General CV related discussions.

[black_falcon120]

1 minute ago, Nibenay78 said:

Maybe they don't need a rebalance if they got nerfed. Maybe they need a rebalance now?

At least it's going better than my previous CV threads

[Nibenay78]

Just now, black_falcon120 said:

At least it's going better than my previous CV threads

Until @Excavatus or similiar appears and locks it and tells you to write here instead.

 

Just a wild guess from me, but what do I know.

[black_falcon120]

12 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

Until @Excavatus or similiar appears and locks it and tells you to write here instead.

 

Just a wild guess from me, but what do I know.

None of my previous threads got closed.... 

 

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/161041-wg-please-show-cv-players-some-love/

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/162166-can-we-nerf-british-bcs-aa/

I think they just close CV threads demanding that they be nerfed, as I’m running a poll, and am not mindlessly demanding nerfs, I don’t think the thread will be closed.

[Nibenay78]

28 minutes ago, black_falcon120 said:

and am not mindlessly demanding nerfs

You are mindlessly wanting buffs, even without considering their impacts on the game. Heat seeking rockets? seriously?

[black_falcon120]

1 minute ago, Nibenay78 said:

You are mindlessly wanting buffs, even without considering their impacts on the game. Heat seeking rockets? seriously?

It was an idea, I’m not demanding that…

[Nibenay78]

7 minutes ago, black_falcon120 said:

It was an idea, I’m not demanding that…

Fine, a very poor idea. Can I have automated main guns too that automatically aim 99.9% perfectly at spotted CVs when I play BB?

[Yosha_AtaIante]

57 minutes ago, black_falcon120 said:

It was an idea, I’m not demanding that…

You remember that I gave you a lot of opportunities to think more deeply about your "ideas" right?

Do you think WG just mindlessly comes up with their idea to do something about the spotting just for fun?

 

When I asked you to explain the reasons for your suggested buffs you didn't yet manage to provide good reasoning for any of them. It was more or less a trap question to get you thinking more deeply about them and the consequences they realistically would have on gameplay. But you refuse... it just seems like you don't want to even try. That's why people call your ideas poor. Nibenay isn't stupid and while he doesn't play CV much he understands very well since he followed these discussions especially CV discussions for years now. Every Idea you brought to the table someone already did and it was already discussed. You think you are the first to come up with them? I have been part of these discussions since the CV rework 4 years ago and I have read every singe post in these topics. You are just repeating ideas of powerless CV players without understanding. If you understood how crazy overpowered CVs would be with the implementation of your suggested buffs you wouldn't make those posts and you would not even feel the need to. You would play CV successfully without complaining because CVs are not just fundamentally broken but very powerful once you understand how to play them.

 

There is a reason you don't see experienced CV players complaining about the possible nerfs WG is thinking about. We all acknowledge how overpowered CVs are. It's players like you who refuse to understand and rather come up with the wildest ideas who desperately search for some shortcut to not fall even further behind. It's quite sad. A little bit of effort and you would be able to play on a similiar level to experienced CV players but you choose the low effort route instead. Very pitiful

[coldocean]

Vor 2 Stunden, Nibenay78 sagte:

Fine, a very poor idea. Can I have automated main guns too that automatically aim 99.9% perfectly at spotted CVs when I play BB?

I read such comments before, but they ignore the actual situation.  You already got a lot of automatic stuff on your BBs. The secondaries aim and fire automatically and they can do a lot of damage and even kill other players. Your flak also aims and fires by itself. The scouting plane is just a button and you got automatically more distance for your weapons. The fighter against airplanes you drop, fights automatically. To attack subs, you just click on the water and the planes do their flying and dropping by themself. 

 

*************

Seriously, I already said that in past: make antiair superstrong, but let people do something ingame (I am not talking about commander skills) to let it perform this way. Even ships with no good antiair at this point, should have the chance to compensate the weakness of the ship by the players skill and you even had more options to go with your ship. That would make it also more interesting for CV players.

