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devilsdog

Jap. CV < US CV ....or am I wrong?

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Beta Tester
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I experienced that the jap. CVs are much weaker than the US belong to their size of every squad.

 

3x4 torp-bombers are equal to US 2x6 in quantity of planes. (Tier IV)

Depending on the area from their auto drop (yes just comparing the auto drop here) US drops are much more effective, because there are 6 torpedos instead of 4 (in the same size of this area(dont know the right engl word for this now^^)). Yes you could attack from different sites with jap. but will that now the effectiveness of a single squad. Ok call that balance.

But!

Now there are the ballancing problems.

In 1vs1 fighter-fights I expierienced the jap. will lose every approach.

And US CVs got i.e. 1x torp-bomb and 1xfighter.

So they gain air superiority while also having still the advance of a better torpbomber squad (like read before).

 

Losing almost 6 of 12 torp-bombers can't be compensated by the jap. CV the whole time. Besides they can't even shot the US torp-bombers or the fighters.

Yes I could use another configuration but why should jap. use weaker fighters (read till the end) and drop off a torp-bomber squad to lose more of my capability to deal dmg?!

It's a lose-lose situation (don't know if the opposite of win-win exists but now it does :D)

 

I don't know about the exact calculation of the fights but a simple check of the stats (Tier V or Tech 2 of US Tier IV):

 

Jap Fighters:                                        US Fighters:

4 Planes                                               6 Planes

30 dmg                                                 30 Dmg

780 HP                                                 760 HP

 

So if every Plane would shot just once

Jap. would deal 120 (4x30) dmg vs 180 (6x30) US dmg.

In 6 shots it would be 720 dmg vs 1080 dmg.

So if it would work like this (I know there's another calculation, but...) US would deal nearly 1,5 of jap. plane HP while jap. planes did not even deal the dmg amount of a single US plane.

 

With this stats even jap. Tier V CVs can't match the damage dealt from Tier IV US CVs which upgrades their fighters to tech II.

Stats: 30 dmg, 560 HP

6 Planes -> 180 dmg

6 Shots -> 1080 dmg

The only weakness here is the HP, but I still experienced that I will lose 3 of 4 fighters and win or lose the fight. (1vs1)

 

I hope wargaming will work on that. Making fighters more equal. Maybe in size, dmg, HP or whatever. But in this state it's no fun driving jap CVs.

Even US CVs is not much entertaining with only 2 maybe 3 squads.

 

Spamming bigger sized squads with much weaker HP (and dmg) could be an option (in my opinion).

And don't know.

That's WGs task.

 

End of my feedback :D destroy me now ^^

 

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[GN0ME]
Beta Tester
5,339 posts
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this patch is weird i saw people claim USN CVs are worse than IJN CVs, i saw people claim that they cant penetrate enough to do damage, i saw people claim 1 shot kills increased

 

WHAT IS GOING ON :angry:

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Beta Tester
295 posts
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If you read the notes on the patch you realise that the fighters of IJN will lose every time against US - that's the trade off of having a Torpedo focussed loadout which the US does not have. 

 

I have to say im loving the IJN CV - the key is to stay close to allys, the turnaround of planes is very fast and tbh you don't need a single fighter.  Be prepared to move around the map.  The US has a BIG problem, and that's going into battle with a fighter setup and opposition not having any CV, i had a battle like that and all i could do was spot.  I did get 2 kills with my single dive bomber squadron but 2 enemy were low hp and would have died anyway, was a very frustrating game.

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Beta Tester
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devilsdog

I couldn't agree more with you. Been playing the IJN carriers and using the fighters are absolute pointless, other than attacking other dive bombers and torp planes. However because the enemy knows that

IJN planes are low in numbers so they just fly to other fighters and just get decimated. And for the other squads they need more planes in them, even if it is just one more. Having 4 dive bombers just dose not

work. Having 4 torp planes is just... naaa... You have 1 more unit but that dont mean anything if they just get whipped the F**K out. In my opinion they need to add more planes to the units and possibly take one 

away. So I think they definitely need to do something about this. 

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[-I-N-]
Beta Tester
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I'd say 5would be a far better matchup than 4planes are.fighters are still not going to rape their enemies but bombers and tropedo-bombers would certainly be more effective and I still don't understand why the IJN Tropedos do so little dmg they do almost the same as the US ones which does not make sense. That I need 3squads for 12trops and the enemy just 2 is fine with me but my trop-bombers are not just way more fragile no they also do the same dmg, while the enemy got fighters that can counter my trop-bombers while mine can't. Maybe thats just a lowtier problem but if it stays the IJN CV's are going to suffer as they also got less HP and no airdefense

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Beta Tester
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Hello dear bridge officers !

