General CV related discussions.

[Panzer_Guido]

13 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Nope, I agree. Probably the 'new AA' will mean they'll buff the torps and whatnot, so guess what will happen.
Cv players that are savvy enough will now outfarm the not-so-savvy even harder. 
I can only imagine what a torp from Haku will do after that. 

also FdR planes could use more HP. cant be that some cruisers have more HP than one plane flight! Nakhimov strike power also seems a bit low. I saw a DD survive more than 2 minutes once.

[Panocek]

13 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Nope, I agree. Probably the 'new AA' will mean they'll buff the torps and whatnot, so guess what will happen.
Cv players that are savvy enough will now outfarm the not-so-savvy even harder. 
I can only imagine what a torp from Haku will do after that. 

Return of 4TB squadrons 

[BLUB__BLUB]

38 minutes ago, Panzer_Guido said:

also FdR planes could use more HP. cant be that some cruisers have more HP than one plane flight! Nakhimov strike power also seems a bit low. I saw a DD survive more than 2 minutes once.

Well duh, it is such a sh...load of planes that the result is indeed a lot of HP.

But they are dropping like flies anyway since they are so slow and you have to "loiter around" a long time.

Also there is not much avoiding flak with a squad of that size. 

 

FDR is a bit overrated. The total damage of one torp load is similar to Midway or Hakuryu.

But Midway will drop at least twice the amount in the same time, Haku maybe even 3. 

The problem is, can you do it. If you know how to avoid flak then yes you can.

If you do not know how to avoid flak then take FDR. Easier, but less output.

 

Nahkimov is different. Only 1 squad. No return-drops. 

A DD should survive that more easily, as he usually gets killed by the constant spotting.

Which Nahkimov will not do, as once he drops the spotting is gone.  

[BLUB__BLUB]

40 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Return of 4TB squadrons 

I do not think that will really help. Taters will just lose more planes. 
A larger squad = will get hit more by flak. 
But you might be right, after all this is WeeGee.

[SurfaceFish]

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

 FDR is a bit overrated

So true, my worst steel ship purchase. I have decent stats in her but its seems to take extra effort to play her well vs other T10 CV. Not planning to touch her again. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, SurfaceFish said:

So true, my worst steel ship purchase. I have decent stats in her but its seems to take extra effort to play her well vs other T10 CV. Not planning to touch her again. 

It doe the opposite - it takes less effort as it is really easy. 
But to do well you just need to find the right team of taters, both on the reds and greens.
Oh boiiii when your team is kinda stupid and sits behind islands, and theirs does as well... 
 

Spoiler

In this game on 2 Brothers I went through the middle with the FDR...
I have many 200K games but never found such a stuuuupid team that I could do 400K. 
Mostly, because it is slow, you get ~100K before the ROFLSTOMP ends. 

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

9 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

Not planning to touch her again. 

Best thing in FDR is to troll everything that needs to be trolled. Attack the enemy CV (LOL),

go for the Smolenks (just loiter until he smokes up), kill DDs with a sh... load of torps,

whcakkastalin' when he has just found his fav spot at anisland... endless possibilities to have fun. 
Yeah you will not be very good or unicum but if the other CV is potat you'll still beat him.

 

Some examples 

Spoiler

 

 

...and when I did this: 

 

 

 

 

[Nibenay78]

3 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Best thing in FDR is to troll everything that needs to be trolled.

Lost are the days when a Minotaur was a team ship....

[SurfaceFish]

2 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

Lost are the days when a Minotaur was a team ship....

 She is easy food for the Malta now I’m guess?

[Nibenay78]

52 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

 She is easy food for the Malta now I’m guess?

You can get shat on by any CV, even a crap-to-mediocre CV player like me can do it. The permaspot kills you anyway eventually.

[Juuzaam]

Vor 10 Stunden, Nibenay78 sagte:

You can get shat on by any CV, even a crap-to-mediocre CV player like me can do it. The permaspot kills you anyway eventually.

 

I am calling it. [edited].  Listen up. You lose intergrity and sabotage any kind of real discusion with falls claims and wrong asumptions, like every CV or CV players shits on Minotaurs. When i am saying that a tower defense Mino can easily deplane carriers, this is rather true. And about your spotting, Mino got 6.7 maybe 9, i dont know air concealment, same as its AA range. You dont spot Minos for free, which is why you dont do it.

