General CV related discussions.

[Pukovnik7]

19 hours ago, The_Angry_Admiral said:

I got a link referencing ship to ship spotting with a mention of aircraft which is probably in reference to the consumables. 

 

I'm asking for the dev or game mechanics quote for CV airplanes because there have been several times where I have flown over and not spotted a DD. So either there is a game bug that I need to request a ticket for in player support or there is more to the overall mechanics of spotting and concealment when dealing with CV planes. 

You do understand what a concealment distance is? If a DD specs for stealth, then yes, you can almost fly over a DD and not spot him. But that still forces destroyer out of position, to turn to avoid the aircraft.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

21 hours ago, The_Angry_Admiral said:

I got a link referencing ship to ship spotting with a mention of aircraft which is probably in reference to the consumables. 

 

I'm asking for the dev or game mechanics quote for CV airplanes because there have been several times where I have flown over and not spotted a DD. So either there is a game bug that I need to request a ticket for in player support or there is more to the overall mechanics of spotting and concealment when dealing with CV planes. 

It is interesting you keep making that claim. We suggest it is because you did not enter it's air detection range of about 2,5 km, which by the way is really absurdly short for a 100 m long ship on open sea, but there you have it: Lesta gamedesign at it's finest.

 

Since everyone here except you understands there is nothing more to the overall mechanics of spotting and concealment when dealing with CV planes then air detection ranges and visual cover like smoke or islands, and you seem 100% entrenched in not making a miscalculation, we might want to assume your claim is the result of a bug. So, ask tech support.

 

In that case, if you are looking to file a bug report, you will be asked to accompany your report with reproducable content. If not, it will be dismissed as per your own rebut: failed to produce 'evidence'. Your report won't even be considered for escalation if you can't support your claim.

 

So, when you do this, produce that evidence to support your claim that you can fly your carrier planes directly over a visually unblocked DD and not spot it, come back here and show us as well will you? What I'm interested in is: How do you determine the exact location of a DD that you are not spotting to confirm you are flying right on top of them?

 

Anyway, good luck producing that evidence for support. As I already suggested, setting up a training room and flying over inert bots should reproduce what you claim is happening. Or get someone to join you and sit in a DD for you to spot. That way the person will be able to confirm if you are flying in its air detection range, or not. Should be easy. Just keep trying until you can reproduce. ^^

[Nibenay78]

@Europizza

 

Proof is overrated. He FEELS it's clearly a bug! He is allowed to his opinion without you asking for proof!!! whine!!!

[Deckeru_Maiku]

On 11/26/2021 at 3:03 PM, SnipingCat said:

Several messages have been removed (And probably not all of them) For being baiting, and otherwise completely unconstructive. Please return to your usual behavior of debating, loving, hating (<3) CV's

You missed at least half a dozen troll posts... and there are new ones...

[Nibenay78]

36 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

You missed at least half a dozen troll posts... and there are new ones...

And most of them from some Admiral...

[Hirohito]

Ignoring whether or not CVs are OP for a moment, I just think they are fundamentally unfun to play.

There's nothing interesting in the actual mechanics, just fly over, drop your ordnance when you can, and repeat.

Terribly unfun and unengaging.

Would have loved for manual AA control and the ability to actually maneuver planes through player controlled AA (with altitude adjustments for instance), but with wargaming being wargaming, we're getting a very dumbed down arcade game.

If war thunder proves to do better for sea+air warfare (like it is already miles ahead in tank warfare, unlike that awful WOT game) I might just switch permanently to that game at some point.

 

The old system was aids as well with the devstrike capabilities that CVs had, but playing them was a lot of fun.

I used to play a lot of RTS so the old system hit home instantly.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

36 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

Ignoring whether or not CVs are OP for a moment, I just think they are fundamentally unfun to play.

There's nothing interesting in the actual mechanics, just fly over, drop your ordnance when you can, and repeat.

Terribly unfun and unengaging.

Would have loved for manual AA control and the ability to actually maneuver planes through player controlled AA (with altitude adjustments for instance), but with wargaming being wargaming, we're getting a very dumbed down arcade game.

