General CV related discussions.

[Nov_A]

1 hour ago, FloatingTarget said:

Okay and? That doesn't make the points any less relevant.

For the game and the playerbase or for WG?

 

It took them 2 years to notice plus the years prior the problems already existed, until they announced to at least intend adressing the spotting sometime in the future.

They dont care, make incosistent changes/nerfs and quench the vocal minority's mouthfoam with a "we are working on the spotting, no additional info" DevBlog statement.

 

1 hour ago, FloatingTarget said:

What I'm getting from this topic is that any attempt or conversation about balancing CVs so they are not sky cancer is met by CV players with "No! Noob! Stop crying! Just leave the game! Any criticism is moaning! There's nothing wrong with them!" 

Pretty sure at this point most CV players are just here to meme on people that cant accept that WG does not really care. Actual questions are usually answered in a good manner, as were written many hundreds posts of constructive criticism by said players and their experience. Yet from time to time somebody seems to find the holy grail of CV balance or another one pulls the 49% Excalibur out of the stone and crowns himself King of CV buffs.

 

The entire "conversation" about the CV rework/current iteration is more of a stages of grief thing with different forum users in various places.

[Panzer_Guido]

2 hours ago, Nov_A said:

vocal minority's mouthfoam

I dont't disagree with you overall, but the whole "vocal minority" thing is a fallacy. We have no indication whatsoever that the acceptance of CVs in the quiet majority is any higher. more people would play them if they were well liked, right?

[Woof_for_Me]

1 hour ago, Panzer_Guido said:

I dont't disagree with you overall, but the whole "vocal minority" thing is a fallacy. We have no indication whatsoever that the acceptance of CVs in the quiet majority is any higher. more people would play them if they were well liked, right?

There are more CV players playing than the ones complaining. That's a good start to determine if it's a vocal minority or not.

[Captain_Lootbox]

1 hour ago, Woof_for_Me said:

There are more CV players playing than the ones complaining. That's a good start to determine if it's a vocal minority or not.

I dont believe that at all.

[Nibenay78]

On 1/14/2023 at 4:09 PM, WingedHussar_Adler said:

Cause complaining is so productive 😌 

So are these forums, but we are both here 

[Nov_A]

14 hours ago, Panzer_Guido said:

I dont't disagree with you overall, but the whole "vocal minority" thing is a fallacy.

I dont think so.

 

It is mostly the same people, saying the same things to each other and themselves in the echo chamber which is the forum, 3rd party sites like Reddit or the YouTube comment section of certain (ex?) CCs. Those are the ones that can actually be bothered to voice their opinion, as they are/were either passionate about the game or at least dedicated to it, or to summarize, they cared about the game at any point in its lifespan. If their discontent would be in higher/significant numbers, it would affect the game or at least monetary aspects and with that also WG to a much greater extent than now, hypocrites excluded.

Yet despite the negative tone, WG keeps getting away with not only ignoring complaints and issues that have been around for years, they also keep implementing and changing the game however they like, usually not for the better - and they clearly do it out of monetary interest, not pure joy of developing.

People make fun of the "silent majority", as WG used it as an excuse of positive reception after testing the submarines on the live server, but there is a reason why WG can do all of its whacky shenanigans in the face of the negative reception, which I presume to be just be a "vocal minority". For WG, there is an economically feasable amount of players that do not care about the game. They play, they pay and just need new, happy chemical rewarding additions to keep on doing so. They dont care about CV balance, they dont care about subs. Those are players with 50 or 50'000 games that either drop or stay hot, but leave some money while doing so.

Of course, all of this is just an assumption, but there has to be a reason why WG does - and can keep on doing WG things. I dont want to write a book on it right now, maybe in a more dedicated thread, but my bet is on a large, fluctuating grey mass of players (with money) that do not care what happens in the game, making the people voicing their opinion, be it in a negative or positive way about certain topics, just a vocal minority. Still, feel free to share your ideas tho.

