General CV related discussions.

[_MIDGARD_TARTARIA_prpr]

13 minutes ago, Panocek said:

And are you aware reports without triggering any of the WG metrics like inactivity or profanity checklist are completely ignored, so one can wear 0 karma like badge of honor?

Spoiler

 

On the CIS server, good CVs have always been rewarded with karma points, but they are few and far between.

[Dutchpowah]

Can anyone give me some basic Eagle tips? I'm struggling to well in it.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Just now, Dutchpowah said:

Can anyone give me some basic Eagle tips? I'm struggling to well in it.

post a replay please so we can take a look

[Panocek]

7 minutes ago, _MIDGARD_TARTARIA_prpr said:

On the CIS server, good CVs have always been rewarded with karma points, but they are few and far between.

Here, outplaying someone usually gives you reports especially if it involves controversial ships, though teammates sometimes can reward you for good play so... 

 

In a Wargaming way?

[Khoriandre]

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Now there are two CV mains 

 

It seems not only EU "appreciates" Wargaming idea for carrier REEEwork

I'm not a veteran but I'm technically a CV main, I play them like 90% of the time... the other 10% is submarines nowadays.

[Dutchpowah]

47 minutes ago, AtaIante said:

post a replay please so we can take a look

How does one do that?

[Khoriandre]

9 minutes ago, Dutchpowah said:

How does one do that?

There's a replay folder in your main game folder (the one with the .exe). Has replay files in it (extension .wowreplay). Just attach it to your message and you're good to go.

[Dutchpowah]

20221012_162310_PBSA111-Eagle_40_Okinawa.wowsreplay20221012_145402_PBSA111-Eagle_37_Ridge.wowsreplay

 

Posted my two 'victories'. I think it's a problem of picking priority targets.

 

The bombers are also really frustrating. Since you have no normal attack planes you hope the bombers will do anything vs dd's and cruisers. But they don't. I've had more luck just torping DD's. But there is probably a milion things I'm doing wrong.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

5 minutes ago, Dutchpowah said:

20221012_162310_PBSA111-Eagle_40_Okinawa.wowsreplay20221012_145402_PBSA111-Eagle_37_Ridge.wowsreplay

 

Posted my two 'victories'. I think it's a problem of picking priority targets.

 

The bombers are also really frustrating. Since you have no normal attack planes you hope the bombers will do anything vs dd's and cruisers. But they don't. I've had more luck just torping DD's. But there is probably a milion things I'm doing wrong.

I will check them out after work

[Hembach]

1 hour ago, _MIDGARD_TARTARIA_prpr said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

On the CIS server, good CVs have always been rewarded with karma points, but they are few and far between.

Wait, I've seen this name before... Don't you have YT channel or something like this?

[_MIDGARD_TARTARIA_prpr]

12 minutes ago, Hembach said:

Wait, I've seen this name before... Don't you have YT channel or something like this? 

I have a channel on YT, but it's been abandoned for a long time.

 

Now I'm trying to improve my video editing skills so that the content is quality.

[Juuzaam]

Vor 34 Minuten, Dutchpowah sagte:

20221012_145402_PBSA111-Eagle_37_Ridge.wowsreplay

I will take this replay.

 

You start with Bombers and predrop a squad. I dont like this. There are two AA cruiser, the Seattle and the dutchy which might cause some loses. You might also run into a DD and only get 2 drops on him. If you go for BBs you can still predrop later. Thats to early for me. You spot half the flank inclduing a Kleber, but decide to drop a instead BB. Fine for me

 

Next are torpedo bombers and you play this very unprepared, unorganized. Something spots the  Yoshino and the Alsace, but you still put down a  Spotter. Thats a waste. You could have also placed it close into the cap to cover your  DD more. The attack run is bad as well. In Detail: You use a bad angle to strike and go into 2 AA bubbles with a full squad. You also use the heal to early. The result 7 lost planes, a fighter and a heal consumable for 0 hits, thats a disaster.  Step by step. The Alsace deals like 250dps on far AA and another 250 on mid, close is unimportant, you wont get that close for long and might take no damaeg anyway. A Heal mitigates damage, so when is the best moment to use the heal? A) when you are in AA range at 6 and only 250 dps or B) when you get into mid aa as well and 500 dps? If you would have wanted to strike these 2 bubbles, you predrop, use a better angle and the heal better. You migth score 2-3 for 5 lost planes.