 

You got like 800 matches in post RTS carriers and close to 300 of these in Hosho. No need to hide this, but we know what a 75k avg Enterprise with 60% WR can or can not do, or what 300 Hosho matches tell about a player. Your rather recent CV performance is close to your "crap-to-mediocre". Feel free to check my solo stats and tell me how i am wrong when i am saying that i dont kill Minos for free and you wont do this either.

 

Doesnt change that Malta shits on Mino, and that greedy Radar Minos, holding LMB, behind rocks can be easily killed. Hosho-main

[FafnerSaltyDragon]

 

11 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

You can get shat on by any CV, even a crap-to-mediocre CV player like me can do it. The permaspot kills you anyway eventually.

this is implying the ship is miss playing extremely hard in that situation (like yoloing mid in a GK...) 

If you know how CVs work, how game mechanics work and how to negate things you can make a CV waste time on you aka making said carrier useless for the enemy team 
I am not the best CV player, but im far from the worst. 

[FafnerSaltyDragon]

On 11/15/2022 at 5:12 PM, AtaIante said:

you will reach the wrong people. Most great CV players are not active on the forum. But we share the opinion and wirh that I mean all of the great CV players I know do, that CVs don't need any buffs. That poll is honestly meaningless. Most agree that CVs are broken. However this matters little. Its 4 years now that the CV rework is basically in the same state. Changes were made yes but the best still perform just the same. The skill is being rewarded by being massively OP. As long as only very few stay as such no buffs or nerfs will happen.

 

On 11/15/2022 at 4:49 PM, black_falcon120 said:

I mean they do have pain points which mean they imo do deserve a buff, I am thinking about creating a poll to see what people wanted buffed.

Asking what a "plain bad" player thinks will only make things worse imo. i agree with the poll being meaningless if put here. There are changes to CVs like the triple nerf to MvR (rest in peace...) 

also if you make a change it could be a nerf on EU due to EU meta but a buff on ASIA since ASIA meta. WG has to change it on all servers not just one... 
also please dont come with some "give vermont 10km hydro" ideas but for AA ships.... 

[BLUB__BLUB]

16 hours ago, SurfaceFish said:

 She is easy food for the Malta now I’m guess?

Malta bombers are RNG, spotting + red BBs shooting well eehhh not so much.

Like, I have had it happen I was trying to bomb a Mino with my Malta,

bombs were already dropping then the BB salvo arrived. BLAP. But no points for me... 
Personally I have always said the 'spotting for the whole team' is an annoyance to the CV as well as the rest.

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

19 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

Lost are the days when a Minotaur was a team ship....

You cannot troll a Mino in an DFDR... much... or long. He'll chew through your planes pretty fast. 
Yeah sure if he needs to die then he dies. I can even do it if nobody else shoots him. 
But it will cost me one (FDR) squad for the rest of the match, or so. More or less using other CVs. 
It will also take me a while (depending on the CV) unless I get lucky or he is stupid. But yes, get him, that I will.
Let's not even think about Super-CVs... 

Spotting him might also cost me, except if he's a dumbass that keeps firing the guns and doesn't move.
All it needs then is one teammate in a BB that is paying attention and isn't completely cross-eyed...
There's still hope for even such a Mino though because those teammates are getting extremely rare. 

[black_falcon120]

10 hours ago, TheSaltyDragon said:

 

Asking what a "plain bad" player thinks will only make things worse imo. i agree with the poll being meaningless if put here. There are changes to CVs like the triple nerf to MvR (rest in peace...) 

also if you make a change it could be a nerf on EU due to EU meta but a buff on ASIA since ASIA meta. WG has to change it on all servers not just one... 
also please dont come with some "give vermont 10km hydro" ideas but for AA ships.... 

I wouldn't say I am 'plain bad', I just struggle with target selection, I have had good CV players look at my replays. I disagree a poll would be meaningless, as I could simply include a 'do nothing' option to filter out the people who disagree, and then disregard those that selected that option.

 

How is Asia meta different?

[Nibenay78]

13 hours ago, Juuzaam said:

 

I am calling it. [edited].  Listen up. You lose intergrity and sabotage any kind of real discusion with falls claims and wrong asumptions, like every CV or CV players shits on Minotaurs.

You know we are soon at page 500 on the second (or was it third?) CV thread. Most really good CV players already says CVs are unbalanced but happy to go on a rampage.

There is little discussion left to do, so a slightly exaggerated statement doesn't really make a difference anymore.

 

Quote

When i am saying that a tower defense Mino can easily deplane carriers, this is rather true. And about your spotting, Mino got 6.7 maybe 9, i dont know air concealment, same as its AA range. You dont spot Minos for free, which is why you dont do it.

