the Amagi class Carriers. Why? Well because Shokaku and her sister Zuikaku have a bit of history with Lady Lexington and Yorktown. Long story short, Lexington was destroyed and both japanese carriers had to retreat and because of it they were not able to support japanese fleet in the turning point of the whole war on pacific, midway. You might say I have vivid fantasy, but I can imagine those two ships being rivals and duking it out once again. 
 

Crane style, let's fly. Remember speed means more than power. 

The biggest difference between Hiryu and Shokaku is the speed of the TB and DB wings and this is the only damage buff you will get by unlocking this tier. Torpedos and Bombs are the same as they were on Hiryu. You also do not receive any upgrade on hangar capacity nor the number of available wings. Just looking at raw power in the air, Hiryu and Shokaku are equal. Speed buff will increase your damage per match as faster wings are more effective, but your enemies will have more hp and better AA so this just evens out. This might be dissapoining initially, but there is one big benefit to all this...

 

With power you may only attack, with speed you might adapt. If I will see your movements, I will have time to counter them.

Let's compare your strike wings to the Lexington fighters as those usually will be your adversaries, lexi's figher speed is 146-147 knots (the same as upgraded Ranger fighters). Your DB's have speed of 149 knots and TB have 133 knots. You will be able to fight on even ground against fighter decks of tier VII and VIII. What does it mean for you? Well you can actually play around fighter decks. Your dive bombers are faster, you can lure enemy fighters and create openings for your TB groups. TBs are also fast enough to use those openings even if they are not big. If he ignores your DB, then use them to find his CV and to bomb him. Just with the speed buff huge ammount of tactics and mind games has opened to you.
Only Essex full fighter deck will be extremly hard as those fighters have 160 knots, but still it is possible to do something about that. The basic idea is that If you know where there are enemy fighters you can find a weak point and you are fast enough right now to use that weak spot and run away without huge loses. 


Measure your attacks based on who you strike. Control yourself and environment.

On this tier there are couple of big difficult targets. Mainly you might encounter Iowa, the BB with the most brutal AA at the moment. If you want to sink her, she needs to be alone and you need all your planes working together. At the same time sometimes engaging 2 torpedo bombers to finish up some barerly living BB is just overkill. There are situations where you need to spread and situations where you need a strong pin point attack. I do belive that knowledge what to do when is more important on Shokaku than Hiryu as you right now you actually have good tools for more advaned tactics. 

 

Dragon stance! Waaaaait...Isn't this sounding a bit too familiar?

I wrote 3 paragraphs about speed buffs and nothing else. Shokaku is just so similar to Hiryu that there is nothing much to say beside that.

 

Conclusion:

For me Shokaku is just polished Hiryu. She is more tactical and you can impact game much better with her. Hiryu's power was pretty scary but it's Shokaku that's taking this power and using it in discplined manner. She also has pretty ok AAA (52 rating) so with the right movment and targeting with ctrl she can defend herself without fighters around. If you liked Hiryu you will like Shokaku. She is much more enjoyable and reliable to play, but it just doesn't feel like a big upgrade.

 

 

Edited by Ishiro32
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Alpha Tester
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Added Zuiho. It is actually fun selfanalyzing games.

Edited by Ishiro32

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Alpha Tester
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Let's have an applaud for everyones favourite, Ryuujou the "Prancing Dragon".

 

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Alpha Tester
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her more developed friends

 

I don't know, the line's going to end with Taihou and Taihou Kai Ni.  Seems like the Devs also have an enlightened appreciation for DFC.  :D

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Beta Tester
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Ok....a while back the hosho was "sexy teacher" and now its "sexy but strict professor"....you actually thought about that and changed it.

 

I find your erotic obsession with aircraft carriers disturbing.

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I actually edited Hosho a bit. Mostly because when I was playing her I did not think about how would a new player handle her. I also was seeing some other people impressions and was thinking about why they are struggling with her. I acutally added Let's start from the top and I don't care that this is your first day. Get to work! in her section and changed her cons to reflect that. Hosho as a whole looks like a ship desgined to force player into one playstyle, but they are forced into that playstyle bybecause any other behavior is punished. Also I find japenses carriers to be very intresting to look at, great designs. So sexy but strict professor seems fitting, doesn't it?

 

I find your erotic obsession with aircraft carriers disturbing.

 

Hahaha :D. I am actually glad I made someone type that phrase.  Stupid sexy aircraft carriers!

 

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Well written and informative. Thank you!

 

I hope we will see more updates. I want to know about Shokaku :)

Edited by Calapine

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The Flying Dragon is done. Now time for another Pearl Harbor veteran and at the same time another flying animal, one of the crane sisters. The unlucky one.

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The Flying Dragon is done. Now time for another Pearl Harbor veteran and at the same time another flying animal, one of the crane sisters. The unlucky one.

 

Interesting read! Found a minor error:

 

If you didn't know, the planes take longer to land on moving aircraft

 

Planes shouldn't land on other planes. It's just not safe. :P

 

As an aside, what is your preference in plane loadouts? 2/2/2 or full strike 0/3/3?