 

14 hours ago, Panzer_Guido said:

We have no indication whatsoever that the acceptance of CVs in the quiet majority is any higher. more people would play them if they were well liked, right?

We dont, but it is safe to assume CV "acceptance" is much lower than the discontent, even if you remove the echo chambers suppressing negative pretone. CV popularity links into CV accessibility, which many people overlook in their own rendition of how to balance the current iteration. Since CVs differ greatly from regular surface ship gameplay (same as subs do), their respective player numbers are rather low, the people actually playing them are either dedicated to it, or research, grind and shelve them. Yet WG seems to be happy with a slice of ~5% for both classes, again raising the suspicion of my previous silent majority assumption, because as long as the money is flowing, WG is okay with anything.

[Panzer_Guido]

On 1/14/2023 at 10:31 PM, Woof_for_Me said:

There are more CV players playing than the ones complaining. That's a good start to determine if it's a vocal minority or not.

absolutely not. From the people that I know and play with there are maybe 2 persons that play CVs. Most of my mates hate carriers with a passion. So in my personal experience 90% hate CV and disapprove of it. Personal experiences vary. Believing a thing is not knowing a thing. But projecting your own view on the quiet majority is an easy "argument", as is labeling the other side of the argument a "vocal minority".

 

It is not an argument but a rhetorical instrument.

 

[Woof_for_Me]

10 minutes ago, Panzer_Guido said:

absolutely not. From the people that I know and play with there are maybe 2 persons that play CVs. Most of my mates hate carriers with a passion. So in my personal experience 90% hate CV and disapprove of it. Personal experiences vary. Believing a thing is not knowing a thing. But projecting your own view on the quiet majority is an easy "argument", as is labeling the other side of the argument a "vocal minority".

 

It is not an argument but a rhetorical instrument.

 

Upscaling from your anecdotal "evidence" is what's flawed. 

You should take a look at what Nov_A posted. He for some reason put a lot of effort into this big spiral which is called General CV related Discussions.

 

[WingedHussar_Adler]

57 minutes ago, Panzer_Guido said:

absolutely not. From the people that I know and play with there are maybe 2 persons that play CVs. Most of my mates hate carriers with a passion. So in my personal experience 90% hate CV and disapprove of it. Personal experiences vary. Believing a thing is not knowing a thing. But projecting your own view on the quiet majority is an easy "argument", as is labeling the other side of the argument a "vocal minority".

 

It is not an argument but a rhetorical instrument.

 

Personal experience is worst statistical data ever

[Panzer_Guido]

8 hours ago, WingedHussar_Adler said:

Personal experience is worst statistical data ever

yeah and I said not to use it. I was making my point NOT saying use my anecdotal data. That should have been clear as I said it is a rhetorical instrument. Pretty obvious actually. 

 

Edit: to make it easy for some of us:

 

anecdotal evidence > bad

 

saying critics is only a vocal minority > bad

 

saying most players like CV without data to back up > bad

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

2 hours ago, Panzer_Guido said:

saying critics is only a vocal minority > bad

 

saying most players like CV without data to back up > bad

the opposite applies. 

 

 

Saying critics are a majority = bad

 

saying most players hate CV without data to back it up = bad

[Farheim]

Absolutely cursed ship

.

[Nov_A]

5 minutes ago, Farheim said:

Absolutely cursed ship

.

Ouch!

[BLUB__BLUB]

Maybe you're using Kaga with the "Spezjul Potjato Attracksjun" camo? Hot damn!

[WingedHussar_Adler]

10 hours ago, Farheim said:

Absolutely cursed ship

.

there are 2 posibilities

 

A) - bad luck, you just can not do anything when highest WRR in rest of the team is 46%.....had alot of this kind of games....probably this happens

b) - farming bbs and having smallest inflence on reasualt of game but high dmg score

[BLUB__BLUB]

50 minutes ago, WingedHussar_Adler said:

b) - farming bbs and having smallest inflence on reasualt of game but high dmg score

You do not get that fat PR if you do that. I'm voting A.