[my first post on the forums - hurray!]

 

I am a passionate CV captain and i really looked forward to the patch and the introduction of the IJN CV line so i played all day long like a no-lifer upto Tier VI and i came to following conclusion:

 

Its all a big rock-paper-scissor game:

IJN CVs get totally wrecked by USN CVs in a 1vs1 situation - the USN CVs are terrible against BBs with their dive bomers (DB) and fighter focused loadouts - BBs are easy NOMNOM for IJN CVs and their torpedo bombers (TB):

So in theory this should promote teamplay and communication ! Example:

I had a game as IJN CV with the TB/DB-only loadout and in my team was a USN CV with fighter only loadout. The enemy team had a single higher tier CV lexington. I asked him to escort my squads with his fighters and i moved in to sink the single CV. He went in with his fighters and i sunk the lexington in a single run. I know this is pretty much the best case scenario....

 

Worst case scenario is 1 IJN CV vs 1 USN CV .... as said earlier you are pretty much paralyzed with your garbage fighters (if you have any). You can do 2 things: Make a run for the enemy CV or stay close to friendly ships with your planes ... both playstyles are risky: On the one hand you dont want to end up flying circles with your torpedo bombers because then you cant help out your team and on the other hand you dont want to lose all your planes  :-(

 

 

My conclussion: This patch made driving CV much more frustrating for both sides!

IJN CVs cant really use their bomber advantage effectivly  <---> USN CVs are doomed to stalk the IJN bombers with their fighters ... The first person who says **** it and goes all in has pretty much thrown away the planes.

And both sides need to equip the specialized loadouts to stay effectifly in the "meta": USN need to have the air superiority loadouts, IJN need to have the bombers only one

 

IJN bonus and why it is totally useless with an USN carrier in the enemy team - and why USN carriers are useless without CVs in enemy team:

 

IJN bonus:

faster plane preparation time

-> USELESS! why would i need to have a faster preparation time when i need to fly circles over friendly ships for most of the game?

 

more squadrons

-> USELESS! the ammount of bombers per squad is reduced which makes one squad much more inefficent because of the wider spread of  torpedoes! I only do manual aim and the lower accuracy of the IJN TB squads is a major critic i have to this patch  ( torpedoes are dropped at different ranges and not in a straight line )

 

fighters have more ammo

->USELESS! you cant use your fighters to defend your own bombers because your fighters are pretty terrible compared to US fighters so dont even bother to take fighters with you - or you use them as defense against incoming bombers ( as effective as USN fighters but with higher stamine because of more ammo, but still only noob CVs will attack without fighter guards )

 

USN carriers without enemy carriers:

Welcome to a huge waste of your time! Have fun to tickle the BBs with your DBs and scout destroyers with your fighters - thats the best you can do.

 

 

But keep in mind: The game isnt finished yet, its still in CBT !

Thats my impression from my experience i had in the first day of playing  :)

 

Now some feedback and ideas i would change:

 

Give the CVs eternal planes per match and punish losses via preparation time for new squads.

Give USN DB the option to change between AP and HE and give them more ACCURACY.

Give  IJN TB the option to change between speed and damage.

Change the torpedo spreads of IJN TBs that they are like USN TBs -> all drop at same distance and in a straight line!

 

 

 

 

Edited by Cronos
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Beta Tester
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devilsdog

I couldn't agree more with you. Been playing the IJN carriers and using the fighters are absolute pointless, other than attacking other dive bombers and torp planes. 

 

IJN fighters get pretty decent when they get the 2 x Squads of A6M Zeros on the Hiryu, 90 dmg ( 3 times as much as the previous lvl ).

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Beta Tester
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Yes seems like much dmg compared to the previous ship, but ...

...look at this:

Tier VIII:

                        Jap Fighter                 US Fighter

Tech 1             90 dmg                       84 dmg

Tech 2             96 dmg                       126 dmg

 

It's a joke. I mean no joke to laugh at. Jap. +6 dmg, US +42 dmg.

 

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Beta Tester
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And even looking at those stats, their the tier 8 CV. Who wants to grind through these CV's just to get the possibility to have better fighters. and thats unlikely because they would just use free xp to get the upgraded planes. The planes need a serious buff in my opinion. The CV's themselves seem fine, and they look ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL. However the tier 9 and 10 are not there for some reason?  