Adjusting the automatic AntiAir is just another boring move by WG and I don't get, why people not playing CV even care. Isolated ships will still get punished, so people stay in lemming train like they do now. The automatic AA shall even communicate with the other ships automated AA, lol. The Bot-AA coordinates the actions, while people yell at each other ingame and show no teamwork. I like the humour of that idea I read weeks ago from WG. Ships with no or low antiair (Musashi, Ashitaka) will still be first targets by CVs by the way, except they hide behind other ships.

 

Am 2.12.2022 um 15:12, De_Zeeuwse_Admiraliteit sagte:

Buff AA or remove carriers. They're so braindead, it's unreal. Very resembling of this company. It's absolutelly sickening how much more fun games WITHOUT carriers are compared with games including these shitters. 

 

It is a strange idea to have a game with ww2 and later ships, but having no carriers. People watch movies about Midway or submarines etc and then they come to WoWs and there shall be no CVs, no Subs, etc. I don't know, if that would be really a good advice for WG.

But if people are into a CV nerf and WG is as well: why not just reducing the damage of all CVs by percentage? So the torps, rockets and bombs make x% less damage. That would also affect the better players like @AtaIante, because skill cannot compensate these number, if nothing else changes in an update. Also there would be no discussion, which CVs are more affected by a change and which are not. It would take a lot of steam out of the discussion also, because nobody can deny a nerf then.

 

The fixes I read weeks ago about by WG will end in one player still being killed by a great CV player and complain in forum and then the forum will say, that the change was not good enough or not existent. If Flamu will be killed by CV sooner or later, we will have a lot of videos and even more threads regarding the no-fix. Meanwhile the worse players will just change to another CV line or another premium to get a ship which is eventually less affected by the change. Good for WG! So who is the party, which really will be happy? WG! 

[FellRaven]

On 12/2/2022 at 3:07 PM, BLUB__BLUB said:

AA should not just "be buffed". There needs to be something that you could do that is REALLY effective. 
Like, holding fire until a certain moment when it is REALLY effective. Less automation!!
Same as waiting for a cruiser to turn and show broadside. 

 

 

You mean like it used to be before CV players complained it was unfair and it was nerfed by WG so that AA ramped up gradual and took something like 30 seconds to be effective?

[FellRaven]

4 hours ago, coldocean said:

 

It is a strange idea to have a game with ww2 and later ships, but having no carriers. People watch movies about Midway or submarines etc and then they come to WoWs and there shall be no CVs, no Subs, etc. I don't know, if that would be really a good advice for WG.

But if people are into a CV nerf and WG is as well: why not just reducing the damage of all CVs by percentage? So the torps, rockets and bombs make x% less damage. That would also affect the better players like @AtaIante, because skill cannot compensate these number, if nothing else changes in an update. Also there would be no discussion, which CVs are more affected by a change and which are not. It would take a lot of steam out of the discussion also, because nobody can deny a nerf then.

 

 

Firstly your historic point is actually wrong nobody actually built (laid down) new battleships after it became apparent that CVs were the dominate capital ship. so 100% of he "Real" battleships in game were designed without CVs being considered (Seriously) so having a game that reflects how they intended is perfectly reasonable. Also rather obviously German and Soviet Carrier fleets are completely ficticious and the Tier 10 Carriers are basically post war whereas the Tier 10 BBs in contrast are based on 20s and 30s designed which is why there were never built

 

Second there were many encounters that did not involve CVs, and Submarines never took part in Fleet encounters. I'd be very happy to a have a game with only real ships minus CVs as I suspect would most. WG have an obsession with content over game play.

 

Now you put all that to one side and ask what is it like to play against a CV in this game if you aren't a CV and the answer is you can't !

If you dodge you expose you broadside and get smacked - Removing CV spotting solves this but still hasn't been done!!!!! and it wouldn't affect CVs at all

AA is currently ineffective because CV Players complained about it on numerous occasions, I don't fit or skill AA as there is no point but if it worked them CV players wouldn't have any fun either - the balance problem again.

Then there is the lack of being able to hit back. CVs can site behind islands out of range immune to any counter and most annoying when I CV is caught they are stupidly hard to kill, this basically full time Damage Control Party - Invisible layers of armour that don't appear on the models.
And why are CVs unaffected by Cyclones anyone?