 

Next flight, bombers  again.  Someone calls out the Kleber in the middle, you F out and go for the tactical attack. You could have seen that early.  But the strike was very good

 

Number 4, your hull in the border and you will take way more time to escape. Your flight times are increased by 1.5 squares, a few seconds. The most devastating strike a CV can score, is citadel damage and a DoT on top. Means torpedos and flooding. When you score a fire and the target BBs presses R. He will be immun for 10s but gets a 80s cooldown (unless german, russian BBs).  DoTs last for ~20s so you have to hit him in the next 70s after he pressed. in general you want to hit him twice to increase the chance of a flood. this means, you got like 50s of flight time. Depending. This is best learned by doing. So be aware of how long your flights take, like do it in the next game. You will get used to positioning by this. And learn each carriers striking range.  Without a heal you head over the Seattle and yolo the Montana. Another heal, a speed boot, and the sqaud for 2 hits. Not a good trade.

 

Next runs are tac squads into the open Seattle.  This Seattle is spotted by your DD and in total 3(!) BBs can shot it. Thats an already dead Cruiser and since your DD is still alive you dont have to go for the Seattle imo. There was an Alsasce all alone on an island, farmed by cruisers. You can assist the cruisers by spottign behind the Alsasce or helping to remove the BB.

 

Another tac Squad followed by Bombers the Moskva is already screaming for help. Good enough drops. After this. You should look for the lowest hanging fruit. How can you get after all, who is an easy target? The Kurfurst in the middle all alone.

The Kurfrust uses his DCP and this is where your 50s run to delete him or damage him the most. Enough time for both tac squads, but you use the bombers. Wrong selection. This can take to long, in this case it still enough.

 

Something general. Every nation got a trick for their planes. IJN torp bombers get 7.5km concealment, russian CVs cause cancer and the others get laser guided attack runs for 1 squad type. What i mean, you press lmb once to start a run. The reticle gets closer and moving makes it bigger right? Not for german rockets, not for us bombers and not for british torpedos. You can use this for better angels. (Random CVs like the Roosefelt got the bomber trick for being US and the torpedo trick as well. You can test these, or get used to when you play the techtree lines)

 

 

Overall dont like the attack runs, you need to lead a bit before you start the first attack and start calculating risk/reward. Like how many planes you throw into the meatgrinder for how many hits? When unsure, go for an easy target in case you dont know the exact loses, predrop so you gamble with less. In the end, it was still way better played than the average.

[kaesarsosei]

Malta seems to be out of NDA since I see some YT videos for it. So can anyone here give their impressions?

 

I am almost certainly going to drop the coal for it immediately. FWIW, I hate FDR but like Immelmann (despite only having a few games in it so far).

[Dutchpowah]

32 minutes ago, Juuzaam said:

I will take this replay.

 

You start with Bombers and predrop a squad. I dont like this. There are two AA cruiser, the Seattle and the dutchy which might cause some loses. You might also run into a DD and only get 2 drops on him. If you go for BBs you can still predrop later. Thats to early for me. You spot half the flank inclduing a Kleber, but decide to drop a instead BB. Fine for me

 