 

Edited by Calapine

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Thanks for pointing out error. There might be even more, I am not a native speaker and I am sure it shows.

I have also added section at the start to tell what loadouts I use. And at the moment it is full air strike deck, some people call it "kamikaze" and I do belive most top CV players use this setup. IJN fighters are not good enough to give you enough time against US fighter setup with capitan skills and with more attack planes you can spread around the map more. Fighter squads would be usefull when you are defending against enemy CV though, engage enemy wing that is about to attack you so they are panicked and after their attack focus on another.

 

I have added Shokaku and honestly writing anything meanigful about her was pretty hard. Heh. I am only after 18 games with her, so I might add something more later, but I don't think so.

Now let's just wait for the Taihou, I expect her to shake things up a bit.

 

 

Hello I decided to update my IJN impressions according to the recent japanese carrier changes. Please see the first post for the short version.

 

As for the long version here it goes:

 

I am sure that a lot of you think this is very childish move from my side. Cross out everything I have written about those ships. The thing is I have written my text because I though to myself... I am decent at thinking about numbers and gameplay patterns, I can write something about each ship and it might be useful to new players or maybe some people who think about starting this line. I actually wanted to in some way advertise that class to new players. Right now I can not do that with clear conscious. That is the reason of this childish knee jerk reaction.

 

Let me just describe my recent experiences, bear in mind that I was one of those CV players with over 67% win ratio and good stats to back it up. So before PVP I played few games on the Co-op. Of course bots are horrible, but I noticed one thing. On the VERY long ships like shokaku vs shokaku you are able to put actually a lot of torps, but when I did that I felt actually lucky. I felt that I almost didn't do it. And I was hitting slow huge bot moving in the straight line and I was stressed just by looking at it. After that I went to PVP... Well I rolled couple of really horrible matches. First I rolled with Ryoujo but MM decided that higher tier US BBs are all the jazz right now with higher tier CVs against me. Then jumped back to shokaku and let's talk about couple of things I have noticed.

1) US CVs are much more popular and most of them have fighers. I doin't know If this is just the buff and people testing it, but I fear this is once again 0.3.0. You need fighters to defend you fragile air strike force so you can't go full strike, you need to do some damage so you always pick balanced setup. I fear that we will be left with only US CVs with balanced setups that use fighters to fight just fighters. We will se in a couple of days how it will go.

2) With that huge spread you angle of attack must be much more perpendicular that it was before, because of it I feel like I need to fly much more to setup a good strike. So they have even more time, I waste even more time in AA and I give more time for fighters to come for me. This change would make more sense If it came with the BB turning and AAA nerf, but it didn't.

3) Because of that wide spread, when people at high tiers are doing evading manuvers... Well it is extremly hard to hit anything. Against a good player I don't think i can put more than 3 torps out of 12.

4) Even tunelvisioned enemies are hard to take out. I had a situations where DD ignored my TB completly and got 1 torp. He survived and killed me. He did not have to do anything. But whatever, let's say that's DD. Even BBs sailing straight as exceptional individuals will not receive full drop. The only targets that you can sink with TBs are huge BBs that are being driven by complete and utter imbeciles that refuse to press any button.

5) IJN CV sniping IJN CV is no longer valid tactic. You can still harras them with DBs and hope you will burn him up, but forget about sniping. Any CV player know how to dodge torps and you will need to come for him at least 2 times to sink him. This tactic is gone, I met IJN CVs that tried it... and the effect was pretty miserable.

6) Panic button against IJN CVs is pointless. Really, actually I think it helps a bit, because when you put your torps in the right place, the chaos will do job for you if you are lucky you will get some hits.

7) Auto is tighter than manual... what the hell...

8) US CV TBs are right now better than IJN ones.

 

Ok I will also give you something which I found a bit funny. In some games I was able to put my average damage per match, but pleas see attachment to see how I did it. I don't think I need to comment it further.

 

Conclusion for me:

I do think you can still get some games with good stats, even with that change, If MM decides you to not fight against US CV, but the thing is it is not fun. I was not having fun at all in the game when I did over 140k damage. Most of it was from dots debufs. I did not feel like my skill is being rewarded, actually I felt punished and l felt like I am killing only bad players. I was playing IJN CV line to push my multitasking skills to the test, to try beat the best CVs out there and I had fun doing that, actually I had a lot of fun. I don't feel it anymore. I put whole IJN line on hold until it is fun again, until that I will go back to US CVs. Their TBs still have old tight spread so it will be a bit nostalgic.

 

And in before some people tell me it's beta. Yes, I know. That's why I am not selling anything or quiting the game. I am a bit shocked why change like that was pushed into public though, because I think it completly breakes whole CV meta. IJNs main advantage was tight and powerful spread. High risk, High reward gameplay, this just makes them worse than US in every way. And yeah I do think that IJN needed some nerfs, I told multiple times in chats that shokaku feel a bit too strong and I understand why they have stoped tier IX and X and that they would be completly OP in the right hands. I get all that, I will wait and hope for the better iteration of this line... at the moment it is just not fun for me. Here, WG this is my feedback for your beta test... I refuse to play it, hope you will have that in your statistics.

