General CV related discussions.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

3 minutes ago, MixuS said:

No I don't, just needed to vent my frustration to this idiocy. Besides don't have a replay. But do you really think a BB can do anything against a RU CV? Or any other CV for that matter.

it always depends on the situation. In some cases yes, in specific others not. Thats why I ask for replays before I judge you 

[Juuzaam]

Vor 8 Stunden, MixuS sagte:

No I don't, just needed to vent my frustration to this idiocy. Besides don't have a replay. But do you really think a BB can do anything against a RU CV? Or any other CV for that matter.

 I started playing carriers to understand how to play against these or at least survive a bit longer. Unfortunately i got corrupted and joined them, mea culpa. But the important part, you do 100% things wrong you are not even aware of. These are things only a CV player knows. When a CV player with a 70+% WR offers you to recap a match just to tell you what you did wrong, you are about to learn something.

 

[JohnMac79]

58 minutes ago, Juuzaam said:

When a CV player with a 70+% WR offers you to recap a match just to tell you what you did wrong, you are about to learn something

 

Like what? The best CV players (the ones who are honest at least) will simply say there was nothing you could do because if the CV wants you dead, you are dead. There is no valid advice available, if you blob up with your team, you still get attacked anyway, only your game becomes much, much more boring.

 

They do provide a laugh though, the funniest one is when CV mains try to tell you about positioning while sat behind an island or on the 1 line...

[Juuzaam]

Vor 9 Stunden, JohnMac79 sagte:

There is no valid advice available

 

We got 2 different opinions about what a valid advice is. What the playerbase wants, is an effective way to win against a carrier, like pressing a button and deleting all the planes. Turns out, this is not possible and i dont see any reason to talk about this for the fifth time in just this week. We all know by now, unless you are bit special, that carriers are broken per design and also fairly overpowered, at the same time. So can we please not repeat the same discusion again, that you want a button to delete planes, but this button doesnt exist, and instead come to the conclusion that there are still ways to not get killed in 2 squads. Possible advices wont make you win against every carrier, but prevent getting killed easily by everyone.

 

In fact, the vast majority is simply using fighters wrong, because they are clueless idiots. If fighters would automaticly launch when the DCP cooldown is at 45s, it would do way more than the playerbase does with it atm.  They also dont know how DFAA changes the approach of a CV or why certain super unicums take DFAA on ships like Moskva and Nevsky. How to use sector reinforcement, and here it comes(!) when to not use sector reinforcement because you make the planes take less damage. (How is this possible?!?!?!) On top we got these genius that DCP a single fire and dont know when and why it is wrong, someone with 51% WR is able to tell you why. But what about the updated version, what kind of thought process decides which button you press when you take 2! fires from a CV and why (spoiler: You should press heal way more often than you think instead of DCP because your DCP and the cooldown is your insurance to not get send to port imediatly). I started playing a few months ago again and by now i griefed or deleted a few known WoWs players, streamers and so on, people with up to 30k+ matches, self proclaimed all known unicums and ofcourse vocal CV haters (which is understandable, so i am not judging). Even these dont know how to play against a carrier and it is their (also your) ignorance to not use the knowledge of CV players that causes this.

 

Once i wrote a guide on reddit, what not to do and why. Explained evey basic thing, nobody was able to tell me when i struggeled against Carriers, which was the reason to begin carriers for me.  As a reward, i was downvoted, insulted in the thread, in private messages, even stalked on discords and the ingame chat from the super salty playerbase. Thats a quite questionable behaviour, to complain about a problem at one side, but also derailing any argument from people that know the other, that only this playerbase can do. I have never seen such a thing in other games. /rant

[Yosha_AtaIante]

yep its quite toxic. Its really impressive to what lengths these defeatists will go to try to silence reason 

 

honestly the individual that has problems and rather listens to the "there is nothing u can do" crowd is at fault for this too. He could take the advice and try it, what is he going to lose? But its always easier to just scream about it for years. Its clear now that CVs aren't going to go away  they will always plague you. So your choice is to adapt to them or not to play. You can also endlessly complain of course and be as toxic as to harass then on forums and private messages

[JohnMac79]

7 hours ago, Juuzaam said:

What the playerbase wants, is an effective way to win against a carrier, like pressing a button and deleting all the planes.