Next are torpedo bombers and you play this very unprepared, unorganized. Something spots the  Yoshino and the Alsace, but you still put down a  Spotter. Thats a waste. You could have also placed it close into the cap to cover your  DD more. The attack run is bad as well. In Detail: You use a bad angle to strike and go into 2 AA bubbles with a full squad. You also use the heal to early. The result 7 lost planes, a fighter and a heal consumable for 0 hits, thats a disaster.  Step by step. The Alsace deals like 250dps on far AA and another 250 on mid, close is unimportant, you wont get that close for long and might take no damaeg anyway. A Heal mitigates damage, so when is the best moment to use the heal? A) when you are in AA range at 6 and only 250 dps or B) when you get into mid aa as well and 500 dps? If you would have wanted to strike these 2 bubbles, you predrop, use a better angle and the heal better. You migth score 2-3 for 5 lost planes.

 

Next flight, bombers  again.  Someone calls out the Kleber in the middle, you F out and go for the tactical attack. You could have seen that early.  But the strike was very good

 

Number 4, your hull in the border and you will take way more time to escape. Your flight times are increased by 1.5 squares, a few seconds. The most devastating strike a CV can score, is citadel damage and a DoT on top. Means torpedos and flooding. When you score a fire and the target BBs presses R. He will be immun for 10s but gets a 80s cooldown (unless german, russian BBs).  DoTs last for ~20s so you have to hit him in the next 70s after he pressed. in general you want to hit him twice to increase the chance of a flood. this means, you got like 50s of flight time. Depending. This is best learned by doing. So be aware of how long your flights take, like do it in the next game. You will get used to positioning by this. And learn each carriers striking range.  Without a heal you head over the Seattle and yolo the Montana. Another heal, a speed boot, and the sqaud for 2 hits. Not a good trade.

 

Next runs are tac squads into the open Seattle.  This Seattle is spotted by your DD and in total 3(!) BBs can shot it. Thats an already dead Cruiser and since your DD is still alive you dont have to go for the Seattle imo. There was an Alsasce all alone on an island, farmed by cruisers. You can assist the cruisers by spottign behind the Alsasce or helping to remove the BB.

 

Another tac Squad followed by Bombers the Moskva is already screaming for help. Good enough drops. After this. You should look for the lowest hanging fruit. How can you get after all, who is an easy target? The Kurfurst in the middle all alone.

The Kurfrust uses his DCP and this is where your 50s run to delete him or damage him the most. Enough time for both tac squads, but you use the bombers. Wrong selection. This can take to long, in this case it still enough.

 

Something general. Every nation got a trick for their planes. IJN torp bombers get 7.5km concealment, russian CVs cause cancer and the others get laser guided attack runs for 1 squad type. What i mean, you press lmb once to start a run. The reticle gets closer and moving makes it bigger right? Not for german rockets, not for us bombers and not for british torpedos. You can use this for better angels. (Random CVs like the Roosefelt got the bomber trick for being US and the torpedo trick as well. You can test these, or get used to when you play the techtree lines)

 

 

Overall dont like the attack runs, you need to lead a bit before you start the first attack and start calculating risk/reward. Like how many planes you throw into the meatgrinder for how many hits? When unsure, go for an easy target in case you dont know the exact loses, predrop so you gamble with less. In the end, it was still way better played than the average.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I think I use the heal early because that's what I've been taught from Hakuryu. I'll try and use it more in mid AA then.

 

I played some Hakuryu so I know about DCP's. Should I just play closer? It feels like eagle can take a hit if I get spotted and need to run.

 

I think I prioritised the Seattle because it was radar. But I agree he was already dead. And I didn't know about the RN torpedos! I have to admit I wanted to get Patrie but decided against it and Freexped passed the Audacious because people keep saying its horrible.

 

I'll practice leading more. It sucks that the Super CV economy is bad enough that you don't want too many "practice' games.

 

 

[Juuzaam]

Vor 7 Minuten, Dutchpowah sagte:

It sucks that the Super CV economy is bad enough that you don't want too many "practice' games.

 

I think you got a Kaga? Might be the best Carrier to learn the CV gameplay. You can earn a lot xp and credits with it instead. There is also plenty of gameplay to learn from.

