General CV related discussions.

[CptBarney]

Its an AI battle (i think) but still, uses the old game form and this vid was from late october 2019.

 

Omg its boooooooogue.

 

 

I miss her....

[BLUB__BLUB]

22 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

uses the old game form and this vid was from late october 2019.

Which is funny, because everybody said the Reeework was more gamey so they could use it on the PS4... 

[AndyHill]

What is even funnier is that PS4 version doesn't have carriers at all.

[El2aZeR]

27 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

What is even funnier is that PS4 version doesn't have carriers at all.

 

In fact due to how the rework performed on PC the Legends devs are questioning whether they want to have CVs at all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

At least that's what they said last gamescom I believe.

[AndyHill]

Oh they said that out loud? I was sure they'd never implement carriers - at least unless someone on the PC team whined until some big boss forced them to - but I would never have expected them to state that in public. Is there some kind of a link to the statement or something?

[powerzuff]

2 hours ago, AndyHill said:

Blitz has basically RTS carriers  

I am so happy that this RTS is gone in WOWS

[CptBarney]

49 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

In fact due to how the rework performed on PC the Legends devs are questioning whether they want to have CVs at all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

At least that's what they said last gamescom I believe.

Is there a link to that? Even if they still add them in we can spam the clip for memes.

Carriers might be a thing in UA:D (although i seriously doubt it) if the legends team has brains they would steer clear from CV's altogether and even subs, allowing them to add BC's and even SC's as seperate classes.

[El2aZeR]

5 hours ago, AndyHill said:

Is there some kind of a link to the statement or something?

5 hours ago, CptBarney said:

Is there a link to that?

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WoWs_Legends/comments/cz5tmv/psa_gamescom_announcements_faq/

 

Quote

With Submarines being announced for PC, is Legends planning on following the same development path, CVs being the next class to arrive? Are submarines something you consider too?
Currently, we're actually debating whether we want carriers in Legends, but if they are to arrive it's not until the latter part of 2020. No plans for submarines whatsoever at this moment.

 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

I was taken down by a Lexi in my T7 DD. Screenshot below. I can live with this. He used bombers, his RNG was favorable, hit me with 4 in 3 runs (cuz DD AA is crap why not) and started 2 permafires after I had to repair my engine/rudder when the first volly hit. It's still onesided bullshait, don't get me wrong, but bombing me like this takes a bit of skill and a bit of luck and me messing up. A well deserved kill.

 

So who the hell needs rocketplanes if this is possible? And yeah, some carriers have AP and will be less effective. So what? My DD guns are mostly useless against a CV hull too. WG why are you so bad at designing gameplay?

[steveraptor]

6 hours ago, Europizza said:

I was taken down by a Lexi in my T7 DD. Screenshot below. I can live with this. He used bombers, his RNG was favorable, hit me with 4 in 3 runs (cuz DD AA is crap why not) and started 2 permafires after I had to repair my engine/rudder when the first volly hit. It's still onesided bullshait, don't get me wrong, but bombing me like this takes a bit of skill and a bit of luck and me messing up. A well deserved kill.

 

So who the hell needs rocketplanes if this is possible? And yeah, some carriers have AP and will be less effective. So what? My DD guns are mostly useless against a CV hull too. WG why are you so bad at designing gameplay?

Because bombing DD is based on:

 

1) 70% RNG

2) 30% dependency of the target being a [Edited] and sailing in a straight line, allow the CV player to line up a perfect drop (and even then the RNG can screw you over) 

 

 

Rockets provide the only reliable mean for a CV player to deal damage to DDs.

 

**EDITED: Lets keep it a nice. - Immoxb**

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

10 minutes ago, steveraptor said:

Because bombing DD is based on:

 

1) 70% RNG

2) 30% dependency of the target being a total idiot and sailing in a straight line, allow the CV player to line up a perfect drop (and even then the RNG can screw you over) 

 

 

Rockets provide the only reliable mean for a CV player to deal damage to DDs.

Ah 70% is that something you looked up or made up? Also, didnt sail in a straight line, was actively 'just dodge' so the 30% is another fantasy digit. You just RNG tricked your own brain :D

Everything in this game is heavily RNG. Let me ask you a question: why do carriers need a highly reliable weapon against DD's?

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Europizza said:

So what? My DD guns are mostly useless against a CV hull too.

Well you have torps,. ad nd the Cv can detect you only form your normal detection range. 

If you shut down your AA, 2.5km and most CVs will overshoot. They have to turn around and find you again. 

Yesterday I used a full squad of rockets on Ryujo against a DD. Even as such, I could only half-kill him. 

