CptBarney Players 8,127 posts 245 battles Report post #1026 Posted May 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said: Come on people, we are at about 250 pages of CV-"discussion" /counting the +200 pages from the previous topic. Unless you are really bored, its time to stop. Nothing is ever gonna change and for nothing any of us writes here will change anything. Some of us experianced this even before CV rework was ever a topic, when trying to improve RTS CVs. We are at a point, where every second new players turns into a CV main at T4 (a bad one, I might add), while the other half turns into JB mains. If you are really that upset with where WG is driving this game, there is only one sensible solution... Well almostt 1k pages now, but humans will never stop unless they are totally complacent. plus not to mention you will always get new peeps that continue the discussion/rant/arguements forward. Either way if you want immediate chamges you would need a large and consistent reaction, although that doesnt mean people will get what they first complained about. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CHEFT] ForlornSailor Players 7,374 posts 11,735 battles Report post #1027 Posted May 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said: And gave you the rework You didnt get the rework? lel. 6 minutes ago, CptBarney said: although that doesnt mean people will get what they first complained about. Thats true. You will never make everyone happy, no matter how good its objectively is. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DREAD] 1MajorKoenig Players 13,110 posts 7,885 battles Report post #1028 Posted May 7, 2020 51 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said: You didnt get the rework? lel. It did and I am fine with it. What I meant: I didn’t complain before either, I just didn’t want to play it really due to it’s design. But that is pure personal preference and taste Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BICHO] poopooo Players 133 posts 4,845 battles Report post #1029 Posted May 7, 2020 For me, I am with a level 6 aircraft carrier in a new system, although it needs a few tweaks, I do not see anything wrong, now the aircraft carriers do less damage than before and you have to play them very well and that the enemy does almost nothing to avoid you to get make a game of at most 100,000, in my games the normal is 45,000 or 50,000 on average, and for example in the last game that an enemy destroyer played, he found me and killed me before I could kill him with the rocket planes, that Yes, kill him with another platoon of rocket planes that he takes out just before he dies. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BBMM] BLUB__BLUB [BBMM] Players 8,818 posts 17,194 battles Report post #1030 Posted May 7, 2020 40 minutes ago, poopooo said: For me, I am with a level 6 aircraft carrier in a new system, although it needs a few tweaks, I do not see anything wrong, now the aircraft carriers do less damage than before and you have to play them very well and that the enemy does almost nothing to avoid you to get make a game of at most 100,000, in my games the normal is 45,000 or 50,000 on average, and for example in the last game that an enemy destroyer played, he found me and killed me before I could kill him with the rocket planes, that Yes, kill him with another platoon of rocket planes that he takes out just before he dies. IMO there is no damage-problem, on the average. But there is a problem that ships cannot DO anything to counter/deny. Like DD vs cruiser - the DD can smoke (then gets killed because radar/hydro), or run. But he can also fight back: shoot, torpedo, spot that cruiser for his buddies. If a DD gets focused by a CV... there is not much he can do, except smoke (run, twitch). He cannot even run much, planes are much faster. Yes his AA kills planes (muhaahaha well, maybe one or two...). But that is not any action he takes himself or can perform. It is mostly RNG, direction of shooting even led by the planes from the CV. Also, it would be like only being able to shoot at the turrets if he got attacked by a cruiser... Yes I understand DDs. T6 is probably the most "balanced". Under that, CV is too simple (and there's too many). Above T6, CVs get more power but also cost a lot (service cost) so only the better players remain. And those know how to avoid any "risks". AA direction is determined by the planes... that are controlled by the CV-player... Yes if you steer them a certain way, that AA will not hit you. So... no problem...for a good CV player. