Why did I drop to such a low winrate with Donskoi

[TPyn_HA_PyCHAK]

My win rate was above 50%, now when I reached Donskoi it suddenly dropped below 30%. I am trying my best as usual but there has to be some reason beyond my capabilities. Most of the games are a roflstomp, the enemy team loses a few ships while my team is obliterated and it's not long before I get focused down by a few almighty BBs. 

 

I will admit that I play Donskoi just to get the Moskva before it becomes so-called "premium". 

[ColonelPete]

• lack of experience in general
• lack of experience with the ship
• low number of battles in a ship mean that the stats do not say much

A players WR becomes statistical valid at around a 1000 games.

A ships WR gives a tendency with more than 100 maches, anything below does not say much.

I am pretty sure you are far from that.

[ForlornSailor]

24 minutes ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

I am trying my best as usual but there has to be some reason beyond my capabilities.

 

You had protected matchmaking for your first 75 games / up until T5. It shows in your stats. Not only did you only play against new players aswell but many bots.

This teaches new players a wrong picture of the game. Like you can just rush in and outgun everything you meet.

Besides that, with <250 random games you are not ready for high tiers. Yes, I understand the Moskva argument but oof. You are neither helping yourself nor your teams. And yea, youll get a premium (if you manage to get there in time) but its gonna be of no value for you. For now.

 

So overall, you still have a wrong picture of the game, need more experiance + high tiers are a lot different from the low tiers. We see players with <500 games in high tier ships every day and they cant perform because they lack experiance.

[TPyn_HA_PyCHAK]

44 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

• lack of experience in general
• lack of experience with the ship
• low number of battles in a ship mean that the stats do not say much

A players WR becomes statistical valid at around a 1000 games.

A ships WR gives a tendency with more than 100 maches, anything below does not say much.

I am pretty sure you are far from that.

 

Dude, seriously - I would be long gone from this game before I have to endure a 1000 massive losses like these. 

 

And to be honest, I do not understand your point, what experience do I get, what do I learn from this? A DD is spotting me and some hidden BB citadel me. Or I try to angle as everyone advises and still get citadelled. Or I try to use a "meat shield" from teammates and still get focused down cause I am a radar cruiser and everyone hates them. Or to stay at the edge of my range and basically do too little damage. 

 

I don't see a way to play smart. It is a team game and the individual player depends on someone else but there is no coordination, it is more like a bunch of flies without heads. 

 

I watched a few replays of some players and they have a very elegant play in Randoms, I suppose they play all day long but that is a heavy price to become good and get some enjoyment of the game.

 

[TPyn_HA_PyCHAK]

13 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

You had protected matchmaking for your first 75 games / up until T5. It shows in your stats. Not only did you only play against new players aswell but many bots.

This teaches new players a wrong picture of the game. Like you can just rush in and outgun everything you meet.

Besides that, with <250 random games you are not ready for high tiers. Yes, I understand the Moskva argument but oof. You are neither helping yourself nor your teams. And yea, youll get a premium (if you manage to get there in time) but its gonna be of no value for you. For now.

 

 So overall, you still have a wrong picture of the game, need more experiance + high tiers are a lot different from the low tiers. We see players with <500 games in high tier ships every day and they cant perform because they lack experiance.

 

OK, but I think there is some contradiction: if I am not ready for upper tiers and lower tiers are a lot different from higher tiers then what to do? To get experience for the upper tiers you have to play upper tiers. If you want to learn to drive, you do it in a car, not in NFS.

 

BTW is there a fixed date for the Moskva transformation? I don't want to miss it. 

[GarrusBrutus]

4 minutes ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

Dude, seriously - I would be long gone from this game before I have to endure a 1000 massive losses like these. 

If you rush to the hightiers without experience you will have to endure 1000 losses to learn the game instead of gradually learning and winning along the way through the tiers at a slower pace. That is just how it is. Deal with it.

5 minutes ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

And to be honest, I do not understand your point, what experience do I get, what do I learn from this? A DD is spotting me and some hidden BB citadel me. Or I try to angle as everyone advises and still get citadelled. Or I try to use a "meat shield" from teammates and still get focused down cause I am a radar cruiser and everyone hates them. Or to stay at the edge of my range and basically do too little damage. 

Donskoi gets overmatched by almost any bb it faces. So try to not get hit. Stay back at the start but go in when you see an opportunity.

7 minutes ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

I don't see a way to play smart.

You can play smart but it takes time and effort to learn.

3 minutes ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

OK, but I think there is some contradiction: if I am not ready for upper tiers and lower tiers are a lot different from higher tiers then what to do? To get experience for the upper tiers you have to play upper tiers. If you want to learn to drive, you do it in a car, not in NFS.