If war thunder proves to do better for sea+air warfare (like it is already miles ahead in tank warfare, unlike that awful WOT game) I might just switch permanently to that game at some point.

 

The old system was aids as well with the devstrike capabilities that CVs had, but playing them was a lot of fun.

I used to play a lot of RTS so the old system hit home instantly.

Very much this. It's even worse with the Russian carriers, because as soon as you pressed the fire button you press F and immediately are back at the ship hull view and can launch the next squadron even before the automated attack hits the target. These carriers usually don't even see their ordinance hit, it's bizarre how disconnected these ships are from pvp. The worst pvp class I have ever seen released in any game. 

[SV_Kompresor]

37 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

Ignoring whether or not CVs are OP for a moment, I just think they are fundamentally unfun to play.

There's nothing interesting in the actual mechanics, just fly over, drop your ordnance when you can, and repeat.

Terribly unfun and unengaging.

Would have loved for manual AA control and the ability to actually maneuver planes through player controlled AA (with altitude adjustments for instance), but with wargaming being wargaming, we're getting a very dumbed down arcade game.

If war thunder proves to do better for sea+air warfare (like it is already miles ahead in tank warfare, unlike that awful WOT game) I might just switch permanently to that game at some point.

 

The old system was aids as well with the devstrike capabilities that CVs had, but playing them was a lot of fun.

I used to play a lot of RTS so the old system hit home instantly.

Fun is subjective. You can't use that as an argument.

 

Or at the very least use "imo" or "for me".

[Hirohito]

Just now, SV_Kompresor said:

Fun is subjective. You can't use that as an argument.

My argument is that I find CVs unfun. How is my subjective feeling irrelevant to my subjective feeling?

[SV_Kompresor]

1 minute ago, Hirohito said:

My argument is that I find CVs unfun. How is my subjective feeling irrelevant to my subjective feeling?

Nevermind....you did say "I think" somwhere in there.....my bad, I missed it.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

2 hours ago, SV_Kompresor said:

Fun is subjective. You can't use that as an argument.

 

Or at the very least use "imo" or "for me".

Ofc it is subjective, but that does not nullify the argument. It is a perfectly fine argument made by a consumer on a end user forum of an entertainment product.

 

Carriers can be fun in very specific ways: being able to grief for the full length of a match, being able to attack without being in danger of being sent to port, beating defenseless targets senseless very slowly (sadism can be fun to people, even the righteous ones every now and then), getting easy kills shooting low HP targets with the rockets point blank etc. There are lots of traits to like about carriers for certain types of players and playstyles.

 

But in general, carriers are unfun to play and play against. The low 4% popularity rate and the 1000's of pages full of complaints on this forum are a testament to that ^^

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Europizza said:

sadism can be fun to people, even the righteous ones every now and then

There you go, you have explained the whole rework... 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

14 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

There you go, you have explained the whole rework... 

Except sadism is usually applied in singleplayer or coop games against bots that have no soul, not in wonkey trash pvp design. Becasue when you do the pvp becomes wonkey and trash. ^^

[Yosha_AtaIante]

2 hours ago, Europizza said:

Except sadism is usually applied in singleplayer or coop games against bots that have no soul, not in wonkey trash pvp design. Becasue when you do the pvp becomes wonkey and trash. ^^

sadism against soulless beings is wasted effort though :( Gotta imprint pain unto real souls

[Nik_K]

It's funny that each time has 1 or 2 CVs tops yet everyone whines about them....Meanwhile DDs can launch 20km torpedoes and blindly hit or even destroy ships and noone bats an eye (and i have countless hours with DDs).

This is the same as the saying "not addressing the elephant in the room", CVs have been nerfed again and again and again, to a point where i seriously doubt the sanity of the developing team.

