General CV related discussions.

[black_falcon120]

2 hours ago, Youshanai said:

Your ideas are true but that doesn't mean much, I will explain to you why you are wrong.

 

 

1#:

Ships that have enough AA to reduce the amounts of same squadron attacks  alone usually are compromised in other areas because of it and permanently compromised in battles without CVs just because of "better AA" which overall is a negative as even in CV games if the CV doesnt attack you then one whole speshul thing about your ship "better AA" is wasted.

 

2#:

An experienced CV player knows from the start how many planes he will lose to which ship at any given position and time and will strike it regardless of the fact that less attack runs are possible with deadly precision and efficiency. You can't defend yourself from the first and most times only needed attack.

CV players with less experience might be stupid enough o approach a "better AA" ship in circumstances where the damage done would nit only be completely wasted but also diminish the effectiveness of the CV players gameplay greatly.

Now while this sounds like a positive for the surface ship in reality it only means its sinking just got delayed for when the strike is actually right.

 

3#:

Experienced CV players will soften their targets AA with rocket planes. A rocket plane attack kills AA mounts which will then allow the main squadron to put in 3 out of 4 attack runs. Goodbye AA I guess

 

and lastly 4#:

The best AA is for the enemy CV to be a potato who cant play the class well and even then he might still be spotting you sometimes when you dont really want if to happen. So yeah.

Your points don't work

 

 

When you say my idea is 'true', do you mean you agree with it?

1. not so, look at the DM and mino.

 

2. irrelevant, the AA makes the CV player think twice, and reduces his damage output, playing CV is always balancing the damage output against team impact. Forcing them to waste time dealing minimal damage to you to swing the game is good.

 

3. Rocket planes don't usually do appreciable damage to aa mounts, they usually knock off a maximum of 4 mounts, out of rather a lot, and as such don't appreciably reduce AA output.

[Port_Authority]

I had a standard game with Shiratsuyu, T8 carriers. Win steamroll, 12 mins. Their CV, a Impacable, focused me for the entire match. I was not that relevant.

I had 13.000 plane damage, which is about two minutes of him being on top of my head only. Out of 12 minutes of a standard game 2 minutes his planes were 2.5 km away from me.

Although both teams went 2 flank split, I had to move myself to map center in hope that he continues to strike the flank and not me. But that doesn't happen. He goes at me all the time, but I manage to push up more and more. When I was already near their base, their both flanks were pushed away and crippled, since he didn't actually support any of them. I come to cap and soon others come too and it's game over.

Their CV started supporting the other flank as he abandoned the base positioning and went there. Supported none of the teammates, allowed us to come to base, and then said to chat "gg this team had no chance".

This behaviour is cancerous towards a single enemy player and towards your entire team.
I understand that CV did that out of lack of skill, but game mechanics shouldn't enable that kind of behaviour.

Maybe a damage/spotting penalty for consecutive strikes and spots on a single target, unless the target is closest to the CV hull, would ease the harassment part while still leaving CVs as OP as they come.
Each consecutive spot lowers air spotting for 100m until 2km is reached. Consecutive drops - 10% dmg penalty next one and so on, until they successfully strike another target.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

30 minutes ago, black_falcon120 said:

irrelevant, the AA makes the CV player think twice, 

not twice, only once. I know from the start how it's going to be and how I will kill you in endgame if you dont die beforehand. I don't want to explain it all as it depends on scenarios and individual battles but in most cases as mt success backs me up on it turns out that those shops barely pose a problem to my gameplan and therefore their AA doesn't change anything.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

32 minutes ago, black_falcon120 said:

Rocket planes don't usually do appreciable damage to aa mounts, they usually knock off a maximum of 4 mounts, out of rather a lot, and as such don't appreciably reduce AA output.

Look i appreciate you trying to challenge this idea but if you knock out just one AA mount on a Halland for example you cripple 20% of its strongest AA mounts.