You got it all wrong mate. If you want to learn how to play football you dont go straight to barcelona and play with messi. You will get beaten again and again and again. Instead you start with the amateurs as a kid to learn the basics (tier 1-2-3), then get into the more serious business at your local amateur club (tier 4-5-6) before heading off to a pro-club youth system to get familiar with how the big boys play (tier 7-8) and after that you can play professional football with the big boys (tier 9-10).
 

[Lebedjev]

6 minutes ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

BTW is there a fixed date for the Moskva transformation? I don't want to miss it. 

 

So go for it ?

Don't think to much about your winrate, if you want to improve, you should learn from your mistake and have an open mind, it's alway easy to blame the team insted of yourself.

 

 

[Fat_Maniac]

2 minutes ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

 

OK, but I think there is some contradiction: if I am not ready for upper tiers and lower tiers are a lot different from higher tiers then what to do? To get experience for the upper tiers you have to play upper tiers. If you want to learn to drive, you do it in a car, not in NFS.

 

BTW is there a fixed date for the Moskva transformation? I don't want to miss it. 

No lower tiers teach you the basic game mechanics, When you start to play higher tiers it's vital you know what targets to engage and which to avoid. You need to understand the armour schemes of your enemies and yourself, so you know where to hit them and what ammo is most effective, and so you can understand who you can bow tank against and who can overmatch you.

The other part of spending time in low tiers is so you can learn to read the flow of the battle, when to push and when to defend or withdraw.

As a general rule of thumb, 100 games per tier as a minimum is generally considered what is required. 

[TPyn_HA_PyCHAK]

15 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

If you rush to the hightiers without experience you will have to endure 1000 losses to learn the game instead of gradually learning and winning along the way through the tiers at a slower pace. That is just how it is. Deal with it.

Donskoi gets overmatched by almost any bb it faces. So try to not get hit. Stay back at the start but go in when you see an opportunity.

You can play smart but it takes time and effort to learn.

You got it all wrong mate. If you want to learn how to play football you dont go straight to barcelona and play with messi. You will get beaten again and again and again. Instead you start with the amateurs as a kid to learn the basics (tier 1-2-3), then get into the more serious business at your local amateur club (tier 4-5-6) before heading off to a pro-club youth system to get familiar with how the big boys play (tier 7-8) and after that you can play professional football with the big boys (tier 9-10).
 

 

Alright. How does one know that he is ready for the upper tier? To which tier I should go back to start my retraining?

 

Still, I don't understand why do I end up in fail teams?

[ColonelPete]

24 minutes ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

 

Dude, seriously - I would be long gone from this game before I have to endure a 1000 massive losses like these. 

 

And to be honest, I do not understand your point, what experience do I get, what do I learn from this? A DD is spotting me and some hidden BB citadel me. Or I try to angle as everyone advises and still get citadelled. Or I try to use a "meat shield" from teammates and still get focused down cause I am a radar cruiser and everyone hates them. Or to stay at the edge of my range and basically do too little damage. 

 

I don't see a way to play smart. It is a team game and the individual player depends on someone else but there is no coordination, it is more like a bunch of flies without heads. 

 

I watched a few replays of some players and they have a very elegant play in Randoms, I suppose they play all day long but that is a heavy price to become good and get some enjoyment of the game.

 

• Advance slower
• You are playing in a Tier range in a class where even small mistakes get you sunk
• Other people can do that, but they have MUCH more game experience than you
• you must know the maps
• you must know the enemy ships
• you must know common enemy tactics
• you must know the timing, where each enemy ship can be and if you are vulnerable at that time
• Play more Kirov and Buddy, maybe test some BB and maybe even DD

13 minutes ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

 

Alright. And one more question to complete this lecture: how does one know that he is ready for the upper tier? To which tier I should go back to start my retraining?

Get to at least 50% solo winrating, better to 55%, then advance one Tier

[lossi_2018]

 

You will get hammered posting this, but to give my 2 cents...

1 hour ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

cause I am a radar cruiser and everyone hates them

 

therein yr statement lies part of the blame (the majority is that you need more games period). Donsk is a known ship. People tent to focus fire it if it gets spotted. Nothing strange. I will shoot it or drop it if I'm in CV to get it out of a game fast. Expect much the same in the Mosk too. If you want to get a 'known' ship then expect people to focus fire you and rightly so. No one will prefer to shoot a bb when they can shoot you. Same goes for DMs, same goes for Shima's and Smolensks and etc. 

Just dont let it bother you and for what's worth everyone 'almost' is experiencing roflstomps to the point of threads being created and posts complaining about them appearing all the time, so it is part of the game unfortunately.