 

Right now we have the following (and i may be forgetting some things):

Detection Distance: Indeed, you sometimes need to be less than 2km away from a DD and 4km away from a Cruiser to spot them.....And as everyone is aware in 2km you can't turn because the aircraft in WOW physics can turn slower than even BBs....
AA: Some Cruisers have AA that surpasses 6km whereas some DDs have mini guns instead of AA, that translates to YOU CAN'T GET CLOSE. Seriously now, torpedo bombers are the only ones that can get close and even that means you probably lost the entire squadron in the process.
Torpedoes: It's simply ridiculous that DD torpedoes arm immediately whereas aerial ones need time. On top of that aerial torpedo speed is a joke, even maxed out in both CV and captain certs most if not all DDs can cruise faster (funny to drop torps behind a DD and see it outrun them).
Rockets: The new system is daft, plain and simple. Not only do you now need to GUESS the exact course of a DD but they can easily turn to avoid that.
Bombs: It should be that the moment you press fire your airplanes are impervious to damage, yet that's not the case. So by the time you press the button and your bombers can aim and drop the bombs they get destroyed. Damage is also an issue, you can get 10k+ on BBs and Cruisers but for DDs...Wait for it....Not even 1k...Somehow bombs in this game do almost no damage even though it's very hard to hit a DD with them.
Submarines: CV's have NO counter to Submarines and that's another ridiculous thing on its face. Right now we have submarine players who only target CVs. They get as low underwater as they can, emerge on the other side and voila! So basically CVs need escorts at all times something which rarely ever happens in this game.

So again, i seriously question the sanity of WG devs at this point. If you don't want carriers in the game remove them entirely, if you do however fix them regardless of whining. I play all classes (easy to see in my profile) but CVs are the most frustrating class to play and i think most players agree on that (at least they say so in the game).

Cheers!

[Yosha_AtaIante]

4 minutes ago, Nik_K said:

(at least they say so in the game).

i think they are saying "the most frustrating class to play against"

 

I mean.. CV is quite fun to play. Check my stats for example.

It's a matter of skillgap not being fixed its why they are frustrating to you to play because your success in them is very limited

[Nik_K]

10 minutes ago, Yosha_nai said:

i think they are saying "the most frustrating class to play against"

 

I mean.. CV is quite fun to play. Check my stats for example.

It's a matter of skillgap not being fixed its why they are frustrating to you to play because your success in them is very limited

no, they are saying they know how crappy they are right now, trust me, i understand English.
As for the rest well not everyone can play countless hours per day so not everyone can become an Ace player. Been playing since 2015 and i have less than 1700 battles in my roster. You have less than 13.700 battles in your Roster since what, 2018? (out of curiosity i did the math, even if you were playing WOW for 4 FULL years - you are not , this year is not over yet and you didn't start in January 2018 - you'd have to play 10 battles per day to achieve that number)
Get my point? People have lives outside this game too (and unless WG markets this game to people who don't i don't see how your argument has any basis).
Any game should be balanced for ALL players, period.

[Bear__Necessities]

13 minutes ago, Nik_K said:

them....Meanwhile DDs can launch 20km torpedoes and blindly hit or even destroy ships and noone bats an eye

The fact the unicum DD torp rate hit percentage is a whopping 10% says that torps really are not that big a threat on the overall picture. The fact that my 2 T10 subs have a 28% torp hit rate... Now that worries me.

 

16 minutes ago, Nik_K said:

CVs are the most frustrating class to play and i think most players agree on that

Gonna have to disagree. In fact I took out my T10 CV's for a spin after a long time being port queens. While I may have been lumbered with potato teams and didn't win as much as normal. I wrecked face on teams. Nothing like dropping 15k DB strikes on a Khaba 1st thing to get a laugh followed up by 15k on a Napoli right after....

 

[Nik_K]

1 minute ago, Bear__Necessities said:

The fact the unicum DD torp rate hit percentage is a whopping 10% says that torps really are not that big a threat on the overall picture. The fact that my 2 T10 subs have a 28% torp hit rate... Now that worries me.

 

Gonna have to disagree. In fact I took out my T10 CV's for a spin after a long time being port queens. While I may have been lumbered with potato teams and didn't win as much as normal. I wrecked face on teams. Nothing like dropping 15k DB strikes on a Khaba 1st thing to get a laugh followed up by 15k on a Napoli right after....