I know it looks difficult at first but once you get more comfortable you will understand how little effect AA actually has on your influence and battle plans

[black_falcon120]

6 minutes ago, Youshanai said:

Look i appreciate you trying to challenge this idea but if you knock out just one AA mount on a Halland for example you cripple 20% of its strongest AA mounts.

I know it looks difficult at first but once you get more comfortable you will understand how little effect AA actually has on your influence and battle plans

Halland yes, but you have to get lcky and hit the right spot. For battleships and cruisers, this is much less effective. 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

12 minutes ago, Port_Authority said:

I had a standard game with Shiratsuyu, T8 carriers. Win steamroll, 12 mins. Their CV, a Impacable, focused me for the entire match. I was not that relevant.

I had 13.000 plane damage, which is about two minutes of him being on top of my head only. Out of 12 minutes of a standard game 2 minutes his planes were 2.5 km away from me.

Although both teams went 2 flank split, I had to move myself to map center in hope that he continues to strike the flank and not me. But that doesn't happen. He goes at me all the time, but I manage to push up more and more. When I was already near their base, their both flanks were pushed away and crippled, since he didn't actually support any of them. I come to cap and soon others come too and it's game over.

Their CV started supporting the other flank as he abandoned the base positioning and went there. Supported none of the teammates, allowed us to come to base, and then said to chat "gg this team had no chance".

This behaviour is cancerous towards a single enemy player and towards your entire team.
I understand that CV did that out of lack of skill, but game mechanics shouldn't enable that kind of behaviour.

Maybe a damage/spotting penalty for consecutive strikes and spots on a single target, unless the target is closest to the CV hull, would ease the harassment part while still leaving CVs as OP as they come.
Each consecutive spot lowers air spotting for 100m until 2km is reached. Consecutive drops - 10% dmg penalty next one and so on, until they successfully strike another target.

I actually drank a lot of wine and came up with a Heureka moment.

 

How about after the CV targets a specific target to often an invincible fighter plane spawns around that target protecting it for the next 3minutes. It can't be cheesed or shot down by AA, cant spot enemy team either.

It would trigger as soon as any attack planes enter its radius and shoot down all of them before they can do a strike.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Just now, black_falcon120 said:

Halland yes, but you have to get lcky and hit the right spot. For battleships and cruisers, this is much less effective. 

not really. Rockets do also have aoe explosion on the hits hitting and disabling AA mounts even without directly hitting them.

 

Just 2 rocket strikes on a Montana for example can reduce its AA to 60%.

Try it in training room with a friend who can report back the exact AA damage you did to him 

[Port_Authority]

4 minutes ago, Youshanai said:

I actually drank a lot of wine and came up with a Heureka moment.

 

How about after the CV targets a specific target to often an invincible fighter plane spawns around that target protecting it for the next 3minutes. It can't be cheesed or shot down by AA, cant spot enemy team either.

It would trigger as soon as any attack planes enter its radius and shoot down all of them before they can do a strike.

 

 

I believe that's too much but I would remove CVs entirely anyway.

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

2 minutes ago, Port_Authority said:

 

 

I believe that's too much but I would remove CVs entirely anyway.

 

I will remove you from the game by focusing the hell out of you in my CVs before you had the chance to remove them

[JohnMac79]

9 minutes ago, black_falcon120 said:

Halland yes, but you have to get lcky and hit the right spot. For battleships and cruisers, this is much less effective. 

 Other surface ships get their AA knocked out a little at a time just with being shot at. Just play a conq and shoot something a few times with HE and see how much stuff breaks.

 

Not that it would matter anyway considering how useless AA is in this game now. Was in a Mecklenburg earlier, saw planes coming in and popped def aa when they were at the 6km mark, he started his attack run and i shot down a total of 1 plane before he recalled and started the next attack. This idea that AA is strong or effective is simply laughable.

[black_falcon120]

13 hours ago, JohnMac79 said:

 Not that it would matter anyway considering how useless AA is in this game now. Was in a Mecklenburg earlier, saw planes coming in and popped def aa when they were at the 6km mark, he started his attack run and i shot down a total of 1 plane before he recalled and started the next attack. This idea that AA is strong or effective is simply laughable.

