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Sir_Sinksalot

Torpedo Acceleration Skill For Torps With 10km+ Range?

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Hi guys,

 

Just tinkering around with my Fubuki in Ops since we have a free Captain skills reset to play around with and try different setups.

 

One option I'm toying around with is the Torpedo Acceleration skill and I've not decided if it is beneficial or not. Here's the thing. The Fubuki, along with other Japanese ships and of course higher tier ships, have a 10km range on their torpedoes and some have even more. I'm thinking that generally anything over 8km range for a torp is not particularly beneficial at least for Ops and mid tier Randoms anyway since hitting a target at that range is pure luck given the time involved for the torpedo to travel that range and it's highly unlikely a target is going to stay on a reasonable stable heading for that entire time.

 

I can't speak for higher tier Random battles etc so when I use the TA skill I get an additional 5 kt(per hour I assume?) speed increase for a loss of 2km range reducing the torpedo range to 8km. I don't really see that 2km as a loss and while the 5kt or 9.33 kph increase in torpedo speed reduces the time the target has to react when they notice torps inbound, especially since Japanese torps like to send there targets a text alert to let them know they're on the way. Also, that additional speed also means that your torps will reach the target before your teammates do lol.

 

So I've currently maxed these torps speed out in with TA in conjunction with Torpedo Tube Modification equipment for a top speed of 67 kt(124 kph) and a distance of 8km which for a T6 DD with 6.1km concealment seems to be a good setup. But maybe I am overlooking something important and for higher tiers. Is that additional range more important for some reason? Like I said, generally hitting a target at 10km is pure luck at least that's what a noob like me finds. The faster the torpedo the sooner it gets there the less which is less time where your target might change direction even if they had no idea there was torps inbound. 

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I use torp acceleration on my Japanese DDs and with my Shima I have it with the type 93 mod 3 torps taking their range to about 9.6km  instead of their original 12km. Like you I prefer having my Japanese torps get on target ASAP considering how easily detected they are.

 

You do take a slight risk in high tier games getting within 10km of opponents in part due to radar and the general speed of ships. Still I find the risk acceptable, you should usually know where the enemy radar ships are and can pick when it's safe to close within their radar range drop off some torps and get out before their radar has returned from cool down. 

 

Only the most crazy/ confident thrill seekers use the " Bakakaze" Set up (F3s with torp acceleration) not something usually I would recommend but can be funny when it works. 

 

I dont use use torp acceleration on my British DDs though the torp range of the Daring is only 10km and she's not as stealthy as a Shimakaze so I prefer to have the extra range. 

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Range is never bad. 5 knots extra is ofc nice, but I'm not sure it's worth the 2 points and reduced range. I believe I have it on the yugu but not shima and I don't think any other ships.

 

edit: to explain further... at least at the start of the games you'll often have an enemy dd between you and the spotted ships, sometimes even a radar ship. Being able to drop torps a few kms earlier is valuable at times. It increases the versatility of the ship.

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I'm also starting to build the impression that with the longer torp reloads with each additional tier along with DD, torp counter measures, that gunboat DD's are far less situational and thus much better overall and the more reliable and flexible damage dealers than torp DD's? 

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43 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

I'm also starting to build the impression that with the longer torp reloads with each additional tier along with DD, torp counter measures, that gunboat DD's are far less situational and thus much better overall and the more reliable and flexible damage dealers than torp DD's? 

This has been the case for quite some time. Guns are reliable, torpedoes are not. Which is why you often see hybrids or gunboats generally do better than torp focused DD's.

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1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

Range is never bad.

Yudachi disagrees with you. Really. 15k is much too far for any game mode, they are a complete hazard to shipping. Anything fired at any angle other than straight in front of you... if it doesn't find the target you can affect team mates on the other side of the map. Now I have TA cap skill and the TTM1 module I've got 12k, 65 knot torps, which is much more usable.

 

I'm not sure I'd push Fubuki's torp range down, though. She's not quick and with the shorter range you risk not being able to escape from an unsuccessful salvo. 10-12k seems optimal for an IJN DD...  

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You never want less than 12km if you can see 12km radar, that's the golden rule to follow. Torps that have same or higher range than 12km radar are an excellent tool to dislodge radar cruisers from islands/smoke. Right now that means TA is useful (but not mandatory) on: 20km Shima torps, 16km Gearing torps, the new Swedish long range torps at tier 10/9 (but not Smaland) and that's about it. At lower tiers only the Yuudachi really benefits. Or any other ships that start with 14km+ range. If tier 8's are the highest that ship can see, TA is useful for anything that starts with 12km range or more. 

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I don't recommend use Torpedo Acceleration on Fubuki. Because sometimes you will get Tier 8 cruiser as enemy and Chapayev has 12 km radar and baltimore has 10 km radar. Sometimes you might need to torp enemy out from radar range. At least you should have a window to escape after launch torps.

 

Torpedo Acceleration is more logic to use on long range but slow torps. Like Italian Cruisers, or shima ( only for stock torps ) or Yoshino etc. 