 

You do realize that not everyone has a tier X CV? Even so try getting close to 2-3 ships next to each other and notify me of the result.
And again, saying that CVs are playable only by people who have over 10k battles (like if that number is somehow easily achieved) is silly, why should all other classes be playable from battle 1 and CVs need thousands?
And again some of the thing i mentioned have nothing to do with number of battles, most of you are referring to attacking stranded ships which is a hole different thing and doesn't happen a lot, especially in small maps.
Please answer to each of my issues individually and tell me how they have anything to do with experience.

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 hours ago, Europizza said:

Except sadism is usually applied in singleplayer or coop games against bots that have no soul, not in wonkey trash pvp design. Becasue when you do the pvp becomes wonkey and trash. ^^

Nah. it is no fun if there is no real suffering... 

Something like, the blow-up doll situation. Yes they'll leak but they do not really scream. 

 

1 hour ago, Yosha_nai said:

sadism against soulless beings is wasted effort though :( Gotta imprint pain unto real souls

This indeed 

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, Nik_K said:

As for the rest well not everyone can play countless hours per day so not everyone can become an Ace player.

 

Have you ever considered that if you are unwilling to put effort into anything, you simply don't deserve to succeed?

Literally everything you listed is an issue with yourself, not an issue with CVs.

[Bear__Necessities]

2 hours ago, Nik_K said:

You do realize that not everyone has a tier X

That's neither here or there....

 

2 hours ago, Nik_K said:

why should all other classes be playable from battle 1 and CVs need thousands?

I was hitting uncium CV numbers post rework in 0.8.5 after just 100 games. Across T6/8 at that point. So they ARE an easy to learn class. So are subs incidentally 

2 hours ago, Nik_K said:

Please answer to each of my issues individually and tell me how they have anything to do with experience.

 

and what makes your experiences more valid than others for the record... Why should someone who hasn't been willing to put in more effort than others be able to dare question their opinion in such a dismissive manner? 

 

why does game amount played suddendly equal to having lesser life? Because that's what You Are insinuating. 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

3 hours ago, Nik_K said:

It's funny that each time has 1 or 2 CVs tops yet everyone whines about them....Meanwhile DDs can launch 20km torpedoes and blindly hit or even destroy ships and noone bats an eye (and i have countless hours with DDs).

This is the same as the saying "not addressing the elephant in the room", CVs have been nerfed again and again and again, to a point where i seriously doubt the sanity of the developing team.

What is funny is that the elephant in the room has been sitting in the porcelain cabinet for years now, and a giraffe just entered the room to see if we can fit it inthere too ^^

What's funny is when comparing the pinned 1000+ pages carrier complaints pages and the pinned DD complaint thread, o wait. There isn't one. Yes we are at 1000 pages long already when combined with the previous 2. 

What is funny is only starting to doubt the development team after the countless necessary nerfs to carriers which made them even more boring to play, and not seriously doubting their sanity releasing that crap intop the game 3 years ago in the first place ^^

3 hours ago, Yosha_nai said:

i think they are saying "the most frustrating class to play against"

 

I mean.. CV is quite fun to play. Check my stats for example.

It's a matter of skillgap not being fixed its why they are frustrating to you to play because your success in them is very limited

Actually no. I'm saying carriers are not fun to play as well. I'm decent in them, I find playing them repetetive, shallow and spammy. Because their gameplay is repetetive, shallow and spammy by design.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

3 hours ago, Yosha_nai said:

sadism against soulless beings is wasted effort though :( Gotta imprint pain unto real souls

Feigning an internet gangsta persona still I see ^^

 

Sadism against bots is good gamedesign, it is what all singleplayer and coop design is about: mass murder onto hordes of cartoony characters. Designing sadism against human players in pvp is a sign of poor taste.

 

@BLUB_BLUB, if Gasha_nai can't pull it off, you certainly cant ^^

[Yosha_AtaIante]

25 minutes ago, Europizza said:

Feigning an internet gangsta persona still I see ^^

 

Sadism against bots is good gamedesign, it is what all singleplayer and coop design is about: mass murder onto hordes of cartoony characters. Designing sadism against human players in pvp is a sign of poor taste.

 

@BLUB_BLUB, if Gasha_nai can't pull it off, you certainly cant ^^

You are so mean :(