 

The issue is that CVs do not fit into the game Navyfield balanced CVs with limited range and limited Aircraft, WG have chosen not to go down this route (Navyfield also had limited Ships ammunition) and AA was fully manual as were main guns in many ways a much more skilled game. Again WG has chosen not to go down these routes preferring to rely on the Fates and this is the problem!

[redraven]

10 hours ago, AtaIante said:

 

Do you think WG just mindlessly comes up with their idea to do something...

 

Yes. Precisely that. They dont think when they make decisions. Its obvious if you look at how they have done, and are doing things.

[coldocean]

Vor 5 Stunden, FellRaven sagte:

 

Firstly your historic point is actually wrong nobody actually built (laid down) new battleships after it became apparent that CVs were the dominate capital ship. so 100% of he "Real" battleships in game were designed without CVs being considered (Seriously) so having a game that reflects how they intended is perfectly reasonable. Also rather obviously German and Soviet Carrier fleets are completely ficticious and the Tier 10 Carriers are basically post war whereas the Tier 10 BBs in contrast are based on 20s and 30s designed which is why there were never built

 

Second there were many encounters that did not involve CVs, and Submarines never took part in Fleet encounters. I'd be very happy to a have a game with only real ships minus CVs as I suspect would most. WG have an obsession with content over game play.

 

 

Sorry, but you are just writing strange stuff to artificially counter a post of mine. ROFL. Did I wrote someone built BBs or not at a certain point? No! You got more modern ships in WoWs and CVs and Subs existed at that time already and WoWs want to have customers looking for submarines and CV for the reasons I told you.

CV and Subs will never be removed from WoWs, so there is nothing you can wait for. You can leave the game now for good, if you are so unhappy about 2/5 of the ship classes, because WG will never remove them. 

You talk about spotting here, which I did not. Another example of you argumenting against stuff I did not say. You show exactly, why WG is not listening to forum people and is not taking most of them serious. People see for example the Midway movie on Amazon, where they sent some planes (incl the hero) from the CV to spot the enemy. And you want people coming to WoWs and WG telling them "nah, planes can't spot anything". ROFL. 

 

And btw ... there are enough modes in WoWs, which don't involve CVs or Subs. So there you got your historical accuracy again. 

[FellRaven]

2 hours ago, coldocean said:

 

Sorry, but you are just writing strange stuff to artificially counter a post of mine. ROFL. Did I wrote someone built BBs or not at a certain point? No! You got more modern ships in WoWs and CVs and Subs existed at that time already and WoWs want to have customers looking for submarines and CV for the reasons I told you.

CV and Subs will never be removed from WoWs, so there is nothing you can wait for. You can leave the game now for good, if you are so unhappy about 2/5 of the ship classes, because WG will never remove them. 

You talk about spotting here, which I did not. Another example of you argumenting against stuff I did not say. You show exactly, why WG is not listening to forum people and is not taking most of them serious. People see for example the Midway movie on Amazon, where they sent some planes (incl the hero) from the CV to spot the enemy. And you want people coming to WoWs and WG telling them "nah, planes can't spot anything". ROFL. 

 

And btw ... there are enough modes in WoWs, which don't involve CVs or Subs. So there you got your historical accuracy again. 

 

You needs to stop smoking that weed man you are rambling 

[coldocean]

Vor 4 Stunden, FellRaven sagte:

 

You needs to stop smoking that weed man you are rambling 

Out of arguments, eh? ROFL

Btw ... I put you on ignore. You are not the first and not the last one. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

14 hours ago, FellRaven said:

You mean like it used to be before CV players complained it was unfair and it was nerfed by WG so that AA ramped up gradual and took something like 30 seconds to be effective?

It doesn't even "ramp up". After the planes get detected, it takjes X seconds for the gunners to get off their butts and start shooting.
And then they start shooting at the last plane of the squad... well up to now. Can't remember any CV players complaining tho. I certainly wasn't.
Actually most of them were going 'LOL mate hell FF'n no you serious'. I did see some noobs complaining it was too hard. And they still do... 
 

[BLUB__BLUB]

18 hours ago, coldocean said:

Your flak also aims and fires by itself.