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Alpha Tester
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AP bombs and maybe a little further accuracy buff for DBs, one more DB squadron for each of the US carriers.  Buff to IJN fighters.  Now the meta's less frustrating for everyone.

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Beta Tester
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I don't know why US CVs would even take fighters. It doesn't make sense to me lets say I take fighters and shut down 2x IJN CV, which technically obviously I couldn't then I would count the HP of those 2 cvs to "my" damage. roughly 100k HP of the enemy fleet was taken out by my fighters because those 100k HP couldnt do anything.

 

If I take the normal loadout I likely deal more than 100k in damage unless the enemy has lots of fighters so taking fighters for me is losing out on potential for my team

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Players
316 posts
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WG is probably measuring effects what happens if certain things are changed. Japanese CV:s are that "standard" against what changes are measured. 

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Alpha Tester
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I don't know why US CVs would even take fighters. It doesn't make sense to me lets say I take fighters and shut down 2x IJN CV, which technically obviously I couldn't then I would count the HP of those 2 cvs to "my" damage. roughly 100k HP of the enemy fleet was taken out by my fighters because those 100k HP couldnt do anything.

 

If I take the normal loadout I likely deal more than 100k in damage unless the enemy has lots of fighters so taking fighters for me is losing out on potential for my team

 

To swap it around, if you block them, you're preventing 200k damage to your own team.  You're sacrificing your own damage potential to "buy back" several team mates, can still use your DBs to eke out a little damage and lots of crits, and can completely cockblock stealthy destroyers.  It's a frustrating play style, but good for the team.  A US CV is a good team player, in that it removes both BB counters.

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Beta Tester
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To swap it around, if you block them, you're preventing 200k damage to your own team.  You're sacrificing your own damage potential to "buy back" several team mates, can still use your DBs to eke out a little damage and lots of crits, and can completely cockblock stealthy destroyers.  It's a frustrating play style, but good for the team.  A US CV is a good team player, in that it removes both BB counters.

 

That is blasphemy. That would suggest I think the enemy CVs are as capable as I am! Probably more likely to block like 70k damage total. Fighters are allright if you know you are up against very good cvs, maybe but then you also could just always go bombers/torpers and make it a dps race in the food pond. Especially since you can't even guarantee to fight against an enemy CV if you play the fighter loadout at which point you are pretty screwed.

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Alpha Tester
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That is blasphemy. That would suggest I think the enemy CVs are as capable as I am! Probably more likely to block like 70k damage total. Fighters are allright if you know you are up against very good cvs, maybe but then you also could just always go bombers/torpers and make it a dps race in the food pond. Especially since you can't even guarantee to fight against an enemy CV if you play the fighter loadout at which point you are pretty screwed.

 

I agree that the meta's kinda iffy right now, but how about this:

Standard setup - some fighters, one torpedo bomber, some DB.

Fighter setup - as above, minus the one TB for some more fighters and possibly DB.  Damage lost is minimal, because a single TB squadron is easily evadable, being unable to pincer.  Increased DBs may even offset this damage loss completely, also being more useful against non-BBs. 

DPM setup - max DPM, but not a single fighter.  Can lose most of your DPM to a single enemy fighter squadron, and run out of planes.

 

So, really, it's a choice between the fighter setup and the DPM setup.  If you're against a carrier who's dropped even a single squad of bombers compared to you to take a fighter whilst you're geared for DPM, he's still going to have a fair deal of DPM, and he's going to be able to slash yours.

 

I do agree, though, that it should be improved.  I just think that the measures I mentioned above would be enough.

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Beta Tester
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To swap it around, if you block them, you're preventing 200k damage to your own team.  You're sacrificing your own damage potential to "buy back" several team mates, can still use your DBs to eke out a little damage and lots of crits, and can completely cockblock stealthy destroyers.  It's a frustrating play style, but good for the team.  A US CV is a good team player, in that it removes both BB counters.

 

lol, you are expecting that enemy CV will do 100k dmg? Decent Essex captain had trouble to maintain average of 100k dmg before the nerf. Now the important part... this is online free to play game, you have to expect that your team is made of one-handed monkeys after lobotomy. What you dont do on your own, no one else will. Playing the air dominance role can be fun, until you realize that your team is hopeless and you can do absolutely nothing to change the outcome. And in the end you will get ridiculously low amount of exp. Combine that with no in-game reward for scouting and for [edited]-blockind DDs and there is really no reason to play US CVs on public with fighter setup.
Edited by DtXpwnz

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