[TPyn_HA_PyCHAK]

24 minutes ago, lossi_2018 said:

 

You will get hammered posting this, but to give my 2 cents...

 

therein yr statement lies part of the blame (the majority is that you need more games period). Donsk is a known ship. People tent to focus fire it if it gets spotted. Nothing strange. I will shoot it or drop it if I'm in CV to get it out of a game fast. Expect much the same in the Mosk too. If you want to get a 'known' ship then expect people to focus fire you and rightly so. No one will prefer to shoot a bb when they can shoot you. Same goes for DMs, same goes for Shima's and Smolensks and etc. 

Just dont let it bother you and for what's worth everyone 'almost' is experiencing roflstomps to the point of threads being created and posts complaining about them appearing all the time, so it is part of the game unfortunately.

 

Unfortunately, I can not substitute for the lack of team play. Even though I am inexperienced. And I did not get the answer to the question of this topic. Am I the reason for the loss of my team? 

[GraySlayer]

2 hours ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

 

Alright. How does one know that he is ready for the upper tier? To which tier I should go back to start my retraining?

 

Still, I don't understand why do I end up in fail teams?

 

How does a good player with a good WR end up on winning teams?

[TPyn_HA_PyCHAK]

6 minutes ago, GraySlayer said:

 

 How does a good player with a good WR end up on winning teams?

 

I can not be the reason for the other 11 people. On many games even though losses I end up in the upper half or even in the top 3 places. 

 

I heard such thing as if someone plays only a certain ship he is placed by the MM deliberately in losing teams so that he's progress is slowed down. 

[GraySlayer]

19 minutes ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

 

I can not be the reason for the other 11 people. On many games even though losses I end up in the upper half or even in the top 3 places. 

 

I heard such thing as if someone plays only a certain ship he is placed by the MM deliberately in losing teams so that he's progress is slowed down. 

 

How does MM know which team will lose before it has happened. 

 

Anyway you didn't answer or think about my question. 

 

How does a high WR player get it and then maintain it? 

[DFens_666]

19 minutes ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

Am I the reason for the loss of my team? 

 

You have like 25 games in Donskoi - thats not a large enough amount of games to make a definite call for that. However, you only having 250 games is a big issue if you play T9 or hightiers in general. You tend to survive a lot, even if you lose most games today. That indicates, that you are sitting too far in the back, and you dont have enough impact early on. And it might be, that you dont focus the right targets and that you arent using your radar properly in the case of the donskoi.

DDs often win games, if you fail to help your DD, while the enemy cruiser does it, you put your team at a disadvantage. Farming BBs is pretty much worthless, it only looks nice when you see your damage numbers.

Not saying that this is happening, but it might be. The only way to be sure, would be to see a couple of replays.

[ForlornSailor]

37 minutes ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

I can not be the reason for the other 11 people. On many games even though losses I end up in the upper half or even in the top 3 places. 

 

To a degree you are. You are a factor in every game. I will not deny, that, especially when you play solo, your impact is limited - yet its still there. It also depends on your ship and if you manage to make the most out of it. Especially for Donskoi that might not be straight up damage/XP farming. XP in general is a little bit overrated. Ive seen Kurfürst turning their ship to the map border and shooting nothing but HE on max range - they farm easy above 100k dmg this way, get most XP, but lose. thats the tricky part of the game - to understand your role in your ship and maximize its impact. For Donskoi, thats the radar. So you need to be close to the caps. Which is hard, because Donskoi is huge, cant tank BBs, has a massive citadel, bad concealment... list goes on.

 

Anyway. If you want real constructive and factual help or a judgement, if its you or simply you had a streak of super bad teams (which IS possible btw): upload the last 2 replays of your Donskoi. Even if its not your fault in the first place, im sure you can get some nice advice on how to improve. This can short-cut your learning curve and help you get better without investing too much time in trial-and-error.

[TPyn_HA_PyCHAK]

9 hours ago, GraySlayer said:

 

How does MM know which team will lose before it has happened. 

 

Anyway you didn't answer or think about my question. 

 

How does a high WR player get it and then maintain it? 

 

I really do not know. But I am not familiar with the programers secrets. 

 

9 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

You have like 25 games in Donskoi - thats not a large enough amount of games to make a definite call for that. However, you only having 250 games is a big issue if you play T9 or hightiers in general. You tend to survive a lot, even if you lose most games today. That indicates, that you are sitting too far in the back, and you dont have enough impact early on. And it might be, that you dont focus the right targets and that you arent using your radar properly in the case of the donskoi.