 

Not sure why you feel the need to lie. What the player base wants is a counter, which currently doesnt exist. AA is trash, grouping up doesnt work and makes the game boring, def AA doesnt cause a scatter, the turnaround on planes is too fast, they spot too much...

 

7 hours ago, Juuzaam said:

So can we please not repeat the same discusion again, that you want a button to delete planes

 

I have never, ever, not once claimed this. Again, stop lying.

 

7 hours ago, Juuzaam said:

In fact, the vast majority is simply using fighters wrong, because they are clueless idiots.

 

Imagine implying fighter planes are not completely useless... and you are calling people clueless idiots...

 

7 hours ago, Juuzaam said:

If fighters would automaticly launch when the DCP cooldown is at 45s, it would do way more than the playerbase does with it atm.  They also dont know how DFAA changes the approach of a CV or why certain super unicums take DFAA on ships like Moskva and Nevsky. How to use sector reinforcement, and here it comes(!) when to not use sector reinforcement because you make the planes take less damage. (How is this possible?!?!?!) On top we got these genius that DCP a single fire and dont know when and why it is wrong, someone with 51% WR is able to tell you why. But what about the updated version, what kind of thought process decides which button you press when you take 2! fires from a CV and why (spoiler: You should press heal way more often than you think instead of DCP because your DCP and the cooldown is your insurance to not get send to port imediatly)

 

Thanks for the tips, now i will certainly be able to counter CV...

 

7 hours ago, Juuzaam said:

 I started playing a few months ago again and by now i griefed or deleted a few known WoWs players, streamers and so on, people with up to 30k+ matches, self proclaimed all known unicums and ofcourse vocal CV haters (which is understandable, so i am not judging). Even these dont know how to play against a carrier and it is their (also your) ignorance to not use the knowledge of CV players that causes this.

 

7 hours ago, Juuzaam said:

We all know by now, unless you are bit special, that carriers are broken per design and also fairly overpowered, at the same time

 

 

7 hours ago, Juuzaam said:

Once i wrote a guide on reddit, what not to do and why. Explained evey basic thing, nobody was able to tell me when i struggeled against Carriers, which was the reason to begin carriers for me.  As a reward, i was downvoted, insulted in the thread, in private messages...

 

Explained every basic thing... Ok.

 

7 hours ago, Juuzaam said:

I have never seen such a thing in other games.

 

Me too, i have never seen such an imbalance in a game before like CV's and subs.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

9 hours ago, Juuzaam said:

 

We got 2 different opinions about what a valid advice is. What the playerbase wants, is an effective way to win against a carrier, like pressing a button and deleting all the planes. Turns out, this is not possible and i dont see any reason to talk about this for the fifth time in just this week. We all know by now, unless you are bit special, that carriers are broken per design and also fairly overpowered, at the same time. So can we please not repeat the same discusion again, that you want a button to delete planes, but this button doesnt exist, and instead come to the conclusion that there are still ways to not get killed in 2 squads.

False dilemma much?

[EgyptOverseer]

9 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

yep its quite toxic. Its really impressive to what lengths these defeatists will go to try to silence reason 

 

honestly the individual that has problems and rather listens to the "there is nothing u can do" crowd is at fault for this too. He could take the advice and try it, what is he going to lose? But its always easier to just scream about it for years. Its clear now that CVs aren't going to go away  they will always plague you. So your choice is to adapt to them or not to play. You can also endlessly complain of course and be as toxic as to harass then on forums and private messages

I can confirm that after stopping playing I am no longer afflicted by sky cancer or flashbacks, not by underwater cancer. When a developer introduces a toxic mechanic aimed at frustrating players and rewarding those that can't win on skill alone, the only solution is to quit, otherwise the developer will not change their approach.

