General CV related discussions.

[Juuzaam]

Vor 19 Stunden, The_Norwood sagte:

All they ever needed to do was give that final extra little tweak to AA that made it just useful enough to make a CV think carefully about their attack runs... Make CV players think, i know it's a hard task, but they are capable and will have much more fulfilling games because of it.

 

You dont know to much about playing a carrier yourself or? We might agree on this one. The core problem is the design of Carriers. They can spot, flank point and click damage you without any problems and there is usually not much you can do to prevent this in general. Thats rather frustrating and this is where it starts. If a ship gets the option or tools to deny any damage from the carrier, the carrier would be rather useless. The playerbase would be happy but weegee unable to sell premium carriers, events about new lines, boxes, whatever.  This is the designed flaw of carriers. They are either rewarding for weegee and the cv-player, while frustrating for the rest. The only alternative option to this makes carriers useless for weegee, the cv player but acceptable for the playerbase. 

 

But AA in its current state is not useless and CV-players already have to think about where, who and how to strike.  This becomes very clear when you play Tier 8 or 6 Carriers. The moment you get matched +2 it only takes one mistake and you dont deal any damage. (Unless you play Kaga or Enterprise and get away with a mistake here and there, because premium balance)

 

[quickr]

Having loads of fun in Hornet, ngl

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Just now, quickr said:

Having loads of fun in Hornet, ngl

really? That ship is kind of bad though why not play more effective ships? you like the challenge?

[quickr]

4 minutes ago, L0VE_and_PE4CE said:

really? That ship is kind of bad though why not play more effective ships? you like the challenge?

challenge? Oh god no. I suck at Cvs But I found torps easy to hit and I like HE bombs for dealing with DDs (as I can't hit crap with rockets). I feel like it's made for noobs like me

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, quickr said:

challenge? Oh god no. I suck at Cvs But I found torps easy to hit and I like HE bombs for dealing with DDs (as I can't hit crap with rockets). I feel like it's made for noobs like me

Rockets IMO are best used to (re)set fires. DDs I find satisfying to dump torps on.

If you cannot hit them with torps at least you can make them change direction. 

 

It would be very easy for WeeGee to balance CVs, there are enough CV players (even unicums) that have good ideas how to do it. 

Some mechanics are just so dumb even CV -players do not like them. Most are annoying and useless 'byproducts' like the spotting. 

They can even be harmful to the CV player, as (for example) when you have managed to 'outplay' the AA and manage that drop on that nasty Smolensk,

somebody else is gonna blap him because you were spotting that Smolensk for him. You do not even get a fair share of spotting damage. Bah!

[quickr]

1 minute ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Rockets IMO are best used to (re)set fires

Can't remember when was the last time I got fire with rockets. I just stopped using them for anything other that spotting and/or waiting for my torps/bombers to refill.

 

3 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

It would be very easy for WeeGee to balance CVs

They might be able but they are not willing is my guess

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, quickr said:

Can't remember when was the last time I got fire with rockets. I just stopped using them for anything other that spotting and/or waiting for my torps/bombers to refill.

Well if you use German CV then, yes... 

It depends on the CV of course. But usually I get a fire every 1-2 strikes. 

And yes indeed I consider them useless for mucho anything else, too. 
Any decent DD player avoids 90% (just your team, if any good, will kill him by guns).

 

1 minute ago, quickr said:

They might be able but they are not willing is my guess

I think they are afraid of the amount of "defects" they will have to fix.

I like the new interface, but the rest of the rework I find kinda crap.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

1 hour ago, quickr said:

Can't remember when was the last time I got fire with rockets. I just stopped using them for anything other that spotting and/or waiting for my torps/bombers to refill.

 

They might be able but they are not willing is my guess

use rockets to destroy AA modules and for easy damage on cruisers and BB.

Usually if you plan to strike a healthy target use rockets first to soften AA a little before going in with the main squad. you might even trigger a DCP with the rockets to get a sticky flood or broken engine after 

[quickr]

2 hours ago, L0VE_and_PE4CE said:

use rockets to destroy AA modules and for easy damage on cruisers and BB.