 

Vor 8 Minuten, Dutchpowah sagte:

Should I just play closer? It feels like eagle can take a hit if I get spotted and need to run.

 

You dont want to get into the border, thats the one rule i would set for positioning. Since super CVs got tac squads, you can sit fairly far behind. In general CVs got beside concealment also other stats that decide how close you can be. Like british CVs got armoured decks from tier VIII onwards, surviving some plumbing fire. Indomitable and Incapable are known to be slightly closer. Russian and IJN CVs are fairly light armoured easy to kill and weak decks. If you ge tto close you might get spotted by the enemy CV and if you are light and close enough, you might get even sniped. I do this on lower tier (like VIII) with Indom.

Vor 13 Minuten, Dutchpowah sagte:

I think I use the heal early because that's what I've been taught from Hakuryu

 

I dont want to set rules for using heals because you want to decide this on your own. You have to consider for how long do you have to take how much damage. In general you take way more damage the closer you get, you also take a burst when they press O. Fast moving torpedo planes, like Immelmann or Shoka want to use it imediatly and full bost throu the AA on both side to reduce the most damage. So when someone advised to use it when getting close, i would agree. UK and US planes are slower and drop way closer, you might  get a bit of close AA which is very high. In this case using the Heal slightly later becomes better imo. This also depends for how close you drop. Something to consider, if you end in fighter and have to mitigate, you should use a heal early. If you might want to make sure you dont get smacked by someone sittign behind your target and bursting your planes, you want to keep your heal and take the loses. Make your own decisions, but know the pros and cons of using early or late.

 

( i use it early for german Immel/Zeppelin, rather mid for Kaga, Shoka and Haku. But i havent played much Haku. The tech tree monster feel to strong for me tho)

[Yosha_AtaIante]

@Juuzaam

amazing work dude. I dont think there is any value if me adding my opinion as you went so in depth. Really nice to see people who ask for help relieve it in detail for once 

[Panocek]

15 hours ago, Juuzaam said:

I think you got a Kaga? Might be the best Carrier to learn the CV gameplay. You can earn a lot xp and credits with it instead. There is also plenty of gameplay to learn from.

While Kaga might be decent training CV with her reserves, she also don't really penalize for making blunders and losing two full squadrons in a row to single ship.

 

But as low effort, low impact BB farming CV just to make plane noises, she should be fine.

[Dutchpowah]

15 hours ago, Juuzaam said:

 

I think you got a Kaga? Might be the best Carrier to learn the CV gameplay. You can earn a lot xp and credits with it instead. There is also plenty of gameplay to learn from.

 

 

You dont want to get into the border, thats the one rule i would set for positioning. Since super CVs got tac squads, you can sit fairly far behind. In general CVs got beside concealment also other stats that decide how close you can be. Like british CVs got armoured decks from tier VIII onwards, surviving some plumbing fire. Indomitable and Incapable are known to be slightly closer. Russian and IJN CVs are fairly light armoured easy to kill and weak decks. If you ge tto close you might get spotted by the enemy CV and if you are light and close enough, you might get even sniped. I do this on lower tier (like VIII) with Indom.

 

I dont want to set rules for using heals because you want to decide this on your own. You have to consider for how long do you have to take how much damage. In general you take way more damage the closer you get, you also take a burst when they press O. Fast moving torpedo planes, like Immelmann or Shoka want to use it imediatly and full bost throu the AA on both side to reduce the most damage. So when someone advised to use it when getting close, i would agree. UK and US planes are slower and drop way closer, you might  get a bit of close AA which is very high. In this case using the Heal slightly later becomes better imo. This also depends for how close you drop. Something to consider, if you end in fighter and have to mitigate, you should use a heal early. If you might want to make sure you dont get smacked by someone sittign behind your target and bursting your planes, you want to keep your heal and take the loses. Make your own decisions, but know the pros and cons of using early or late.