Actually that is quite untrue. FLAK is controlled by the CV player. 
It starts about 2 secs after he gets in range (so actually the CV player wakes up the gunners)
and then the CV tells the gunners where his planes will be in X secs if he keeps same speed and direction.
Weirdly, some planes even get shot down by those CV-guided black clouds. 

[coldocean]

Vor 1 Stunde, BLUB__BLUB sagte:

Actually that is quite untrue. FLAK is controlled by the CV player. 
It starts about 2 secs after he gets in range (so actually the CV player wakes up the gunners)
and then the CV tells the gunners where his planes will be in X secs if he keeps same speed and direction.
Weirdly, some planes even get shot down by those CV-guided black clouds. 

Beside me using an emoticon above: with that argument you could also say, that Pac-Man was steering the Ghosts. That happens, if you start a human player against an AI Bot minigame within a PVP game and therefore I already said, that players should handle anti-air themself. But people are not so much into that, because having the automatic AI controlled flak is more comfortable. Also you just supported my other argument by mistake. If you lower the damage of CV attacks, all players would be affected. If you are argument is CV players are all stupid and are flying into black cloads anyway, then there is no reason to fix anything. 

Sorry to say that, but all the radar ships from latetly sold ships like Atlanta B or Belfast are much more annoying in 2nd tier of Ranked, than CVs are.

 

You know what is the easiest way of getting rid of OP CVs? Make WG stop stelling premium CVs 24/7 for gold, steel and coal.

[BLUB__BLUB]

5 minutes ago, coldocean said:

Beside me using an emoticon above: with that argument you could also say, that Pac-Man was steering the Ghosts.

Nahhhhhh that cannot be true... 

 

5 minutes ago, coldocean said:

That happens, if you start a human player against an AI Bot minigame within a PVP game and therefore I already said, that players should handle anti-air themself. But people are not so much into that, because having the automatic AI controlled flak is more comfortable.

Yeah stupid is as stupid does. At least in the RTS version you could click something and it would actually be effective... 

 

5 minutes ago, coldocean said:

Also you just supported my other argument by mistake. If you lower the damage of CV attacks, all players would be affected.

That was no mistake. 

 

5 minutes ago, coldocean said:

If you are argument is CV players are all stupid and are flying into black cloads anyway, then there is no reason to fix anything. 

Just some Youtubers yelling Black Clouds black clouds....

And then flying into them... 

 

5 minutes ago, coldocean said:

Sorry to say that, but all the radar ships from latetly sold ships like Atlanta B or Belfast are much more annoying in 2nd tier of Ranked, than CVs are.

You never met a CV-main... or maybe you're just cynical. It is the circumstances there that make those ships more annoying. 
Damage over time (like CVs do, wellmost anyway...) is irrelevant in ranked. 

 

5 minutes ago, coldocean said:

You know what is the easiest way of getting rid of OP CVs? Make WG stop stelling premium CVs 24/7 for gold, steel and coal.

We have no way of telling if CVs are OP. They are so broken that the actual damage output cannot be related. 
If you know how to abuse them it is just like clubbing seals. Would you need a larger club? Or maybe more seals. 

Also premium CVs are not that good, many of them are situational or just overrated. 

And since they're available for gold/steel/coal they're often used by taters as well. 

[FafnerSaltyDragon]

On 11/28/2022 at 12:48 AM, black_falcon120 said:

@TheSaltyDragon

 

I'm drafting the poll, and I'm thinking of creating two polls in the thread, the first one to cover the obvious changes, and the second to cover more complex Changes, what do you think of the following? 

 

Poll 1:

 

  Hide contents

• Buff plane speed
• Buff plane health 
• increase aerial torpedo damagee
• Increase plane rocket damage
• Increase bomb damage
• Reduce the damage from flak 
• Weaken fighter planes. 
• Provide a damage reduction to AA from ships above the CV's tier 
• improve CV survivability
• Provide rocket assistance as standard to all carrier planes
•  

Poll 2: 

  Hide contents

• Add heat seeking capacity to rockets
• Give CVs their historic speed
• remove reserves entirely - no more managing reserves 
• Give CVs a droppable sonar buoy to assist team mates hunting subs
• Let CV planes passively spot subs
• none of the above. 