So your aa forced a carrier to recall? That’s a good outcome for you - and is exactly what my idea is supposed to highlight! 
 

13 hours ago, JohnMac79 said:

 Other surface ships get their AA knocked out a little at a time just with being shot at. Just play a conq and shoot something a few times with HE and see how much stuff breaks.

Maybe but saying CVs can organically cripple aa defences is usually untrue.

[Tanaka_15]

18 minutes ago, black_falcon120 said:

So your aa forced a carrier to recall? That’s a good outcome for you - and is exactly what my idea is supposed to highlight! 
 

Maybe but saying CVs can organically cripple aa defences is usually untrue.

Cv just ignores aa 

[NewHorizons_1]

20 hours ago, black_falcon120 said:

I've been thinking about why players think AA is ineffective, and I think I've worked it out. The majority of the power of AA is not in shooting down planes, it's about limiting the number of strikes a CV can get off per squadron.  As an example imagine a 12 plane squadron with four strikes in it. A ship with bad aa will probably be attacked three times, a ship with good aa, maybe only once or twice. 

 

This means that the effect of aa is hidden from players, and leads to them them being blissfully unaware how powerful their AA actually is. In order to mitigate this risk, I propsose to add a 'scared plane' ribbon, where you get this ribbon if a CV player recalls within ten seconds of you damaging his squadron with AA. I think this would be a good way of letting surface ships know that their AA is actually having an effect.

  

I would be open to either these ribbons being awarded for individual planes or only to individual strikes prevented. 

Some other points

1) Some CV players drop a payload just after launching a squadron with the intent of preserving those planes for the next squadron. That would have the effect of reducing the number of scared planes.

2) Russian CV squadrons drop their payload in one strike, so there are no recalled planes

3) Knowing that the CV player has recalled a squadron is of little consolation when its first AP bomb strike nuked your CA's citadel for 40% of your health.

 

[JohnMac79]

2 hours ago, black_falcon120 said:

So your aa forced a carrier to recall? That’s a good outcome for you - and is exactly what my idea is supposed to highlight!

Did you read tha part where i shot down 1 plane with def AA, after he had struck me for around 15k and while the planes were returning to the carrier, and was back within 30 seconds to strike again... It was not a good outcome at all, it shows the OPPOSITE of what you think it does... How exactly does this mean i have strong AA??

 

2 hours ago, black_falcon120 said:

Maybe but saying CVs can organically cripple aa defences is usually untrue.

Not as untrue as it is to claim people dont realise how powerful their AA is.

[Port_Authority]

17 hours ago, Youshanai said:

I will remove you from the game by focusing the hell out of you in my CVs before you had the chance to remove them

Oh look it's the 50% of my games are in a division "super unicum CV"
Funnily enough, you're nowhere near as powerful when you play surface ships. In some of the battleship mainstays of the game you're 48% on a big sample size.

 

If I'm in my division, I don't care about you focusing me. The largest portion of your service record are CV divisions. You are not only a random Internet griever, you try to ensure by divisioning that random turn of events does not cut your turkey shoot short.

You're also a worst kind of a player for this game, the player that uses asymmetric class to seal club around, while his performance in normal classes is just OK, and aggressively defends the OP crap because he can't impact the game against skilled players without his CV.

 

You're on EU server. I'd gladly organize a sync drop in random between your clan division and mine and shut your Internet warrior mouth for good.

[Nov_A]

Nooooo not the heccin divisiorinoooos!

[Yosha_AtaIante]

3 hours ago, Port_Authority said:

Oh look it's the 50% of my games are in a division "super unicum CV"
Funnily enough, you're nowhere near as powerful when you play surface ships. In some of the battleship mainstays of the game you're 48% on a big sample size.

 

If I'm in my division, I don't care about you focusing me. The largest portion of your service record are CV divisions. You are not only a random Internet griever, you try to ensure by divisioning that random turn of events does not cut your turkey shoot short.