Feel free to try playing minotaur and deplaning carriers easily. Oh noes you can't spot them for free? Actually have to lose some planes while the Minotaur loses hitpoints to big arse shells flying it's way?

 

Quote

You got like 800 matches in post RTS carriers and close to 300 of these in Hosho. No need to hide this, but we know what a 75k avg Enterprise with 60% WR can or can not do, or what 300 Hosho matches tell about a player. Your rather recent CV performance is close to your "crap-to-mediocre". Feel free to check my solo stats and tell me how i am wrong when i am saying that i dont kill Minos for free and you wont do this either.

I didn't say kill them, I said something else and specifically pointed out repeated spotting is an issue. It's not like you need to go after one anyways because it's pointless when you can rape everything else. See quote from @BLUB__BLUB at the bottom.

As we both know Hosho has no relevance to higher tiers so why drag it up?

 

Since you're into statshaming, why not ask what a 0-battle-Minotaur player knows about being on the other end? 

 

Quote

Doesnt change that Malta shits on Mino, and that greedy Radar Minos, holding LMB, behind rocks can be easily killed. Hosho-main

Good thing I use smoke then so I can pretend to be vaguely hidden from CVS. Your thinly veiled personal attack is noted.

 

12 hours ago, TheSaltyDragon said:

If you know how CVs work, how game mechanics work and how to negate things you can make a CV waste time on you aka making said carrier useless for the enemy team 
I am not the best CV player, but im far from the worst. 

So what you are saying that "(one of) the best" AA ships can hope to make the CV waste time? Sounds fun and balanced if that's all one of the most AA heavy ships can hope for. What's in it for the other ships with massively lower AA numbers?

 

8 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

You cannot troll a Mino in an DFDR... much... or long. He'll chew through your planes pretty fast. 
Yeah sure if he needs to die then he dies. I can even do it if nobody else shoots him. 

So since you CAN kill a Mino alone if you HAVE TO, that kinda contradicts @Juuzaam up there. But you don't need to, after all just rape all the other "low AA" ships instead and then the Mino wasted points and modules on AA, yet still effectively loses against CV.

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Guys, technically a CV can commit to do many things. Most of them in a match are stupid decisions. Arguing about going out of ones way to grief a specific ship while losing the battle for it is kind of pointless let's be honest. I believe we are at a point where all of us well understand that CVs are OP and broken. This has been said enough times. There really is no reason to go over this again.

19 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

o since you CAN kill a Mino alone if you HAVE TO, that kinda contradicts @Juuzaam up there

I will however point this one out. An FDR that tries to kill a Mino which "he has to" will not be able to do it as such a situation is usually endgame. This means that most likely there is little time on the clock. So if the mino is healthy it's pretty much impossible because a mino has superheal and you only have HE bombs and torps. You can only make a drop every 25sec and mino can easily dodge the torps and go broadside to the bombers. This means you do not only terribly little damage but also you lose 25 seconds after each drop. If there are only around 5min on the clock in endgame and "you have to" kill that mino it's just unrealistic unless the mino voluntarily eats your torps and doesn't heal.

 

So Blub__Blub might be a bit over enthusiastic here. It's never that simple.

[Nibenay78]

2 minutes ago, AtaIante said:

 I believe we are at a point where all of us well understand that CVs are OP and broken. This has been said enough times. There really is no reason to go over this again.

I agree, but that's not how I read it from certain others here which I quoted.

 

2 minutes ago, AtaIante said:

I will however point this one out. An FDR that tries to kill a Mino which "he has to" will not be able to do it as such a situation is usually endgame. This means that most likely there is little time on the clock. So if the mino is healthy it's pretty much impossible because a mino has superheal and you only have HE bombs and torps. You can only make a drop every 25sec and mino can easily dodge the torps and go broadside to the bombers. This means you do not only terribly little damage but also you lose 25 seconds after each drop. If there are only around 5min on the clock in endgame and "you have to" kill that mino it's just unrealistic unless the mino voluntarily eats your torps and doesn't heal.

 

So Blub__Blub might be a bit over enthusiastic here. It's never that simple.

He might, but then again the spot might also just toss a 406mm or bigger the Minos way. In either case its more a DPS limitation than being a "really bad matchup" as many other ships would be to each others.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

2 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

He might, but then again the spot might also just toss a 406mm or bigger the Minos way. In either case its more a DPS limitation than being a "really bad matchup" as many other ships would be to each others.