Couldn't find him afterwards and he sunk 2 BBs. Well played for him.

 

Found another DD and he smoked up. But I managed to torp him. 

 

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, steveraptor said:

Because bombing DD is based on:

 

1) 70% RNG

2) 30% dependency of the target being a total idiot and sailing in a straight line, allow the CV player to line up a perfect drop (and even then the RNG can screw you over) 

 

RNG can be mitigated by aiming correctly.

HE DBs can turn without accuracy penalty and thus adjust to whatever maneuvers a surface ship may make.

[Ruhenot]

This probably came up a lot during the 67 pages here, sorry if it did, but what do you guys think is the "best" T10 CV and why?

I often hear that the Haku is broken due to AP bombs, but I always see a lot of Midways, and rarely any Audacious'.. Wonder why that is?

[AndyHill]

Midway is the choice if you need training wheels, TiTs and bombs are effortless to land and nowadays even the torps are effective. Haku has a higher skill ceiling, but you need to know how to land those hard hitting bombs to be effective with it. However, if your only thing is stacking DoTs on stationary battleships, Audacious is ...almost as good as Midway.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well you have torps,. ad nd the Cv can detect you only form your normal detection range. 

If you shut down your AA, 2.5km and most CVs will overshoot. They have to turn around and find you again. 

Yesterday I used a full squad of rockets on Ryujo against a DD. Even as such, I could only half-kill him. 

Couldn't find him afterwards and he sunk 2 BBs. Well played for him.

 

Found another DD and he smoked up. But I managed to torp him. 

 

DD's have torps, again, so what? Carriers have torps. They have bombs. Carriers don't need rockets. At all.

So you were bad with rockets once. And a DD sat in smoke waiting to get torped once. Carriers will overshoot the first time, that's it. Jervis AA range < Jervis detection range and you are bringing up the moldy 'turn off the AA' tip?

 

I didn't mind getting bombed and killed in my Jervis. What it reminded me of is that carriers don't need the silly rockets. At all. They are redundant.

 

Why, I ask again, do carriers need a reliable weapon against DD's (and every other class for that matter) where everything else in this game is RNG up the butt?

[steveraptor]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

RNG can be mitigated by aiming correctly.

HE DBs can turn without accuracy penalty and thus adjust to whatever maneuvers a surface ship may make.

Can you elaborate?

 

If the DD is turning broadside to you and jamming hes Q/E and giving you broadside, than even doing what Yoshanai posted in hes video does not guarantee reliable hits and you can't drop a perfect bow/stern.

 

The drop pattern is also unpredictable, sometimes even on perfect drop (e.g. stern/bow in 80% coverage) all bombs end up on the edges of the reticle..... 

 

I tried to figure the drop/dispersion pattern in training battles but i couldn't notice any behavior to take advantage of.

[Sporkie_]

Ran into an F.D.Roosevelt on the public live server today, probably being captained by a super tester. 

Bullied it with Hakuryu torps far too easily and was able to weave in and out of it's flak more easily than with the other T10 CVs. 
 

 

[steveraptor]

3 minutes ago, Sporkie_ said:

Ran into an F.D.Roosevelt on the public live server today, probably being captained by a super tester. 

Bullied it with Hakuryu torps far too easily and was able to weave in and out of it's flak more easily than with the other T10 CVs. 
 

 

Nothing special in this video, you can do it in any CV to another CV.

And all you accomplish in that is losing all your torpedo bombers.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Europizza said:

DD's have torps, again, so what? Carriers have torps. They have bombs. Carriers don't need rockets. At all.

So you were bad with rockets once. And a DD sat in smoke waiting to get torped once. Carriers will overshoot the first time, that's it. Jervis AA range < Jervis detection range and you are bringing up the moldy 'turn off the AA' tip?

Nope, not "bad with rocket once". All you can expect from Ryujo rockets is ~2.5k max. 

SO, even if you make three attacks from one flight (and most CVs can't do it) it is not enough . 

What 'reliable method'? And does a Jervis have 2.4 km AA range? 

It also has most smokes in tier. 

 

1 hour ago, Europizza said:

I didn't mind getting bombed and killed in my Jervis. What it reminded me of is that carriers don't need the silly rockets. At all. They are redundant.

But then DDs wouldn't need more torps than to kill half a BB? 

Oh wait BBs are the fattest. Maybe DDs would get torps enough to kill half a DD, then. 

 

1 hour ago, Europizza said:

Why, I ask again, do carriers need a reliable weapon against DD's (and every other class for that matter) where everything else in this game is RNG up the butt?

Reliable....  yes, on some CVs. And then they have carpet bombs, too. 