Do you think I'm missing anything? 

I've not read up on this thread in a while (aaand ign change since i had gold sitting on wot) , but look at what killed MvR. It was not:
Plane speed
Rocket Damage
Bomb Damage
Torp Damage
 Flak Damage 
Fighters
Subs
CV Survivability


what killed it was the mechanic change for rockets and the APDB dispersion super nukes (there was more than 1) 

CVs are in "weird" state where they are a bit too strong imo but if they get nerfed they get to weak to fast. for a balanced game historical stuff will have to sacrificed. (you missed a lot)  and i still think doing a general survey will get biased numbers as people who are not in a neutral state (most likely people who dislikes cvs and would want to remove them) might make the results unusable by anyone (unless they want biased numbers) 

the second cat is making them kill subs even easier, cv ASW is OP since it is 90-100% accurate (as in always direct hit) 


I am going of the current state of the game not devblog NDA topics (and i will not discuss them either) 

[FafnerSaltyDragon]

On 12/4/2022 at 2:48 AM, AtaIante said:

There is a reason you don't see experienced CV players complaining about the possible nerfs WG is thinking about. We all acknowledge how overpowered CVs are.

I agree 100%. CVs can get nerfed in some places while still being powerful (as long as it isnt mechanic/rng nerfs like mvr.......) 

[FellRaven]

15 hours ago, coldocean said:

Out of arguments, eh? ROFL

Btw ... I put you on ignore. You are not the first and not the last one. 

 Sorry there was an argument in your ramblings must have missed that........no wait I didn't there wasn't one

[Nibenay78]

On 12/4/2022 at 5:02 AM, coldocean said:

I read such comments before, but they ignore the actual situation.  You already got a lot of automatic stuff on your BBs. The secondaries aim and fire automatically and they can do a lot of damage and even kill other players. Your flak also aims and fires by itself. The scouting plane is just a button and you got automatically more distance for your weapons. The fighter against airplanes you drop, fights automatically. To attack subs, you just click on the water and the planes do their flying and dropping by themself. 

While I agree it's a lot of automated stuff, we don't really need more do we? Especially not one the main weapon for a ship.  At least attacking subs and launching fighter/spotter plane requires a trivial amount of attention and timing, which actually surprisingly many fails to do. CVs however gets this for free...  oh and maybe we should mention the simple R key, which if used inappropriately can actually cause a rather quick death. Also super buffed automated variant on CVs...

Heat seeking rockets? jeez... the dumbass pings are already bad enough.

 

But then again, this game caters to the most casual ones. Official explanation why radar and hydro goes through land? Because it would be hard for players to understand why if it didn't.

 

 

Quote

But if people are into a CV nerf and WG is as well: why not just reducing the damage of all CVs by percentage?

Because the less competent ones would stop playing it. It would make the rework a failure and WG would cry. 

I'd not mind though.

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

the simple R key, which if used inappropriately can actually cause a rather quick death. Also super buffed automated variant on CVs...

Well, you should admit that it is stupid, too. The "R" on CVs works the same as b0ts. First fire, press "R". 
And then, instead of fixing the base problem, it got 'repaired' by just adding more of the same BS. 

I mean, it would have been more honest if they just gave CVs 500k HP. 

 

[Nibenay78]

12 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I mean, it would have been more honest if they just gave CVs 500k HP. 

 

They might as well, and instead give them some major disadvantage when they burn... like back in the good old RTS days where having the entire deck on fire was an issue.

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

They might as well, and instead give them some major disadvantage when they burn... like back in the good old RTS days where having the entire deck on fire was an issue.

Hold on, there was a 2-point captain skill that enables CV to launch planes anyway. 
And everybody took that... so.... I'd say, if on fire, they should be more visible (which they are),

but also they should give off a VISIBLE cloud of smoke (like, you can see where the planes go, even if they are not detected).

Same as, even if the DD is not detected, you still have an idea, since you see where his torpies came from.  
And even if not detected you still see his smoke cloud so you can go aggro on it.