 

Moaning does nothing, but don't underestimate the level of frustration of the playerbase, and WG should be thankful for those that complaint and moan but still playbecause they keep this game alive.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

11 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said:

 

Moaning does nothing, but don't underestimate the level of frustration of the playerbase, and WG should be thankful for those that complaint and moan but still playbecause they keep this game alive.

No one needs to be thankful for such bunch honestly. Even if they all quit, they would as probably would you... be disappointed about how little the dent would be it would leave on the health of the game. On this forum alone the amount of people if they left would probably not be more than 200 at best. That's insignificant. To even think that you are of any importance to the game is laughable. So please get off that high horse of thinking that players who dislike the game and keep playing while moaning are doing this game any favors. All most of these complainers are doing is being really toxic. Just look at the behavior of some of these people on the forum. Try to view it objectively for once. The CV players or players who like the game are not the ones being rude and alienating people that's for sure...

[EgyptOverseer]

19 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

No one needs to be thankful for such bunch honestly. Even if they all quit, they would as probably would you... be disappointed about how little the dent would be it would leave on the health of the game. On this forum alone the amount of people if they left would probably not be more than 200 at best. That's insignificant. To even think that you are of any importance to the game is laughable. So please get off that high horse of thinking that players who dislike the game and keep playing while moaning are doing this game any favors. All most of these complainers are doing is being really toxic. Just look at the behavior of some of these people on the forum. Try to view it objectively for once. The CV players or players who like the game are not the ones being rude and alienating people that's for sure...

Had you taken time to read my post, you would have seen that I already left the game. I am making an argument for those still playing even though they have to tolerate classes designed to frustrate skilled players and reward poor players. The only high horse is the one you are ridding on. 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Here is a little technique for all the CV players struggling to hit DDs with HE bombs. Always drop with one half of the reticle. This way you guarantee at least 1 bomb to hit per drop and if you are lucky you get the majority of bombs to hit.
Have fun punching small boats with big bombs effectively

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1060554072073179186/1061445772635287602/HEDB2.mp4

[159Hunter]

12 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

The CV players or players who like the game are not the ones being rude and alienating people that's for sure...

Yeah right, so CV players don't ruin games?

What world do you live in?

[Tanaka_15]

12 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

The CV players or players who like the game are not the ones being rude and alienating people that's for sure...

hmm yeah. right it is so fun to have a cv in game. So much fun. 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

5 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

Yeah right, so CV players don't ruin games?

What world do you live in?

I'm talking about forums and the behavior of people there talking to, with or about CV players. If you can't differentiate a game from interactions between people in conversations then we get these issues and they are not excusable by CVs existing. Imagine other players doing what @Juuzaam described just for him trying to give help? How is this behavior excusable?

[Captain_Lootbox]

1 hour ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

I'm talking about forums and the behavior of people there talking to, with or about CV players. If you can't differentiate a game from interactions between people in conversations then we get these issues and they are not excusable by CVs existing. Imagine other players doing what @Juuzaam described just for him trying to give help? How is this behavior excusable?

Why do you think that CV players get more grief than any other class of ship player?

[black_falcon120]

44 minutes ago, Captain_Lootbox said:

Why do you think that CV players get more grief than any other class of ship player?

I mean, do we deserve the hate? I don't think so.

I think it's more that players think they can't counter them, they discount the value of AA as it doesn't guarentee them no damage from planes, and they have usualy not played high tier CVs enough to know how to dodge.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

1 hour ago, Captain_Lootbox said:

Why do you think that CV players get more grief than any other class of ship player?

I play the other classes too. I also face CVs yet I don't feel the need to behave hateful and resentful towards other players or CV players. It's a game. There is no need to involve feelings towards a person. In the moment of gameplay it can be valid but you don't need to be rude afterwards especially not when it's involving discussions on the topic. Just look at this topic in general. All discussion immediately gets shut down by people who insult and harass anyone who even suggests that the game can be played with CVs in the game.

Look at my recent solo stats. Does the game look unplayable to you for me in the other classes besides CVs? There are, believe it or not, other players who still play and like the game despite the occasional CV in the match. Stop being toxic towards people who enjoy something you don't.