[SurfaceFish]

Sample size is too small, 47% WR in 21 games means you won10 out of 21 games. If you won 3 instead of lost 3, your WR would have been 62%. So it's just a bad start or bad MM. 

 

I given up on the Parseval after 2 games with 0% WR! She is terrible at dealing alpha damage. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

17 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

 

I given up on the Parseval after 2 games with 0% WR! She is terrible at dealing alpha damage.

 

The thing with Parseval is you need to GitGud with those rockets and blap cruisers. 
Other CVs are better though so if the reds have that, well you're in for a paddling.

[SurfaceFish]

7 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

 

The thing with Parseval is you need to GitGud with those rockets and blap cruisers. 
Other CVs are better though so if the reds have that, well you're in for a paddling.

Thanks, I just don't like the RNG of the AP bombs. Since WG rocket plane rework, the AP planes shoot from a sharper angle now, so you have to be pixel perfect to aim at waterline. Also any dirt under your planes will make the aim reticle overshoot. German CV line is too frustrating for me to put in the effort. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, SurfaceFish said:

Thanks, I just don't like the RNG of the AP bombs. Since WG rocket plane rework, the AP planes shoot from a sharper angle now, so you have to be pixel perfect to aim at waterline. Also any dirt under your planes will make the aim reticle overshoot. German CV line is too frustrating for me to put in the effort. 

Yeah I do not like 'em much either. The only thing they have is those rockets.
Can;t slam BBs, v can;t get DDs (though I do, using the torps). WeeGee hates Germany.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

You do not get that fat PR if you do that. I'm voting A.

Well DMG is most important factor in strong PR.....but I think it is A too

[Juuzaam]

Vor 3 Stunden, WingedHussar_Adler sagte:

b) - farming bbs and having smallest inflence on reasualt of game but high dmg score

This playerbase. Farming BBs is a working strategy. Source: Me. A CV player that farms BB with a solo WR above 60%. What is your source to claim that farming doesnt work? Your own experience? Or the copied thoughts of someone else that doesnt play Carriers? Farming works, for reasons the playerbase doesnt want to admit.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

3 minutes ago, Juuzaam said:

This playerbase. Farming BBs is a working strategy. Source: Me. A CV player that farms BB with a solo WR above 60%. What is your source to claim that farming doesnt work? Your own experience? Or the copied thoughts of someone else that doesnt play Carriers? Farming works, for reasons the playerbase doesnt want to admit.

You- not so great player as you thought ofyourself OBVIOUSLY. 

 

Farming dmg iw never ever best way to get wins. If you need explanation why you can do 150.000 dmg to conqueror where he is still alive and do 0 for team, you need some serious thinking about your strategy

[SurfaceFish]

7 minutes ago, WingedHussar_Adler said:

Farming dmg iw never ever best way to get wins.

Depending how good you are playing CV. Some of us focus on helping the team by targeting DD and camping radar cruisers. So our WR is good but damage is average. 

 

Then there are very good CV players can pump out so much damage in a short amount of time they gain victory by farming damage. 

 

TopTier (TTier) is one of those CV player I'd say is a damage farmer. But her still has purple stats In WR and damage. You can checkout his video on YouTube under TopTier. 

[WingedHussar_Adler]

1 minute ago, SurfaceFish said:

Depending how good you are playing CV. Some of us focus on helping the team by targeting DD and camping radar cruisers. So our WR is good but damage is average. 

 

Then there are very good CV players can pump out so much damage in a short amount of time they gain victory by farming damage. 

 

TopTier (TTier) is one of those CV player I'd say is a damage farmer. But her still has purple stats In WR and damage. You can checkout his video on YouTube under TopTier. 

Average 130.000 dmg on tX is not enought to kill 1 TX bbs in most cases. 

 

Same average 130.000 dmg to dds and cruisers = 2/3 dead nemies. 

 

It is quite easy math