 

Cheers, I will update Great Phoenix when I will get her and when IJN will be playable again.

 

Bestest game ever.png

Edited by BigBadVuk
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Thank you Ishiro, I feel that it was a great feedback.

I do not say that only because I agree, I really like this kind of commitment.

+1 !

 

I especially like the high risk  / high reward described; playing japanese CV was the best "drug" I got before the patch.

Now it's lower risk / much, much lower reward, esp when lower tier; nothing quite interesting, and not a role I could identify myself into.

 

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I think the way you changed your post is a strong and accurate reflection of how most of us feel right now. The low number of carrier players were very dedicated and withstood several negative changes in previous patches, but there comes a point where even we throw up our hands in despair and give in.

 

It's a really sad day and the first time I have regretted taking part in what has thus far been an amazing game experience. People are being hurt now and the joke of it wore thin a long time previous to this. This isn't beta balance, its class eradication.

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I was at the point of getting shukaku...needed 16k exp...before i was eradicating enemy warships and i had a minimal of 2 kills each game.I was so excited because this is the first line i do so fast.i think it was 2 days till i got there.Today i ve barely gathered around 3 or 4k experience...I am just afraid to touch the play button with Hiryu....And i was so damn excited to get Taiho and Hakuryu..they looked so sexy too :P But for now it seems i ll put a hold on this line too..That person everyone is talking about...that guy who did those "balance" changes...beta or not early stage or not...you cant just kill a whole class like that...the people who spend hours on the least popular class dont deserve it...And also i tried to start the USN CV's and i managed till independence but when i checked that the top tiers were same and focused on the fighters...i just sold it right there...i ll miss the fun of 1 shooting ships with a full spread from point black distance with 3 IJN squads..but even if that was too overpowered this thing that this guy did...didnt balance it..it killed it right there!

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Carriers are fine vs noobs. They were fine and are still fine. They are bad vs good players and were bad. Many good players recognize this, but a select few deny it - their performance in game is good, so carriers must be OP. However, judging carrier play vs the average noob seems like a poor way to balance the game, because it will just remove any potential skill from the usage of that ship class.

 

So yes, my stats are fine with carriers post patch, but I still can't do much vs good players that actually pay attention. Haven't seen anybody else be able to deal with that well either - even Papedipupi seemed to be unable to hit some people where an Iowa just slipped through the torps etc.

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Carriers are fine vs noobs. They were fine and are still fine. They are bad vs good players and were bad. Many good players recognize this, but a select few deny it - their performance in game is good, so carriers must be OP. However, judging carrier play vs the average noob seems like a poor way to balance the game, because it will just remove any potential skill from the usage of that ship class.

 

So yes, my stats are fine with carriers post patch, but I still can't do much vs good players that actually pay attention. Haven't seen anybody else be able to deal with that well either - even Papedipupi seemed to be unable to hit some people where an Iowa just slipped through the torps etc.

 

CV should be balance around middle player skill. They should be balance around the person who hits 4 times out of 10 and also around the battle ship that dodges 4 or 5 out of ten torps. Problem is they nerfed good CV players and buffed bad BB players. I can't count how many BB players I have seen just drive in a straight line with planes circling over them and yet they get a movement buff while CV get a torp nerf and IJN CV who are supposed to be good for damage get a spread nerf to.

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[PRAVD]
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CV should be balance around middle player skill. They should be balance around the person who hits 4 times out of 10 and also around the battle ship that dodges 4 or 5 out of ten torps. Problem is they nerfed good CV players and buffed bad BB players. I can't count how many BB players I have seen just drive in a straight line with planes circling over them and yet they get a movement buff while CV get a torp nerf and IJN CV who are supposed to be good for damage get a spread nerf to.

 

No, everything HAS to be balanced around the top player skill and then made things that are too easy to do a bit harder to do if they dominate lower skill levels too easily. The reason you have to balance around the top players is that they show what is possible. If you balance around the middle skill tier then the best players might find it completely useless or completely overpowered and thus breaking the game.

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No, everything HAS to be balanced around the top player skill and then made things that are too easy to do a bit harder to do if they dominate lower skill levels too easily. The reason you have to balance around the top players is that they show what is possible. If you balance around the middle skill tier then the best players might find it completely useless or completely overpowered and thus breaking the game.

 

While I will conceded that you have a point I would like to add another point of my own. If you have for instance a good player who can use a BB to get five or six kills a match with ease. You proceed to balance around him by making it harder for BB to get kills so instead of five or six kills a match he gets two or three. Then someone else who is decent at playing BB and would usually get two or three kills plays with the new balance and can barley get one kill. Move to another BB player playing with the new balance and while he usually could get one kill now finds himself unable to get any. This is my point ease of use in a game like this should come from skill while balance is their to give you a chance. That's why I said balance around middle player skill so people who know what they are doing can do well, people who really know what they are doing will do great, and people who don't know don't feel like there is this huge amount of work they have to do before it even starts to become fun.

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