 

[Captain_Lootbox]

16 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

I play the other classes too. I also face CVs yet I don't feel the need to behave hateful and resentful towards other players or CV players. It's a game. There is no need to involve feelings towards a person. In the moment of gameplay it can be valid but you don't need to be rude afterwards especially not when it's involving discussions on the topic. Just look at this topic in general. All discussion immediately gets shut down by people who insult and harass anyone who even suggests that the game can be played with CVs in the game.

Look at my recent solo stats. Does the game look unplayable to you for me in the other classes besides CVs? There are, believe it or not, other players who still play and like the game despite the occasional CV in the match. Stop being toxic towards people who enjoy something you don't.

 

I enjoy playing CV.  I just dont because other people dont enjoy playing against them as much, going by the reaction that CV players get when they do play them.    

[Woof_for_Me]

19 minutes ago, Captain_Lootbox said:

I enjoy playing CV.  I just dont because other people dont enjoy playing against them as much, going by the reaction that CV players get when they do play them.    

Why do you care about the enjoyment of your opponents? It's a PVP game. Do you think Counterstrike players enjoy being oneshot by AWP users? Do you think World of Warcraft players enjoy getting killed by a heal priest in PVP battlegrounds because they in their DPS class can't recover HP faster than the priest kills them in a 1on1? All you should care about is winning the game with your team. As soon as the enemy players you face pressed the battle button in the current state of the game they accept everything the game throws at them. Otherwise they wouldn't play the game. If they don't like facing CVs in a game that has CVs and still press battle they have only themselves to blame.

[Tanaka_15]

1 hour ago, black_falcon120 said:

I mean, do we deserve the hate? 

Yes

[SurfaceFish]

18 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

Yes

So long as you understand you are wasting you energy (hating) on this thing in a free to play video game no one cares or WG gives a sh*t about apart from like minded people. 
 

if you want CV players to live rent free in your head, so be it.

[Nibenay78]

On 1/7/2023 at 1:00 AM, Juuzaam said:

 I started playing carriers to understand how to play against these or at least survive a bit longer. Unfortunately i got corrupted and joined them, mea culpa. But the important part, you do 100% things wrong you are not even aware of. These are things only a CV player knows. When a CV player with a 70+% WR offers you to recap a match just to tell you what you did wrong, you are about to learn something.

Yeah same here. Result was that even I'm fairly mediocre in CVs I can still piss on most players and CLEARLY ruin their match and fun.

 

On 1/7/2023 at 11:36 AM, Juuzaam said:

We got 2 different opinions about what a valid advice is. What the playerbase wants, is an effective way to win against a carrier, like pressing a button and deleting all the planes. Turns out, this is not possible and i dont see any reason to talk about this for the fifth time in just this week. We all know by now, unless you are bit special, that carriers are broken per design and also fairly overpowered, at the same time. So can we please not repeat the same discusion again, that you want a button to delete planes, but this button doesnt exist, and instead come to the conclusion that there are still ways to not get killed in 2 squads. Possible advices wont make you win against every carrier, but prevent getting killed easily by everyone.

What the playerbase wants is to have the opportunity when one ship actually has "advantageous" matchup vs CV. Right now I'd say that only a few DDs got that at best. Why was the panic effect removed from defAA for example? It was way more interesting as it offered not only yourself but everyone else near you (7.2km in Gearing) massive damage mitigation. Plus we can always discuss what is a "counter"? If "not dying" is a counter, it's not very impressive (or fun?) counterplay.

 

The whole setup like it is now feels like if you had 2 BBs shooting at each other. One of them however can only have it's cannons disabled temporary to lower DPS and EVENTUALLY (10-15 minutes) into the game they will start breaking permanently with let's say only 1 or 2 cannons working. and only IF that player is average or worse. And thats ignoring the ability to spot during endgame even with a single plane alive at any moment.