 

Seriously man. I have seen you use reasonable arguments plenty often enough. But this isn't one. 

It's more a general "nerf Cv". You could do better. 

 

 

 

[El2aZeR]

2 hours ago, steveraptor said:

Can you elaborate?

 

If the DD is turning broadside to you and jamming hes Q/E and giving you broadside, than even doing what Yoshanai posted in hes video does not guarantee reliable hits and you can't drop a perfect bow/stern.

 

In Midway bombs have a 75% chance to go to the edge of the reticle rather than the center (afaik at least).

So what you need to do is aim off center rather than keeping the DD in the middle of your reticle. It is likewise beneficial if the DD is slightly angled rather than being straight in.

It's not a 100% accurate solution, but I found a lot of success with it. It also heavily depends on how fat a DD is. DDs like Kleber, Haru and Halland usually take several hits easily, a Kagero meanwhile will still be a pure RNGfest.

 

If you anticipate the turn and know how your own planes will turn you can basically create a situation in which the enemy DD will turn into a near perfect drop solution for you. Even attacking from a 90° angle is possible.

It is admittedly a rather difficult thing to do though.

Here's an example of a turn in an attack, although the enemy DD in question didn't maneuver:

[Deckeru_Maiku]

17 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

In Midway bombs have a 75% chance to go to the edge of the reticle rather than the center (afaik at least).

So what you need to do is aim off center rather than keeping the DD in the middle of your reticle.

It's not a 100% accurate solution, but I found a lot of success with it. It also heavily depends on how fat a DD is. DDs like Kleber, Haru and Halland usually take several hits easily, a Kagero meanwhile will still be a pure RNGfest.

 

If you anticipate the turn and know how your own planes will turn you can basically create a situation in which the enemy DD will turn into a near perfect drop solution for you. Even attacking from a 90° angle is possible.

It is admittedly a rather difficult thing to do though.

Here's an example of a turn in an attack, although the enemy DD in question didn't maneuver:

 

 

I'd wish you would stop educating them CV players on how to be an even greater pita for poor helpless DD players like me :P

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Nope, not "bad with rocket once". All you can expect from Ryujo rockets is ~2.5k max. 

SO, even if you make three attacks from one flight (and most CVs can't do it) it is not enough . 

What 'reliable method'? And does a Jervis have 2.4 km AA range? 

It also has most smokes in tier. 

 

But then DDs wouldn't need more torps than to kill half a BB? 

Oh wait BBs are the fattest. Maybe DDs would get torps enough to kill half a DD, then. 

 

Reliable....  yes, on some CVs. And then they have carpet bombs, too. 

 

Seriously man. I have seen you use reasonable arguments plenty often enough. But this isn't one. 

It's more a general "nerf Cv". You could do better. 

 

 

 

Blub, you're a nice guy, I like you. But there isn't a single argument made in your answer as of why carriers need rockets. All i hear is anecdotal 'rockets arent all that' and you're pointing to a tier what, 6? What were you fighting? A tier 8 DD? That is no way to make an argument. I also don't understand what you are blubbing about DD's and BB's. Forgive me not understanding the point you are trying to make about 'half a BB'? What does that have to do with rockets?

If carriers were stripped of their rockets, which they should be, there will have to be made alterations to compensate the loss of loadout. So more bombers and maybe even a more reliable strike pattern on DD's.

 

You know rockets are reliable weapons. When you see a low HP of anything, DD, BB, CA, you grab a pair of rockets to finish it off. Why? Because it's reliable.

 

PS: My jervis: 2.5 km AA range, 2.7 km air detectability. And again. This is not about me getting HE bombed to bits. I am fine with that as mentioned.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, Europizza said:

Blub, you're a nice guy, I like you. But there isn't a single argument made in your answer as of why carriers need rockets. All i hear is anecdotal 'rockets arent all that' and you're pointing to a tier what, 6? What were you fighting? A tier 8 DD?

I think you're quite likable too, FWIW. I have most CVs but you don't point out which one you mean. 

I can assure you that on some of them, I'd rather use bombs or torps on DDs anyway. 

So yes you can delete the rockets for all I care. But is that your whole statement? I'd find that disappointing.
 

1 minute ago, Europizza said:

That is no way to make an argument. I also don't understand what you are blubbing about DD's and BB's. Forgive me not understanding the point you are trying to make about 'half the torpedoes? What does that have to do with anything?

If carriers were stripped of their rockets, which they should be, there will have to be made alterations to compensate the loss of loadout. So more bombers and maybe even a more reliable strike pattern on DD's.