DDs often win games, if you fail to help your DD, while the enemy cruiser does it, you put your team at a disadvantage. Farming BBs is pretty much worthless, it only looks nice when you see your damage numbers.

Not saying that this is happening, but it might be. The only way to be sure, would be to see a couple of replays.

 

I do not survive a lot, actually, I die mostly or I am just a breath away from destruction when the game ends.

 

As far as I understand Donskoi is not an attack ship but a support ship. Middle and long-range. That is what clan mates told me and that is what I got from youtube.

 

 If I get close behind an island I won't be able to shoot. If I am in the open to be able to shoot DDs I always get focused down. So there are rarely perfectly calculated situations where you deal damage, support and bale out safely. You always have to take risk. Donskoi also needs some support. And if the first strike is somewhat planed after that the game becomes more and more chaotic and everyone does whatever he sees fit.

 

[ShinGetsu]

What are you captain builds and ship upgrade by the way ? That's important. If you don't have the bare minimum there you'll have a hard time doing anything good. In tier 9, that means : all premium consumable (okay, maybe not the hydro), every ship upgrade slots, and at least a 14 points captain. With the good upgrade and perks of course, some perks are way more useful than others.

 

Tier 6-7 are the best to learn IMO. Tier 7 in particular is rarely downtiered to tier 9 matches, and most ships are pretty good there. It's a decent sweet spot and the gap between tier 7 and 8 ships isn't that big on cruisers and battleships.

I'd recommend learning to kite also. One of the best cruiser to learn is the Myoukou, in the IJN tech tree. The rear; 10km torpedo angle are awesome when playing in kite.

[TPyn_HA_PyCHAK]

6 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

What are you captain builds and ship upgrade by the way ? That's important. If you don't have the bare minimum there you'll have a hard time doing anything good. In tier 9, that means : all premium consumable (okay, maybe not the hydro), every ship upgrade slots, and at least a 14 points captain. With the good upgrade and perks of course, some perks are way more useful than others.

 

Tier 6-7 are the best to learn IMO. Tier 7 in particular is rarely downtiered to tier 9 matches, and most ships are pretty good there. It's a decent sweet spot and the gap between tier 7 and 8 ships isn't that big on cruisers and battleships.

I'd recommend learning to kite also. One of the best cruiser to learn is the Myoukou, in the IJN tech tree. The rear; 10km torpedo angle are awesome when playing in kite.

 

14 point captain: Priority Target, Expert Marksman, Demolition Expert, Superintendent, IFHE/ no premium consumables/ modules: main armament, damage control, aiming, no 4, concealment, gun fire control

[ShinGetsu]

3 minutes ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

 

14 point captain: Priority Target, Expert Marksman, Demolition Expert, Superintendent, IFHE/ no premium consumables

Decent build, but you should have rushed Concealment Expert + IFHE instead of DE+SE. Demolition Expert isn't that important. While you need as much stealth as you can get. Especially on cruisers.

As for premium consumable, at the bare minimum, get the premium Damage Control Party in EVERY. SINGLE. SHIP. Heal is important too due to reduced cooldown.

[TPyn_HA_PyCHAK]

13 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

Decent build, but you should have rushed Concealment Expert + IFHE instead of DE+SE. Demolition Expert isn't that important. While you need as much stealth as you can get. Especially on cruisers.

As for premium consumable, at the bare minimum, get the premium Damage Control Party in EVERY. SINGLE. SHIP. Heal is important too due to reduced cooldown.

 

Thanks! When can we expect this cruiser split?

[DFens_666]

41 minutes ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

20200309_193225_PRSC109-Dmitry-Donskoy_16_OC_bees_to_honey.wowsreplay

 

You really wonder why you lose games when you:

- Shoot your DD in spawn

- Torp your teammates SEVERAL times in one battle.

This was deliberately, not by accident.

 

With that attitude, dont ask for help. Im not gonna help someone who is trying to kill his teammates.

[BLUB__BLUB]

40 minutes ago, TPyn_HA_PyCHAK said:

I really do not know. But I am not familiar with the programers secrets. 

Neither am I but in a few days I'll have the Donskoi as well.

So far I think Buddyonny-Shchors-Chapayev has been quite a powerful increase. 

That Chapayev is kinda OP at T8, really... so maybe the Donskoi is just a disappointement?

All lines have their "flawed boat". 

[BLUB__BLUB]

10 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

You really wonder why you lose games when you:

- Shoot your DD in spawn

- Torp your teammates SEVERAL times in one battle.

This was deliberately, not by accident.

 

With that attitude, dont ask for help. Im not gonna help someone who is trying to kill his teammates.

Holy moly. We really need a "" react/vote option, I guess.