 

( i use it early for german Immel/Zeppelin, rather mid for Kaga, Shoka and Haku. But i havent played much Haku. The tech tree monster feel to strong for me tho)

 

I do have Kaga (that's also the reason why I grinded the Hakuryu line). It's a fun ship but *so* much different that Shokaku. I'll take her out a few times again to get some more CV practice in. The attack planes are tragic on it though. So I'm not unhappy that Eagle don't even have normal attack planes. I do like the bombers a lot and the torpedo planes are fantastic. And yes it's almost impossible to run out of planes haha.

 

I'll just have to experiment a bit with what is *too* close. Like you said IJN cvs are made of paper so I always stayed way back.

 

Allright I think I understand the difference now. Again something i just need to flat out practice more.

 

Will I get benefit from watching Audicious plays? Not a lot of Eagle vids on youtube. And the ones that are are from when it was still broken.

 

So to sum it all up:

 

1. Don't start with bombers.

2. pre-drop going into heavy aa. Or not when I can find a lone target.

3. use heal later than I'm used to.

4. because of the RN torpedo planes I need to start diving later to get better angles

5. position CV away from the border

 

Anything that I missed?

 

Also am I correct that using the bombers on DD's/CL is a total waste of time? It feels like it. What should I use to engage those targets?

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

Seems like everywhere I look most CV experienced players say FDR is a more clan/ranked battle CV and not as good in Randoms, why is that?

 

Seems to be pretty OP with ability to drop massive torp attacks on bunched up Des Moines/Minotaur with a 180 degree turn. Cant really see how a CV like this wouldn't be good in Randoms?

[Panocek]

10 minutes ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

Seems like everywhere I look most CV experienced players say FDR is a more clan/ranked battle CV and not as good in Randoms, why is that?

 

Seems to be pretty OP with ability to drop massive torp attacks on bunched up Des Moines/Minotaur with a 180 degree turn. Cant really see how a CV like this wouldn't be good in Randoms?

She struggles against destroyers and in randoms island camping/bowtanking cruiser is more likely to "panic" and start evading TB only to show broadside to everyone in your team, denying you damage. That would be my observation.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

33 minutes ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

Seems like everywhere I look most CV experienced players say FDR is a more clan/ranked battle CV and not as good in Randoms, why is that?

 

Seems to be pretty OP with ability to drop massive torp attacks on bunched up Des Moines/Minotaur with a 180 degree turn. Cant really see how a CV like this wouldn't be good in Randoms?

It is good but "good" isn't enough when compared to Midway/ Haku influence. Its simple as that. Midway and Haku are far easier to use against cruisers and BBs while at the same time having an easier time killing DDs on their own which FDR simply can't do. FDR can only farm damage but damage doesn't always win you the game. 

 

In CBs FDR was meta until unicum meta teams discovered that FDR is basically incapable to deal with a DD which has petro AA cover. FDR loses to many planes and you can't predrop as for every pre drop you have to wait 25sec. Thats when midway was rediscovered. Its potent divebombers did the job 10x better.

 

And then the biggest issue with FDR is the terrible response time due to slow planes. Midway and Haku can both react fast to immediate priorities while FDR can't.

 

The ability to chain strike way faster with midway and Haku also allows them to kill their targets way faster too. This is the issues with FDR.

 

Arguably Nakhimov is in a better place than FDR.

 

Currently I would rank them like this 

Midway

Haku/Malta

Nakhi

FDR

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

16 hours ago, Panocek said:

She struggles against destroyers and in randoms island camping/bowtanking cruiser is more likely to "panic" and start evading TB only to show broadside to everyone in your team, denying you damage. That would be my observation.

 

15 hours ago, AtaIante said:

It is good but "good" isn't enough when compared to Midway/ Haku influence. Its simple as that. Midway and Haku are far easier to use against cruisers and BBs while at the same time having an easier time killing DDs on their own which FDR simply can't do. FDR can only farm damage but damage doesn't always win you the game. 

