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the_crow_96

why Worcester can't pen 38 mm?

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so with new rules He (and Sap) can pen threshold lesser or equal of the pen value

Worcester has 152 guns, with new rules you have a divider of 5 so you get a 30.4 and if you put ifhe on you get a multiplier of 1.25 and a final result of 38, so why you can't pen 38 mm?

 

I'm not whinig about the ability of pen or not pen of worcester, I'm really only curious of understand of exactly works the update.

 

Thank you in advance and sorry for the mistakes, I'm not a mother tongue

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30,4mm means you can pen 30mm armor => penetration value is 30mm

30mm *1,25 = 37,5mm.

 

The penetration value is applied to the (stock) penetration value, which is shown in the port (and that is in most times a down rounded value).

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12 minutes ago, the_crow_96 said:

so with new rules He (and Sap) can pen threshold lesser or equal of the pen value

Worcester has 152 guns, with new rules you have a divider of 5 so you get a 30.4 and if you put ifhe on you get a multiplier of 1.25 and a final result of 38, so why you can't pen 38 mm?

 

I'm not whinig about the ability of pen or not pen of worcester, I'm really only curious of understand of exactly works the update.

 

Thank you in advance and sorry for the mistakes, I'm not a mother tongue

because they round at every step, not just the result of the formula ...

 

basically whole mm penetration number is fed into IFHE as was explained by @Spartan_93

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Basic HE pen is subject to the standard rounding rules (.49 down, .50 up), so Woosta gets 30.00 mm HE pen.

 

IFHE pen is NOT rounded and now has to be at least equal to the armor, so Woosta gets 30 (1.25) = 37.5 mm which is less than 38 mm.

 

Basic pen was always rounded and IFHE was not, the ONLY things that changed with 0.9.2 are base pen denominators for some ships (5 instead of 6), modifier from IFHE skill (1.25 instead of 1.3) and the fact than now you do not have to go over the armor thickness but you can also be exactly equal to it.

 

There is some confusion that IFHE pen value in port is displayed rounded, but the non-rounded value is (and always was) used to determine if the shell penetrates the armor.

Edited by Yamashiro42
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15 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

because they round at every step, not just the result of the formula ...

Value after applying IFHE isn't rounded, otherwise 30*1.25=37.5 would be rounded up to 38. Which isn't the case

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Are you implying that the new HE pen and IFHE mechanics are in fact not any more intuitive or easier to understand?

 

gulag-o-clock.jpg.5cb933bed6570d693302f8d51a2d9555.jpg

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Also note German BB and CL 150 mm guns base HE pen: 150/4 = 37.5 mm which gets rounded up to 38 mm.

(Sadly the same guns on DDs use the 1/6 rule.)

 

So Nürnbergs can now troll these North Carolinas, Alabamas and Massachusettses...

Edited by Yamashiro42

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10 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Value after applying IFHE isn't rounded, otherwise 30*1.25=37.5 would be rounded up to 38. Which isn't the case

you can round up or down ...

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11 minutes ago, Yamashiro42 said:

Also note German BB and CL 150 mm guns base HE pen: 150/4 = 37.5 mm which gets rounded up to 38 mm.

(Sadly the same guns on DDs use the 1/6 rule.)

 

So Nürnbergs can now troll these North Carolinas, Alabamas and Massachusettses...

Result of dividing caliber by 4, 5, 6 or whatever is rounded mathematically. Further IFHE shenaniganery isn't. Also NC had 37mm deck for since always, so Nopeburger always could damage that.

 

3 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

you can round up or down ...

I've dared to assume WG used common math rounding, ie 1-4 go down, 5-9 go up.

 

I know, logic and WG aren't best friends at best of times.

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5 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Result of dividing caliber by 4, 5, 6 or whatever is rounded mathematically. Further IFHE shenaniganery isn't. Also NC had 37mm deck for since always, so Nopeburger always could damage that.

 

I've dared to assume WG used common math rounding, ie 1-4 go down, 5-9 go up.

 

I know, logic and WG aren't best friends at best of times.

If logic or mathematical rules would apply, WOrcester would pen 38mm ... sooo ... hard to argue here as it clearly does not apply ....

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Just now, Hugh_Ruka said:

If logic or mathematical rules would apply, WOrcester would pen 38mm ... sooo ... hard to argue here as it clearly does not apply ....

152/5=30.4, rounded down to 30.  30*1.25=37.5, not rounded thus 37mm plating is thickest that can be damaged unless you find 37.5mm plating somewhere.

 

On opposite, German 15cm is rounded up to 38 (150/4=37.5). Which conveniently goes with Mainz being in the works:cap_tea:

 

german bias

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1 hour ago, Panocek said:

152/5=30.4, rounded down to 30.  30*1.25=37.5, not rounded thus 37mm plating is thickest that can be damaged unless you find 37.5mm plating somewhere.

 

On opposite, German 15cm is rounded up to 38 (150/4=37.5). Which conveniently goes with Mainz being in the works:cap_tea:

 

german bias

so you round at one step but not the other ... again logic or math rules don't apply, so the evaluation is completely arbitrary and varies from case to case it seems ...

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6 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

so you round at one step but not the other ... again logic or math rules don't apply, so the evaluation is completely arbitrary and varies from case to case it seems ...

Go bother WG why is that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Bayard used to have an special HE pen at 1/5. Worse then the Germans better then the rest. But with the old Calculations her advantage was the 38 mm pen. That’s gone. And poor old Dimitry Donskoi with it’s more powerfull 180’s is also stuck at 37mm while Mogami  with it’s 155 pens 38mm...

 

Sure, well done WG.

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5 hours ago, the_crow_96 said:

so with new rules He (and Sap) can pen threshold lesser or equal of the pen value

Worcester has 152 guns, with new rules you have a divider of 5 so you get a 30.4 and if you put ifhe on you get a multiplier of 1.25 and a final result of 38, so why you can't pen 38 mm?

 

I'm not whinig about the ability of pen or not pen of worcester, I'm really only curious of understand of exactly works the update.

 

Thank you in advance and sorry for the mistakes, I'm not a mother tongue

Because it's not russian.

Wait for the light russian cruiser which will come soon, they will be able to. Because balans.

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2 hours ago, Jethro_Grey said:

Because it's not russian.

Wait for the light russian cruiser which will come soon, they will be able to. Because balans.

Except no, as they (for now) use /6 HE pen. So 180mm shell have the same penetration as 152mm

 

where is bussian rias when you need one

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25 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Except no, as they (for now) use /6 HE pen. So 180mm shell have the same penetration as 152mm

 

where is bussian rias when you need one

They’re still in testing, and seeing what almighty, alknowing spread shiet has said so far...it wouldn’t surprise me at all if they gonna be able to.

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8 hours ago, Yamashiro42 said:

Also note German BB and CL 150 mm guns base HE pen: 150/4 = 37.5 mm which gets rounded up to 38 mm.

(Sadly the same guns on DDs use the 1/6 rule.)

 

So Nürnbergs can now troll these North Carolinas, Alabamas and Massachusettses...

I guess for the low low price of 40 Euro, or 80 for an Admiral bundle, you soon can buy a Mainz to experience the glory that could have been, a light cruiser that can HE pen 38 mm without IFHE and without killing its own fire chance.

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