I agree with you that such a mino could die with the help of teammates.

I personally don't believe in that however and do not believe it to be reliable. That's why I dislike using it as argument to reinforce the idea of the CVs own capability. After all a DD could also do that spotting instead of the CV just as an example.

If it is an endgame situation and there is just a mino a CV player needs to deal with and another ship is able to shoot the same target then it's only logical to go for that target. That the CV can then spot said target is just part of the game. I don't believe this makes the CV op as the CV itself is relying on others for the job to be done.

[Nibenay78]

4 minutes ago, AtaIante said:

I agree with you that such a mino could die with the help of teammates.

I personally don't believe in that however and do not believe it to be reliable. That's why I dislike using it as argument to reinforce the idea of the CVs own capability. After all a DD could also do that spotting instead of the CV just as an example.

If it is an endgame situation and there is just a mino a CV player needs to deal with and another ship is able to shoot the same target then it's only logical to go for that target. That the CV can then spot said target is just part of the game. I don't believe this makes the CV op as the CV itself is relying on others for the job to be done.

It's a capability that is unmatched by any other ship and while relying on teammates is unreliable (pun intended!), it's also obvious that it in the big picture spotting tends to have a considerable effect.

Imagine if WG introduced a BB whose special ability was to have all enemy ships revealed as long as it lived.... i'd call that ability relevant to the ships relative power level.

 

A DD can do the spotting of course, but has a lot more limitations in it's ability to do so.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

8 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

A DD can do the spotting of course, but has a lot more limitations in it's ability to do so.

A CV player who plays effectively also has the same issue. You usually never spot a target long enough for it to matter to much for your team. A good enemy surface ship will also understand the CV players target selection and be prepared to be spotted for a moment. Mid match most ships exchanging fire spot each other anyway too.

 

It's rare that if I for example have a priority target, for example an island hugging Des Moines that I accidently spot a Zao that currently flanks wide because the shortest way to attack the Des Moines is not all around.

The accidental spottings in my experience barely do anything. I therefore just don't believe it to be an issue. This belief is reinforced by my experience when I myself play surface ships. I usually always get spotted "on my terms" as I can most times clearly see the enemy CVs planes before they spot me or know what his priority target is supposed to be and that he might spot me soon.

[Bear__Necessities]

Hahahahahaha 

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/SuspiciousLaconicWaffleSquadGoals-GTV8DX9UVp42a1GZ

 

"Balanced" 

[FafnerSaltyDragon]

9 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

So what you are saying that "(one of) the best" AA ships can hope to make the CV waste time? Sounds fun and balanced if that's all one of the most AA heavy ships can hope for. What's in it for the other ships with massively lower AA numbers?

Mino is not the best AA ship nor near the best. Mino will make CVs not attack you if there are easier targets but it will attack you over no "no fly zones" like hallands or defaa Annapolis. also every squad you dodge is time wasted for CVs and CVs are in a race against time. you waste enough of their time their impact will be reduced significantly. he comes at you with a torp squad you dodge him and congratz he wasted the flight time to you and attack time on you and he did nothing. dont think of CVs like a surface ship (they're not, that's kind of the point). But trying to shot down planes with no aa is like trying to tank a yamato with 32mm armor...

This is just the current state of CVs. If you have no AA you need to blob with your team the two blob meta works well to help no AA ships not get nuked at the start 
(two blob meta, team splits in 2 groups 4-8 ships per and they sitt so close a cv can only get 1 attack of unless max/soviet

 

12 hours ago, black_falcon120 said:

How is Asia meta different?

have you ever been on Asia? or NA?
Asia is the complete opposite of EU. Instead of people yolo pushing, everyone has rangemod and caps are no go zones and the CV player is base. Every server has their own "meta" its not just copies of each other.
Go find some clips on youtube (a lot of replay channels) find some asia, eu and na and see how things are different. 


Again i stand by this:
Balancing something in the game based on one server has a good chance of being catastrophic on another server. 

12 hours ago, black_falcon120 said:

I wouldn't say I am 'plain bad',

I'm not saying you are plain bad, but there are many players and a majority of them probably don't know what overmatch is... 

[BLUB__BLUB]

17 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

So since you CAN kill a Mino alone if you HAVE TO, that kinda contradicts @Juuzaam up there. But you don't need to, after all just rape all the other "low AA" ships instead and then the Mino wasted points and modules on AA, yet still effectively loses against CV.

Correct. If you do it well, then you spot the Mino while you rape the others.