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] AgarwaenME Beta Tester 4,811 posts 13,808 battles Report post #1031 Posted May 7, 2020 2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said: IMO there is no damage-problem, on the average. But there is a problem that ships cannot DO anything to counter/deny. Like DD vs cruiser - the DD can smoke (then gets killed because radar/hydro), or run. But he can also fight back: shoot, torpedo, spot that cruiser for his buddies. If a DD gets focused by a CV... there is not much he can do, except smoke (run, twitch). He cannot even run much, planes are much faster. Yes his AA kills planes (muhaahaha well, maybe one or two...). But that is not any action he takes himself or can perform. It is mostly RNG, direction of shooting even led by the planes from the CV. Also, it would be like only being able to shoot at the turrets if he got attacked by a cruiser... Yes I understand DDs. T6 is probably the most "balanced". Under that, CV is too simple (and there's too many). Above T6, CVs get more power but also cost a lot (service cost) so only the better players remain. And those know how to avoid any "risks". AA direction is determined by the planes... that are controlled by the CV-player... Yes if you steer them a certain way, that AA will not hit you. So... no problem...for a good CV player. And this is why the rework failed. There's no real increase in players playing high tier CVs, DDs are still the most vulnerable (just that nowadays there's loads of DDs without smoke too) even though BBabies will forever whine the most about CVs. The actual gameplay for CVs now is.. for me personally just not really rewarding, as it feels mostly like you're just shuttling planes to and fro, without the grander scale tactics and overview needed. Flak is badly implemented (quite frankly I think it would be better to just remove it and just make AAA more similar to before), or at least make flak bursts random enough to not just allow the same approach to avoid it. There are many ways the original CVs could have been changed, but even the most basic change requested by CV players of that time, and one agreed to by people not playing them (a few die hard CV haters aside who simply wanted them removed, granted they've been replaced by a new breed of CV haters nowadays), ie to just even damage potential across tiers (IJN TBs had the same torps from t4-t7, making them over the top at the start and very weak before the step up to t8), and leveling the AAA curve to reduce the no fly zones and the free fly zones, preferably by making AAA stronger but giving a penalty to stacking AAA auras. But instead they went ahead to completely redo it, and having to start from scratch to balance both CVs and the capabilities of ships to fight them. In the end, same with other nerfs (to torps, stealth fire, HE, cap skills etc etc) is the resulting unintended consequences that just ends up blowing up on these forums in whine threads from the same people who wanted things changed to their favour in the first place. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[XTREM] Miragetank90 Players 2,626 posts 18,696 battles Report post #1032 Posted May 7, 2020 41 minutes ago, AgarwaenME said: There's no real increase in players playing high tier CVs Hm, well... So I'd say in that sense(increase in players), it succeeded. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] AgarwaenME Beta Tester 4,811 posts 13,808 battles Report post #1033 Posted May 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said: Hm, well... So I'd say in that sense(increase in players), it succeeded. Well that's more than the last numbers I read. Though does those numbers also show total number of players? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[HAKUY] Yosha_AtaIante Players 8,032 posts 19,168 battles Report post #1034 Posted May 7, 2020 Vor 5 Minuten, Miragetank90 sagte: Hm, well... So I'd say in that sense(increase in players), it succeeded. The numbers are yet to get stable and they won't in the near future. At the moment since COVID they are inflated and they will continue to be inflated after release of FDRoosevelt and the German CVs. Only after all that calmss down the numbers will actually start to be worth evaluating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CptBarney Players 8,127 posts 245 battles Report post #1035 Posted May 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Yoshanai said: The numbers are yet to get stable and they won't in the near future. At the moment since COVID they are inflated and they will continue to be inflated after release of FDRoosevelt and the German CVs. Only after all that calmss down the numbers will actually start to be worth evaluating. Probs be around 4-5% after 5+ months once lockdowns around the world start lifting and people stop fearing the disease so much. Thats if nothing else happens from now till then irl that continues the trend or exaggerates it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BBMM] BLUB__BLUB [BBMM] Players 8,818 posts 17,194 battles Report post #1036 Posted May 7, 2020 57 minutes ago, AgarwaenME said: And this is why the rework failed. There's no real increase in players playing high tier CVs, DDs are still the most vulnerable (just that nowadays there's loads of DDs without smoke too) even though BBabies will forever whine the most about CVs. The actual gameplay for CVs now is.. for me personally just not really rewarding, as it feels mostly like you're just shuttling planes to and fro, without the grander scale tactics and overview needed. Increase in high-tier CVs would be there, but they increased the service cost... to a