Usually if you plan to strike a healthy target use rockets first to soften AA a little before going in with the main squad. you might even trigger a DCP with the rockets to get a sticky flood or broken engine after 

Thx for the tips, appreciated

[deathsadow]

On 9/29/2022 at 8:22 PM, quickr said:

Thx for the tips, appreciated

The Soviet and the American Tiny Tims are pretty strong rockets, they have a larger delay but you can get really hard hits with them on larger ships rather easy.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

53 minutes ago, deathsadow said:

The Soviet and the American Tiny Tims are pretty strong rockets, they have a larger delay but you can get really hard hits with them on larger ships rather easy.

for nakhimov they are the only option but on midway given HVAR is much easier to hit with and still hits for 10k+reliably on cruisers without huge delay they are the more superior pick

[deathsadow]

3 hours ago, L0VE_and_PE4CE said:

for nakhimov they are the only option but on midway given HVAR is much easier to hit with and still hits for 10k+reliably on cruisers without huge delay they are the more superior pick

Thats good to know. I havent played the Midway since the rocket nerfs tbh , but the Tims on the Kearsarge are hitting like a truck 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

8 minutes ago, deathsadow said:

Thats good to know. I havent played the Midway since the rocket nerfs tbh , but the Tims on the Kearsarge are hitting like a truck 

You can do some good stuff with tits but if you are playing for carry potential and you need that DD killed fast HVAR beats them in utility. Basically if you want all in for the win playstyle you pick HVAR if you want to play more risky and farm go tits 

[EgyptOverseer]

7 hours ago, AtaIante said:

You can do some good stuff with tits (...) go tits 

[UnterSeeBot]

as things should be!

this is a gratuitous post.

[Fediuld]

Has anyone tried full stealth build with Audacious? 

With commander concealment, Concealment system mod 1 and Forced Take off, the carrier has 9.3km and 7.31km from air concealment. That's light cruiser values. 

(standard values are 14.3km and 11.2km respectively)

 

Effectively can hide the carrier pretty forward instead of trying to find islands or edge of the map having the airplanes crawling another 5-8km which also helps with it's slow airplanes. 

 

Also gets 20% engine boost added to the rest of the modules & skills adding to the boost time, -50% ship acceleration and -30% rudder shift time. 

 

Effectively can hide it at plain sight like a DD with its back to the enemies and run if needed (max speed 32 knots) 

 

[Juuzaam]

Vor 13 Stunden, Fediuld sagte:

Has anyone tried full stealth build with Audacious? 

With commander concealment...

Commander Concealment or Hidden Menace, shows how incredible incompetent Weegee is. But first the conclusion, you can not pick Hidden Menace, it is not only not good, is exceptional bad.

 

You will lose an astoning amount of planes when you go for Hidden Menace. Here is whats happening, if you play without Hidden Menace and drop/bail out, your planes will go into high altitude, where they cant take damage and will return to the carrier. With Hidden Menace, the moment you drop or bail out, your planes will be 50% slower to reach high or savety altitude. And now something troublesome will happen. Ships constantly throw flak clouds in front of planes paths. The player can dodge these and the regular time until your planes hit high altitude is not enough to get hit by flak either, unless(!) you pick Hidden Menace. Your returning squad will eat flak and almost every remaining plane will get deleted every time. With Hidden Menace you will be deplaned in 10 minutes. Do not pick Hidden Menace.

 

My gratitude towards Wargaming for not understanding how their own mechanics work and implementing this, while also not being able to fix this bug for 14 Months already!

[FafnerSaltyDragon]

6 minutes ago, Juuzaam said:

Commander Concealment or Hidden Menace, shows how incredible incompetent Weegee is. But first the conclusion, you can not pick Hidden Menace, it is not only not good, is exceptional bad.

Its not a skill, its a meme.

14 hours ago, Fediuld said:

Has anyone tried full stealth build with Audacious? 

With commander concealment, Concealment system mod 1 and Forced Take off, the carrier has 9.3km and 7.31km from air concealment. That's light cruiser values. 

(standard values are 14.3km and 11.2km respectively)

 

Effectively can hide the carrier pretty forward instead of trying to find islands or edge of the map having the airplanes crawling another 5-8km which also helps with it's slow airplanes. 

 

Also gets 20% engine boost added to the rest of the modules & skills adding to the boost time, -50% ship acceleration and -30% rudder shift time. 

 

Effectively can hide it at plain sight like a DD with its back to the enemies and run if needed (max speed 32 knots) 

Hidden Menace is a meme. the only "use" I ever found for it was
1. Kaga Stealth meme build
2. MvR fast immunity bombers (the MvR bombers fly soo high that when you run hidden menace the bombers will get to safety faster even with the slow speed but you might have to be funky with when you drop to do it "right" not done it in ages how ever)
the MvR and Kaga HM tests never went beyond training room for me as I didn't want to retrain a 21pt for HM build and with the Nerf train to MvR... well lets just say she is a glorified port queen now.