Yoshino and Shima dont really needed but it would be use as option.

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10 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

I'm also starting to build the impression that with the longer torp reloads with each additional tier along with DD, torp counter measures, that gunboat DD's are far less situational and thus much better overall and the more reliable and flexible damage dealers than torp DD's? 

Pretty much.

 

And then only hightier gunboat that have actually bad torps is Khabarovsk. Every other - Gearing, Daring, Grozovoi, Harugumo, Kleber* carry more than viable torps when discretion is advised.

 

*Kleber since concealment nerf have next to no stealth torping window though

 

 

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12 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

I'm also starting to build the impression that with the longer torp reloads with each additional tier along with DD, torp counter measures, that gunboat DD's are far less situational and thus much better overall and the more reliable and flexible damage dealers than torp DD's? 

I'd disagree. Most dds are better or worse in different kinds of circumstances. Daring might be the most versatile dd in the game, but could also be the strongest tier 10 silver dd atm. Kita probably takes that award at tier 9. Overall though, the IJN torp line is very competitive in Random games and versatile enough to matter the majority of the games. Probably more so than many hybrid/gun dds. As torp dds they fit the current meta just a well if not better than many other dds do atm. I think it's due to the increase of spotting and medium range DPM. Gunning down dds one on one worked much better in the past.

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10 hours ago, Reaper_JackGBR said:

You never want less than 12km if you can see 12km radar, that's the golden rule to follow. Torps that have same or higher range than 12km radar are an excellent tool to dislodge radar cruisers from islands/smoke. Right now that means TA is useful (but not mandatory) on: 20km Shima torps, 16km Gearing torps, the new Swedish long range torps at tier 10/9 (but not Smaland) and that's about it. At lower tiers only the Yuudachi really benefits. Or any other ships that start with 14km+ range. If tier 8's are the highest that ship can see, TA is useful for anything that starts with 12km range or more. 

while i still not really can comprehend on longlances being viable "again" (have they ever been lol?), i just wanted to add asashio.

 

with ta and the speed module these torps are essentially a t10 byebye bb rocket on 16km range.

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14 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Hi guys,

 

Just tinkering around with my Fubuki in Ops since we have a free Captain skills reset to play around with and try different setups.

 

One option I'm toying around with is the Torpedo Acceleration skill and I've not decided if it is beneficial or not. Here's the thing. The Fubuki, along with other Japanese ships and of course higher tier ships, have a 10km range on their torpedoes and some have even more. I'm thinking that generally anything over 8km range for a torp is not particularly beneficial at least for Ops and mid tier Randoms anyway since hitting a target at that range is pure luck given the time involved for the torpedo to travel that range and it's highly unlikely a target is going to stay on a reasonable stable heading for that entire time.

 

I can't speak for higher tier Random battles etc so when I use the TA skill I get an additional 5 kt(per hour I assume?) speed increase for a loss of 2km range reducing the torpedo range to 8km. I don't really see that 2km as a loss and while the 5kt or 9.33 kph increase in torpedo speed reduces the time the target has to react when they notice torps inbound, especially since Japanese torps like to send there targets a text alert to let them know they're on the way. Also, that additional speed also means that your torps will reach the target before your teammates do lol.

 

So I've currently maxed these torps speed out in with TA in conjunction with Torpedo Tube Modification equipment for a top speed of 67 kt(124 kph) and a distance of 8km which for a T6 DD with 6.1km concealment seems to be a good setup. But maybe I am overlooking something important and for higher tiers. Is that additional range more important for some reason? Like I said, generally hitting a target at 10km is pure luck at least that's what a noob like me finds. The faster the torpedo the sooner it gets there the less which is less time where your target might change direction even if they had no idea there was torps inbound. 

I play Fub OK and have tried both builds. I prefer the ten K option myself so after much testing of the two stuck with that. 

 

One thing struck me from your comments though. You're thinking In  terms of how far your torps go. I'm thinking about my ships operational area. 

 

Let me explain. Fub has a detect range of 6.1.cool. but she turns like a brick and is not the fastest. 

 

My operational area and this of course is not written in stone is 7.5. 

 

Why.. 

 

It gives me a nice buffer for if I screw up and miss a ship pushing in on me. You will be surprised how fast 1000m can fritter away on you. 

 

Now if you run 8km torp option your operational area is now 6.5 or less. You have zero buffer before you're spotted. I never want the enemy to know where I am until I have launched. This gives me more chance of those first salvos hitting home. 

 

I decide as much as possible when and if I'm spotted. Not the enemy. 

 

Also running a larger operational area allows you that buffer for the radar ships you come across too. If you do get radar spotted you can disengage quickly,  plane spotted you are that much further away when you start getting shot at. 

 

So anyway don't think I'm terms of torp distance think in terms of what is my comfortable operational area for this or that ship. And I'm only talking stealth torp DD here as that is the discussion although this does more or less apply to all my ships. 

 

All of this does vary for me and is highly situational of course. 

 

But that's how I play and that's how I think. 