 

In CBs FDR was meta until unicum meta teams discovered that FDR is basically incapable to deal with a DD which has petro AA cover. FDR loses to many planes and you can't predrop as for every pre drop you have to wait 25sec. Thats when midway was rediscovered. Its potent divebombers did the job 10x better.

 

And then the biggest issue with FDR is the terrible response time due to slow planes. Midway and Haku can both react fast to immediate priorities while FDR can't.

 

The ability to chain strike way faster with midway and Haku also allows them to kill their targets way faster too. This is the issues with FDR.

 

Arguably Nakhimov is in a better place than FDR.

 

Currently I would rank them like this 

Midway

Haku/Malta

Nakhi

FDR

Sweet, that makes sense, thanks!

[Juuzaam]

Vor 21 Stunden, Dutchpowah sagte:

Anything that I missed?

 Sorry for the late answer and my misswording.

 

Starting with bombers is fine, but predropping was wrong.  You can spot 3ish different targets. A DD, you migth want to drop 3 times. A Bigger AA Cloud you wan to predrop before attacking to save a few planes. Or(!) the juicy solo BB. This is the guy that slams your cruisers,  might attract your DDs torps and you really really want to drop him for this and make him do something stupid. It will be super rewarding for your flank and you.  As an example, you drop him once, set a fire and presses DCP.  Now a timer runs for 10-12s up to 20-24s (depending on the nation and equipment) where he cant be set on fire again, if you turn and strike him again he might catch a perma fire now and usually gets perma spotted due to the increased +2km for being on fire. This is where they do mistakes. Showing belly, pushing directly or run into the border. All of this removes the devastating guns on the enemy side and grants damage for you.  This means, when you predrop you give one less drops to possible DDs , which is not good. But also lose the potential 2n drop on BBs that might crumble a flank. (Spawns are usually mirrored. You can use this to guess how the enemy side will look like, this often gives away an easy target and a flank to get for free)

Vor 23 Stunden, Dutchpowah sagte:

Also am I correct that using the bombers on DD's/CL is a total waste of time? It feels like it. What should I use to engage those targets? 

This is gone be very controversial. While Carriers can point and click targets, this doesnt work as good as people pretend against DDs. And we must be real on this. Only few Carriers can handle a DD alone in a reasonable amount of time, under limited loses. It often doesnt make sense to be the only one targeting a DD, spending 10 minutes, while you would be the last one getting killed by it. While the most damaging class, BBs can be deleted in 2 flights or 3 minutes. The quetion, is it worth going for a a single DD or multiple other targets at the same time.

 

The important take, there is a moment where DDs become very good in game, this is towards the end. And thats where you have to assist.

 

Cruisers are different, you can annoy stationary and heavy cruisers directly. Since these tend to be in radar postions, you want go for these often. Light cruisers often only need to be spotted to ge them removed. So spotting or flanking while they are enganged, by either hiding behind island or kiting away.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

33 minutes ago, Juuzaam said:

Light cruisers often only need to be spotted to ge them removed

Be careful with planting this idea. Relying on your own teammates by just spotting will get you disappointed quickly. Always have a backup plan to if you try spotting for a short while and it doesn't quite work to have an effective striking route or a way to get rid of said target yourself. Don't ever think your team is owing you anything for the spotting. Better light cruiser players will munch all your planes for free because of this as they don't tend to be spotted in positions where they can be deleted. They keep your presence in mind and in most situations are ready to be spotted by the CV. They can do that as they can clearly see your planes movements on the minimap and therefore rationalize how you play. They will know when you plan on spotting them before you do.

[SurfaceFish]

So anyone whaled the Malta today?

Looking at her in port, not a fan of the 3km larger detection over Audacious with unique upgrade. Plus with slower planes feels bit like FDR, she looks more of a damage over time CV than Audacious.