You're also a worst kind of a player for this game, the player that uses asymmetric class to seal club around, while his performance in normal classes is just OK, and aggressively defends the OP crap because he can't impact the game against skilled players without his CV.

 

You're on EU server. I'd gladly organize a sync drop in random between your clan division and mine and shut your Internet warrior mouth for good.

who hurt you again?

 

Also I doubt i would need a div to deal with your div. Just Midway will be fine do deal with you

[Bear__Necessities]

21 hours ago, black_falcon120 said:

Halland yes, but you have to get lcky and hit the right spot.

You're bold in assuming you won't lose that AA mounts to other ships with guns when spotted. 

[Nibenay78]

40 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

You're bold in assuming you won't lose that AA mounts to other ships with guns when spotted. 

Thunderer wants a word with him.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

38 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

Thunderer wants a word with him.

or Ragnar O_O

[Aethervoxx]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't it supposed to be impossible for reworked CVs to have four squadrons of planes in the air at the same time? I can see two - one returning & one departing the CV but four?

Proof that Wedgie allows a T4 CV to have four plane squadrons in the air at the same time: Screenshot;

Count them, two of two types of planes in the air at the same time  - for the enemy team, ofc, the team WG was giving the CHEAT to. I've never seen my team have four planes from the same CV in the air at the same time 

[black_falcon120]

2 hours ago, Youshanai said:

Also I doubt i would need a div to deal with your div. Just Midway will be fine do deal with you

Please don't exaggerate, it could be taken as fact...

 

2 hours ago, Bear__Necessities said:

You're bold in assuming you won't lose that AA mounts to other ships with guns when spotted. 

True, but AP is the more common shell type in my experience, it isn't reliable, and can't be seen from the sky, do you think letting the CV see the aa health of a ship would be a good idea?

 

47 minutes ago, Aethervoxx said:

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't it supposed to be impossible for reworked CVs to have four squadrons of planes in the air at the same time? I can see two - one returning & one departing the CV but four?

Proof that Wedgie allows a T4 CV to have four plane squadrons in the air at the same time: Screenshot;

Count them, two of two types of planes in the air at the same time  - for the enemy team, ofc, the team WG was giving the CHEAT to. I've never seen my team have four planes from the same CV in the air at the same time 

You do realise there are two CVs on the enemy team in that screenshot?

[arquata2019_]

Citazione

1) Some CV players drop a payload just after launching a squadron with the intent of preserving those planes for the next squadron. That would have the effect of reducing the number of scared planes.

Predropping the moment the planes take off is usually an awful decision.

 

9 ore fa, NewHorizons_1 ha scritto:

2) Russian CV squadrons drop their payload in one strike, so there are no recalled planes

Other than that, they enjoy some benefits such as the AA (and maybe flak too) reduction by ~30% .

 

6 ore fa, Port_Authority ha scritto:

Oh look it's the 50% of my games are in a division "super unicum CV"

The second problem is when he comes back with another squad or attack wing.

 

Citazione

Oh look it's the 50% of my games are in a division "super unicum CV"

While Youshanai does have almost about half his CV matches played in a division, you can also sort out by battles his CV stats and you'll find some CV with pretty high stats and pretty good to high battles number (Shokaku and Midway). Also looking at his WR in those CVs can give you an idea of how skilled a ship (especially, CV) player is.

I am not defending anybody between the two but just wanted to give my opinion on it.

Alle 27/8/2022 alle 00:11, black_falcon120 ha scritto:

Halland yes, but you have to get lcky and hit the right spot. For battleships and cruisers, this is much less effective. 

It's not really a problem and you can reliably destroy AA mounts with really any HE rockets with T10 CVs. Same goes for T8 CVs.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

2 hours ago, black_falcon120 said:

Please don't exaggerate, it could be taken as fact...

I don't make claims i can't back up and I'm ready to prove them. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

35 minutes ago, Youshanai said:

I don't make claims i can't back up and I'm ready to prove them. 

Here is proof that I am the best potater CV player ever (or maybe I play too much Smolensk).