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As long as it leaves u with a comfortable (for your gamestyle) margin of stealth, torp acceleration is a very good skill

Consider radar tho

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17 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

, torp acceleration is a very good skill

In what way? 5 knots extra is nice, but not very good. Coupling that with reduced range, you've got a 2p skill that is decent at best.

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7 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

In what way? 5 knots extra is nice, but not very good. Coupling that with reduced range, you've got a 2p skill that is decent at best.

Less time to dodge ?

As I said as long as its not outside of your "stealth comfort" zone

Also in dogfights it can make a difference

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11 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

Less time to dodge ?

How much does this influence the battle compared to the extra range? Once and awhile a ship takes a torp it might have dodged without the 5knot extra speed, but I doubt it's very often. In most scenarios and for most ships, maybe not all, the extra range is preferable in terms of influence, imo. It can be debated, but I don't think it's a great very good skill. It may be a decent option for some players and ships.

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I wouldnt take TA on any ship that doesnt have at least 10 km range with TA taken, so on fubu? No...

 

Those 9.6km on Shima/Yugu are a border case, I still wouldnt but I could live with it if I had to (shared cap or something)

 

The new extra torp speed module in slot 3 and thats it...

 

Gearing 16km, Shima 20km and Ashasio yes

 

Halland - probably could be used, is there a need for that IDK, maybe more to shorten the range for randoms and less for the speed gain as such

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15 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

I wouldnt take TA on any ship that doesnt have at least 10 km range with TA taken, so on fubu? No...

 

Those 9.6km on Shima/Yugu are a border case, I still wouldnt but I could live with it if I had to (shared cap or something)

 

The new extra torp speed module in slot 3 and thats it...

 

Gearing 16km, Shima 20km and Ashasio yes

 

Halland - probably could be used, is there a need for that IDK, maybe more to shorten the range for randoms and less for the speed gain as such

Doesnt Fubuki have 10 k  (mine has type 8 mod2 10km)

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Just now, Ronchabale said:

Doesnt Fubuki have 10 k  (mine has type 8 mod2 10km)

Yes but I said 10km WITH the TA not without, with TA fubu has 8km torps... ^^

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10 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Yes but I said 10km WITH the TA not without, with TA fubu has 8km torps... ^^

ok

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17 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

So I've currently maxed these torps speed out in with TA in conjunction with Torpedo Tube Modification equipment for a top speed of 67 kt(124 kph) and a distance of 8km which for a T6 DD with 6.1km concealment seems to be a good setup. But maybe I am overlooking something important and for higher tiers. Is that additional range more important for some reason?

Its a trade-off. Range + reload vs speed and detection range.

 

Benham can throw so many torp volleys that are reasonably speedy, taking TA materially decreases hits in the 8-10 km range, even on ships behind the primary target.

Shimakaze and IJN torpedoes are spotted so far out, they need all the speed they can pile on to get on target asap. However, here both 12 km and speedy 8 km options are available. Personally I run F3s but no TA since range gets too short.

 

Other IJN 10 km torps are so slow and easily spotted, they benefit a lot from TA imo.

I just completed a IJN gunboat regrind using TA on (Hatsu? and) Shiratsuyu, and the increased speed massivly increased how many hits I got.

 

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18 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

Range is never bad. 5 knots extra is ofc nice, but I'm not sure it's worth the 2 points and reduced range. I believe I have it on the yugu but not shima and I don't think any other ships.

 

edit: to explain further... at least at the start of the games you'll often have an enemy dd between you and the spotted ships, sometimes even a radar ship. Being able to drop torps a few kms earlier is valuable at times. It increases the versatility of the ship.

I used to have the sub 9km range with TA skill perk.  Then the radar meta got it's hold, with 12km Radars being a more common place. I reverted to the standard 12km with the speed module upgrade as a side grade.

 

Also, I load up with the 20km range option for those late night "relaxing" games to see if your predictions were correct.

 

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1 hour ago, LowSpeedHighDrag said:

Also, I load up with the 20km range option for those late night "relaxing" games to see if your predictions were correct.

My prediction? I'm not sure I've with played those 20km torps enough to comment or predict anything about them. 12 km is recommended imo, perhaps 8km for some, but I doubt they're as effective.

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FWIW I don't often take TA, but I do have it in one or two places: I take it on Fubuki, as I can live with 8 km torps with that ship (although the point made earlier about radar on T8s is extremely well made; that said, it's hard to land torp hits at maximum range against a competent enemy, and I seem to do less badly with faster 8 km torps). I also use the same captain on Yudachi (which gives you 12 km torps with almost acceptable speed), and Asashio.

 

Generally, I tend to agree with the sentiment expressed earlier that you *generally* only take TA on DDs with longer range torps to start with...

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On 3/15/2020 at 5:33 PM, loppantorkel said:

My prediction? I'm not sure I've with played those 20km torps enough to comment or predict anything about them. 12 km is recommended imo, perhaps 8km for some, but I doubt they're as effective.

I meant me. Not you.  It's just the English language usage. I should've said "games to see if my predictions were correct.".

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