Ah now you are sounding more reasonable. I'd also gladly change them for depthcharges when (not if...) we get subs. 

 

With DDs and BBs I mean, your DD usually can kill a BB with one full load. Or damage him so much you can finish him off with guns.

When you do that correctly, that BB will not even know where they came from, he never spots you. He has no chance to escape, you are faster.

It is easy to complain about something else being OP. But you can see the planes coming 10km away. 

And you have methods to hide, more than that BB. Besides that some CVs can't even kill you. 

There's some CVs that even three good strikes on a DD will not kill a DD. Not all., but quite a few.

That BB can do no damage on you at all, if you play it correctly. Yet... you complain. You do not play BB?

 

Some DDs sneak up on a CV, and then kill him. Or spot him and have their BB mates kill him. 

What is the CV supposed to do if all he has is bombs and torps, while his planes not even spot torpedoes?

What you posted is quite a bit one-sided. 

 

1 minute ago, Europizza said:

You know rockets are reliable weapons. When you see a low HP of anything, DD, BB, CA, you grab a pair of rockets to finish it off. Why? Because it's reliable.

Well... you should maybe play some CV yourself. Yes some you can "realiably" hit anything with rockets. 

Then there's some you have to be careful (not steer the last seconds... when they avoid) or they will not hit the side of a barn even if they were in it.

The reticule will certainly grow bigger than a DD. And lots of times I tried to finish a BB but could not, because there is RNG. 

 

I do play some DD, too. Quite badly... however I manage to avoid most CVs (damn radar cruisers though...).

 

 

 

 

 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

33 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I think you're quite likable too, FWIW. I have most CVs but you don't point out which one you mean. 

I can assure you that on some of them, I'd rather use bombs or torps on DDs anyway. 

So yes you can delete the rockets for all I care. But is that your whole statement? I'd find that disappointing.
 

Ah now you are sounding more reasonable. I'd also gladly change them for depthcharges when (not if...) we get subs. 

 

With DDs and BBs I mean, your DD usually can kill a BB with one full load. Or damage him so much you can finish him off with guns.

When you do that correctly, that BB will not even know where they came from, he never spots you. He has no chance to escape, you are faster.

It is easy to complain about something else being OP. But you can see the planes coming 10km away. 

And you have methods to hide, more than that BB. Besides that some CVs can't even kill you. 

There's some CVs that even three good strikes on a DD will not kill a DD. Not all., but quite a few.

That BB can do no damage on you at all, if you play it correctly. Yet... you complain. You do not play BB?

 

Some DDs sneak up on a CV, and then kill him. Or spot him and have their BB mates kill him. 

What is the CV supposed to do if all he has is bombs and torps, while his planes not even spot torpedoes?

What you posted is quite a bit one-sided. 

 

Well... you should maybe play some CV yourself. Yes some you can "realiably" hit anything with rockets. 

Then there's some you have to be careful (not steer the last seconds... when they avoid) or they will not hit the side of a barn even if they were in it.

The reticule will certainly grow bigger than a DD. And lots of times I tried to finish a BB but could not, because there is RNG. 

 

I do play some DD, too. Quite badly... however I manage to avoid most CVs (damn radar cruisers though...).

 

 

 

 

 

I don't usually go off in big paragraphs of writing so I'll try to keep it short.

 

Yes, the whole point is: remove rocket planes from this game. They are pathetic and redundant. Being bombed to the bottom of the sea by HE bombers reminded me of that.

 

I am talking about ALL carriers, NONE of them need rockets. They can be balanced better and made way more fun (challanging) without.

 

If a DD snuck up to a carrier, the DD has been useless for at least 5 to 10 minutes and a decrement to its team. And if the carrier didn't realise he was being snuck up on, or is too far away from his team to be supported , that CV deserves a pummeling. Sad thing is, most DD's can't even kill a full health carrier by their own unless they get lucky with torps, which really arent all that hard to dodge. Carriers are not a defenseless blind puppies when they only have bombers and torpedoes, unless they mis play badly. When they do, they deserve to sink like everyone else.

 

I also play DD, a lot, and I am not too bothered by carriers in general when sailing around avoiding them mostly. End up top 3 in DD more often then not with carriers around. But the rockets, and the silly damage rule exemptions carriers get, to make them just playable, are a soure sight for my weary eyes. I will never get used to seeing gameplay design this bad in my (once) favorite game enviroment.

 

Don't get me started about being one-sided especially when we are discussing rocket planes vs. non AA savvy DD's which is almost all of them. I am not in camp DD in this discussion, I want carriers to be fun, and want to like them. I don't because they are boring the hell out of me.