 

On 1/7/2023 at 11:36 AM, Juuzaam said:

Once i wrote a guide on reddit, what not to do and why. Explained evey basic thing, nobody was able to tell me when i struggeled against Carriers, which was the reason to begin carriers for me.  As a reward, i was downvoted, insulted in the thread, in private messages, even stalked on discords and the ingame chat from the super salty playerbase. Thats a quite questionable behaviour, to complain about a problem at one side, but also derailing any argument from people that know the other, that only this playerbase can do. I have never seen such a thing in other games. /rant

A result of peoples frustration with an appalling frustrating piece of gameplay. I have seen this toxicness in other games easily and I was very happy we did not have this in wows. The CV rework was a massive change in this. That said WG has not helped with their own toxic behaviour, outright lies and aggressive monetization.

 

On 1/7/2023 at 11:40 AM, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

yep its quite toxic. Its really impressive to what lengths these defeatists will go to try to silence reason 

Dying in 2 minutes or dying in 3 minutes is a difference, but the feeling is fairly much the same. Sure we can turn, twist, make hard stops, sure it works at times to mitigate a little damage. But we're left with gameplay that isn't fun. Which is difficult for WG since it's not a quantifiable parameter really.

 

On 1/7/2023 at 11:40 AM, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

honestly the individual that has problems and rather listens to the "there is nothing u can do" crowd is at fault for this too. He could take the advice and try it, what is he going to lose? But its always easier to just scream about it for years. Its clear now that CVs aren't going to go away  they will always plague you. So your choice is to adapt to them or not to play. You can also endlessly complain of course and be as toxic as to harass then on forums and private messages

WG has shown us the way. I'm still waiting for FkUNibenay1337 code for my general whining here :) Clearly it takes a few years for WG to make changes anyway. How long did they take to realize Hosho was annihilating everything at it's tier? Collecting data? Sure I like data and statistics too, but...

 

20 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

No one needs to be thankful for such bunch honestly. Even if they all quit, they would as probably would you... be disappointed about how little the dent would be it would leave on the health of the game. On this forum alone the amount of people if they left would probably not be more than 200 at best. That's insignificant. 

True, the amount on the forum is not relevant, but then you can always extrapolate a bit. If I should do that, I have 2RL friends (of about 10 who tried) who plays semi-regular now mostly with me. One just hates CVs and will often quit playing in frustration the other thinks its a hopeless and destructive mechanic as it is, but simply doesn't thing wows is a good enough game to care. Very anecdotal I know, my point here is that the forum may be a reflection of what many others think.

 

15 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

Here is a little technique for all the CV players struggling to hit DDs with HE bombs. Always drop with one half of the reticle. This way you guarantee at least 1 bomb to hit per drop and if you are lucky you get the majority of bombs to hit.
Have fun punching small boats with big bombs effectively

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1060554072073179186/1061445772635287602/HEDB2.mp4

What was that, a way to deal unavoidable damage? Did I hear Just Dodge™ ?

[Nibenay78]

1 hour ago, Woof_for_Me said:

Why do you care about the enjoyment of your opponents?

Some people like that participants have a good time, tends to make for a less toxic environment.

And guess what, I played on an AWP banned CS server. We had great fun for years.

 

I think ballistic nuclear missiles fits in wows for you, but it's not a game I will play.

[Nibenay78]

1 hour ago, SurfaceFish said:

So long as you understand you are wasting you energy (hating) on this thing in a free to play video game no one cares or WG gives a sh*t

Enough toxic behaviour and bade gameplay will drive players away. Will it be a noticable amount? I don't think anyone of us will know.

[Nibenay78]

3 hours ago, black_falcon120 said:

I mean, do we deserve the hate? I don't think so.

Probably not, but it's a clear expression how the players on the other side feels and result of frustration.

 

Quote

I think it's more that players think they can't counter them, they discount the value of AA as it doesn't guarentee them no damage from planes, and they have usualy not played high tier CVs enough to know how to dodge.

Many players don't know how to counter stuff in this game, but we don't see 1000 pages of discussion if Shimakaze is unfair just because someone can't use WASD and gets eaten by massive torpedo salvos by a ship he or she can't see.
 

Sure AA shoots down planes, but when I die due to CV attacks and spot after 5 minutes while the CV will get deplaned after 15, it doesn't feel very fair/fun/balanced/insert whatever.