The draw back about this skill is 
Time it takes planes to get back and its a 4 pointer. 
Using this skill on CVs without a insane hanger capacity like Kaga, you might find yourself with all your planes in the air... on the way back the carrier...
I tried to make the skill work somehow but gave up as a normal CV build would just be better. 


Hidden Menace is the THE least used 4 pointer. All the others have more use and are used more. 

Torp damage is good since more damage.
Bomb plane speed is good since speed is good for faster and more strikes in.
I see a lot more secondary memes than hidden menace (just look at any GZ enjoyer).
Flak damage reduction is good for certain CVs.
and Super fighters for when you really want to spot people for 2min and lock on enemy planes in 0.0000001 seconds.

All of those skills are useful and has game impact that out preforms Hidden menace. I would love hidden menace to be good but it is not sadly. 3 pointer skills outperform it. 


TLDR Hidden Menace bad. Pls buff. Don't use.
I am not saying I'm the best player. Nor am I saying I'm right. These are just my thoughts on the skill. 
(and I probably missed a lot of points)

[SurfaceFish]

I have played the US with Hidden Menace since the jets don't come back and the reduction to the hull's surface and air detection is more useful to me than few some standard planes coming back. 

 

I do have the unique upgrade on Audacious but no other concealment bonuses. She already have less planes than other CV, so can't afford the extra lose. 

[FafnerSaltyDragon]

2 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

I have played the US with Hidden Menace since the jets don't come back and the reduction to the hull's surface and air detection is more useful to me than few some standard planes coming back. 

 

I do have the unique upgrade on Audacious but no other concealment bonuses. She already have less planes than other CV, so can't afford the extra lose. 

i have not tried it with super cvs as their special squads, I can see the advantage but Super CVs can get soo much damage with standard CV build anyway and you don't want to be too close in them as they need distance to target for angle of approach anyway 

[SurfaceFish]

19 minutes ago, TheSaltyDragon said:

i have not tried it with super cvs as their special squads, I can see the advantage but Super CVs can get soo much damage with standard CV build anyway and you don't want to be too close in them as they need distance to target for angle of approach anyway 

All true, I just don't like the over 15km surface detection of US, 13.2km with HM is more comfortable for me to play her. With pre drop of HE bombers if attacking into few ships, I don't see too much difference in dmg with my avg CV skill. 

 

I agree that i dont think using HM on any other CV is advantageous. 

[Fediuld]

On 10/4/2022 at 11:00 AM, Juuzaam said:

Commander Concealment or Hidden Menace, shows how incredible incompetent Weegee is. But first the conclusion, you can not pick Hidden Menace, it is not only not good, is exceptional bad.

 

You will lose an astoning amount of planes when you go for Hidden Menace. Here is whats happening, if you play without Hidden Menace and drop/bail out, your planes will go into high altitude, where they cant take damage and will return to the carrier. With Hidden Menace, the moment you drop or bail out, your planes will be 50% slower to reach high or savety altitude. And now something troublesome will happen. Ships constantly throw flak clouds in front of planes paths. The player can dodge these and the regular time until your planes hit high altitude is not enough to get hit by flak either, unless(!) you pick Hidden Menace. Your returning squad will eat flak and almost every remaining plane will get deleted every time. With Hidden Menace you will be deplaned in 10 minutes. Do not pick Hidden Menace.

  

My gratitude towards Wargaming for not understanding how their own mechanics work and implementing this, while also not being able to fix this bug for 14 Months already!

One of the reasons haven't picked the Hidden Menace is that never used it that why asked. 

 

It does state that the airplanes have -50% time to get to safe altitude however doesn't seem so, it this a bug then? 

[Fediuld]

On 10/4/2022 at 12:08 PM, SurfaceFish said:

I have played the US with Hidden Menace since the jets don't come back and the reduction to the hull's surface and air detection is more useful to me than few some standard planes coming back. 

 

I do have the unique upgrade on Audacious but no other concealment bonuses. She already have less planes than other CV, so can't afford the extra lose. 

Thank you 

[kaesarsosei]

Question for Immelmann commanders - is the third upgrade Skip Bomber module necessary? (ie +2secs to Skip Bomb attack time). I was thinking of putting the secondary mod on instead. I just got the ship last week from a container and haven't played it yet.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

No its not necessary. The planes are fast enough to close the gap quickly compared to Nakhimov