point you have to do A LOT of damage to not bleed credits. But... low risk, low reward. You have to spam A LOT to make good on the service cost, and most CV-players can't do it. Yes and DDs are still the most vulnerable, as they were. High risk, high damage (any DD can sink a BB with a set of torps...). I enjoy Ark Royal - as you have slow planes, you HAVE TO move the CV around and watch how the game evolves. In Kaga, for example, not so much. Planes are very fast. Also, it has such a lot of torpedo spam/bomber spam that it is hard to fail. Avoiding FLAK is also quite easy. 57 minutes ago, AgarwaenME said: Flak is badly implemented (quite frankly I think it would be better to just remove it and just make AAA more similar to before), or at least make flak bursts random enough to not just allow the same approach to avoid it. The main thing is that FLAK has a pre-determined pattern and where that pattern spawns is DETERMINED BY the speed/direction of the planes. Imagine the challenge... the challenge is to avoid the FLAK that YOUR OWN PLANES have created... well... 57 minutes ago, AgarwaenME said: There are many ways the original CVs could have been changed, but even the most basic change requested by CV players of that time, and one agreed to by people not playing them (a few die hard CV haters aside who simply wanted them removed, granted they've been replaced by a new breed of CV haters nowadays), ie to just even damage potential across tiers (IJN TBs had the same torps from t4-t7, making them over the top at the start and very weak before the step up to t8), and leveling the AAA curve to reduce the no fly zones and the free fly zones, preferably by making AAA stronger but giving a penalty to stacking AAA auras. But instead they went ahead to completely redo it, and having to start from scratch to balance both CVs and the capabilities of ships to fight them. I'm not sure if I understand that sentence. But they DID level out the IJN TBs and all that. Granted they made a mess of AA. But well. 57 minutes ago, AgarwaenME said: In the end, same with other nerfs (to torps, stealth fire, HE, cap skills etc etc) is the resulting unintended consequences that just ends up blowing up on these forums in whine threads from the same people who wanted things changed to their favour in the first place. Yes that's the thing. Everybody wants it to change in their FAVOUR. Every time though an unspotted DD manages to sink my BB, well... And everytime an (unspotted) BB manages to blap my cruiser, well... But when you do GOOD in this game it means you SMACK the other guy. That is what they forget. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[XTREM] Miragetank90 Players 2,626 posts 18,696 battles Report post #1037 Posted May 7, 2020 31 minutes ago, AgarwaenME said: Well that's more than the last numbers I read. Though does those numbers also show total number of players? 28 minutes ago, Yoshanai said: The numbers are yet to get stable and they won't in the near future. At the moment since COVID they are inflated and they will continue to be inflated after release of FDRoosevelt and the German CVs. Only after all that calmss down the numbers will actually start to be worth evaluating. On the left I see ''% of total amount of battles'' and the bottom are dates which starts from right before the rework in 2019(notice the bump in CV popularity VS. the dip in DD popularity) to currently. The last date on the bottom is the 1st of May 2020. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] AgarwaenME Beta Tester 4,811 posts 13,808 battles Report post #1038 Posted May 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Miragetank90 said: On the left I see ''% of total amount of battles'' and the bottom are dates which starts from right before the rework in 2019(notice the bump in CV popularity VS. the dip in DD popularity) to currently. The last date on the bottom is the 1st of May 2020. Ye, I just wonder how it works in terms of total player base, ie how many actual battles. Do they even show the count of logged in players anywhere now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[XTREM] Miragetank90 Players 2,626 posts 18,696 battles Report post #1039 Posted May 7, 2020 59 minutes ago, CptBarney said: Probs be around 4-5% after 5+ months once lockdowns around the world start lifting and people stop fearing the disease so much. Thats if nothing else happens from now till then irl that continues the trend or exaggerates it. What happens IRL is not really relevant to this graph, since it's showing the shared % totals of the amount of battles played(regardless of how many battles are played). So even if the total no. of battles played in WOWS goes up or down due to COVID, it's not going to have an effect on the % of CV battles within that total. Besides, this is also showing data from way before the pandemic began. And when it did hit, no significant change was registered on this graph. Right now, we are actually in one of the more stable periods. 33 minutes ago, AgarwaenME said: Ye, I just wonder how it works in terms of total player base, ie how many actual battles. Do they even show the count of logged in players anywhere now? Not sure. But this in itself paints a good picture I think. Popularity definitely went up, and stayed up since last year. Interesting thing, notice how DD and CV trends are pretty mirrored for the most part. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[XTREM] Miragetank90 Players 2,626 posts 18,696 battles Report post #1040 Posted May 7, 2020 @CptBarney @Yoshanai @AgarwaenME Sorry, forgot this part... Because I'm dumb. Sorry. Hopefully it makes more sense now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CptBarney Players 8,127 posts 245 battles Report post #1041 Posted May 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said: What happens IRL is not really relevant to this graph, since it's showing the shared % totals of the amount of battles played(regardless of how many battles are played). So even if the total no. of battles played in WOWS goes up or down due to COVID, it's not going to have an effect on the % of CV battles within that total. Besides, this is also showing data from way before the pandemic began. And when it did hit, no significant change was registered on this graph. Right now, we are actually in one of the more stable periods. I can't actually see the dates because they are too small, I assumed it was recent data. Im pretty sure in more recent graphs there would be a noticeable shift, especially since its been 2 almost 3 months for some places with lockdowns (i think). So i have no clue what date thats from, till when. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TORAZ] El2aZeR Beta Tester 15,786 posts 26,801 battles Report post #1042 Posted May 7, 2020 31 minutes ago, AgarwaenME said: Ye, I just wonder how it works in terms of total player base, ie how many actual battles. Do they even show the count of logged in players anywhere now? Given that this is % of total amount of battles it clearly doesn't compensate for population differences. E.g. if the total amount of players went down but the amount of CV players stayed the same, that'd show an increase in the share of CV battles played. I'm sure wondering why they're not simply displaying the actual player numbers. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BBMM] BLUB__BLUB [BBMM] Players 8,818 posts 17,194 battles Report post #1043 Posted May 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said: I'm sure wondering why they're not simply displaying the actual player numbers. Shame, most likely... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[XTREM] Miragetank90 Players 2,626 posts 18,696 battles Report post #1044 Posted May 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, El2aZeR said: I'm sure wondering why they're not simply displaying the actual player numbers. I guess on a line graph like that one it's just easier to represent them as percentages relative to each other. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[HAKUY] Yosha_AtaIante Players 8,032 posts 19,168 battles Report post #1045 Posted May 7, 2020 By the way this just happened https://clips.twitch.tv/AgitatedCrypticTruffleCopyThis Apparently Flamu doesn't know about El2a for one or two reasons and accuses El2a of DEFENDING CVs. It might be that he is trolling however... never can be sure. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CptBarney Players 8,127 posts 245 battles Report post #1046 Posted May 7, 2020 @El2aZeR See the above. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CptBarney Players 8,127 posts 245 battles Report post #1047 Posted May 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, Yoshanai said: By the way this just happened https://clips.twitch.tv/AgitatedCrypticTruffleCopyThis Apparently Flamu doesn't know about El2a for one or two reasons and accuses El2a of DEFENDING CVs. It might be that he is trolling however... never can be sure. Also eewww, we got exposed to twitch as well :/ I dont think flamu actually cares since he hasn't even bothered to touch CV's in general. He is extremely vocal against CV's, just wish he would upload some moar guides on playing ships (SOME) examples being charles martel, zara, queen elizabeth etc. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OVanBruce Alpha Tester 2,543 posts 16,031 battles Report post #1048 Posted May 7, 2020 Flamu never liked CVs, never even tried to understand how they work and how they interact with the game. His gameplay with CVs (on RTS) was decent but not anywhere further than a player that actually knew the basics. But he's got his audience, he's got his fame and influence so now that CVs are badly balanced he gets out of his way everytime he can to crap on CVs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[MAMA] ToximusPrime Players 84 posts 8,196 battles Report post #1049 Posted May 7, 2020 https://clips.twitch.tv/NaiveEvilLemurM4xHeh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TORAZ] El2aZeR Beta Tester 15,786 posts 26,801 battles Report post #1050 Posted May 7, 2020 36 minutes ago, Yoshanai said: https://clips.twitch.tv/AgitatedCrypticTruffleCopyThis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
